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[mortal]

Ehmm you people do realize Shenmue was doing this stuff in 1999 on a Dreamcast, right?

Why do you feel the need to see it like that?

Praising the developers that worked on these games isn't intended to be dismissive or deride the accomplishments of other skilled and talented developers.
Game design is still a craft, so I will give praise and credit to anyone doing interesting things in their games, not just the past.

Shoutout to the 90's era Sega AM2 team.

 

[Gojko_of_Rivia]

Probably because GTA is jack of all trades, every single gameplay aspect is solid and well built. Driving, shooting, physics, npc interaction, good writing, world building... all very solid and still unmatched by any other developer. When you put all these things together, you have extraordinary game despite not excelling at anything.

 

[MarlboroRed]

red dead 2 is the new benchmark.

This. And it will remain to be for quite a while.

It comes down to Rockstars acquisition of a specific game animation middleware for GTA IV back in 2007 called Euphoria.



It allows them to calculate ultra realistic physics and motions on NPCs on the fly, and it has subsequently influenced the way Rockstar tends to approach their game design a lot.

Red Dead II would have been an extraordinarily detailed and sophisticated open-world without it, but with Euphoria powering it under the hood it often appears a clear step ahead of anything other publishers and studios are able to deliver.

 

[Allnamestakenlol]

Michael had a lot of potential as a character. A retired criminal getting pulled back into the game would make for an interesting game but they did it wrong. The game was actually quite good until Trevor came in. That Jewelry Store job was actually Rockstar at it's finest and it could have worked with just him and Franklin. A black gangster from the hood and a retired old white criminal could have been an interesting concept.

That would've been too cliche'd, imo. What was needed was a young, but experienced, black transgender taking an old cis male under their wing. But seriously, 'old white man showing young black man the ropes' has been done enough.

Edit: I did like Michael and Franklin's characters, tho, and would have enjoyed a game with just them.

 

[killatopak]

When online was released.

 

[Batiman]

Everyone saying it’s not without saying what is. Not a huge rockstar fan but nothing comes close to them in creating a living open world. Nothing. If there is something I’d like to know.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

in 2013

 

[TTOOLL]

I haven't played GTA5 yet, but I started RDR2 last week and it might be the best game I've ever played on a technical level. Story is looking pretty good, graphics are insane and the music is top notch. I'm still on chapter 2 and I'm in constant awe.

It also made me want to play GTA5, which I'm now sure is pretty good at least.

 

[Astral Dog]

when it was released

 

[Soulblighter31]

It was never a benchmark for open world games because it uses that aspect pretty much worse than anyone. If you're talking about the technical realisation of it, than sure. Excelent. The integration of the open world aspect in the gameplay though ? You're just running from one side of the map to the other, nothing happening in between, wasting time and inflating the gametime. Its the worst use of the space.

Now games like Gothic or Stalker Call of Prypiat - now those are the actual benchmarks for gamedesign in a large area. Stalker in particular has an answer for pretty much every complain you see from people about open world games.

 

[teezzy]

RDR2 > GTA V > Skyrim >>>>> All

Fix'd that 4 u

 

[Woggleman]

Another issue is that it doesn't look lived in. Even the bad neighborhoods look too clean and pristine. The only area that really looks lived in is Sandy Shores.

 

[Balducci30]

Man, seeing all this hate on GTA V, and seeing all the love for GTA IV. When did this switch happen - when GTA IV came out everybody hated on it soooo hardcore - it was almost Cyberpunk level of hate. Now it’s great (it always was btw) just funny to see. But to answer OP - Rockstar always has the benchmark for sandbox open world games.

 

[Woggleman]

Man, seeing all this hate on GTA V, and seeing all the love for GTA IV. When did this switch happen - when GTA IV came out everybody hated on it soooo hardcore - it was almost Cyberpunk level of hate. Now it’s great (it always was btw) just funny to see. But to answer OP - Rockstar always has the benchmark for sandbox open world games.

I always loved GTA IV but when it first came out it was so different from San Andreas that people didn't judge it based on it's own merits. With V out people can look back and see it's strengths.

 

[YCoCg]

Man, seeing all this hate on GTA V, and seeing all the love for GTA IV. When did this switch happen - when GTA IV came out everybody hated on it soooo hardcore - it was almost Cyberpunk level of hate. Now it’s great (it always was btw) just funny to see. But to answer OP - Rockstar always has the benchmark for sandbox open world games.

It's because people compliment it's TECHNICAL achievement, which is still better than GTAV in many places. Yes the game is too serious and the opted to be more grounded and realistic but GTAV swung in the complete opposite direction and became a Michael Bay action game game with a thin plot. Now stuff like plot is subjective but it was clear they made cut backs to the game to accommodate the PS3/360, and they never put these things back with PS4/XB1 and most likely won't put them back for PS5/XBS either.

