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[JonnyBigBoss]

Final Fantasy VII. It was captivating beginning to end.

 

[Regulus Tera]

To his credit, when Cecil was a DKnight, he was a decent character. His objectives, his ideals, and his path to redemption made sense. But when he class-changed into a Paladin, he became a shell of that character to me, incapable of leading because he makes so many mistakes and no one ever calls him out for it because he's somehow repented for all of his sins and is implicitly being treated as someone who shouldn't be held accountable for his lack of leadership and lack of making spur-of-the-moment decisions. It's absolutely grating.

I can no longer stand that character.

You are not supposed to think about that with all the fawning of Rosa and Rydia over you. Oh Cecil, nothing bad will ever happen to me as long as I can be your waifu.

Hellllllll no.

Okay.

 

[CorvoSol]

I enjoy Cecil as a symbol more than a character. Frankly, the biggest let-down of the entirety of TAY is that it utterly wastes the good ideas it had on Kain instead of Cecil.

If Cecil had legitimately fallen to evil, or had been separated into Dark and Light Cecil like he was in the True Moon, and we'd gotten to see Dark Cecil's speech to Golbez anyway, it would've rocked so hard.

Still, I can't hate Cecil because he, too, ships Firion x Lightning.

It is just as convoluted, but to me, FFXIII had things happen that literally did not make sense or contradicted itself. And characters did things for reasons I don't know. As crazy and twisty as FFXIII-2 is, most character motives make sense, and there is at least a plot that, although a bit zany at times, can have its pieces glued together.

It would've been better as its own story about Noel and Caius. The only good thing about it's connection to XIII is 1) the meltdowns and 2) Stupid Serah via Live Trigger.

 

[youngwerther]

"lol, video games can't have stories in the league of classic lit"

Kefka's transformation is a masterwork of character development and story pacing. This character changes everything as he rises in power, and remains compelling while doing it. Not to mention that the world he inhabits is incredibly interesting and untypical of the jRPG genre, making magic a taboo and showing what happens to a fantasy world that once embraced magic once it turns on it. It's not a hyperbolic statement. There is plenty of classic literature that FF VI doesn't hold a candle to, but there is plenty it could stand toe to toe with in written form.

Have you ever actually read a book before?

Calling Kefka's transformation a "masterwork of character development" is hilarious and I don't think you realize it.

I think it's funny how the elusive "classic literature" always gets mentioned as some type of legitimizing agent in these types of conversations.
It's sad.

 

[Tess3ract]

Holy God yes! 13-2 is ten times the crap that 13 was. "Hey so how does this work?" "PARADOX." "How about this?" "THE GODDESS." "And this?" "PARADOX GODDESS." "And Chocolina?" UGH UGH UGH.

Nevermind the shit ending that game pulled. 1)

Spoiler

Serah shouldn't be dead. She's supposed to die because you change the future, except YOU DON'T CHANGE THE FUTURE. Cocoon still falls. And more to the point, if it was killing Caius that influenced the new future, which it must be because Serah doesn't short-circuit until after Caius' death, then what did killing Caius OUTSIDE OF TIME do to change that? If it was leading him away from Cocoon, why didn't she short out in Valhalla? 2) Why the fuck did Cocoon fall? It was held in place by a pillar of Crystal that had only been there for 500 years. Crystal does NOT erode that fast. And it can't be that the exterior of Cocoon had eroded in the Crystal's grasp, because that'd been there for 13,000 years, x of which it had been completely sealed and so no Fal'Cie inside could do anything to it and no Fal'Cie outside dared try. YOU SPEND THE WHOLE DAMN GAME STOPPING THE THING FROM FALLING AND OOOPS IT FALLS ANYWAY. 3) Chocolina. Fuck that explanation. 4)Noel didn't kill Caius and him inevitably angsting about it in the next game is gonna suck hard. Caius killed himself. The only reason Noel's hands were on the sword was to stop Caius. 5) Why the fuck doesn't Caius kill himself sooner then? 6)PARADOXES.

I hate XIII-2's plot SO MUCH.

Spoiler

1. They actually did change the future, then right at the end of the game the future changed again, killing serah because it forced her curse to activate. Basically, Caius had 1000 years to set all this shit up before anyone was able to to do anything, and made sure everything worked out in his favor. His entire training of Noel? It was to get him to kill him at that specific time. By doing this, chaos would be unlocked. However he can't kill himself, he's immortal. It has to transfer. I'm guessing that because Etro was already half dead by fucking up the timeline, stabbing the heart killed her instead of doing a proper transfer.
2. IF YOU PLAYED THE SIDEQUESTS or even the fucking game, you learn that there was a specific monster setup by caius to throw slimes from one time period into another, which congealed into a Slime thing that deteriorates the crystal little by little. That and the crushing pressure of a fucking moon on it.
3. You mad. It makes sense.
4. He's not going to angst about it, he wont even probably be mentioned because the next game is all about lightning. Caius basically got everything he wanted in the game.
5. because he can't kill himself.
6. paradoxes own bro.

