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When did it become acceptable for PC games to take over the "My Documents" folder

uncredited male said:
Some older game's saves on the newer OSs are in some amazingly obscure locations.
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A lot of my older games (and some apps I still use) love to just write directly to my C:\ drive and don't really let you change that, which was annoying when I had a very low capacity SSD as my C drive witht he intention it would be purely for my OS.
 
LiQuid! said:
Curious why you couldn't have the game's save data store in the install directory? This seems like a thing that used to be prevalent but that has all but stopped completely.

For the record I am all for having a centralized location for saved games, just either not in the Documents folder (instead in My Games or Game Saves) or allowing me the choice for every game I install (unrealistic?).
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Our game had two different versions on Steam.... and we wanted to make it easy to switch the save file between the two.

Also, because it's in Program Files, there's additional write permissions needed...
 
The worst offender is MGR.

Usually games use "%userprofile%" in the path, but not MGR. So it ends up saving in C:\Users\Me\ blablabla.

I had to reformat my PC and I lost the save data because it wasn't in D:\Users\Me\My Documents or the steam folder like all my other save files. For some reason, the cloud didn't work (0KB used). I was planning to do a S rank run but just gave up/postponed after finding out that I'd have to do everything again.
 
I think it was due to Windows creating users the way they do since XP. Possibly started to help people find saves since some gamers didn't know where their saves were hiding. Possibly started to make sure multiple users could have their own saves? I dunno. But I think it's stupid. Old games used to have them buried somewhere in the main directory of the game. It made more sense back then.
 
LiQuid! said:
I can agree they should be centralized, but I stand my My Documents being a bad place. My hierarchy of where I would like my saved games:

1. The Cloud™
2. Centralized/standardized location that is NOT My Documents
3. The game's install directory
4. Up my ass
5. My Documents
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I already explained how #3 is a bad idea. #4 isn't feasible.

#1 is already used by Steam, and also results in its own problems. If cloud saves are corrupted due to bugs, I am not able to restore them unless I back up the local copies of those clouds saves, right? And to find those local copies...I have to dig into numbered folders under Steam directories if I recall correctly.

#2 could be an option if someone like Valve or Microsoft pushed for a standard. Where, then? As mentioned, the only good option is presumably be the user directory where you can write with non-admin access, or some completely new standard like "C:\GameData". Valve hasn't pushed for a standard that I'm aware of. Microsoft did push for a standard, and that standard is the "my games" folder in Vista and later versions to the best of my knowledge. *edit* Someone mentioned "Saved Games" which could work -- I'm not sure whether that is a Microsoft push that is newer or older than "my games", but "my games" seems a more general name, since games might need to store config files and screenshots in addition to save files.
 
Blizzard said:
Valve hasn't pushed for a standard that I'm aware of. Microsoft did push for a standard, and that standard is the "my games" folder in Vista and later versions to the best of my knowledge.
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Potentially Valve could add save/load management to steamworks and standardise this for SteamOS, but that would obviously only affect people using SteamOS
 
No idea. I thought at first I was being kidded with. Then the bombardment happened. Then I stopped caring and learned to love the bomb. I don't use that folder for anything else though anymore.
 
I wouldn't care if it was just standardised. If all games put their config settings in MyDocuments I would be psyched.

The stupid rigamaroll of checking My Documents, checking the games root folder, then checking AppData and trying to find the config settings is always a nuisance.
 
I hate it when it's in My Documents; I prefer it when it's with the game's directory.

It should always be in the cloud anyway, if it isn't then it's failure.
 
Alo81 said:
I wouldn't care if it was just standardised. If all games put their config settings in MyDocuments I would be psyched.

The stupid rigamaroll of checking My Documents, checking the games root folder, then checking AppData and trying to find the config settings is always a nuisance.
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Yes, this is what needs to stop. Every dev needs to decide where the hell they're going to put their saves and standardise it. How hard would it be to make the save data location My Documents\Games\Save Data\"Insert Game Name here"?
 
Mohasus said:
The worst offender is MGR.

Usually games use "%userprofile%" in the path, but not MGR. So it ends up saving in C:\Users\Me\ blablabla.

I had to reformat my PC and I lost the save data because it wasn't in D:\Users\Me\My Documents or the steam folder like all my other save files. For some reason, the cloud didn't work (0KB used). I was planning to do a S rank run but just gave up/postponed after finding out that I'd have to do everything again.
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Does it really do this?
This is fucking hilarious.
 
I agree, I didn't think this would be an issue when I first setup my PC. I installed windows on a 50 gig SSD but I'm literally 1.5 gigs away from being full. I have to go in and clear old save files to save up to a gig of space sometimes.

