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[Hilbert]

I think it is important for atheists to speak up. Sometimes it is forgotten that we are here and all around, like when people want to start your children's soccer practice with a prayer and you have to remind them it is not appropriate.

Sometimes it is good to present a bit of perspective on an issue, like when the Pope was addressing Congress, and everyone was excited. I would ask why we want a religious leader to have a direct audience with our lawmakers? That is exactly what we shouldn't want and we wouldn't like it if it were any other religious leader.

When cities want to put up monuments of the ten commandments. When governments try to restrict birth control. Countless examples can be offered up. People need to be reminded that we are here as well and we are just as important a part of the population as anyone else.

If that makes me annoying, edgy, neckbearded, fedora'ed and militant then so be it. But I don't think always being quiet is the right call either.

 

[PeskyToaster]

Did no one take OP to task for comparing fedora wearing neckbeards with the slur "raghead"?

I mean, first of all, it is not a rag or a towel. It is a proper dress, an ethnic attire with significant cultural and historical meaning. It is called a Shemagh, Ghutrah or Keffiyeh, depending on which part of the region you are from. It has tremendous cultural significance and many groups of population have their own way of wearing it. Secondly, raghead is a slur used to dehumanize Arab and Kurdish populations that predominantly wear a head dress, a slur popularized by US forces during gulf war. OP, did you know that not only Arab Muslims but Christians and Jews also wear it? Bet you did not know that.

OP, do you feel victimized?

Isn't this basically illustrating the point of some posters about atheists being an easy and safe target on a socially progressive board like GAF?

 

[RustyNails]

Because that's not the focus of why the thread was made? Just because he used a poor example doesn't mean we should berate the guy, especially when there was no ill intent.

Ignorance is now an excuse to make inconceivably dumb statements? You think we should correct people that make dumbass statements, no?

 

[Pizoxuat]

Growing up atheist in certain regions can definitely be hard. I grew up in Texas. It became known that I was an atheist in elementary school because everyone was doing sleepover+Sunday church parties. The pastor of one of the churches that most of my classmates went to gave a hellfire and brimstone sermon on atheism when one of them asked him what an atheist is. So yeah, things were bad. Real bad.

Sometimes atheists need the anger as a form of emotional protection. People who had it bad, people who lost an abusive form of faith rather than falling out over time. But it shouldn't last forever. Movement atheism shouldn't be defined by that protective anger, but it often is.

I wanted to be part of movement atheism back when I was younger and still angry. I wanted to feel superior because I had been made to feel inferior. There wasn't space in movement atheism for someone like me, though. It was always leering jokes about being a woman outnumbered by single men and how I should be choosing among them or sharing myself between them and making atheist babies. There wasn't room in movement atheism for intersectionality and caring about things in addition to freedom from religion and general skepticism. No room for making common cause with the liberal religious to fight poverty or patriarchy, and a lot of condescension towards those who wanted to do that.

So I don't have anything to do with it anymore, and I want nothing to do with those people anymore. I still want freedom from religion, I am awful annoyed that my kid is coming home from public school with stories about God and Jesus, but I'm not going to participate in a movement that I find spiteful, smug, and ostracizing.

 

[umop_3pisdn]

Sure, but they'd be delusional. It's still faith and not knowledge.

The word gnosis classically refers more to 'felt knowledge' than knowledge in the strict sense (like what we'd talk about when discussing epistemology), and that seems like a more significant concept when talking about stuff like this. Generally people consider themselves theists or atheists because they 'feel' (whether that feeling is acquired by reason or some other means) that one position is true or verisimilitudinous in a meaningful way. Also, that interpretation makes the position of agnosticism actually mean something significant (they either don't 'feel' one way or the other, or they're ambivalent).

Personally I feel in my heart that a creator God that delivers divine mandates almost certainly can't exist, and I didn't arrive there by reason but by intuition, so in that sense I'm 'gnostic'

 

[Tesseract]

since its inception

 

[Trident]

Ignorance is now an excuse to make inconceivably dumb statements? You think we should correct people that make dumbass statements, no?

He wasn't making a statement; he was asking a question. You sort of provided an answer, but also got really angry and starting attacking.

