Graphics Horse
Member
This is why it's so vague:
I don't know why anyone would want to associate themselves with that attitude.
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Whats wrong with the term "Gamer"?
- Thread starter Pinko Marx
- Start date
This is why it's so vague:
I don't know why anyone would want to associate themselves with that attitude.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
No they aren't. They're helpful short hands for every day conversation. Instead of explaining my job in depth, if something asks what I do for work I tell them "Data Entry". That's just a label that gives a shorter explanation of what I do for work every day.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
People are free to misuse labels however they want. That's their problem. I watch a lot of movies, but I sure wouldn't go around calling myself a "film buff." But I guess I could if i wanted to. Besides, it's been a term equivalent to "film buffs" far longer than it's been used to refer to anyone who plays games.
FF Seraphim
Member
What you call yourself helps define you, but so do your actions you take in life.
I call myself a gamer, but that doesn't define me as a person, just defines a part of me.
I don't think most actual mechanics actually call themselves Gear Heads at all.... we just fix cars, Gear Head sounds kinda silly.
Yes, they care but mostly not in the way cineasts tend to do. You wouldn't see such a level of hate towards people like Sarkeesian among the cineasts/ audiophile crowd. Among gamers... well, you know what happened. Videogames are mostly extremely immature and gamer tend to follow. When people from the "outside" critize, like Sarkeesian/ media etc. the bandwagoning against the invaders start. "Even" on Gaf. The standards are just plain lower, they are on summer blockbuster level.
I don't see anything wrong with the term. Its someone who is into video gaming more than the general public, reads news, discusses it actively etc. etc. "Video gaming enthusiast" would be a longer version.
Personally I'm just sad that it has been associated with the jerks who abuses people online.
Personally I'm just sad that it has been associated with the jerks who abuses people online.
Sakura
Member
Length of time is kind of irrelevant. Sure, it may have been used that way longer. But so what? There are also way way way more people playing games today then there were back then. If the majority of people start using the word gamer to refer to people who enjoy playing games, even if they aren't deep into the culture or knowledgeable about the industry or they don't browse GAF, then it doesn't matter how long people used the word to mean something else. And at some point in time, it will have been used the new way longer any way.
hbkajshdvfbkjhvgkahsgdfka
Member
There's nothing wrong with the term itself. The problem lies with a group of people who consume games that want to solidify "being a gamer" and "gaming culture" into a thing that is strictly defined and will lash out at any idea or entity that doesn't conform to the definition that they've created/adopted/misinterpreted. The mentality that you either conform to these rules or can fuck off you fake/casual """Gamer"""! You're not allowed to casually enjoy games anymore. Your enjoyment of games and how highly you regard them is binary: you either care as much as me or you don't actually care at all!
These people are detrimental to games as both a hobby and an industry. One day we'll get to the point that film and music have gotten to where everybody is confident in themselves and what they like that they stop caring about everyone else's consumption of the medium. We'll still have snobs but like an aged bag of milk the fat and other stuff will separate from the liquid and leave each other alone.
These people are detrimental to games as both a hobby and an industry. One day we'll get to the point that film and music have gotten to where everybody is confident in themselves and what they like that they stop caring about everyone else's consumption of the medium. We'll still have snobs but like an aged bag of milk the fat and other stuff will separate from the liquid and leave each other alone.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Just because there are some people who use it as a judgmental term doesn't mean the term has no worth.
It doesn't change the fact that originally the term was used to identify people who had more interest in video games then your average person. Just as a lot of people own and drive cars, but we have a special word (Gear Heads) for people who are more engrossed in cars then your average person. I'm sure there are some asshole Gear Heads that use the term as some kind of qualifier to put other people down and make themselves feel better about knowing more, but that doesn't mean Gear Head is a totally useless term.
Personally, I don't know why people co-opted the term we already had and used it in a broader sense, and if people want to make up another word to use to replace Gamer as something that means "Video Game Enthusiast" I'd be fine with it, because I'm not really attached to the word itself. But I don't think having a special term for people who have a deeper interest in a hobby then your average person is a bad thing either.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I dislike the mentality, environment and the nature "gamers" like to present themselves as (you even say it yourself). That air of "superiority" just reeks of an ego-stroking.
Honestly, player feels a better word. It's neutral, it's a catch all term, and it lacks the stigma.
Honestly, player feels a better word. It's neutral, it's a catch all term, and it lacks the stigma.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Towards someone like Sarkeesian? Maybe not her agenda specifically but you have to consider two things there. A) The "cinephile" crowd is a much larger one than the gamer crowd, and stupidity gets diluted. B) There is still all kinds of hateful rhetoric and such that gets flung at people from that crwod, even if it's not specifically someone like Sarkeesian.
If we're just going to let the term get coopted, we need a new term.
