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[HighPoly]

I'm from Brazil, and I live in a random upper middle class family, from south america. I think that means being like middle/middle class in US.
My father always bought TOYOTA cars, like Corolla, Toyota Prius and we already bought a 2009 Camry XLE V6.
Today gasoline is very expensive, and we're looking for the new 2024 hybrid Prius, recently annoucend.
But all those cars had their own cicles, we always buy two cars, and stays with them for around 8 or 10 years. I mean, brand new cars, never used cars.

But anyway, what kind of cars Americans buy today? what kind of cars families use to buy in your State? Truck? Hybrids? Sedans? Vans? What mark? What price?

 

[Pollux]

BMW 3 series or that equivalent based on where I live.

 

[Billbofet]

By me, it's almost all cross-overs and boring SUVs. My neighborhood is Honda Pilots at every other house. The houses without a Honda Pilot, have a Hyundai Palisade, or a Toyota Whogivesashit SUV.
I will always be a sedan guy, and when I recently shopped around for a car, my options were very limited. I ended up with a Genesis G80, which I love, but I feel even five years ago there were way more options for sedans.
Now, it's just endless streams of boxes that all look identical. Hopefully, as EV adoption increases, some creativity will make it back into the market.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Definitely SUVs or large trucks, but the range is big. Generally from 30,000 to 59,000.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Americans and Canadians are big into SUVs. Pretty sure in the US pick up trucks are big sellers too.

Good vehicles to have with lots of room and cargo space if you got lots of fat people using the vehicle have tons of groceries, camping/sports gear or trips to Costco. Not good if want sleek sporty performance.

I'd estimate middle class vehicles are something like a Honda Accord or Dodge Caravan.

 

[AJUMP23]

Toyota 4 runners. Chevy trucks. Mini van is very middle class with family. Suv too.

 

[nightfly]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have heard before when it comes to European countries really large trucks/SUVs and the like are rather rare.

 

[GeekyDad]

Yeah, Camrys, Corrolas, those are good representations of American middle class cars. But you mentioned the cost of gas, and folks are posting replies about SUVs and BMWs. So...good luck.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have heard before when it comes to European countries really large trucks/SUVs and the like are rather rare.

Yes. First of all because of parking space, second because the typical American cars burn obscene amount of gasoline, we are talking 3 or 3.5 litre engines whereas in Europe 2 is considered big.
Having said that there is definitely more SUVs in Europe as well - my neighbourhood is all Volvo’s XC 40 or 60, lots of Teslas.
Hybrids are popular as well due to pollution requirements and -
of course - gas prices.

 

[TDiddyLive]

The middle class is the largest car buying segment so all you have to do is look at the best selling cars to get an idea. Mostly Trucks and SUVs.

https://www.kbb.com/best-cars/top-10-25-best-selling-cars-trucks-suvs/#:~:text=25%20Best-Selling%20Cars%20of%202022%201%201.%20Ford,Tacoma%20Total%20Units%20Sold%3A%20237%2C323%20...%20More%20items

 

[ahtlas7]

In Texas:

 

[Thaedolus]

I have a truck because I have a family and a dog, and use it to tow a camper several times a year. But if we’re just driving the family around, we have a tiny Corolla that we’re going to replace with either a hybrid or EV this year…I like the truck but I don’t like the gas mileage and carbon footprint. I’m looking at the various EV trucks coming down the line too.

 

[RoboFu]

Yes. First of all because of parking space, second because the typical American cars burn obscene amount of gasoline, we are talking 3 or 3.5 litre engines whereas in Europe 2 is considered big.
Having said that there is definitely more SUVs in Europe as well - my neighbourhood is all Volvo’s XC 40 or 60, lots of Teslas.
Hybrids are popular as well due to pollution requirements and -
of course - gas prices.

Huh most car engines are around 2 liters. Doesn’t matter where you live. Usually 3 and above are reserved for v8 engines. I’m


European’s typically don’t drive as far as Americans which makes evs much harder to own in the US. The UKs most popular car is a ford fiesta because it’s cheap. And easy to fix. No other reason. It’s not being noble .. it’s a cheap ass car.


