Except for the fact that Raiden's VR is supposed to be the closet to the real thing("indistinguishable from the real thing" " "far more effective then live combat"). I.E realistic.
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What's wrong with MGS: Twin Snakes?
- Thread starter Corpsepyre
- Start date
Really seems like people that say shit like this actually don't have anything of value to say.
It was an unexpected effect, that Naomi didn't know about.
Nanomachines + that anti freezing peptide, son.
The increased mobility also caused the faster aging.
KittenMaster
Member
The Twin Snakes cutscenes are ridiculous in a poorly done way. It comes off as random and a forceful attempt to "improve" upon a tone the original direction the cutscenes had taken, but more importantly the stunts and super human acrobatics are just not very well done and are a cheap way to add excitement to the scenes.
MGS4 is a good place to look if you want cool, over the top choreography done well in a grounded MGS setting. Metal Gear Rising is the place to look if you want pure insanity in a setting and tone where it belongs.
MGS4 is a good place to look if you want cool, over the top choreography done well in a grounded MGS setting. Metal Gear Rising is the place to look if you want pure insanity in a setting and tone where it belongs.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
Yeah it was hyperbole on my part, but hearing stuff about it being the best in the series is ridiculously suspect. If twin snakes is the best of metal gear, I don't think they like metal gear.
I think objectively, some of the voice performances were better in the original compared to the (higher audio quality) NGC version. I think stylistically the re-choreographed scenes feel overdone, even in a series known for its excess. That part is more open to interpretation though.
Otherwise it's fine. Parts of my preference for the PSX version come from having experienced the original before the reformulated one. It made most changes feel arbitrary or labored, but that much is partly subjective. I do think an outsider would notice the reactionary influence of things like the Matrix films on Twin Snakes.
Otherwise it's fine. Parts of my preference for the PSX version come from having experienced the original before the reformulated one. It made most changes feel arbitrary or labored, but that much is partly subjective. I do think an outsider would notice the reactionary influence of things like the Matrix films on Twin Snakes.
Charlouie Jonesman
Banned
Here's one thing I wanna know. TTS is english only, like, even the japanese release has the english VA with japanese subs...so how come the lip sync in this game is so terrible?
The disconnect angle comes from how Solid Snake in Twin Snakes CAN NEVER DO THAT SHIT IN GAMEPLAY OR REAL TIME. You know those goofy and insane as fuck cutscenes from Devil May Cry 3 or Bayonetta? YOU DO THAT SHIT IN REAL TIME. If Solid Snake can do flips, cartwheels, hoola hoops and handstands, why in the fuck can't he do that outside of cutscenes? Why is the mobility and skill set limited during gameplay when in the Twin Snakes storyline he's doing magnificent flips?
"Heh its a videogame bruh, cutscenes are just like that"
No they are fucking not. In MGS1 Solid Snake is a well trained soldier that gets by due to skill and luck, the cutscenes portray him this way, the codec conversations portray him this way, THE GAMEPLAY PORTRAYS HIM IN THIS WAY. Of all the issues I have with MGS4, and I have plenty, this botching was never part of MGS4. This shit has only happened in Twin Snakes.
"Heh its a videogame bruh, cutscenes are just like that"
No they are fucking not. In MGS1 Solid Snake is a well trained soldier that gets by due to skill and luck, the cutscenes portray him this way, the codec conversations portray him this way, THE GAMEPLAY PORTRAYS HIM IN THIS WAY. Of all the issues I have with MGS4, and I have plenty, this botching was never part of MGS4. This shit has only happened in Twin Snakes.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Nothing. It's far better than the original and MGS2.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Foxdie doesn't give people superpowers.
If Solid Snake was built like MGS4 Raiden then yea, I guess the insane shit he pulled off in TTS would be passable. But just because you have fantastical shit in the MGS universe it doesn't mean you can just uproot any semblance of suspension of disbelief to have the main character act like a superhero.
The original Solid Snake was very much grounded in reality, in TTS he was not.
Seriously? I'm not saying every guard is out of easy reach but for the most part you have to get into position and take into consideration other guard's locations. I'll compare to some of the earlier levels of MGS. I'm going from memory but I'm pretty sure these were guards routines on normal.
Strut B: Guard outside is indeed easy, probably there more for realistic patrol routes. Inside the transformer room is trickier with two levels and the transformers themselves letting you see the guard but not easily take him out.
Heliport: Walk to right, go into first person, cap every mofo.
Struct C: You still have to get into the room to tranq him, requires very basic timing but you can't just eliminate from get go.
Tanker Hanger: a) coming in from above - go into first person view and tranq every mofo bar the dude in the lower right behind the door to the suppressor (not mandatory to advance). b) coming in from lower vent - tranq 2 guards from inside vent. go out, look up tranq others (once again bar the dude in the suppressor room).
The helipad on strut E? - what? there's containers obscuring the view of them. you have to wait.
B2 of tank hanger - works in the same way as helipad of strut E- actually works with the new controls. the starting area of mgs is also like this and works for most part.