MORE INFO

Spoiler

Caius is alive in the secret ending because EVERYONE is alive in the ending. Near the end it's revealed that Yeul's constant reincarnation was due to going to Valhalla when she died like everyone else, but instead of moving on or staying there or whatever happens normally she decides to go back and is reincarnated as another version of herself. Caius' idea to break this cycle is to make EVERYWHERE Valhalla by breaking time. Once that happens people don't go anywhere when they die, they just stick around. No death, no life, just existence. You can find a log of sorts in the fake town if you revisit it after the game which is quite obviously from Serah after she dies, but she's clearly still around to make it.

You meet more than one Caius during the game but the only one who really matters is the one at the very end. That guy has had thousands of years to come up with the absolute perfect plan, forever, to blow up time by using Noel (who spent his entire life until the events of the game getting "trained" by Caius just for this purpose) to kill him at exactly the right time and place in order to unleash chaos into the real world. The specifics pretty much escape me now but they were never really that clear to begin with, I think.

 

[Ryu bogard]

FF6 had the best storyline. I also liked the story in 10.

 

[Crash Station]

Melodrama is not reserved for just angst. I guess a better word for it would be ham.

Actually hold on there was still plenty fucking melodrama. Caius was Sephiroth on steroids.

There is nothing wrong with ham.

That being said, I probably wouldn't say XIII-2 has a good story. If you disagree, more power to you.

 

[Regulus Tera]

There is nothing wrong with ham.

There is everything wrong with ham when the work is asking me to be deeply affected by the events being hammed.

 

[prwxv3]

FF9 until the very end

 

[CorvoSol]

Have you ever actually read a book before?

Calling Kefka's transformation a "masterwork of character development" is hilarious and I don't think you realize it.

I wouldn't say Kefka transformed much at all. He's fairly consistent until the end, when he takes his character to its inevitable extremes.

That said, the final battle is something else. Kefka's battle mirroring the Divine Comedy was brilliant. You fight the horrific first form, move through the populous second form, ascend to the third tier where a Christ-like Kefka is imitating the Pieta with his own Madonna, and then, in the end, the entire battle culminates in the player's encounter with God, who is, to their horror, Kefka.

It's no Milton or Dante, but it pays homage to them in an awesome way.

 

[AwShucks]

FF7 is my favorite Final Fantasy, but I give the edge in story to Tactics. I never ever get tired of that story no matter how many times I play it.

 

[Loona]

I'm kind of shocked how FF has failed to have a "world shattering" moment ever again.

FF14 would like to have a word with you

All these mentions of ff11 makes me feel im missing out something big.

Most people are - can't blame them for not committing to an MMO, but the work put into its setting alone, not even going into the several individual and interconnected stories, is pretty staggering, and has supported a lot of good storytelling over the years.

I like to provide these glimpses of it from a quest that has you travelling through the central continents in the game: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/The_Collective_Annals_of_Gwynham_and_Enid_Ironheart

For the amount of detail on more specific elements of the game, i like the Wildlife Files like this one: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Atelloune's_Wildlife_Files/Tracking_the_Elusive_Beast

The amount of things you can keep noticing and discovering about the game never really ceases to amaze...

Someone actually bothered to make videos of the major mission lines, as well as a few connected quests, which should help satisfy some curiosity until some far-off future when it might get remade as a single player game (5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 are in line first, however, and since that includes 7, that far off future might be after the heat death of the Universe): http://ffxicutscenes.blogspot.pt/

 

[Crash Station]

There is everything wrong with ham when the work is asking me to be deeply affected by the events being hammed.

You saying you aren't affected by JoJo? The fuck, dude.

I think it's funny how the elusive "classic literature" always gets mentioned as some type of legitimizing agent in these types of conversations.
It's sad.

Yeah, especially when classic literature is boring as hell. No need to compare the two at all.

 

[Riposte]

In terms of storyline, Wings of the Goddess > Chains of Promathia (though the later was much funner with level caps which WotG never had)

Final Fantasy XIV is shaping up to be better than XI on a whole. The world is already more detailed and has higher verisimilitude. It also wins points for being a Final Fantasy where sex and murder not hidden.

 

[PK Gaming]

IX

Just IX

 

[CorvoSol]

Spoiler

1. They actually did change the future, then right at the end of the game the future changed again, killing serah because it forced her curse to activate. Basically, Caius had 1000 years to set all this shit up before anyone was able to to do anything, and made sure everything worked out in his favor. His entire training of Noel? It was to get him to kill him at that specific time. By doing this, chaos would be unlocked. However he can't kill himself, he's immortal. It has to transfer. I'm guessing that because Etro was already half dead by fucking up the timeline, stabbing the heart killed her instead of doing a proper transfer.
2. IF YOU PLAYED THE SIDEQUESTS or even the fucking game, you learn that there was a specific monster setup by caius to throw slimes from one time period into another, which congealed into a Slime thing that deteriorates the crystal little by little. That and the crushing pressure of a fucking moon on it.
3. You mad. It makes sense.
4. He's not going to angst about it, he wont even probably be mentioned because the next game is all about lightning. Caius basically got everything he wanted in the game.
5. because he can't kill himself.
6. paradoxes own bro.