Myself I buy gas to burn it in my backyard and watch the big plumes of smoke rise.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have heard before when it comes to European countries really large trucks/SUVs and the like are rather rare.

Plenty of SUVs but stupid large cars like Ford F150 and shit, nah, nothing like that

 

[Lasha]

Huh most car engines are around 2 liters. Doesn’t matter where you live. Usually 3 and above are reserved for v8 engines. I’m


European’s typically don’t drive as far as Americans which makes evs much harder to own in the US. The UKs most popular car is a ford fiesta because it’s cheap. And easy to fix. No other reason. It’s not being noble .. it’s a cheap ass car.


Myself I buy gas to burn it in my backyard and watch the big plumes of smoke rise.

Sub 2 is pretty common in many places. Smaller cars make city driving bearable I drive a 1.3 L Honda fit. It's pretty comfortable, fuel efficient, and reliable. I can evade jams and park anywhere in my city while having a comfortable ride for road trips with my family.

 

[Doczu]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have heard before when it comes to European countries really large trucks/SUVs and the like are rather rare.

Correct. Our mini vans are tiny compare to thr US ones. In Poland only the rich drive big SUVs and luxury sedans, the middle class has either a small hatchback (single or couples) or station wagons and (euro) mini vans.

There is a super budget Dacia (romanian) SUV and it got a foot hold in the middle class.

I've got a small station wagon and wpuld.love to upgrade to something bigger.

 

[daffyduck]

Huh most car engines are around 2 liters. Doesn’t matter where you live. Usually 3 and above are reserved for v8 engines. I’m


European’s typically don’t drive as far as Americans which makes evs much harder to own in the US. The UKs most popular car is a ford fiesta because it’s cheap. And easy to fix. No other reason. It’s not being noble .. it’s a cheap ass car.


Myself I buy gas to burn it in my backyard and watch the big plumes of smoke rise.

3 - 4L is V6 capacity.

EVs/PHEVs are also difficult to own, due to lack of availability. Dealers can add markups to the already high prices, and that's after a long wait.

Even the new Prius, while only a Hybrid and relatively affordable, is a unicorn.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

There is a super budget Dacia (romanian) SUV and it got a foot hold in the middle class.

Same in France, that thing is like 20 000€ full equipped, Volvos are 60k€ and above.

 

[Oh The Travesty]

You'd be better off focusing on a particular region first.

Even though there are definitely similarities, even things like "middle class" have vastly different attributes and cultures from state to state or even just rural vs suburban vs urban middle class people.

That'd be like me assuming middle class people in Poland are the same as middle class people from Germany simply because they're both from a vague central European region.

The American coasts and major urban metros are disgusting shit holes regardless lol.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Definitely SUVs or large trucks, but the range is big. Generally from 30,000 to 59,000.

It's bananas to me what people spend on cars as a proportion of their income. The median income in the US is like $31,000 and the median car loan is like $45,000. I see people driving cars that cost their annual salary all the time. It's absolutely insane.

I don't think I've ever spent more than 3% of my annual income on a car. Even when I was broke.

 

[Unknown?]

Yes. First of all because of parking space, second because the typical American cars burn obscene amount of gasoline, we are talking 3 or 3.5 litre engines whereas in Europe 2 is considered big.
Having said that there is definitely more SUVs in Europe as well - my neighbourhood is all Volvo’s XC 40 or 60, lots of Teslas.
Hybrids are popular as well due to pollution requirements and -
of course - gas prices.

Son there is no replacement for displacement.

On a serious note 3.5L is big? My old truck was a 7.5L, it was fun to drive but not to fill up. Lol I want to buy a restored 60s/70s SUV. Yeah gas will be more expensive than a new vehicle but the cost in maintenance will be way lower.

Rebuilding an old engine would be cheaper than some of the sensors on a new vehicle. People want their efficiency and amenities/luxury but don't realize how expensive these things are when they start breaking down. $400 for a sensor? Screw that!