One day, maybe, I'll stop being lazy and move windows over to my HDD. But as of right now, it's a pretty inconvenient setup that's pretty much my own fault.
 
yeah, it's annoying. I kept thinking the game saves and configs would be save in the installed folders, lost a ton of saves this way
 
I'm not even a strong OCD kind of person and yet it annoys the fuck out of me. PC savegames must be stored in about 4-5 different locations all over my PC. Not sure who could enforce any sort of standard for this, though.

Dictator93 said:
The last nail in the PC coffin. How can PC compete when games create folders in my documents?
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:lol

Alo81 said:
I wouldn't care if it was just standardised. If all games put their config settings in MyDocuments I would be psyched.

The stupid rigamaroll of checking My Documents, checking the games root folder, then checking AppData and trying to find the config settings is always a nuisance.
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Exactly.
 
Dictator93 said:
Does it really do this?
This is fucking hilarious.
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iSona5eMgUMgO.jpg
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:^)
 
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of this either. I had one game drop it in AppData/Local directory which is hidden by default. I'm not sure why they can't just put it in the games directory under ooh I don't know "Saves"
 
Putting game saves and user config files in the game install directory is a bad idea. Thankfully, very few games do that. Usually, a decent uninstaller would delete that directory and everything in it. That would include your saves. What if you need or want to reinstall the game later? Your older saves are gone if the game didn't use Steam Cloud or similar (and even those are susceptible to corruption) and/or you didn't back 'em up locally. Saves and user ini files (and maybe even some mods) should be stored separately from the game's installation directory, and uninstallers should prompt the user whether they also want to delete local saved data.

There definitely should be standardization on the saves location though (and preferably not AppData/Local or AppData/Roaming). I'd be fine with "Users/<username>/Saved Games" (which very few games use) or "My Documents/My Games".

And use GameSave Manager.
 
Well it makes sense if you want to back up your saves. Mydocuments is one of the few folders everyday users know about that's on every windows machine.
 
I always end up having to go to pcgamingwiki just to check where the save files are

and the config files, because those have the same damn problem
 
Backing up save data is so much fun:

  • AppData/Local/[respective publishers/games folder]
  • My Documents/my games
  • My Documents/[respective publishers/games folder]
  • Steam/steamapps/common/[respective game folder]
  • Steam/userdata/[random number]/[WHICH RANDOM STRING OF NUMBERS IS WHICH GAME!?]
Oh, and don't forget to mention backing up GFWL games (three seperate backups), and some other games having information saved in multiple places.
 
LiQuid! said:
1/3rd of them go into the 'User/My Documents/My games' directory.
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A personal and immense FUCK to every single game and program that does this fuckshit. I literally can't play Dirt 3 because it records every video to the C drive.... which is 30 gigs large, about 20 of which are taken up by windows and swap. I don't keep anything but easy-to-reinstall programs on C, reformatting and reinstalling windows and getting back to usability is like 30 minutes of work. 'My Documents' is on D and I just target it every time i reformat so everything that saves to My Docs goes there, no problem.

But backing up shit in the user directory fucks everything. Fuck off minecraft. Lost several worlds because i completely forgot. Why even save worlds there who cares the install folder is on a different partition Why cant shit be in the same folder WHY.
 
I think it was around the time Vista launched. It makes no goddamn sense to me - if I reformat my computer, my saves are lost because the developers didn't think to put saves into their own game's folder, which is what used to happen. Mostly because, you know, it makes sense. I hate it.

GravityMan said:
Putting game saves and user config files in the game install directory is a bad idea. Thankfully, very few games do that. Usually, a decent uninstaller would delete that directory and everything in it. That would include your saves. What if you need or want to reinstall the game later? Your older saves are gone if the game didn't use Steam Cloud or similar (and even those are susceptible to corruption) and/or you didn't back 'em up locally. Saves and user ini files (and maybe even some mods) should be stored separately from the game's installation directory, and uninstallers should prompt the user whether they also want to delete local saved data.
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That's just it, though. It makes much more sense to keep save data in the game's install folder as long as the uninstaller asks you whether or not you want to keep your saves. As long as it has that functionality, is there any reason at all to store save games in any one of those multiple bloody locations after C:\Users?
 
It became like that awhile ago. As long as it's not in that AppData/Local whatever folders then I'm fine. If it's in My Programs, C:/, or My Documents then it means I can find them easily. Hell even the desktop is preferable.
 
laser said:
Blame User Accounts Control.

Not really, UAC is the best.
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Disabling UAC is the first thing I do when installing Windows. I don't appreciate having to ask Windows permission to do things on my own computer.

As for the game save files issue, it's really bad. These days, you basically have to cede your My Documents folder and go store your real documents elsewhere.
 
I moved my user folders to another drive (SSD is the OS drive). I don't ever see the game save stuff, it's in a folder I never look at.
 
