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When will Star Wars fandom stop feeling like a religious/cult group?

pel1300

pel1300

Member
I ask because it's gonna end eventually. The die hard older fans - the ones who see Star Wars as more than just a series of movies - and take exception whenever Star Wars is equated to being popcorn entertainment - they won't be around forever.

I think this is a generational issue - the boomers and older Gen Xers who lived through the OT times. The older millenials who grew up with watching the OT on VHS. The younger millenials who grew up with and like the prequels more than older fans. And then there is Gen Z who are crazy about Marvel.

I believe: the kids of today who are raised by hardcore OT SW lovers - they do like SW a lot but not anywhere near as much as their parents do. They prefer Marvel.

In 15 or 20 years when those kids are parents - do you see the kids and teenagers of today converting their future kids into SW fans in the same the way the boomers and Gen Xers did during the 90s, 2000s, and currently?

I hope I didn't offend anyone with the religion or cult comparison but let me explain:

-When I bash SW on any forum other than here or sherdog (MMA forum, they HATE TLJ) - where the out of touch SW fans live - the ones who think SW is as influential today as it was in the 1980s......they all click "like" on each others posts even if their points contradict each other. Some of them fall under the "SW is just for kids and I love it and you all overthink it, it's just for kids!!" crowd, while others are delusional "SW is high art and you don't understand TLJ" crowd....total opposites.

I just can't wait for the day I can say - SW is just entertainment created by a mega corporation, and made for broad appeal. Stanley Kubrick or David Lynch films they are not. Just blockbuster, not high art - without pissing off overly sensitive SW gushers.
 
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-Arcadia-

-Arcadia-

Banned
I love Star Wars too. It will always be a fundamental, beautiful moment in my childhood, and for a long time, there was nothing like it, both in imagination and what it put on the screen, with visual effects.

Certainly, it will always be special, if taken care of, because there’s a lot of magic in the core concept.

But some of these people really need to step back, and get a grip.
 
sol_bad

sol_bad

Member
What's wrong with letting people be people? Let them be in their own little communities .. or large communities.
Also op, if it annoys you so much, why not just try and steer clear of those type of forum threads? Spend your energy on something you love.

Or do you also love Star Wars?
 
The Cockatrice

The Cockatrice

Member
When you stop thinking about it. I enjoy Star Wars movies, despite all its flaws. Do I want more? Do I want something more mature? Something like KOTOR? Well fuck yeah I do but until then, I'll take what I can get. I'm mostly in for the atmosphere and cinematics in the new Star Wars movies and less for the coherence or the story pacing and whatnot.
 
pel1300

pel1300

Member
-Arcadia- said:
Not nearly soon enough.

Click to expand...


I genuinely think this guy is just very good at faking it to get clicks. No way that is real.

sol_bad said:
What's wrong with letting people be people? Let them be in their own little communities .. or large communities.
Also op, if it annoys you so much, why not just try and steer clear of those type of forum threads? Spend your energy on something you love.

Or do you also love Star Wars?
Click to expand...

^^^

See, the thing is I do steer clear of specific posts as I have given up on debating the new movies with people who disagree with me. I saw your own posts in the D23 trailer thread - I did not agree with your posts but I didn't bother to try to change your mind.

In the case of ERA, their SW threads are hilarious so it's fun to just browse them.

I watched the OT on VHS in the 90s and loved them. As for current SW - I had the same reaction as many. Slightly critical of TFA for being a remake, but overall enjoyed it and was optimistic for TLJ. But TLJ was just so weird...and not in a good way. I watched it in theaters two days in a row, which I really consider just one viewing. My brain hurt leaving the theater. Plinkett is dead on when he says "Your brain felt something wrong, even if you didn't notice it".

I just think Star Wars fandom has this unique characteristic. I don't think even LOTR fanatics get so defensive.

The most productive SW discussion I've had was the "Sequel Trilogy Criticism Thread" on theforce.net. I've been a member of theforce.net ever since I was a kid who just saw TPM in theaters. I was pleasantly surprised that they had a thread specifically designated for criticism only. IT was actually a very productive thread where I was able to engage in some discussion that was more balanced. More nuanced than just shitting on the movies.
 
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dan76

dan76

Member
Maybe it won't. I didn't think it was the older fans who were doing this. Isn't it more the people who were at the right age for the prequels? A lot of my friends who are into Star Wars just like the OT. Mainly because they are three cool movies, not some alternate universe with it's own rules and shit.

