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Where does Kanye rate amongst the greats?

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Blink 182 was more influential to punk than Kayne has been to anything.

They were massively influential to all forms of rock that cmae after, one could argue. But if you think kanye hasn't affected all of pop in general then either you're nuts or don't know what you're talking about. His influence is massive.

He expanded the platform in a way only Will Smith had ever come close to doing.
 
Gonna need some sauce on these or are you guys literally just stereotyping hip hop artists?

I checked the writing credits.

And yeah dude go loop a sample and let me know when you get to Heart of the city levels which was his freshman work.

Just cutting and pasting, innit? Easy.

On that same token, how about you chuck some chords together and repeat them a few times. Let me know when you get to the level of, say, any Beatles song whatsoever?
 
I don't know where to rank Kanye because he's like Dr Dre in that a lot of his stuff is written by other artist and a lot of his stuff is co produced with other producers.
 
1)James Brown
2)Stevie Wonder
3)Ella Fitzgerald
4)Jimi Hendrix
5)Aretha Franklin
6)George Clinton
7)Sly Stone
8)Marvin Gaye
9)Bob Marley
10)Tina Turner

Is Kanye a proper legend or just another flash in the pan?
Are you 22?

He's another flash in the pan; a step above (barely) what Linkin Park did for alternative rock last decade perhaps. He'll be forgettable in a few years and will probably end up being remembered for his marriage to Kim Kardashian more than anything else. He's an ever-conflicted manchild who exaggerates nearly everything he says and people will not remember that fondly.

Jay Z and Eminem will probably be the most respected hip hop artists out of this 'era' once all the dust settles. Even they won't reach the levels of crossover appeal and respect that your top 10 list has, though; they'll largely be confined to being recognized as talented hip hop artists more than anything else.
 
I checked the writing credits.



Just cutting and pasting, innit? Easy.

On that same token, how about you chuck some chords together and repeat them a few times. Let me know when you get to the level of, say, any Beatles song whatsoever?

Its not that easy. Lol copy and paste. And lol dude what the hell are you talking about they hand out sheet music to all you need is love in like class #1 of lessons, literally any guitarist can match the Beatles . You seem angry don't start taking personal shots cuz you don't know what the hell you're talking about and you're gonna look dumb. There are music producers and musicians of all walks of life here on gaf. I'm pretty surewe could make something on the technical level of the Beatles with our eyes closed. Relax. You are allowed to like the Beatles. But dont talk out your ass.
 
He'll be forgettable in a few years and will probably end up being remembered for his marriage to Kim Kardashian more than anything else. He's an ever-conflicted manchild who exaggerates nearly everything he says and people will not remember that fondly.

Holy shit, you nailed it.

But yes, he doesn't even come close. To ask if he ranks among the greats is massively insultive towards said greats.
 
Do you really think 16 producers wrote parts to a song? Not only is that probably wrong but if it was true it would make those songs more impressive cuz then its almost like a 16 man band

It is true.

Songwriters includes those sampled - another track, from reading the credits, must have a Black Sabbath sample in it for example.

If Kanye is such a great producer, why does his album need 14 other producers? Is it just about giving his mates a payday or something? I don't understand. If you're an artist, surely you want your album to encompass your vision and not get watered down by too many cooks?
 
I checked the writing credits.



Just cutting and pasting, innit? Easy.

On that same token, how about you chuck some chords together and repeat them a few times. Let me know when you get to the level of, say, any Beatles song whatsoever?

Cutting a pasting lol.

Try filtering out the sample, making it blend with the drum pattern, doing additional editing so it can have an an acapella part, stretching the sample so it can match the bpm, and trying not to fuck up the sample because of limitations that come with hardware around that time.
 
It is true.

Songwriters includes those sampled - another track, from reading the credits, must have a Black Sabbath sample in it for example.

If Kanye is such a great producer, why does his album need 14 other producers? Is it just about giving his mates a payday or something? I don't understand. If you're an artist, surely you want your album to encompass your vision and not get watered down by too many cooks?