This problem isn't limited to games. Adobe's done it since forever, as well as probably half of the other software suites I have. I just save all my files on my desktop.

Regarding AppData/Local, that's the only place GameMaker and some other engines lets you save to since they have super tight sandboxing. Oh well.
 
Linux has had a standard as defined by freedesktop.org for a while now, and that is what should be getting used there. Saved games data should be under ~/.local/usr/share/appname.

The old standard was to just dump everything in ~/.appname.

There is a workaround you can use for misbehaving apps and that is to use symlinks. A reference will still be where they're expecting it, but the saves will at least be in a central location.

I've just written a quick script that should move save/config files to the proper location and symlink the old:

http://pastebin.com/fXgGv1Ge

If anyone's brave enough to test it. It's needs to be executable and in your path, I put mine in ~/bin and called it fixgamesave.

To use it, find the stray appdata folder and do:

fixgamesave .appdata

I've put a sanity checks in, so filenames have to be alphanumeric, could be extended to allow _ and -. It'll work with files or directories.

Test it with some dummy data first and back up your saves... but don't blame me if it chases your cat up a tree.
 
L4DANathan said:
Backing up save data is so much fun:

  • AppData/Local/[respective publishers/games folder]
  • My Documents/my games
  • My Documents/[respective publishers/games folder]
  • Steam/steamapps/common/[respective game folder]
  • Steam/userdata/[random number]/[WHICH RANDOM STRING OF NUMBERS IS WHICH GAME!?]
Oh, and don't forget to mention backing up GFWL games (three seperate backups), and some other games having information saved in multiple places.
Click to expand...

No kidding. I forgot to back up my appdata saves when I reinstalled Windows, lost quite a bit of saves there.
 
The ideal for me would be:

  • Respect Windows "Document Library" location, so check which drive it is located on.
  • Store under Documents/my games/NameOfGame

I don't agree that they should be stored with the game, I'd like user data to be stored in the proper place for user data, the user's folder. I want the folder that stores the game itself to only contain game data (so everything that is easily re-downloaded and not unique)
 
It's annoying. Every game should let you choose the directory. I'd like to save on my second HDD in case of a system crash where everything goes wrong. Especially since not every game has cloud saves (looking at you Dark Souls 2)
 
Well yes it is chaotic. iD Tech 5 games do it right in the User/My games directory, but some have like three folders named "saves" and you never know which is which.
I'm fine with games using any folder, but at least make it a standard.
God bless save backup programs, anyway.
 
My My Documents used to be a nicely organised list of directories. Now it's a mess :(

L4DANathan said:
Steam/userdata/[random number]/[WHICH RANDOM STRING OF NUMBERS IS WHICH GAME!?]
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It's easy enough to look up the Steam ID by going to the store page and looking at the URL. But yes it's a pain in the arse.
 
They started it long time ago and sometimes it still annoys me, but generally got used to it.
If all games used My Games in My Documents, it would be amazing, but they dont.
Hell even EA games are not consistent. There is folder EA Games where i have saves from Medal of Honor MP and Mirror's Edge, but pretty much every other game has a its own folder.
At least Bioware is consistent and have one folder for all of its games.

I think the more annoying is Steam's default games path:
X:\[path to the Steam folder]\Steam\steamapps\[common or user]\[game]

But at least You can relocate them now.
 
Before My Games was a thing, the rule was pretty clear. Applications aren't supposed to put anything in My Documents unless the user explicitly saves it there. The only thing My Documents is supposed to be used for is the default location for the save dialog box. The correct way to store saved games would be to pop up a save dialog and let the user choose where to put the saved game files, defaulting to My Documents.

If letting the user choose is impossible, the only alternative is AppData.

Now that My Games exists, saved games should go in there. At every step of the way, there was an unambiguous correct place to put these files. The problem was developers thinking that the rules didn't apply to them and just choosing whatever location they felt like using.

If you're a developer, it doesn't fucking matter if you personally don't like the conventions of the platform you're developing for. You need to follow the rules or you're just going to make a huge mess.
 
That shit has been going on for over a decade. I remember Rise of Nations saving in My Games.

But the lack of standardisation is absolutely shite. Some games create a folder directly in My Documents, some in My Games, but the worst send their files deep within the AppData, Local, Roaming or whatever. Why the fuck can't they do like they used to in the late '90s when devs presupposed that the user isn't idiotic enough to install the games on his/her system/core programmes partition, but rather on a separate one for entertainment and data? Game data, including settings and saves should not reside on the system partition.
 
Dark Souls is just the best with this. Every config file and saved game sits in: C:\Users\Name\AppData\Local\NBGI\DarkSouls\

What the fuck is NBGI?
 
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