I think RLM did a video where they were comparing one of those Celebration crowds to a political rally. People need it apparently. When was the last time a religion died out?
 
The Elite

The Elite

BOSS
EuropeOG said:
Are the "people" in star wars "humans" ?
Click to expand...
That's a really good question.

I think the Star Wars galaxy has been around so long that some species traveled from their home planet eons ago. At this point I am not sure if they would be able to trace certain species back to their origin worlds.
 
#Phonepunk#

#Phonepunk#

Banned
Not gonna happen anytime soon. TLJ dove headfirst into taking this shit way too seriously. The fan wars are flamed by the company pumping out product, they just want consumers to fight one another over who is the “real fan”. All of it is really quite silly.

Personally I think u can feel how you want to about any film or artwork but once you start attacking people for not sharing your opinion you are placing the work above other people. At that point your just a jerk
 
pel1300

pel1300

Member
dan76 said:
Maybe it won't. I didn't think it was the older fans who were doing this. Isn't it more the people who were at the right age for the prequels? A lot of my friends who are into Star Wars just like the OT. Mainly because they are three cool movies, not some alternate universe with it's own rules and shit.

I think RLM did a video where they were comparing one of those Celebration crowds to a political rally. People need it apparently. When was the last time a religion died out?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure. It's something I wonder about. Maybe those forums I frequented were an anomaly.

This kid here is even younger than prequel SW age, and he makes a kind of funny and adorable video about how sensitive ppl are about TLJ:



As for that RLM video, yes I saw that. It was hilarious. I remember Stolkasa's line about those SW events: "It's like a presidential candidate rally where the candidate can do no wrong"
 
Nymphae

Nymphae

Banned
Proteus said:
I think the Star Wars galaxy has been around so long that some species traveled from their home planet eons ago. At this point I am not sure if they would be able to trace certain species back to their origin worlds.
Click to expand...

I don't think it matters, the stewards of the franchise observably don't care about the details anymore.

Like look at this - isn't this embarrassing? This is what Disney has at the Star Wars theme park thing, note the rides to bar/restuarant ratio. 1 ride and 12 souvenir stores. Oh and by the way you have to pre-register to purchase a "custom saber" before you even enter the park lol.

kBSFDph.jpg


"Toydarian toyshop"? Did they just invent a race of toymakers to sell toys at their shitty theme park? They have no reverence for the thing they want you to kneel for.
 
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#Phonepunk#

#Phonepunk#

Banned
pel1300 said:
Some of them fall under the "SW is just for kids and I love it and you all overthink it, it's just for kids!!" crowd, while others are delusional "SW is high art and you don't understand TLJ" crowd....total opposites.
Click to expand...
usually it's back and forth, is what's i've found. when you don't like the movie, it's "You are bad at watching movies, how stupid do you have to be to not get the theme" and then once you start complaining about the film someone busts about itsaspacemovieaboutwizards.gif and it's just a dumb movie for kids why are you being so harsh? just entirely full of shit. when it's convenient to ignore the crappy filmmaking, it's just kids movies, hey, don't get so worked up. but as soon as you saw a bad thing about anything in the film, we instantly enter Film School Land and everyone is an expert.

it wasn't like this during the prequels. the only people really nerding out over them were RLM, and they weren't entirely serious. that's what the big problem is, I think, people took them too serious. a lot of people think if you like RLM you hate SW but it was never that way. i enjoyed the prequels but i enjoyed the RLM videos as well. they didn't diminish my love for them in any way. i could admit the acting was bad and story was silly and x, y, and z, but also that i still liked it. nobody was calling me a freak or a woman hater for liking or not liking the prequels. in fact most mainstream just saw them as "oh yeah SW is a thing, I remember wookies" the ST era has done a big number on the legacy, feel like a lot of rewriting history has happened, people think the prequels were this huge disaster nobody liked, when that was never the case.

i do think the religious connotations are accurate. religion never went away, people just put that energy into things other than religious instititutions. you look at how many hours a day spent arguing over these things, over the millions of people flocking to yearly pilgrimages, about all the emotions tied up in it all, the behaviors really are quite similar. they even have their evangelists
 
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Nymphae

Nymphae

Banned
#Phonepunk# said:
lol toydarian. how long did it take for them to come up with that?
Click to expand...

