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When did Atheism become a joke?
- Thread starter Sinfamy
- Start date
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No one knows for sure.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Then you'll get into the whole "agnostic doesn't necessarily mean you are neither theist nor atheist" debate.
I just say I'm not religious. It just gets blank, unoffended stares from all parties. It's great.
Shame.
Pick a side, damnit.
Arrowgigantic
Member
Perfect
You get to wear a big ol' fence hanging off your butt.
Alex_Mexico
Member
I recommend OP to look for a Thunderf00t video on YouTube and he'll know exactly how the stereotype propagated. Just don't watch too many. He's insufferable... and obsessed with Anita Sarkeesian and anything remotely related to feminism.
because it basically says (and correct me if i got it wrong) that as an atheist you should/could just stay quiet or play along and lead a double life to your family and friends if religious matters come up.
Coming from a Muslim family and knowing what it took to "come out" as an Atheist. It's quiet aggravating to hear someone say that Atheists could/should simply hide their atheism in religious households to avoid problems.
i'm glad if it worked for you. But it doesn't work for many other atheists living in religious households that want to live their life without having religion pushed onto them. Christian/Muslim it really doesn't matter.
IdreamofHIME
Member
When Dawkins went off the fringe.
He's the poster boy for Atheism and he's as extreme as a right wing religious nut denying a day couple a marriage license based on "faith".
But he's just a stigma, you have to move through it and be stronger than him. Not all atheists are like him same as not all Muslims are terrorists or Catholic priests pedophiles, but mud sticks and people like to think the worst of things they don't know or understand.
He's the poster boy for Atheism and he's as extreme as a right wing religious nut denying a day couple a marriage license based on "faith".
But he's just a stigma, you have to move through it and be stronger than him. Not all atheists are like him same as not all Muslims are terrorists or Catholic priests pedophiles, but mud sticks and people like to think the worst of things they don't know or understand.
This goes a bit too far, I think. It sounds to me a lot like the double standard where people will perceive gay people doing perfectly ordinary things in public as somehow flaunting their sexuality. There are lots of occasions where it's going to be appropriate for someone to reveal their lack of religious belief, or where religious people ought to be more sensitive to the fact that there are people who don't agree with them present. Just as it's asinine to get mad about a Facebook post asking for prayers in a hard time, it's pretty insensitive to express condolences in a peculiarly religious way to an atheist (e.g. "he's in a better place").
There's a huge gap between going out of your way to push your religious views on other people and acting or speaking in an unguarded way such that sometimes other people can deduce what your religious views are. Like, one can visibly not join others in prayer, and one can reasonably object to a sort of assumption of universal Christianity that shoehorns group prayer into everyday activities. Or someone might just make a joke about being able to sleep in on a Sunday. There are a lot of little ways that religious practice/belief or the lack thereof can come up in conversation, and it's not so much that it's very important to be able to say any particular thing so much as it is that it's important not to have to be careful not to say any of a whole bunch of things (again I think the analogy to homosexuality works pretty well here).
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
Disgusting that the GAFer has his image associated with that label by lazy assholes who strawmen.
Well said.
Huh? What do you mean by this?
No I'm not saying you should live a double life, and no I didn't grow up in a household that held it against me so I don't have that experience. The initial question was is being Atheist in america hard, and that's what I was responding to. Living as an Atheist in a religious household, yes that could be hard but that wasn't the original question.
Risible
Member
It's ironic, as I love Gervais and his comedy generally, but he has in fact played a big part in why I inwardly groan when I hear the word atheist.
It's been said that atheism is not a religion in the same way that "off" is not a TV channel.
Well, atheism became a joke whenever many of the people who turned their TV off started forming clubs about how mentally superior they were for turning off the TV and how everybody else watching TV are delusional sheep.
New Atheism is not particularly helpful and most people engaged in that community can't get over their own smug sense of self-importance.