Also, ignorance is probably the most forgivable reason to make a dumb statement, especially when that "statement" is actually a genuine request to alleviate said ignorance.

 

[PsychBat!]

since its inception

 

[Gnome]

Ignorance is now an excuse to make inconceivably dumb statements? You think we should correct people that make dumbass statements, no?

Inform away, but a lack of tact isn't going to get people to listen, if you actually cared about informing instead of insulting that is.

 

[orochi91]

Ignorance is now an excuse to make inconceivably dumb statements? You think we should correct people that make dumbass statements, no?

Lol, good catch, I hadn't even noticed till now.

Calling someone "edgy" is in no way comparable to being called a "rag-head".

Hopefully OP sees what you wrote and is agreeable.

 

[GreatestHits]

God is dead. But he exists. And actually he's alive and kicking. Atheists are just stubborn as fuck. How else could you possibly drive around the city without getting birdshit on your car?

 

[RustyNails]

He wasn't making a statement; he was asking a question. You sort of provided an answer, but also got really angry and starting attacking.

A ridiculous, insensitive and ignorant comparison like that is worthy of getting angry for me.

 

[Sibylus]

Growing up atheist in certain regions can definitely be hard. I grew up in Texas. It became known that I was an atheist in elementary school because everyone was doing sleepover+Sunday church parties. The pastor of one of the churches that most of my classmates went to gave a hellfire and brimstone sermon on atheism when one of them asked him what an atheist is. So yeah, things were bad. Real bad.

Sometimes atheists need the anger as a form of emotional protection. People who had it bad, people who lost an abusive form of faith rather than falling out over time. But it shouldn't last forever. Movement atheism shouldn't be defined by that protective anger, but it often is.

I wanted to be part of movement atheism back when I was younger and still angry. I wanted to feel superior because I had been made to feel inferior. There wasn't space in movement atheism for someone like me, though. It was always leering jokes about being a woman outnumbered by single men and how I should be choosing among them or sharing myself between them and making atheist babies. There wasn't room in movement atheism for intersectionality and caring about things in addition to freedom from religion and general skepticism. No room for making common cause with the liberal religious to fight poverty or patriarchy, and a lot of condescension towards those who wanted to do that.

So I don't have anything to do with it anymore, and I want nothing to do with those people anymore. I still want freedom from religion, I am awful annoyed that my kid is coming home from public school with stories about God and Jesus, but I'm not going to participate in a movement that I find spiteful, smug, and ostracizing.

Heartfelt agreement. That anger served to really fuel my own introspection and self-examination and gave me the space to do it, but it was healthy to move past it. Lack of intersectionality and broader goals definitely turned me off of Gnu Atheism in the end (and atheism movements in general). I will continue to advocate for secular, pluralistic societies, but not on the terms of repellent people.

 

[Agnostic]

Atheism is a joke because death isn't real.

 

[EatinOlives]

Then you also have Thunderf00t who acts like a psychopath in his on going crusade against feminism.

Funny tangentially related thing about that. I keep getting "Recommended" videos of Thunderf00t and similar psycho rant videos on YouTube just because I'm subscribed to Feminist Frequency. Like I'm not even watching anything vaguely related to Gamer Gate, just FF and yet they keep shoving in my face all the "anti" psycho videos. I'm subscribed to a bunch of other shit and I don't see angry-rants-against-this videos getting recommended to me all the time.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Funny tangentially related thing about that. I keep getting "Recommended" videos of Thunderf00t and similar psycho rant videos on YouTube just because I'm subscribed to Feminist Frequency. Like I'm not even watching anything vaguely related to Gamer Gate, just FF and yet they keep shoving in my face all the "anti" psycho videos. I'm subscribed to a bunch of other shit and I don't see angry-rants-against-this videos getting recommended to me all the time.

Might be some function of the algorithm having to do with views and tags. Happens to me too...

 

[| Praxis |]

I'm an atheist, but I'm rarely ever in the situation where it comes up. I lived next door to a vicar who was one of the nicest people I have ever met, he never once brought up his beliefs to me, I never brought up my lack of belief to him. If somebody asks then sure I'll tell them, but I'm not going to go out of my way to bring it up out of context. I find believers and none believers that do this are the most annoying.