Oh wait lol, I just looked it up, evidently that is the race of hooked nose merchants that was created for the Prequel Trilogy. They just published some books on August 27th that establish a Toydarian Toyshop so they can point to a piece of official lore so that this will make sense.

499
 
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DunDunDunpachi

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Star Wars is for kids. There, I said it. The originals are very good but largely because they faithfully echo archetypal plots and characters in a sci-fi setting. Prequel trilogy is okay but it is the result of when you try to make a serious sci-fi universe out of a kid's property (hello Transformers). Disney Wars is garbage and is the result of when you try to make another Marvel Cinematic Universe out of a kid's property.

I'm glad my dad introduced me to Trek alongside Star Wars when I was growing up.
 
-Minsc-

-Minsc-

Member
Never, they just won't have the mainstream attention.

-Arcadia- said:
Not nearly soon enough.

Click to expand...

I do not understand. That guy is either really good at expressing his emotions or faking them. Crying is just not a reaction I get when watching such a trailer. I can really see now how I've allowed such people to string me along over the years with my interest in geeky things. That idea of adapting to fit into the crowd. I just can't do it.

#Phonepunk# said:
i do think the religious connotations are accurate. religion never went away, people just put that energy into things other than religious instititutions. you look at how many hours a day spent arguing over these things, over the millions of people flocking to yearly pilgrimages, about all the emotions tied up in it all, the behaviors really are quite similar. they even have their evangelists
Click to expand...
Honestly, I believe humanity would be better off pointing their energy back toward the religious institutions. Or better yet, seeing the similarities between the two may help shed more light on the lessons religious institutions have attempted to teach.
 
pel1300

pel1300

Member
#Phonepunk# said:
usually it's back and forth, is what's i've found. when you don't like the movie, it's "You are bad at watching movies, how stupid do you have to be to not get the theme" and then once you start complaining about the film someone busts about itsaspacemovieaboutwizards.gif and it's just a dumb movie for kids why are you being so harsh? just entirely full of shit. when it's convenient to ignore the crappy filmmaking, it's just kids movies, hey, don't get so worked up. but as soon as you saw a bad thing about anything in the film, we instantly enter Film School Land and everyone is an expert.

it wasn't like this during the prequels. the only people really nerding out over them were RLM, and they weren't entirely serious. that's what the big problem is, I think, people took them too serious. a lot of people think if you like RLM you hate SW but it was never that way. i enjoyed the prequels but i enjoyed the RLM videos as well. they didn't diminish my love for them in any way. i could admit the acting was bad and story was silly and x, y, and z, but also that i still liked it. nobody was calling me a freak or a woman hater for liking or not liking the prequels. in fact most mainstream just saw them as "oh yeah SW is a thing, I remember wookies" the ST era has done a big number on the legacy, feel like a lot of rewriting history has happened, people think the prequels were this huge disaster nobody liked, when that was never the case.

i do think the religious connotations are accurate. religion never went away, people just put that energy into things other than religious instititutions. you look at how many hours a day spent arguing over these things, over the millions of people flocking to yearly pilgrimages, about all the emotions tied up in it all, the behaviors really are quite similar. they even have their evangelists
Click to expand...
I remember the prequel days - one user named "Go_Mer_Tonic" made a name for himself being the leader of the prequel defense force. He eventually got banned from theforce.net, originaltrilogy.com, and IGN boards.

I didn't bother arguing with anyone about the prequels on theforce.net except those who kept denying that Palpatine was Darth Sidious.

Rick McCallum staight up said "They are one and the same person. No clones, no hidden plan. Palpatine is Sidious. No tricks" and many fans still insisted that "Just because the producer says it doesn't make it true". Then I just gave up.
 
E

EightBit Man

Member
I'm not a part of the current fanbase anymore. What I mean is that I've stopped supporting Star Wars after Episode III. Couldn't care less about the stuff that came after it. For me, Star Wars is synonymous with George Lucas.
 
-Minsc-

-Minsc-

Member
Nymphae said:
Or is developmentally arrested like a large number of people in this culture and genuinely feels this level of emotion for corporate nostalgia product.
Click to expand...
I'd call myself developmentally arrested in many ways, though I don't act like that. Up to him though, I guess. Since I don't know anything about the rest of his life I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Those first impressions, it's hard to not judge. I know I can be a slow learner.