Well, atheism became a joke whenever many of the people who turned their TV off started forming clubs about how mentally superior they were for turning off the TV and how everybody else watching TV are delusional sheep.
New Atheism is not particularly helpful and most people engaged in that community can't get over their own smug sense of self-importance.
Let me break it down to a very basic level. I had friends that were Catholic. An example of being "openly non-religious" would be my 12-year-old self stating that I didn't understand what it meant to "go to catechism" (which is how they worded it) because I didn't go to church while eating at their dinner table. The topic came up because they asked me about church.
It isn't like I was spewing forth tracts of Nietzsche as a 12-year-old. People are prompted about their religious beliefs all the time in this country, whether they are young or old.
suspenders?
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
You Are Viewtiful
Member
But suspenders are hip... I think?
Well being forced to go to church, being told that you're evil, an abomination and that god will change you through prayer, being told that without god you're morally inferior because you have no morals... Those sort of experiences bring the worst out of you. This is the case with me so far... I will not lie, I have a strong dislike of religions based on life experiences so it's hard not to come off as a jerk/duche to religious folks.
Arrowgigantic
Member
This type of post always makes me laugh. "Those self-important people, they're so beneath me."
SaganIsGOAT
Junior Member
Sam Harris the GOAT
I wasn't aware that Dawkins is running around telling people that they deserve eternal damnation. I also thought that you can ignore Dawkins by simply not clicking on anything that features him, while "right wing religious nuts" are pretty political and in-your-face about pushing their believes on others and above the constitution. Like those who try to outlaw gay marriage, not just simply talk unpleasantly about it.
But saying that both sides are equally shitty is easy and gives one a feeling of considered moderation, so I understand.
flatearthpandas
Member
It's about as much of a joke as any other worldview widely represented on the internet. Internet atheists are just as fucking obnoxious as internet christians. The problem with anything like that is you have a small percentage of intelligent people and then a mass of idiots who were born into the worldview and are intolerant of others and that mass makes everyone look bad.
Sounds like you're just talking about people on the internet. New Atheism's forerunners are people like Harris, Dawkins, Hitchens and Dennet, and they have a lot to bring to the table. Their books go into detail about issues such as challenging the status quo of religion, thinking critically about our roll in creating a fair and just society without the need to rely on dogmas, explaining evolution for the layman, and investigating the nature of consciousness.
Atheism groups in the real world are for creating a community where people are not judged by their lack of belief. Religion is ingrained in many aspects of certain cultures, people's families, and communities. So of course it's only natural for 'clubs' to be formed.
It's not nearly as bad as its reputation.
Of course if you open the comments and scroll all the way down it eventually becomes bad, just like every subreddit in existence.
Remind me, how many people has the extremist Dawkins killed this week? This year?
They're also dicks about it.
I think it's two things:
1. Atheists can act incredibly smug and condescending, because the basis for not believing in religion is so fundamentally obvious to anyone examining it dispassionately, who didn't grow up with a strong emotional connection to it. Nobody likes smug, condescending people.
2. People's belief in religion is more emotionally than rational, i.e., they believe it because it feels good, not because they've examined all possibilities and evidence and determined that there is a significantly reasonable probability of their religion being factually true.
Therefore, when people attack the rational basis of their belief, they respond emotionally - because that's the actual basis for their connection to religion - and shut down rational examination to avoid cognitive dissonance.
Basically, people just don't want to deal with rationally examining their emotionally held beliefs.
1. Atheists can act incredibly smug and condescending, because the basis for not believing in religion is so fundamentally obvious to anyone examining it dispassionately, who didn't grow up with a strong emotional connection to it. Nobody likes smug, condescending people.
2. People's belief in religion is more emotionally than rational, i.e., they believe it because it feels good, not because they've examined all possibilities and evidence and determined that there is a significantly reasonable probability of their religion being factually true.
Therefore, when people attack the rational basis of their belief, they respond emotionally - because that's the actual basis for their connection to religion - and shut down rational examination to avoid cognitive dissonance.