I just don't know how anybody could be religious, just from the small amount of knowledge I have about the history of religions and how they have changed throughout human history makes it obvious (to me) that it's a load of rubbish.

People can believe what they want though, who am I to judge? As long as it doesn't impact me or anyone else from doing what they (legally) want.

 

[BocoDragon]

Atheism is a joke because death isn't real.

.

 

[King Tubby]

Funny tangentially related thing about that. I keep getting "Recommended" videos of Thunderf00t and similar psycho rant videos on YouTube just because I'm subscribed to Feminist Frequency. Like I'm not even watching anything vaguely related to Gamer Gate, just FF and yet they keep shoving in my face all the "anti" psycho videos. I'm subscribed to a bunch of other shit and I don't see angry-rants-against-this videos getting recommended to me all the time.

I keep getting horrible shit recommended to me because I like Bill Burr. It happens. I wish there were a way to tell youtube "Don't recommend this shit, please".

I'm an atheist, but I'm rarely ever in the situation where it comes up. I lived next door to a vicar who was one of the nicest people I have ever met, he never once brought up his beliefs to me, I never brought up my lack of belief to him. If somebody asks then sure I'll tell them, but I'm not going to go out of my way to bring it up out of context. I find believers and none believers that do this are the most annoying.

This is me basically. It's still annoying when someone who doesn't know that I'm atheist or agnostic or whatever the fuck you want to call it starts talking shit about secular or irreligious people.

 

[Fusebox]

Agnostic only means you don't have the knowledge. When it comes to god, every person on earth is agnostic whether or not they admit it.

Well that depends on which God you're referring to.

 

[Arrowgigantic]

a) "Uncaring hermit" god is not the only possibility agnostics are open to

Yes, but they're all functionally the same as that, so it's not worth talking about.

b) There's no difference observable in our universe between the all-powerful Judeo-Christian god and a cosmic fart, either; what that has to do with a concept being "self-nullfying" is an article of faith that I'll let you practice, respectfully.

Well, here is one spot where you're wrong. We don't know the origins of the universe, or if it even has one, but we do know that there is no Judeo-Christian god. When I say that agnosticism is self-nullifying it doesn't have anything to do with faith. It has everything to do with saying we can't know if god exists because god existing looks exactly the same to us as god not existing.

The whole point of theism is that god exists. If you're thinking of a way that it's possible but that we just don't know, you're not thinking of a god. You're thinking of something else.

That's a shitty thing to say to a person.

Maybe you should chill out.

Well, telling people to think about what they are like is only shitty if that person is shitty. At worst, he got as much salt as he was spreading around.

 

[PsychBat!]

This is me basically. It's still annoying when someone who doesn't know that I'm atheist or agnostic or whatever the fuck you want to call it starts talking shit about secular or irreligious people.

Keep quiet and swallow their shit! It's the only way people can like you!

 

[HerbertBirdsfoot]

I will continue to advocate for secular, pluralistic societies, but not on the terms of repellent people.

Hey there are some atheists on this thread that are really cool. I don't identify with your difficulties but I share your goal. Thanks for not being stereotypes. 😀

I'm all for people getting along. It's difficult to get along sometimes when people think they have all the answers. Also liberal Christians can be an easygoing lot. Some of us at least. Generally we'd rather just not have the public prayer then to put the spaghetti monster in it though.

 

[Hella Lugosi]

Nihilism is the new hotness

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

I hate the term "militant" atheist. Haven't seen a militant atheist shoot up a crowd or bomb an abortion clinic.

 

[Madness]

Did no one take OP to task for comparing fedora wearing neckbeards with the slur "raghead"?

I mean, first of all, it is not a rag or a towel. It is a proper dress, an ethnic attire with significant cultural and historical meaning. It is called a Shemagh, Ghutrah or Keffiyeh, depending on which part of the region you are from. It has tremendous cultural significance and many groups of population have their own way of wearing it. Secondly, raghead is a slur used to dehumanize Arab and Kurdish populations that predominantly wear a head dress, a slur popularized by US forces during gulf war. OP, did you know that not only Arab Muslims but Christians and Jews also wear it? Bet you did not know that.