 

[Amory]

Kia/Hyundai/Honda/Toyota/Ford/GM SUVs

I can’t say I like that every car looks basically the same now, but we just bought a Pilot and it’s pretty great. Comfy ride decent on gas and hauls all our crap easily

 

[Dural]

It's bananas to me what people spend on cars as a proportion of their income. The median income in the US is like $31,000 and the median car loan is like $45,000. I see people driving cars that cost their annual salary all the time. It's absolutely insane.

I don't think I've ever spent more than 3% of my annual income on a car. Even when I was broke.

Median household income in the US in 2021, the last data I can find, was $71,000.

I do agree that car prices have gotten ridiculous. I'm looking for a van, I have a family of 6, and a used van with the same trim level and miles as the van I bought 6 years ago is ~$10,000 more. The one I have now I bought for $28,000 in 2017, it's a 2015 van, and only had 19,000 miles when I bought it. Nobody seems to want to sell a van with less than 20,000 miles for less than $30,000 today, no matter the trim.

 

[Lasha]

It's bananas to me what people spend on cars as a proportion of their income. The median income in the US is like $31,000 and the median car loan is like $45,000. I see people driving cars that cost their annual salary all the time. It's absolutely insane.

I don't think I've ever spent more than 3% of my annual income on a car. Even when I was broke.

"A longer loan lets you get more car for your car payment". A $45,000 car on a 5 year note "costs" only a little more per month than a $20,000 car on a 3 year note. Americans are conditioned to accept a car payment as a fact of life and dealers have hemmed in on monthly cost rather than total cost of a purchase. Its actually a common psychological tactic used across many industries.

 

[Lasha]

Median household income in the US in 2021, the last data I can find, was $71,000.

I do agree that car prices have gotten ridiculous. I'm looking for a van, I have a family of 6, and a used van with the same trim level and miles as the van I bought 6 years ago is ~$10,000 more. The one I have now I bought for $28,000 in 2017, it's a 2015 van, and only had 19,000 miles when I bought it. Nobody seems to want to sell a van with less than 20,000 miles for less than $30,000 today, no matter the trim.

The average cars per household is near 2 in the US so the amount spent on cars proportional to income is going to be similar either way.

 

[AJUMP23]

US American is the best way to describe the USofA.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Toyota makes all the difference in the world, now Americans are involved in making them, they win NASCAR races and the new Prius has winner written all over it.

 

[SF Kosmo]

"A longer loan lets you get more car for your car payment". A $45,000 car on a 5 year note "costs" only a little more per month than a $20,000 car on a 3 year note. Americans are conditioned to accept a car payment as a fact of life and dealers have hemmed in on monthly cost rather than total cost of a purchase. Its actually a common psychological tactic used across many industries.

And yet it's still money that middle class Americans don't have. Americans have gotten so conditioned to spending all their income on credit payments and rent that they no longer even have savings. They rationalize "I need a new car because it's warrantied if it breaks," because they have no savings. It's truly stupid.

If I can't buy a car cash, I don't. Happy to bank that money every month.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

And yet it's still money that middle class Americans don't have. Americans have gotten so conditioned to spending all their income on credit payments and rent that they no longer even have savings. They rationalize "I need a new car because it's warrantied if it breaks," because they have no savings. It's truly stupid.

If I can't buy a car cash, I don't. Happy to bank that money every month.

Yup.

I can understand people having car loans and mortgages because only a small portion of the population can peel out full cash payment for things like that. And you never know, you hear about absurd US tuition and medical costs which put a black could over someone for the rest of their lives. And if someone is dead broke making bad money, you might need to go on debt to buy stuff for sake of survival.

But assuming someone makes half decent money and doesn't have any crazy crisis, a reasonable mortgage and car loan is all someone really should have.

But I'd bet a lot of people's crazy debts and credit card balances they can never pay off are full of dumbass shit because they saw it at the mall or went Amazon binging.

They assume as long as they got a job to float it, who gives a shit if it takes 20 years to pay of their 22% credit card balance, or 6% BMW loan for a car they shouldnt have. Then they lose their job and go into panic mode. I faintly remember in Canada reports that they the average Canadian only has enough money to float the boat for a month or two before going into more debt. And many said they are pay cheque to pay cheque. Fuck, people most be more broke or bad spenders than I thought.