To see the reality of things I just have to look at Star Trek, a franchise I had more interest in. The whole idea of Star Trek being this this idyllic view of the future and treating it as some sort of idol never even registered when I watched it as a teen. I just found the shows to be cool. Sure, the shows may have tackled social issues but this is not what drew me in. I can see how some fans may have emotional reaction to Star Trek since it did present things in a way which inspired many people. Today though, Star Trek has been reduced to this money milking machine which plays of the inspirational laurels of its predecessors. Honestly, even in the past the idea of Star Trek being this great inspiration had to have been hyped up to make more money.
 
TheShadowLord

TheShadowLord

Member
Birdo said:
In the Special Edition of A New Hope. Han Solo says "You're a wonderful human being" to Jabba.



More interstingly, Han Solo also says "I'll see you in hell" in the Empire Strikes Back,. Meaning that Christianity also exists in the universe.
Click to expand...

Just cut footage they used when Jabba the Hutt was supposed to be a human being instead of being a Hutt.
 
Nymphae

Nymphae

Banned
V4skunk said:
In one video he says he is with his girlfriend, but in the hotel room where he is filming there are two single beds lol.
Click to expand...

Maybe she's got the jimmy legs/arms and it's just a more comfortable arrangement that way lol.



"30 years ago we came to an agreement, it was the only way I could get some rest" lol
 
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EverydayBeast

EverydayBeast

thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Lol Star Wars cults, I’m not a hardcore fan but I’ve seem enough of Star Wars to know what’s what.
 
StreetsofBeige

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
pel1300 said:
I ask because it's gonna end eventually. The die hard older fans - the ones who see Star Wars as more than just a series of movies - and take exception whenever Star Wars is equated to being popcorn entertainment - they won't be around forever.

I think this is a generational issue - the boomers and older Gen Xers who love anything with SW stamped on it.

I believe: the kids of today who are raised by hardcore OT SW lovers - they do like SW a lot but not anywhere near as much as their parents do. They prefer Marvel.

In 15 or 20 years when those kids are parents - do you see the kids and teenagers of today converting their future kids into SW fans in the same the way the boomers and Gen Xers did during the 90s, 2000s, and currently?


I hope I didn't offend anyone with the religion or cult comparison but let me explain:

-When I bash SW on bluray forums - where the older and out of touch SW fans live - the ones who think SW is as influential today as it was in the 1980s......they all "like" each others posts even if their points contradict each other. Some of them fall under the "SW is just for kids and I love it and you all overthink it, it's just for kids!!" crowd, while others are delusional "SW is high art and you don't understand TLJ" crowd....total opposites.

I just can't wait for the day I can say - SW is entertainment created by a mega corporation - not high art - without pissing off nerds on blu-ray forums.
Click to expand...
The Star Wars and Star Trek nerds have slowly died off and will continue to.

The reason why so many people 40 years ago latched onto those franchises is because it was really the only big budget nerdy space-age shows and movies at the time. So if you wanted intergalactic wow factor, those were it. And they always were half comedies/cheese/nerd factor.

Now, every movie seems to have big budgets and CGI, so people have so many more options, such as the million comic book movies the past 15 years.

However, it's a weird thing though. Comicbook heroes have been around a lot longer than SW and ST, but you never get so many diehards acting and dressing up like them. Maybe due to so many comic heroes, the fandom gets stretched thin across characters.

Give it another 20 years, and SW and ST fandom will be nothing. ST has already died off. You don't hear anything about anyone trying to follow the new movies and cast. And I don't see any millennials spending time following Shatner or Picard oldies.

Current movies are darker, more realistic, and less cheese. And followers typically don't follow super serious stuff. Back then, SW and ST was probably 33% serious, 33% nerd giggles, 33% big jokes, with gaudy costumes. Now, it's probably 80% serious, 10% nerd giggles, 10% big jokes, with serious/clean cut costumes.
 
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Caffeine

Caffeine

Member
I will always love the classic video games some of the movies are probably in my top 10 films of all time, but I see the fandom dying off with rian johnson and GoT dudes respective trilogies, by 2040 most people probably wont give a shit about it anymore and cling on to whatever new scifi ip takes off.
 
The Scrivener

The Scrivener

Member
-Arcadia- said:
Not nearly soon enough.

Click to expand...