OP, do you feel victimized?

No kidding, you won't believe how often raghead or towel head is also now being used against Sikhs in Canada either.

 

[zeemumu]

I don't know. I think it just finally developed its extreme equivalent like any other belief and that group became the joke.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

Did no one take OP to task for comparing fedora wearing neckbeards with the slur "raghead"?

I mean, first of all, it is not a rag or a towel. It is a proper dress, an ethnic attire with significant cultural and historical meaning. It is called a Shemagh, Ghutrah or Keffiyeh, depending on which part of the region you are from. It has tremendous cultural significance and many groups of population have their own way of wearing it. Secondly, raghead is a slur used to dehumanize Arab and Kurdish populations that predominantly wear a head dress, a slur popularized by US forces during gulf war. OP, did you know that not only Arab Muslims but Christians and Jews also wear it? Bet you did not know that.

OP, do you feel victimized?

Regardless of how I and other atheists/agnostics or whatever feel of the shaming and mob mentality that exists in "moderately" to extremely religious cultures (which may or may not include the OP), I do agree that's a bit much. My personal connection does bias me to this because I want to say that OP may feel this way because of the communities that he lives in. Though neckbeard isn't what southern Christians use to insult atheists. It's more like devil worshipers or unbelievers or something equally as dull.

However I would like to point out in his defense that the OP put the slur in quotes which might signify that he does understand that the term is offensive and might even be using to point out stereotypes that most southerners -coughRepublicanscough- can't think further than this. I guess that's just how I read it.

 

[enemy2k]

Atheism isn't a joke, just some of the people who are proponents of it are. Just like everything else in the world, you have bad apples in every community.

 

[Sai-kun]

Did no one take OP to task for comparing fedora wearing neckbeards with the slur "raghead"?

I mean, first of all, it is not a rag or a towel. It is a proper dress, an ethnic attire with significant cultural and historical meaning. It is called a Shemagh, Ghutrah or Keffiyeh, depending on which part of the region you are from. It has tremendous cultural significance and many groups of population have their own way of wearing it. Secondly, raghead is a slur used to dehumanize Arab and Kurdish populations that predominantly wear a head dress, a slur popularized by US forces during gulf war. OP, did you know that not only Arab Muslims but Christians and Jews also wear it? Bet you did not know that.

OP, do you feel victimized?

yasss educate AND drag a bit, rusty.

 

[Foffy]

Your posts are generally quite good, but this one falls very short.

I will say that it is a good example of how easy and how acceptable it is to be bigoted towards atheists. I doubt many people blinked an eye when reading this. Someone can quote a religious text verbatim and be labelled a bigot, but if you just pull shit out of your ass about atheists countless people just nod their heads.

And then, on the flip side, they'll argue vehemently that there is no discrimination against atheists in the US.

Mind you, I am speaking of internet culture regarding this. Atheists tend to act the way I described in a lot of public discussion places online, and I imagine it's largely a channel for venting. Of course it goes back and forth - you'll have people of faith demanding full assimilation to their headcanons - but what arises that makes atheists a joke, at least from what I've seen, is the calling out of one ghost not for good reasons, but almost as an antithesis point of view. You seldom see people disqualify religion by disqualifying the illusion of self, which makes the whole castle crumble, but they instead make moral arguments about a God of love in a world of violence, or even worse use the argument of intellectual superiority. I'm sure most users here have encountered at least one person who called religious people "delusional" or believed in "fairy tales" before. Those are the social meme types that are crazy common; the type who would go on whatever religious video they find on Youtube and call the believers "retards" or something combative. Many also take a high road personally, as if they have the answers and you need to be on their "side." Yet, if we're speaking about reality, there are no sides: there's just what is. And all we can do is call out what is or is not accountable to that.