 

[Woggleman]

GTA V was clearly made to satisfy the people who hated GTA IV and it showed. There is no soul or passion. Most of the strangers and freaks annoyed the hell out of me and that stock market was poorly done. Nobody wants to pay you during the game but if you do the stocks right and save Franklin's assassin missions until the end you can become a billionaire. It was also dumb the way Lester just gave Franklin a house instead of him buying it himself.

 

[JoeDanny]

GTA 5, like almost all of the other GTA titles, became the benchmark because nearly every single system in its sandbox knocks it out of the park. From the physics, car chases, NPC interactions, character movement, to the way the world feels lived in. Rockstar nails it in just about every single aspect, and they combine to make an awesome and cohesive experience where the rules of the game feel grounded in its virtual world. Other open world games fail in some of these core aspects and end up falling short.

Like in Just Cause, I never really care for the world because it just feels like a theme park entertaining me with fun yet flashy effects. Or in Watch Dogs where the physics interactions feel awkward and phoned in when driving cars. Even in Far Cry, which I consider to have an awesome open world sandbox, it's just not satisfying to watch enemies fall to the ground after being shot the way Euphoria physics allow in GTA 4 and 5. Also, Rockstar just have so much fucking money to invest in all of these complex gameplay systems where others dev studios couldn't even hope to reach that level of quality.

 

[DJTHEGREY]

I think GTA brings a more consistent and believable world than most sand boxes. Reason why Cyberpunk should be comparable is because they are both set in cities. I wouldn't compare GTA with something like Elder Scrolls or the Witcher tho because the settings are entirety different.

GTA attention to certain details are what make it stand out. For example Radio stations.... Rather you like the music or not you had to see the major difference between how Cyberpunk did it and GTA does it.

The City layout of Night City is atrocious when it comes to driving. The roads make very little sense and I don't believe much thought was put into it... Traffic lights need not even be in the game. Where as in GTA the roads seem more realistic and NPCs drive a lot better.

GTA will be king of city sandboxes till someone come and take the throne. Closest games to do it is probably Sleeping Dogs Cyberpunk and Saints Row. MHO

 

[Mozzarella]

GTA V may have the better open world, but Cyberbug crushes it as a video game, easily.

 

[mikefrails]

GTA sets the bar with every major release if we're being honest.

 

[Tchu-Espresso]

Inconsequential characters having some kind of routine gives the world so much life. Rockstar nailed it here while Cyberpunk is unfortunately devoid of it.

 

[BaneIsPain]

Rockstar always been a benchmark for open world game.

 

[King_Mandu]

I'm more curious as to why the shooting in Rockstar games has regressed so much from Max Payne 3. Shooting has always been pretty bad, they finally got it right in MP3 then go back to crap in GTA V and RDR2. Less time on looting and skinning animations that waste my time and more on making the shooting better.

 

[Halo is Back]

Rockstar has always set the standard for open world action games

 

[Rickyiez]

When people just wanted to find something to shit on Cyberpunk. If I go back to GTAV after finishing Cyberpunk I would press Alt-F4 in about 10mins. It's just so boring

 

[Danjin44]

Rockstar has always set the standard for open world action games

They make the most detail open world but actual gameplay and mission designs is just not good....at all.

 

[Halo is Back]

They make the most detail open world but actual gameplay and mission designs is just not good....at all.

Combat has always been mediocre but no one else makes a believable, dynamic fun world to play in like Rockstar.

 

[Danjin44]

Combat has always been mediocre but no one else makes a believable, dynamic fun world to play in like Rockstar.

But I don't play games for "immersive simulation" I play for the "gamey" part of the game.

 

[Elektro Demon]

I disagree with you. Trevor is the best character in GTA V. Only leftist snowflakes have a problem with him.
Also gta V is the best gta game in the series. It had the best story imo and production value are through the roof.

 

[Halo is Back]

But I don't play games for "immersive simulation" I play for the "gamey" part of the game.

Ok? Go play something else. Meanwhile, I can have all kinds of dumb fun messing with NPC's in RDR2.

 

[NomadicAsiatic]

When did it stop?

 

[Phil-NeoGAF]

I agree with you OP. GTA V is boring and Trevor is the worst protagonist in gaming history. I never considered it a benchmark for anything.

 

[Nico_D]

R* isn't that good in the "game" part of the "open world games".

 

[Balducci30]

I'm more curious as to why the shooting in Rockstar games has regressed so much from Max Payne 3. Shooting has always been pretty bad, they finally got it right in MP3 then go back to crap in GTA V and RDR2. Less time on looting and skinning animations that waste my time and more on making the shooting better.

Yeah same here it’s weird - I loved RDR2 and basically all rockstar games but they clearly know how to do shooting as evidenced by Max Payne 3. Why don’t they implement this in their open world games

 

[GaviotaGrande]

Open world that consist of the most linear and restrictive mission design in the industry. Benchmark indeed.

 

[eot]

Best game story ever.

Play more games.

 

[Scotty W]

Play more games.

Why ruin good tastebuds on inferior foods?

 

[eot]

Why ruin good tastebuds on inferior foods?