I thought this video was the older one, but I watched it when I realised it was a newer one. Oh my that poor guy. He does that every time? It doesn't look scripted. Weeeird.

Cult like. He says "I love it when Master Skywalker talks to us one more time." I've been to many religious festivals/events and the language is identical in some people (not me, I avoid cult like mentality).
 
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Weilthain

Weilthain

Banned
for me the magic was gone after last Jedi.

I will always look forward to the next movies, but the mystical feels I got from the older movies stay with the older movies.

Now it just seems like the people in charge don’t even like or know Star Wars as much as they really should.
 
Caffeine

Caffeine

Member
Weilthain said:
for me the magic was gone after last Jedi.

I will always look forward to the next movies, but the mystical feels I got from the older movies stay with the older movies.

Now it just seems like the people in charge don’t even like or know Star Wars as much as they really should.
Click to expand...
yes I was incredibly hyped when trailers were dropping, the second the movie started with a your mom joke i knew something was wrong. I didnt even watch solo until it popped up on netflix, each trailer so far for rise of the skywalker also hasnt blown me away, I've even looked into the spoilers which I have never done for previous films just to see where they are taking this.
 
#Phonepunk#

#Phonepunk#

Banned
feel like Empire really did a number on things. when you have a culture that is wholly materialistic and based on consumption, spirituality has been rejected, it is not of value. so when you have a movie that is hugely popular come out and entertain spiritual ideas ("Luminous beings we are, not this crude matter") it is giving something people desperately want and need. people have lived with the reality that "God is dead" and "religion is obsolete" for so long that a puppet speaking Zen koans was truly a mindblowing thing. for a culture starved for transcendent content, Yoda's mysticism was & remains intoxicating.

i honestly think that's a lot of the reason for the craziness. people hear that, they imagine this grand spirituality, they imagine the Jedis to be x, y, and z, they start projecting Saint narratives onto them, etc. a lot of the PT backlash had to do with the Jedi, "they weren't super holy, they were stupid, rash, clueless, etc." at that point I started feeling, maybe people are taking this Jedi thing too seriously.

perhaps the root of all of it can be traced to ROTJ itself. Lucas was going to famously title it "Revenge of the Jedi" until a fan asked him "Wouldn't a real Jedi be above revenge?" at that point, before the third films release, stans had already taken possession of the story, they were already taking the series "more serious" than the creator.

as far as the new films, they seem to be aimed directly at those superfans who demand the Jedi vs Sith thing to be the only thing that matters. more and more it seems like that will be the end result, and that the deaths of trillions will likely be entirely ignored to serve some "satisfying" "redemption arc".
 
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Weilthain

Weilthain

Banned
#Phonepunk# said:
feel like Empire really did a number on things. when you have a culture that is wholly materialistic and based on consumption, spirituality has been rejected, it is not of value. so when you have a movie that is hugely popular come out and entertain spiritual ideas ("Luminous beings we are, not this crude matter") it is giving something people desperately want and need. people have lived with the reality that "God is dead" and "religion is obsolete" for so long that a puppet speaking Zen koans was truly a mindblowing thing. for a culture starved for transcendent content, Yoda's mysticism was & remains intoxicating.

i honestly think that's a lot of the reason for the craziness. people hear that, they imagine this grand spirituality, they imagine the Jedis to be x, y, and z, they start projecting Saint narratives onto them, etc. a lot of the PT backlash had to do with the Jedi, "they weren't super holy, they were stupid, rash, clueless, etc." at that point I started feeling, maybe people are taking this Jedi thing too seriously.

perhaps the root of all of it can be traced to ROTJ itself. Lucas was going to famously title it "Revenge of the Jedi" until a fan asked him "Wouldn't a real Jedi be above revenge?" at that point, before the third films release, stans had already taken possession of the story, they were already taking the series "more serious" than the creator.

as far as the new films, they seem to be aimed directly at those superfans who demand the Jedi vs Sith thing to be the only thing that matters. more and more it seems like that will be the end result, and that the deaths of trillions will likely be entirely ignored to serve some "satisfying" "redemption arc".
Click to expand...
As a super fan (ex?), it annoys the shit out of me talking to casual viewers.

I was talking to my brother before force awakens came out, making predictions and stuff.

He said he thought Han Solo would be a Jedi.

People say they like Star Wars when they don’t give a shit about it and they ruined it for the real fans....REAL FANS!
 
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