Do all atheists act in such a way? No. But the ones who carry atheism as a label, as a part of the fictional self as something of pride and potentially an intellectual "weapon" tend to do so. Perhaps the problem is the discourse of the internet, seldom providing grounds for sincere conversation. It's mostly shitflinging. The caricature of one amounts to what I've spoken of, and these are the most vocal cats on the internet. I'm sure many here who are unfaith such as myself aren't like this, but we're also likely the kinds of folk who do not get into the domain of talking to/at religious people in a combative way. I can't even think of a single GAF user who would fit this caricature, either, but common, mainstream perception of an atheist is either some soulless heathen, or a person on a white horse, ready to strike who he deems as idiots. Of course both ideas are ultimately not true...well, maybe the first one is true, at least regarding soul.

Perhaps the problem is we tend to group people totally by symbols and images, so no matter what we do, we're categorizing a type of person as a concept. You see this with how some look at religious people - particularly Muslim, if we're looking at the current political climate - as violent terrorists. That type of one-size-fits-all grouping does nobody any favors, even if the reason such social memes exist is because there's some incredibly small group of fringe people with a very vocal presence that people blindly associate the whole thing with. But that's just another failure from the domain of thought: we have every society that has ever existed to see the problems that creates.

 

[Gnome]

I'm pretty sure the OP put "raghead" in quotes because he knows it's a slur and was asking why people can get away with using "Neckbeard fedora wearers" without the same level of repulsion one would get for using a term like "raghead", as he sees both as slurs. At least that's how I read it.

 

[Fusebox]

I'm pretty sure the OP put "raghead" in quotes because he knows it's a slur and was asking why people can get away with using "Neckbeard fedora wearers" without the same level of repulsion one would get for using a term like "raghead", as he sees both as slurs. At least that's how I read it.

I don't see how it can be read any other way.

 

[Corpekata]

I'm pretty sure the OP put "raghead" in quotes because he knows it's a slur and was asking why people can get away with using "Neckbeard fedora wearers" without the same level of repulsion one would get for using a term like "raghead", as he sees both as slurs. At least that's how I read it.

Everyone knows that.

People are calling him out because it's a terrible comparison.

It's like comparing nigger to cracker. They don't have the same history or context.

 

[Gnome]

Everyone knows that.

People are calling him out because it's a terrible comparison.

It's like comparing nigger to cracker.

All right, that's what I thought, I guess I wasn't as confused as I thought I was. Carry on.

 

[Tesseract]

don't forget there's no free will, and that gobekli tepe is a time capsule of doom

let go of your ego, friends

what is once was and will be again ~ tesseract

 

[User 73706]

Everyone knows that.

People are calling him out because it's a terrible comparison.

It's like comparing hipster to cracker. They don't have the same history or context.

fixed for gaffuracy

 

[The Incarnation]

Was it a joke,? I never knew. And then I saw Fusebox and I was like, yep. Hideous level of arrogance spread out throughout 8 pages. Constantly feeling the need to chirp in. Give it a fucking rest. That's why it's a joke.
Imagine some religious nutter constantly commenting in your ear, nope that's not right, no, you can't think that.

The desperate desire to be seen as being right all the time. Pathetic. Is there anyone else in the thread?

 

[fester]

I know way more religious people who do this than atheists.

I really can't roll my eyes enough at all the God comments on my facebook feed. It's insufferable.

But yes, I'm very good at keeping my atheism to myself. Most of the time.

Seriously. I live with my head down and mouth shut. The only people forcing anything on anyone in my part of the US are the religious (Christians). Hell, I can't even walk five blocks from the train station to my office without having to deal with the "What does the bible really say" barricade and some guy singing terrible gospel songs into a portable PA system.

 

[acrid]

Q: How can you tell when someone is an atheist?

A: Don't worry, they'll tell you.

Not only is that joke funny as hell to me, it's true too.

Also, I saw a quote once that said Ricky Gervais has become the Kirk Cameron of atheists. Again, very funny and true.

 

[Demoskinos]

I dunno... some people like to really be hyper aggressive about their distaste for religion.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Q: How can you tell when someone is an atheist?

A: Don't worry, they'll tell you.

Not only is that joke funny as hell to me, it's true too.

If you go in Southern states or in the Middle East or in Latin America, it's not remotely true.

 

[entremet]

Q: How can you tell when someone is an atheist?

A: Don't worry, they'll tell you.