Shell core 1 - yeah it's pretty easy but you have to loop around and time it right - not hard but there is effort involved.
Nuclear Warhead Storage - snipe all enemies from safety of other side of the lowered door when crawling.
Shell 2 core? What, this is pretty strangely designed as a area for the gameplay aspect. this was place i was thinking about when i said higher walls. guards on lower levels can't just be sniped from above.
Nuclear Warhead Storage b1 - run out of elevator, open door, snipey snipey.
As for MGS 3: foliage makes sniping harder, along with not having red dotted weapons and enemies blend more in background at times. Also there is variety with traps, dogs, animals and such to mix it up. It's amazingly well designed at times with how the game compensates for the broken weapon that is the tranq gun.
I should add that I don't mind Twin Snakes as an alternate take of the original (the legend as told by Otacon rather than the reality, as many fans have come to terms with it). The over the top cut scenes are purposefully inaccurate, as confirmed in interviews with Kojima.
It just doesn't replace the original. People new to the series need to get over the crappy graphics and play the original, because it does everything else better than Twin Snakes does.
It just doesn't replace the original. People new to the series need to get over the crappy graphics and play the original, because it does everything else better than Twin Snakes does.
The only thing wrong is the slightly awkward controls. It's hard to point your weapon without shooting in FPS mode.
Right because MGS never breaks the fourth wall. In the original game you are told to look at the game box!
There are lots of stupid over-the-top moments in TTS but from MGS2 onwards the whole tone of the series went off the deep end anyway.
Including everything mentioned before, another scene which I found stupid was this one during the Psycho Mantis fight:
I just found it really stupid when I first saw it and still do. Snake breaking the 4th wall in this way just seems really stupid to me.
Right because MGS never breaks the fourth wall. In the original game you are told to look at the game box!
There are lots of stupid over-the-top moments in TTS but from MGS2 onwards the whole tone of the series went off the deep end anyway.
MGS1 is also:
Easier to get. Tons and tons of used copies on PS1 for like $8+. Can be downloaded on PSN and be played on almost any modern Sony gaming device.
Less expensive. $8+ on amazon for a used copy, $10 on PSN. Used prices on Amazon start at $28 for Twin Snakes.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
Including everything mentioned before, another scene which I found stupid was this one during the Psycho Mantis fight:
I just found it really stupid when I first saw it and still do. Snake breaking the 4th wall in this way just seems really stupid to me.
Ugh, I forgot about that. Man I disliked this game. It felt so forced.
Charlouie Jonesman
Banned
shadowsdarknes
Member
Snake is really mean to Otacon.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
Fortune deflected Ray's missiles after the device was removed from her.
And while not really relevant 2 cut characters Chinaman and Old Boy also had supernatural gifts.
Cobra Unit in MGS3 is swimming in powers. ESP, Fire Ghosts, Photosynthetic Flesh, Bee Control, Super Agility and Speed and 10 million volts of electric body power.
Also MGS already included Raven power man and Psycho Mantis.
Well the whole game box thing, in my opinion is done in a clever way. This is just unnecessary 4th wall breaking.
Uugh... Twin Snakes is crap indeed...
Vamp. I mean, yeah, later we found out it was nanomachines, but at the time he just seemed like a guy who kept dying and coming back to life.
About as bad as the one-lineriatis. That condition where people just seem to be unable to post anymore than one, quick "zing" line with little substance or reasoning behind it.
I loved MGS: TT. It was the first MGS game I finished and fell in love with the series. I recently replayed rhe original PSX version awhile back and finished that too. I can see why PSX peeps have major beef with rhe GC version, due to MGS 2 mechanics bein a game breaker in some boss fights. The GC version is the prettier version to me and holds a special place in my heart for sure.
I think the thing that separates the breaking of the fourth wall in the original with the frequency on the back of the box thing vs the Mantis thing is that the original does it in such a nonchalant, almost casual way; it doesn't make a show of it. It bleds well into how the characters reference buttons you have to push or how Campbell tells you about the controller switching method. There's no like *wink, wink, you're playing a video game*. It becomes part of the game as a whole even if it's self-aware.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
MGS2 is pretty good about not giving the player an easy way out just because they can aim in FPV. Strut D, the most open strut in the game, is easily one of the toughest especially on higher difficulties. There are a few reasons why MGS2 could still be a challenge despite the new first-person shooting mechanic:
- Guards would make periodic calls into HQ.
- Guards now had the ability to notice you even if you were outside their cone of vision.
- You did not automatically have radar in the Big Shell, but had to first find nodes.
- Enemy bodies stay on the ground and do not disappear until either you move them or an alert phase starts and you start killing enough people to the point where the game despawns corpses due to memory issues
- Patrol routes were built with FPV in mind. In Strut E for example it's not always easy to get into a position to headshot the guards, and the closer you get the greater risk you face of getting caught. Strut F practically demands you enter from the top floor so you can shoot enemies down below.