"Player" sounds like a jerk from the 90s who thinks he's good with the ladies.
staticneuron
Member
Yeah.. but this....
Is not true at all. First of all I have been gaming for a very long time and my friends and I have referred to ourselves as gamers before even reading it in gaming press or seeing a marketer use the term. But I am also a fan of movies, anime, and music. I wouldn't even say I spend most of money on gaming but it is a bit hard when adding up cost of console, new games and any subscriptions I have. But despite my enthusiasm for games I am interested in more than just games. Besides casual gamers certainly aren't excluding everything else just to play games.
That opinion piece also doesn't care to point out how the term has changed over the years and is understood and accepted by more. Anime fans, Comic book collectors, Figure collectors, and many other hobbies were looked down upon before and things have changed but the original stereotypes were negative.
Actually... Player is still pretty used to this day and not just in the 90s lol.
I'm a gamer, I'm a huggy bear, I'm an SMT Fanboy, I'm a player. Who cares titles are titles, people should enjoy their hobby, not worry about some title that others might bestow upon them or want to bestow upon themselves.
What's good playa?
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
I find people who 'game' consistently (MMO or FPS) and deny the term "gamer" or anything that seems the same way to be a bit strange. I know a few people who are like that. They're way too controlling or they just want to show off. It's like they always want to be a head of the other guy. I think there's a lot of slander towards the ""gamer"". It's used far too often to belittle the person. There is a store here in town called "Gamers". They're an independent gaming store. Their slogan has always been, "If you want to get into games, get to GAMERS". I don't use them because they're a picked over store and they seem to exist just to exist. There isn't a lot of life coming from the management. It's basically a small swag store.
I've never quite shared this, but I feel like they sort of just fight the winds sitting there on a corner in the many different parts of town.
While I'm in my upper 20s I see nothing wrong with it, but I do come across some very annoying "finger pointing" and stereotypes. I also find a lot of guys my age using it in different contexts. It gets frustrating because I feel like the joy we have gets used for the wrong reasons.
I've never quite shared this, but I feel like they sort of just fight the winds sitting there on a corner in the many different parts of town.
While I'm in my upper 20s I see nothing wrong with it, but I do come across some very annoying "finger pointing" and stereotypes. I also find a lot of guys my age using it in different contexts. It gets frustrating because I feel like the joy we have gets used for the wrong reasons.
Yes, it has its own stigma and is not going to replace gamer.
snoopeasystreet
Member
I don't like the idea of self identifying based on what I'm interested in. It's like people who wear shirts they got at concerts or whatever, yeah you're probably an alright dude who I'd more than likely get along with, but that 2008 Nickelback tour shirt is starting you off on the wrong foot.
Valjean Lafitte
Banned
Hip-hop kind of ruined the word player though. It's still used as slang to describe a male who is seeing more than one female, e.g. "he's no good for you, he ain't nothin but a player".
There's nothing wrong with what the term should imply - one who both enjoys playing games and is interested in games in general in much the same way a film buff both enjoys watching films and is interested in films in general - sadly however there is plenty wrong with how the term has been co-opted to mean something else which is unsavory and uncomplimentary.
Sadly the sub-culture (or side culture) of an offensive minority who also happen to primarily play games has overtaken the association of the word from those of us representing the greater majority.
Its a shame but hopefully if the issues with said sub-cultures and their effects gets shaken out normal usage can resume.
Sadly the sub-culture (or side culture) of an offensive minority who also happen to primarily play games has overtaken the association of the word from those of us representing the greater majority.
Its a shame but hopefully if the issues with said sub-cultures and their effects gets shaken out normal usage can resume.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
When it's used in the greater majority, it's used for ridicule or the guy gets his hat given back to him at the end of the show. I think when people do talk about the ""gamer"" they want to make it sound as simple as they possibly can or they turn into complete arrogant people and degrade it. I agree, there is nothing wrong with it.
7DollarHagane
Banned
Its a marketing term and I don't like being defined by products I purchase. It also tells me monthing about that persons interests.
Tell me you're a retro game collector, a fps player, a PC gamer, a horror game fan, a dota player, an iOS addict.
Gamer is only useful in a marketing context.
Tell me you're a retro game collector, a fps player, a PC gamer, a horror game fan, a dota player, an iOS addict.
Gamer is only useful in a marketing context.
My 7 year old niece who absolutely adores Minecraft told me she was a "gamer girl."
I thought that was the coolest thing ever.
I didn't think, hey, does she know who Notch is? Or that it's coming to Xbox One... She wore playing games on her sleeve, like a badge of honor and I don't see anything wrong with that.
One day, and most likely already, she'll meet other kids that also play games and they'll talk about them as they will their first album or a recent movie. They'll become fast friends and make recommendations across all media.