You don't know that. Unless you have info we dont? And what does that have to do with anything anyways? Not only do you not know the extent of his artistry but you're trying to dismiss it based on your own subjective view of what an artist should or shouldn't be, and that they should do everything 100% on his own? And he's a rapper on those albums. Either way he's talented, just like the Beatles in spite their simplicity. Get my point?
 
Not sure where he ranks on the Legends of Music list, but I can say for sure that he's really high up on the ''People I'm tired of hearing about" list.
 
Muahahaha. No. Please. Let's.

Shall we pull some sheet music or do you need a second to reconsider what you're defending? The beatles were not even good at their instruments. They were like blink 182.


And instead of just starting at how mad I am, back your shit up? We are taking about opinions but I'd be curious to know why you think kanye did nothing for conscious music ?

The beatles music is literally easier to play for a beginner musician than most Christmas music.

Wut. Wut. Wut.

Simplicity has nothing to do with the quality of a song, you can literally follow a 1-4-5 chord progression while still being original in style, arrangement, sound, etc, etc.
 
I hated kanye like many in this thread, until I actually bothered to sit down and listen to the music.

I think hes for sure one of the all time greats, but it's far too soon to talk about his placement or his influence. He's still going. Maybe in ten years it'd be easier to have this discussion, but I think that right now it's too soon.
 
Of modern mainstream artists, Kanye West is definitely the peak. He's shown an understanding of songwriting and music that surpasses many more "artful" underground musicians. He has redefined and reshaped Hip Hop and American culture at large in a way that few musicians have, with the same creativity and prescience as the Beatles. Orthodox critics laughed at Kanye when he wore skinny jeans, released an album with minimal backup, almost no rapping, and heavy autotune, and rapped about subjects that no other 2000s artist would dare touch. But they stopped laughing when every other rapper did the same thing as Kanye, three or four years later.

When looking at his bare musical talent, I think that Kanye is certainly close to the equal of Marvin Gaye, Hendrix, and Stevie Wonder. But it's honestly too soon to tell. Despite having at least eleven years in the industry, Kanye West is at the top of his game. His last two albums were his best, and although his post-Yeezus work has been a little bizarre, nobody knows if he has peaked or not.
 
I disgaree and think its to taste it doesn't speak to everyone man. As someone who grew up in PG County MD, "Wait till I get my money right...then you can't tell me nothing right?" Is much more anthemic . Kanye does well with lower income brackets I guess because otherwise how will you relate to his messages? They're all ghetto struggle living life trying to shine in a world where we are looked down upon and everyone judges you as ignorant. So its easy to see that in other neighborhoods its not gonna mean much to them. And in some people are gonna lok up to him hard, because he exemplifies those ideas
.

To me Kanye doesn't have the song writing chops to really speak about ghetto struggles. He has throw away lines, but he has never really put out anything with substance on the subject.

Does he have a Brenda's got a baby, Everyday Struggle, My Block, No Woman No Cry, or The River
 
Its not that easy. Lol copy and paste. And lol dude what the hell are you talking about they hand out sheet music to all you need is love in like class #1 of lessons, literally any guitarist can match the Beatles

That's not quite the same as writing it, is it?

To be clear, I'm turning what you're posting around to make a point about how ridiculously dismissive you're being. Saying it's as easy as chucking a few chords together is just as trite an observation as saying sampling is just copy and pasting.

There are no "personal" shots being made.
 
Kanye West has some fantastic songs and great production, but he doesn't rank high. He's average as a rapper and great as a producer. Basically, he's a much less successful Dr. Dre.
 
That's not quite the same as writing it, is it?

To be clear, I'm turning what you're posting around to make a point about how ridiculously dismissive you're being. Saying it's as easy as chucking a few chords together is just as trite an observation as saying sampling is just copy and pasting.

There are no "personal" shots being made.

Okay okay I see what you're saying...maybe I'm biased because I can play guitar so I can easily recreate most Beatles arrangements parts but I can't produce very well so I look at kanye different. I get what you're saying and I also just have a personal vendetta against the Beatles because of the time I spent learning their music with others and ripping my hair out because they couldn't get it and I just wanted to move on .