Even modest savings can be easily had. Dumb down cable tv and cell phone plans to as basic as possible. Probably wont make a difference in usability and the avg person can probably instantly save $50/mth or more. That can be $600-1000/yr. Cut down on coffee and snack shit at Starbucks. Just drink the free coffee at the office. That's probably another $5-10/day. Probably $2000/yr.

Jut these two changes alone are probably $2500/yr in savings (that's like getting a pay increase at work of $3500 pre-tax deductions)

 

[Unknown?]

And yet it's still money that middle class Americans don't have. Americans have gotten so conditioned to spending all their income on credit payments and rent that they no longer even have savings. They rationalize "I need a new car because it's warrantied if it breaks," because they have no savings. It's truly stupid.

If I can't buy a car cash, I don't. Happy to bank that money every month.

Americans lost real money when it was confiscated in 1934 and transitioned into fiat currency in 1971 that always depreciates.

The monetary system encourages debt due to savings losing value every year. At 2% inflation it only takes 36 years for your currency to halve. You may save 100k over the years but will only buy what 50k would have in the past.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Americans lost real money when it was confiscated in 1934 and transitioned into fiat currency in 1971 that always depreciates.

The monetary system encourages debt due to savings losing value every year. At 2% inflation it only takes 36 years for your currency to halve. You may save 100k over the years but will only buy what 50k would have in the past.

I'm not sure what you think happens to the value of cars over time, but they go down faster than inflation...

 

[dem]

This is middle class

 

[Lasha]

Americans lost real money when it was confiscated in 1934 and transitioned into fiat currency in 1971 that always depreciates.

The monetary system encourages debt due to savings losing value every year. At 2% inflation it only takes 36 years for your currency to halve. You may save 100k over the years but will only buy what 50k would have in the past.

You don't hold the 100k in cash though.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Yup.

I can understand people having car loans and mortgages because only a small portion of the population can peel out full cash payment for things like that. And you never know, you hear about absurd US tuition and medical costs which put a black could over someone for the rest of their lives. And if someone is dead broke making bad money, you might need to go on debt to buy stuff for sake of survival.

Even when I was living below the poverty line, I knew not to get into a debt trap. I made a $300 car last 10 years. Wasn't much to look at but it was reliable and easy to do maintenance on.

But assuming someone makes half decent money and doesn't have any crazy crisis, a reasonable mortgage and car loan is all someone really should have.

I guess so. Buying a home hasn't been an option where I live, it's just too inflated (median home around $700,000), and moving isn't an option because the wife can't drive.

I could obviously afford a reasonable car payment (I make over $150K now), but instead I bought a $1700 car 3 years ago that drives beautifully, has nice amenities, and I really have no need for anything newer other than to say I do. Granted that care would probably be like $6000 today with how used car prices exploded but still.

I live a more or less debt free existence other than some student loans I'm still working on. I have credit, and I game up the limit on it to boost my score, so if I ever do want a loan I can get a good rater, but in practice, I never use it for anything I can't pay off in a month or two.

They assume as long as they got a job to float it, who gives a shit if it takes 20 years to pay of their 22% credit card balance, or 6% BMW loan for a car they shouldnt have. Then they lose their job and go into panic mode. I faintly remember in Canada reports that they the average Canadian only has enough money to float the boat for a month or two before going into more debt. And many said they are pay cheque to pay cheque. Fuck, people most be more broke or bad spenders than I thought.

The importance of savings is actually something I learned because I was poor most of my life. When life is unpredictable and income is unstable, it's crucial to have something to get you by in emergencies.

 

[GymWolf]

BMW 3 series or that equivalent based on where I live.

Where the fuck do you live? Dubai?

 

[Unknown?]

I'm not sure what you think happens to the value of cars over time, but they go down faster than inflation...

It's just an explanation for the credit crisis of Americans. It is required to maintain the same level of living and new car prices go up faster than inflation outside of a few economy vehicles. Middle class people want new cars.