That's what someone who only eats fast food would say.
GTAV isn't exactly a classy experience lol.

 

[Scotty W]

That's what someone who only eats fast food would say.
GTAV isn't exactly a classy experience lol.

Someone who finishes their sentences with ‘lol’ presumes to lecture ME on classy experiences?

 

[Redefine07]

Hope it stays like this , Cyberpuke 1977 dosen't deserve to be the new benchmark an X360 era game rapes it apart in details , game physics and superior holy shit AI compare to it. (RDR 2 is another league).

 

[tassletine]

I have been a long time fan of Rockstar and while GTA V does a lot right it is also in many ways their worst game.

There is a shockingly low number of interiors and even less than GTA IV. You can't even go into a fast food place or a bar or a nightclub.

It has a terrible story and one of the worst protagonists with Trevor. How am I supposed to enjoy playing as a cannibal who rapes other men? I can't believe these are the same people who wrote the RDR games.

That dock working mission might be the most tedious thing I have ever played in a game and one of the missions actually features you do doing yoga with your cheating wife's sidepiece. How is this supposed to be more fun than other games? You can also go to counseling with your annoying wife and kids. That Jewely store robbery though is a masterclass in mission design. I have to give them credit for that.

I just don't get how it became this thing that other open worlds must live up to.

You enjoy it in the same way you enjoy being a sexually obsessed cartoon plumber or some poser with a overly put on gruff voice who smokes a lot and kills people for a living.
Escapism, or just not giving a shit about real life so you can relax.

If the game was trying to make you like these characters (like TLOU2) then I would get your point. But GTA is a satire so these people are supposed to be laughed at not empathised with.
It's about LA and the plastic people who live there. If you've ever been it captures that extremely well.

GTA's level of atmosphere, immersion and dark comedy might not be your thing, but I think when you consider that GTA5 has traffic patterns related to local and time of day, rather than just cars on prefixed routes (Cyberpunk) you may get some idea as to why people think it's the gold standard (not that I agree with that)
I don't like the gameplay in GTA much but it's a stunning achievement and tends to stick with you long after it's gone.

I agree with you on the bloat in the game, but all games have that now and I wish they'd stop. I don't need costumes or sidequests for chess pieces.

 

[The_Mike]

It has a terrible story and one of the worst protagonists with Trevor.

Stopped reading right there. Trevor was the only thing that could get me through gta v. The story is so boring, Michael is an old simp and Franklin is your average gangster wannabe.
Trevor is the most unpredictable guy in the game which for me made him interesting. The dark humour also helped a lot.

 

[tassletine]

Why ruin good tastebuds on inferior foods?

I'm more curious as to why the shooting in Rockstar games has regressed so much from Max Payne 3. Shooting has always been pretty bad, they finally got it right in MP3 then go back to crap in GTA V and RDR2. Less time on looting and skinning animations that waste my time and more on making the shooting better.

I thought GTA 5 was overcooked. A bit too bland and balanced for my tastes. I seriously missed the mayhem and Euphoria engine. Good game though.

RDR2 was a different case. I think they were trying to get you to focus on story and atmosphere rather than gameplay.
Case in point -- Why is hunting animals harder than killing humans? They didn't wan't the flow of the story broken up by getting blocked by a level you couldn't finish. But if you want to go out and hunt there's a challenge there.
If the gunplay was any real challenge then I think that a lot of people wouldn't have finished the game. Westerns also have a tendency to have long drawn out sequences of landscape followed by quick brutal action, so I think it fits and was probably the right choice given the narrative.

 

[Birdo]

Just Cause Series > GTA Series.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

When it was released. Even if it has less stuff for that scale at that time it was big.

 

[Scotty W]

This thread shows just how spoiled “Gamers” are, how disconnected they are from the experience of the other 99 million people who bought the game.

 

[rofif]

That's impressive as fuck even if needless waste since nobody follows npc outside of youtube video.
My fav open world is Gta IV and Fuel. Both games for completely opposite reasons hehe

 

[Woggleman]

In many ways GTA V is a regression from IV. The backlash to that game shows that I think differently than most gamers. Not every game has to be dark and gritty but for a game about the criminal underworld it fits. You are also working with actual criminals instead of getting caught up in some gang war between the FBI and CIA. Rockstar did redeem themselves with RDR2 so hopefully the future is more RDR2 and GTA IV and less GTA V but I doubt it.

 

[Tickle My Tendies]

OP actually had the balls to say Trevor sucked as a character, when in reality, he became an iconic character in video game history whether you like it or not.

GTA V's story was the best because it MADE SENSE in the world of GTA.

The 3-character system was innovative and fresh, and no one was able to do it as well as Rockstar since.

The Map could have done less with the mountains, but it gives the map a much needed visual character to depict how versatile California really is.

I love all of the GTA games and GTA V, including online, is a bonafide masterpiece.

There is a reason why it already sold more than 135 million copies

I nominate this for Reply of the Year. Last second contender for the crown.

 

[Boss Mog]

September 17 2013