And they won't be judged, and that will be awesome.
I thought that was the coolest thing ever.
I didn't think, hey, does she know who Notch is? Or that it's coming to Xbox One... She wore playing games on her sleeve, like a badge of honor and I don't see anything wrong with that.
One day, and most likely already, she'll meet other kids that also play games and they'll talk about them as they will their first album or a recent movie. They'll become fast friends and make recommendations across all media.
And they won't be judged, and that will be awesome.
This is very interesting as someone who is from Sweden.
We don't really have a name for someone who playes videogames. We just play, or not.
No label as far as I know. (correct me if I'm wrong fellow Swede-gaffers)
Seems like there is a urgent need to put labels and categorize people, for whatever reason.
We don't really have a name for someone who playes videogames. We just play, or not.
No label as far as I know. (correct me if I'm wrong fellow Swede-gaffers)
Seems like there is a urgent need to put labels and categorize people, for whatever reason.
7DollarHagane
Banned
Oh yes, besides marketing games writers also use the term to shame their readers into following their opinions. What a lovely term.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Most people are involved with multiple aspects and types of games. The whole reason we have words like "Gamer" is so we don't have to keep listing off every single type of video game we like. It's purposely vague because it's supposed to be a quick catch all.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Well if you use "video game player" you wouldn't have that trouble
viveks86
Gold Member
I play a lot of games, but i'm not a gamer. I love watching movies but I'm not a film buff. I spend so much time on gaf, but I'm not a gaffer. My nationality is India, but I'm not indian. I have masculine traits, but i'm not male. I'm just an amorphous blob that can't handle simple labels because the world around me tends to judge me since they have nothing better to do.
Oh shit! Now people are going to label me an amorphous blob! Noooooooooo!
Stupid pseudo-intellectual article is stupid
Oh shit! Now people are going to label me an amorphous blob! Noooooooooo!
Stupid pseudo-intellectual article is stupid
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
It's none of my business, but I could tell you that there are men and women who tell their kids that they are "never going to be gamers" or that they aren't going to be "addicts". I know for a fact that we get treated as if we were this "addict". There's a huge difference between enjoying a game and not being able to stop too.
The agenda is the point. Cineasts fight for better representation, gamers? Way less likely.
RustyNails
Member
When I talk about "games" or "gamers", my parents think it's this guy:
It's really hard to shake off that image for them, as they grew up a long time before games were even a thing outside of hardcore hobbyists. Then the 90's happened and the age of 90's television seared the images of "radical gamer kidz" in their minds, and it's hard to shake it off I guess. Anyone else in the same boat?
It's really hard to shake off that image for them, as they grew up a long time before games were even a thing outside of hardcore hobbyists. Then the 90's happened and the age of 90's television seared the images of "radical gamer kidz" in their minds, and it's hard to shake it off I guess. Anyone else in the same boat?
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
A dog robbed of his future
viveks86
Gold Member
Well if you use "video game player" you wouldn't have that trouble
Yes. Like my bluray player that has a mind of its own
staticneuron
Member
I have never heard anyone say that in person. If you have, then the issue isn't with them playing games, I assure you. That attitude should leak out no matter what hobby they choose to partake in.
Truth of the matter.
You do realize that you are saying that you take issue with the way "insert self description here" present themselves and not the word itself. So if the obnoxious people you take issue with use a different word to describe themselves would it make everything better?
I would like to for people to come up with some reasoning for this. It is like calling Otaku a marketing term. The fans used a word to describe themselves first, then it was picked up by marketing, not the other way around.
Marketers did not create the terms but they certainly used it to describe the people they were selling the products to. back when everyone called themselves gamers, nobody really talked about "casuals" You were either a gamer and a very select few called themselves hardcore gamers. The people that defined themselves as hardcore used it to explain their dedication. Marketing started using hardcore (whales) and casual to describe purchasing habits and playstyles.
There is nothing wrong with the term just people need to stop using it as catch all phrase to describe the worst elements of our community. Just like gun toting gangsters do not make up the entirety rappers or fans of the genre, Just like comic geeks (now i remember why this seems so familiar) aren't all defined by the bad behavior that goes down at some comicons, just like not all otaku are hikikomori's, so on and so forth.
The change is never within the term itself or even the select few bad apples. It is how it is being used, and I am going to point that finger squarely at the gaming press. Changing the term will not change the people they have issue with. It will not destroy the community they created nor their bad behavior. All it does is serve to annoy people who don't partake in this behavior. It makes them somehow fall under the same umbrella simply because of "how" some gaming journalist (I use the term loosely) are choosing to attack the term because they do not have specific names to bring to light.