You mention Strut B, but did you know that on higher difficulties that long corridor is replaced with two surveillance cameras while 2 guards are placed in the more tight-knit transformer room? You either need to take out the cameras with a silenced weapon, jam them with a chaff grenade, or traverse through the transformer room.
Strut C long hallway, the Shell 1 Core hallways, and the Bridges are places where long distance shots are the easy way out, but even then Shell 1 Core Hallway is packed with 3 guards and 2 cameras while many of the bridges have ciphers to report downed enemies not to mention trap tiles.
You are right about MGS3 though. You can snipe guards far away and even in tight environments MGS3 does not register your character model as around the corner when you lean so you can abuse that and easily headshot guards around corners without getting spotted even if they appear to be looking right at you.
Vamp (at the time of release), Fortune, and Oceliquid (at the time of release)
That's true but as it's a remake Kojima was always going to add some self-referential content. I think the occasional wink is fine, TTS is more of a tribute to the original game rather than a definitive version.
Nicktendo86
Member
I get the complaints but I still love it.
Right, but I'm just saying I think the metafiction element in one is not much like the other so I don't see them as really all that comparable.
motohellogoto
Neo Member
I love twin snakes and prefer it over the original because of the new graphics and controls but some of the scenes stray too far from the original. Like snake jumping off a rocket. He's solid snake, not superman.
Slackerchan
Member
The only fault I found with Twin Snakes was the voice acting. They had the actors come in and re-record all their lines and I think that was to the game's detriment. Several of the older performances outdid the new ones especially in the case of Naomi. Wherein the original version she had an emotional range that aided in her deceptive nature, she just sounds cold and distant the entire time. It honestly felt as if Jennifer Hale didn't want to be there at all.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
I don't think anyone said that?
345triangle
Member
i think it's a super fun reinterpretation of MGS that shouldn't be considered canonical in terms of storytelling or gameplay. its absurdity is a reason to like it, not to get angry about it on the internet.
Sshhh, I'm straw-manning
SuperAngelo64
Banned
Twin Snakes is fantastic.
If you're someone who hasn't played the series before and want to knock them all out don't even bother with the original.
If you're someone who hasn't played the series before and want to knock them all out don't even bother with the original.
SuperSonic1305
Member
Worse voice acting
Worse cutscenes
Broken gameplay
Doesn't even look as good as MGS2 despite being a Gamecube game
What isn't wrong with it?
Worse cutscenes
Broken gameplay
Doesn't even look as good as MGS2 despite being a Gamecube game
What isn't wrong with it?
SuperAngelo64
Banned
I played the original version after Twin Snakes.
Mei Ling's old voice alone almost ruins the entire game.
petethepanda
Member
I consider it a "cover" more than an port/remaster, but Twin Snakes is fantastic. Some of the updated gameplay changes are welcomed (though it does break certain segments) and the new absurd-as-hell cutscenes are a blast.
Twin Snakes is not bad, and I really appreciate it for what it is. I don't see how it truly bothers anyone. It's not trying to replace the original and it never will because the original is still there and was so groundbreaking. It's just another take on it with some new tools.
That said, I do prefer the original MGS. I'm sure this has been echoed many times in this thread, but the original's style and poise are just so lasting. So perfect for the beginning of MGS. Even if the game has aged a good bit, I'd always recommend playing it first, and then playing the TS later if you're interested. The amount of subtle and not-so-subtle changes the TS brought changed the vibes just enough to take it away from the first one's near perfection in presentation of vision. Besides the limitations of it's time of course.
That said, I do prefer the original MGS. I'm sure this has been echoed many times in this thread, but the original's style and poise are just so lasting. So perfect for the beginning of MGS. Even if the game has aged a good bit, I'd always recommend playing it first, and then playing the TS later if you're interested. The amount of subtle and not-so-subtle changes the TS brought changed the vibes just enough to take it away from the first one's near perfection in presentation of vision. Besides the limitations of it's time of course.
Naked Lunch
Member
Snake jumps around like some asshole out of the matrix. He jump kicks a missile for christs sake. That game is booty.
giancarlo123x
Banned
The only addition I liked a lot was the cutscene of grey fox slaughtering the guys in the hallway. Shit was ruthless.
The main problems I have with Twin Snakes are:
1. Gamecube Z button is pretty terrible. More of a problem with the GC controller than with Twin Snakes, but it does affect my enjoyment of the game.
2. Character models look wrong, especially the faces. Not up to the same standard as MGS2 or 3.
Otherwise I think it's a fun update. The added moves from MGS2 make it easier, but also more enjoyable. The more-ridiculous-than-ever cut scene direction gives it different flavor than the original. It's worth playing.
1. Gamecube Z button is pretty terrible. More of a problem with the GC controller than with Twin Snakes, but it does affect my enjoyment of the game.
2. Character models look wrong, especially the faces. Not up to the same standard as MGS2 or 3.
Otherwise I think it's a fun update. The added moves from MGS2 make it easier, but also more enjoyable. The more-ridiculous-than-ever cut scene direction gives it different flavor than the original. It's worth playing.