Not only is that joke funny as hell to me, it's true too.

That's a variation of an old joke. It used to be used for vegetarians.

 

[Bossun]

This will be a post based on a personal experience and perception.

But as a European I don't feel like Atheist vs religious is a thing. At all.

Obviously there are some clashes, ideologically, between religious and non-religious, but the whole atheist movement being elevated to the rank (or put on the same level as) of religion seems mostly to be an American thing (based on Neogaf perception).

At least in France almost nobody defines themselves as "atheist", just not religious people : i.e. I don't give two shits about religion. And I rarely see people claiming to be atheists and trying to bring down religion or acting vehemently against it (obviously there are some people who do but there are really a minority) or taking pride in it, but a reaction to such a pride would be "yeah and? good for you? who cares".

Problems arise when we feel religion is trying to eat away at equality, freedom or the atheist (yet ironically here, atheist is the word we use) foundation of our republic (religious symbols in school ..etc).
Outside of that (gay wedding, head clothings...) religion is mostly a "not a thing" to non religious people and the two groups are quite separated.

As for the neckbeard cliche I don't feel it is a thing in France and Europe, but is it a really a thing outside of the internet even in America?

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

Q: How can you tell when someone is an atheist?

A: Don't worry, they'll tell you.

Not only is that joke funny as hell to me, it's true too.

Also, I saw a quote once that said Ricky Gervais has become the Kirk Cameron of atheists. Again, very funny and true.

Christians pull that shit way more often and then proselytize on top of it.

God just spoke to me and wanted me to tell you have a blessed day.

Ok, shut the fuck up.

 

[Trident]

This will be a post based on a personal experience and perception.

But as a European I don't feel like Atheist vs religious is a thing. At all.

Obviously there are some clashes, ideologically, between religious and non-religious, but the whole atheist movement being elevated to the rank (or put on the same level as) of religion seems mostly to be an American thing (based on Neogaf perception).

At least in France almost nobody defines themselves as "atheist", just not religious people : i.e. I don't give two shits about religion. And I rarely see people claiming to be atheists and trying to bring down religion or acting vehemently against it (obviously there are some people who do but there are really a minority) or taking pride in it, but a reaction to such a pride would be "yeah and? good for you? who cares".

Problems arise when we feel religion is trying to eat away at equality, freedom or the atheist (yet ironically here, atheist is the word we use) foundation of our republic (religious symbols in school ..etc).
Outside of that (gay wedding, head clothings...) religion is mostly a "not a thing" to non religious people and the two groups are quite separated.

As for the neckbeard cliche I don't feel it is a thing in France and Europe, but is it a really a thing outside of the internet even in America?

Religion has a lot of power in American politics and social life, so it makes sense that people would react more strongly to it than in places where it lacks that power.

 

[BocoDragon]

Q: How can you tell when someone is an atheist?

A: Don't worry, they'll tell you.

Not only is that joke funny as hell to me, it's true too.

Also, I saw a quote once that said Ricky Gervais has become the Kirk Cameron of atheists. Again, very funny and true.

Do people really not see how atheists are an invisible group that you can only identify when they make noise about it, so saying "all atheists make noise" is an illusion?

 

[nomis]

Q: How can you tell when someone is an atheist?

A: Don't worry, they'll tell you.

Not only is that joke funny as hell to me, it's true too.

It becomes less and less true the more this bullshit stereotype of the loud-mouthed atheist gets perpetuated with laughter.

Do people really not see how atheists are an invisible group that you can only identify when they make noise about it, so saying "all atheists make noise" is an illusion?

That would require a higher level of perceptiveness than they likely possess.

 

[PsychBat!]

Atheism isn't a joke, just some of the people who are proponents of it are. Just like everything else in the world, you have bad apples in every community.

Nah, every atheist is a neckbeard and an asshole.

Spoiler

/s

 

[cameron]

Q: How can you tell when someone is an atheist?

A: Don't worry, they'll tell you.

Not only is that joke funny as hell to me, it's true too.

Wolf Blitzer pestering a Tornado survivor to "thank the lord". She reveals she is an atheist:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LP3Zs_V_BQ

I wonder how you see this situation.