SkeptiMism
Member
I just read that article, and I must say it seemed quite shortsighted. It'd seem to me that the author is just so fixed on the idea that the word gamer refers to only this stereotype fat gamer who just dwells in his lair playing games all the time doing nothing else, and because he's so fixed on that idea he can't see the wood from trees. Sure, some people might have that idea, but there's absolutely no reason why it would have to be like that in reality. I also don't think that majority of people would think of such a stereotype when faced with the word.
He also contradicts himself. He starts out by saying how there are various terms for enthusiasts of different hobbies, including gamer for gamers (and for some reason he ignores others, such as simply a "video game fan"), but then at the end he goes on about how you shouldn't describe yourself as someone who plays games (but apparently identifying yourself as an enthusiasts of another hobby is fine?).
He also doesn't really explain his idea that the term gamer is all exclusive. Why on earth would it be all exclusive? Just as people use different terms to describe their enthusiasm on different hobbies without being all exclusive about it, the term gamer isn't all exclusive either. It just simply means that you play games. It doesn't mean you don't do or can't do other things.
If I missed something here, please elaborate. You seem to agree with the author about the term gamer being so all exclusive. Why would you do that? I mean that as a serious question.
GeordieMark
Member
That's completely different.
Lumpy Onion
Member
Seriously. This self loathing and embarrassment over having that title attached to their hobby is silly. If not the label of gamer than what else?
Gamer is kind of a term like redneck. Some people really think its good to be called a gamer/redneck. Those people are idiots. You have the people that make up the majority that don't care. Then you have the people that find a term like gamer/redneck to be disparaging. Those people are idiots.
The Cartographer
Member
I'm just a vidyaman.
It's a term used to qualify or validate a hobby, when people shouldn't feel like they have to do that.
"You play games?"
"Yea, I'm a gamer."
vs
"You play games?"
"Yea."
'Gamer' still has some "hardcore" connotations, like 'film buff' or 'book worm', but it largely feels like a term that labels someone more in a negative way than in a positive way, at least in how it might be used by people outside of core gaming communities.
"You play games?"
"Yea, I'm a gamer."
vs
"You play games?"
"Yea."
'Gamer' still has some "hardcore" connotations, like 'film buff' or 'book worm', but it largely feels like a term that labels someone more in a negative way than in a positive way, at least in how it might be used by people outside of core gaming communities.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
No it's not. When asked on a form what my profession is, I put data entry. I could easily give them a long winded explanation of my every day duties, but Data Entry is quick, easier to understand, and conveys a general sense for something that has a broader meaning. It's a short hand term that gives quick insight to a larger meaning. Which is all labels are.
If that's their hobby, I would guess movie-buffs?
The_Inquisitor
Member
Nothing at all. Don't fucking be ashamed of your hobby.
viveks86
Gold Member
And yet you called them fellow "Swede-gaffers". Oh the irony...
The fact that your language doesn't have a word doesn't matter. Mine doesn't either. There are so many labels in my native language that don't exist in english. Doesn't mean labels shouldn't exist. That's a contradiction to the very purpose of having a language to communicate. Without labels, there is no language. Being fussy about labels says more about the person than the label itself
Zxrophantom
Member
I also don't see the problem and i don't know why people give the word "Gamer" such power. I identify as a gamer in the sense that games and the culture around it are important to me. But i don't really go around introducing myself as a gamer or calling people non-gamers because they never played or beat Mario. It almost never comes up in normal conversations.
Which is way i don't personally see the point of disowning the term. I won't knock someone who does not want to be labeled but i think gaming does a lot of good for many people. I also believe some value gaming as something important in their life, be it to overcome disabilities, depression, or awkward points in life. So i don't see anything wrong with being proud to be apart of the gaming world and we do not need to abandon ship because of some bad apples who will appear in any crowd of people no matter what label is used.
Which is way i don't personally see the point of disowning the term. I won't knock someone who does not want to be labeled but i think gaming does a lot of good for many people. I also believe some value gaming as something important in their life, be it to overcome disabilities, depression, or awkward points in life. So i don't see anything wrong with being proud to be apart of the gaming world and we do not need to abandon ship because of some bad apples who will appear in any crowd of people no matter what label is used.
Yes, the word "gamer" now seems to belong to a special subculture of hardcore gamers especially in the eyes of we, who don't want to be called gamers, and in the eyes of the wider world and media who associates games as a whole with the excesses of the most hardcore gamers and certainly considers the term a negative one.
I want the idea that playing games is something everyone can do and enjoy without being treated like they are special weirdo hobbyists, just like everyone can enjoy a dvd friday night or a visit to the cinema without being branded as being part of some subculture. It's limiting games' audience and it gives credence to the immature image that games has.
I think in time, everyone will have played games at some point in their lives and the stigma of playing games will subside. But only if we stop secluding ourselves in subcultures, and developers continue to explore the medium and create games that have intent and meaning that a sophisticated audience will find interesting.