You don't hold the 100k in cash though.

It'd be smart if you did though, if you can't hold it you don't own it, especially in a bank.

 

[Lasha]

It's just an explanation for the credit crisis of Americans. It is required to maintain the same level of living and new car prices go up faster than inflation outside of a few economy vehicles. Middle class people want new cars.

It'd be smart if you did though, if you can't hold it you don't own it, especially in a bank.

Keeping cash is stupid. Gold or land is fine if you're paranoid.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

The importance of savings is actually something I learned because I was poor most of my life. When life is unpredictable and income is unstable, it's crucial to have something to get you by in emergencies.

For me and my immediate fam, we learned value of the dollar from our parents who grew up dirt poor and zero english. So typical immigrant talk of go to school and dont blow your money on dumb shit. When I was born our fam was already doing ok. And when I was in grade school I could tell we were already trending to upper middle class. My pafrents didn't buy their first car until age 35 or 36. But it didn't matter. My siblings and I are all still the exact same decades later. Got good money, house, car etc.... put money into investments. Have fun because now we got comfortable livings, but still there's always the focus on getting good value. Does it really matter if we buy steaks are regular price or on sale in our current state? Nope. But we still would rather just wait for it to go on sale to save $7/lb. Its just ingrained in our heads. Spend when you need to.

But if you wanna see a total 180 on spending, you'd love talking to one of my sister in laws. Put it this was as a starter.... 95% of her grocery shopping is from Whole Foods. You can now get a gauge on her spen ding habits for everything else in life.

 

[SF Kosmo]

For me and my immediate fam, we learned value of the dollar from our parents who grew up dirt poor and zero english. So typical immigrant talk of go to school and dont blow your money on dumb shit. When I was born our fam was already doing ok. And when I was in grade school I could tell we were already trending to upper middle class. My pafrents didn't buy their first car until age 35 or 36. But it didn't matter. My siblings and I are all still the exact same decades later. Got good money, house, car etc.... put money into investments. Have fun because now we got comfortable livings, but still there's always the focus on getting good value. Does it really matter if we buy steaks are regular price or on sale in our current state? Nope. But we still would rather just wait for it to go on sale to save $7/lb. Its just ingrained in our heads. Spend when you need to.

But if you wanna see a total 180 on spending, you'd love talking to one of my sister in laws. Put it this was as a starter.... 95% of her grocery shopping is from Whole Foods. You can now get a gauge on her spen ding habits for everything else in life.

Yeah I see that sometimes with my wife, she grew up rich, and over time just never managed to maintain and had no savings.

I grew up inner city poor, in an $11,000 house with no heat. Everything I owned as a kid I got from a flea market or a dumpster. Bargain hunting was a major point of pride and even competition, not just survival.

I went to college and all that, but I was poor much of my adult life too, never had any breaks. It was actually only about 8 years ago I got a low level $20/hr job at a big corporation, but being on that corpo track made all the difference, and I was able to job hop up to big pay increases pretty quickly from there.

 

[Gp1]

At least in Brazil almost every auto maker has a banking branch just to make money financing their vehicle sales.

A good portion of their profits comes from financing, not cars. Even with the obscene markup that auto makers/dealers practice in the Brazilian market.

Makes you wonder, in the current market situation where the sales are low because of the higher interest rates, why they don't give in any discounts whatsoever.

 

[Billbofet]

I have a genuine love of cars, but it is crazy how much people spend on their vehicles here in the US. The moment a couple has one kid or gets a dog, they run out and buy one or two SUV's.
My wife and I never finance our cars. We just plan ahead and pay them off in cash, but most of my friends talk in terms of "My payment is only $500/month" or "My payments only increased by $30"
I think you're likely already in an equity hole when you talk in terms like that - and that's with any purchase.

 

[Unknown?]

At least in Brazil almost every auto maker has a banking branch just to make money financing their vehicle sales.

A good portion of their profits comes from financing, not cars. Even with the obscene markup that auto makers/dealers practice in the Brazilian market.