Basically, people just don't want to deal with rationally examining their emotionally held beliefs.
I had people I met recently who audibly groaned when asked about my religion (or lack thereoff) and I answered atheist, followed by "oh, another one".
There is of course the recent trend of the annoying "Internet atheist". A brand of people, mostly young, sometimes old, but obviously usually well-off, who use atheism no just as a concept of non-belief but as a way to elevate themselves against their fellow man. That, with a bunch of false-flaggers since then like /pol/ who exacerbate the stereotype (who sometimes fall completely in it). It ironically created it's own "cult" in itself.
Although I believe it's personally not as widespread as some people on the internet would like us believe, nor is it all that harmful (mostly just extremely grating really. And you can easily ignore them or block them off completely 90% of the time).
The more worrying thing would be that I do think there is a string of anti-intellectualism movement going on, especially in the US, which likes to mock anything that stands out against the norm or tradition (and not only atheism, but also different forms of social movements etc etc...like you know, vegans being mocked and stereotyped, "SJWs", anyone who wants to call out political corruption. We like to pretend that usually the worst cases represent the majority of any of these groups when in reality I would say the contrary.)
There is of course the recent trend of the annoying "Internet atheist". A brand of people, mostly young, sometimes old, but obviously usually well-off, who use atheism no just as a concept of non-belief but as a way to elevate themselves against their fellow man. That, with a bunch of false-flaggers since then like /pol/ who exacerbate the stereotype (who sometimes fall completely in it). It ironically created it's own "cult" in itself.
Although I believe it's personally not as widespread as some people on the internet would like us believe, nor is it all that harmful (mostly just extremely grating really. And you can easily ignore them or block them off completely 90% of the time).
The more worrying thing would be that I do think there is a string of anti-intellectualism movement going on, especially in the US, which likes to mock anything that stands out against the norm or tradition (and not only atheism, but also different forms of social movements etc etc...like you know, vegans being mocked and stereotyped, "SJWs", anyone who wants to call out political corruption. We like to pretend that usually the worst cases represent the majority of any of these groups when in reality I would say the contrary.)
When it was the default subreddit a few years ago it was toxic. Shit I almost became one of them and took a step back and realized that it's mostly just a bunch of white dudes patting their own backs. I realized that despite my lack of faith, I would get along better with the people they were belittling.
Arrowgigantic
Member
On the one hand, subjectively that's possible, on the other hand you might as well be saying that Chumbawumba fans are just as obnoxious as Justin Bieber fans.
Dawkins can be abrasive, yes. And Hitchens didn't pull any punches. But they back up all of their claims with reason and evidence. The other two, Harris and Dennet, are not dicks at all. You may not agree with what they say, but they usually go out of their way to be calm and sincere.
Well, the number of people who report following a certain religion and the way religion is treated culturally are two different things. Spain, for example, has a fair number of people who will self-identify as Catholic but otherwise live a pretty secular lifestyle.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Well atleast on the internet it was when the lack of religion became the religion.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
I'm gonna say around 2009?
Gotdatmoney
Member
Nothing wrong with atheism itself. But its vocal supporters are so fucking annoying. If its a discussion about believing or not believing you can present am opinion that does not come across as condescending. I have the same problem with super religious people. Talk to people like they have different opinions, not stupid wrong opinions. We're talking about a concept that you wont know until you die, like be a little humble.
What does this even mean? What does religion mean to you and how does atheism fall into it?
I strongly agree with this post, particularly with the point in bold. People are very familiar with the concept of a closeted homosexual and the negative effects that can have on an individual. Those same people scoff at the idea that there can be a closeted atheist who constantly has to bite his tongue in a society overwhelmed with religious thought.
Hoho for breakfast
Member
What? I'm "agnostic" (with quotes, as you put it). How does that makes me "the worst"?
witchedwiz
Member
This over and over
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