And now I'm doing vocal lessons and guess who the teacher LOVES using to learn harmonies

All I know, OP. Is #1 is Claudio Sanchez.
 
Muahahaha. No. Please. Let's.

Shall we pull some sheet music or do you need a second to reconsider what you're defending? The beatles were not even good at their instruments. They were like blink 182.


And instead of just starting at how mad I am, back your shit up? We are taking about opinions but I'd be curious to know why you think kanye did nothing for conscious music ?

The beatles music is literally easier to play for a beginner musician than most Christmas music.

I had the definitive Beatles songbook. There are more distinctly different chords in any late period Beatles song (Blackbird being a great example) than you'd probably find in an entire Blink album.
 
You don't know that. Unless you have info we dont? And what does that have to do with anything anyways? Not only do you not know the extent of his artistry but you're trying to dismiss it based on your own subjective view of what an artist should or shouldn't be, and that they should do everything 100% on his own? And he's a rapper on those albums. Either way he's talented, just like the Beatles in spite their simplicity. Get my point?

How do you maintain a consistent artistic vision with 15 different producers behind the console?
 
He doesn't rate anywhere on that list.

Of modern mainstream artists, Kanye West is definitely the peak. He's shown an understanding of songwriting and music that surpasses many more "artful" underground musicians. He has redefined and reshaped Hip Hop and American culture at large in a way that few musicians have, with the same creativity and prescience as the Beatles. Orthodox critics laughed at Kanye when he wore skinny jeans, released an album with minimal backup, almost no rapping, and heavy autotune, and rapped about subjects that no other 2000s artist would dare touch. But they stopped laughing when every other rapper did the same thing as Kanye, three or four years later.

When looking at his bare musical talent, I think that Kanye is certainly close to the equal of Marvin Gaye, Hendrix, and Stevie Wonder. But it's honestly too soon to tell. Despite having at least eleven years in the industry, Kanye West is at the top of his game. His last two albums were his best, and although his post-Yeezus work has been a little bizarre, nobody knows if he has peaked or not.
Speaking as a musician, hell no. Good collaborator and producer, sure. Call me when he writes 100% of his own shit and doesn't have 20 people helping produce and write one song.
 
How do you maintain a consistent artistic vision with 15 different producers behind the console?
Um he did it? Multiple times? Along with hundreds of other artists who do it every day? What is a band? What is jamming with people? What are you talking about who are you taking to

I had the definitive Beatles songbook. There are more distinctly different chords in any late period Beatles song (Blackbird being a great example) than you'd probably find in an entire Blink album.

I'm sure, I'm sorry I was so harsh as to compare them to blink they didn't deserve it. (I liked blink BTW)
 
I don't think I've liked anything I've heard after his first two albums, so although I've never written a list he'd be nowhere near it.
 
Not even remotely close to being on par with the artists listed in the OP, who coincidentally are not even close to being on par with actually great artists.
 
Wut. Wut. Wut.

Simplicity has nothing to do with the quality of a song, you can literally follow a 1-4-5 chord progression while still being original in style, arrangement, sound, etc, etc.

I didn't say it did, and didnt mean to imply it. Kanye is simple too. I'm countering people dismissing kanye based on simplicity, with my opinion that if we are going to accept the Beatles into the top , (which is understandable. I can see it), then kanye should be considered, and is at least as talented musically.

And what's a black beatle anyway?
 
If anything Nas needs to be on the top ten. Dude is the hip hop Confucius. There's too many Kanye threads, but not enough Nas threads to see where people stand in that type of argument.
 
If anything Nas needs to be on the top ten. Dude is the hip hop Confucius. There's too many Kanye threads, but not enough Nas threads to see where people stand in that type of argument.

I think it's more of a thing where we all already agree on it. Kanye threads catch fire because everyone has something to say
 
Absolutely he ranks. Say what you want about his personality or theatrics but purely on music, he ranks.

Thirty/Forty/Fifty years from now, College Dropout/Late Registration and a bunch of his other music will have resonance.

And that's not even considering all the amazing shit he's produced for other people. Guess Who's Back is almost 13 years old now and he still hasn't topped it!
 
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