Makes you wonder, in the current market situation where the sales are low because of the higher interest rates, why they don't give in any discounts whatsoever.

It's disgusting! These financing arms/banks make their profits because they create money from thin air for loans, it didn't exist before that loan, and they want you to pay interest as if they made some sort of sacrifice.

 

[Dural]

"A longer loan lets you get more car for your car payment". A $45,000 car on a 5 year note "costs" only a little more per month than a $20,000 car on a 3 year note. Americans are conditioned to accept a car payment as a fact of life and dealers have hemmed in on monthly cost rather than total cost of a purchase. Its actually a common psychological tactic used across many industries.

I've heard of people getting 10 year loans so they can get the car they want. I feel like there's going to be a crash in the car market like there was in the housing market in 2008, it's one of the reasons I've been trying to put off getting a new van. The markets likely going to be flooded with used inventory real soon.

 

[Vicetrailia]

It's bananas to me what people spend on cars as a proportion of their income. The median income in the US is like $31,000 and the median car loan is like $45,000. I see people driving cars that cost their annual salary all the time. It's absolutely insane.

I don't think I've ever spent more than 3% of my annual income on a car. Even when I was broke.

Cars are monstrously expensive now. I mean if you want an EV you are generally paying out the ass for it.

I don’t wanna spend much on a car either, and what does that leave me with? An old ass car because everything after 2018 is over 20k and I don’t want a Corolla.

I just have to settle with the notion that cars are just here to get me from point A to B and I don’t need these sensor overload vehicles.

 

[Dural]

Cars are monstrously expensive now. I mean if you want an EV you are generally paying out the ass for it.

I don’t wanna spend much on a car either, and what does that leave me with? An old ass car because everything after 2018 is over 20k and I don’t want a Corolla.

I've been looking at the Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid for several months waiting for the right deal. The 2018 started at $39k, the 2023 now starts at $50k. The vehicles are pretty much identical, all its had is a face-lift. This is way more than inflation.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I've heard of people getting 10 year loans so they can get the car they want. I feel like there's going to be a crash in the car market like there was in the housing market in 2008, it's one of the reasons I've been trying to put off getting a new van. The markets likely going to be flooded with used inventory real soon.

And those people maxing out car loans on something they really cant afford are the ones who also bitch and moan about price of homes and mortgage qualifications.

Easiest way to get approved for a mortgage as high as possible is have as big of a net savings you have on file. The difference between monthly income and formally tracked loans on record. A monthly car loan of $500-800 is practically a mini mortgage payment all to itself.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Cars are monstrously expensive now. I mean if you want an EV you are generally paying out the ass for it.

I don’t wanna spend much on a car either, and what does that leave me with? An old ass car because everything after 2018 is over 20k and I don’t want a Corolla.

I just have to settle with the notion that cars are just here to get me from point A to B and I don’t need these sensor overload vehicles.

I usually just get an old car with low miles. They're usually easier to work on if I need to fix anything too. And if they're old enough you can even get classic status and not have to deal with inspection.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

And those people maxing out car loans on something they really cant afford are the ones who also bitch and moan about price of homes and mortgage qualifications.

This seems more like a "I want this to be true" post than a "true"post.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

This seems more like a "I want this to be true" post than a "true"post.

Seems true to me.

You wouldnt believe the number of people at my work who are about 30-35 and have BMWs, Mercedes or Audis, but cant afford anything more than a small condo.

I dont think the average person even knows that mortgage qualifications and amount depend on the banks comparing income vs. debt as a factor. No doubt some people think mortgages depend simply on what their gross salary is. The higher you make the more you get. Not true at all.

 

[Doczu]

Seems true to me.

You wouldnt believe the number of people at my work who are about 30-35 and have BMWs, Mercedes or Audis, but cant afford anything more than a small condo.

Same here. People buy (used) premium cars and when even the most basic maintenance has to happen they start to moan how expensive everything is.
And then i'm like "you bought a BMW with an R6 engine, you should have known how much it cost to change the timing belt on that thing". And that is just maintenance, if the gearbox breaks down or you need some engine repairs they just sit down and cry