MORE INFO

Spoiler

Caius is alive in the secret ending because EVERYONE is alive in the ending. Near the end it's revealed that Yeul's constant reincarnation was due to going to Valhalla when she died like everyone else, but instead of moving on or staying there or whatever happens normally she decides to go back and is reincarnated as another version of herself. Caius' idea to break this cycle is to make EVERYWHERE Valhalla by breaking time. Once that happens people don't go anywhere when they die, they just stick around. No death, no life, just existence. You can find a log of sorts in the fake town if you revisit it after the game which is quite obviously from Serah after she dies, but she's clearly still around to make it.

You meet more than one Caius during the game but the only one who really matters is the one at the very end. That guy has had thousands of years to come up with the absolute perfect plan, forever, to blow up time by using Noel (who spent his entire life until the events of the game getting "trained" by Caius just for this purpose) to kill him at exactly the right time and place in order to unleash chaos into the real world. The specifics pretty much escape me now but they were never really that clear to begin with, I think.

3. HOW DOES IT MAKE SENSE NO IT DOESN'T IT'S JUST "OOOOOH A PARADOX DID IT!!" THAT MAKES NO SENSE.
5.

Spoiler

Caius DOES kill himself, though. To say that Noel killed him is to ignore what clearly happens on the screen, which is Caius GRABBING NOEL'S SWORD AND SHOVING IT INTO HIS OWN HEART. Noel's actively trying to stop him the entire time. This would be like saying that Aerith killed herself by sitting where Sephiroth could stab her. It's simply not true.

 

[Regulus Tera]

You saying you aren't affected by JoJo? The fuck, dude.

I love Jojo! It makes me feel like doing push-ups and eating steak. That doesn't mean I hold it as a paragon of good writing, though.

Never mind that the characters in Jojo are not obnoxious to the extreme. It's also a show/manga that appeals to basic human feelings so it's easy to get engrossed by the larger-than-life themes of bravery and all that crap and not the boohoo my boyfriend is in another timeline.

 

[PK Gaming]

oh and anyone who mentions FFX-2 gets a perma ban via boot to the ass by yours truly

why? because shut up

shut up is why

(heh)

 

[youngwerther]

I wouldn't say Kefka transformed much at all. He's fairly consistent until the end, when he takes his character to its inevitable extremes.

That said, the final battle is something else. Kefka's battle mirroring the Divine Comedy was brilliant. You fight the horrific first form, move through the populous second form, ascend to the third tier where a Christ-like Kefka is imitating the Pieta with his own Madonna, and then, in the end, the entire battle culminates in the player's encounter with God, who is, to their horror, Kefka.

It's no Milton or Dante, but it pays homage to them in an awesome way.

I suppose we have different definitions of "brilliant".
It was cool but was thoroughly standard-fare.

Yeah, especially when classic literature is boring as hell. No need to compare the two at all.

I dunno, painting "classic literature" with a broad brush, whether positively or negatively, is kind of a stupid statement.
That's the point I was making.

 

[Dark Schala]

You are not supposed to think about that with all the fawning of Rosa and Rydia over you. Oh Cecil, nothing bad will ever happen to me as long as I can be your waifu.

It doesn't mean much when one of them is boring as hell and becomes nonexistent after her purpose is served, and the other one's a little kid who was rapidly aged to be a potential love interest for someone else.

Even then, Cecil can't manage to protect anyone. Well, unless his auto-cover AI tells him to.

I enjoy Cecil as a symbol more than a character. Frankly, the biggest let-down of the entirety of TAY is that it utterly wastes the good ideas it had on Kain instead of Cecil.

If Cecil had legitimately fallen to evil, or had been separated into Dark and Light Cecil like he was in the True Moon, and we'd gotten to see Dark Cecil's speech to Golbez anyway, it would've rocked so hard.

Actually, and I'm not saying this because Kain's one of the very few FF4 characters I like, I'm glad FF4 focused on him somewhat. Kain needed to find a way to redeem himself somehow like Cecil did, which is what FF4 left off from. But noooo, we're repeating parts of FF4's arc in TAY because Cecil's sick and his stats are garbage.

Still, I can't hate Cecil because he, too, ships Firion x Lightning.

Oh, I bet Toriyama loved that.

 

[Crash Station]

I love Jojo! It makes me feel like doing push-ups and eating steak. That doesn't mean I hold it as a paragon of good writing, though.

Never mind that the characters in Jojo are not obnoxious to the extreme. It's a show/manga that appeals to basic human feelings.

The term "good writing" should be used contextually IMO. JoJo does what it sets out to accomplish.

Also, there were at least 2 scenes in part 3 that made me cry. Hope the anime gets that far (ignoring the fact it already has an anime).

 

[Tess3ract]

3. HOW DOES IT MAKE SENSE NO IT DOESN'T IT'S JUST "OOOOOH A PARADOX DID IT!!" THAT MAKES NO SENSE.
5.

Spoiler

Caius DOES kill himself, though. To say that Noel killed him is to ignore what clearly happens on the screen, which is Caius GRABBING NOEL'S SWORD AND SHOVING IT INTO HIS OWN HEART. Noel's actively trying to stop him the entire time. This would be like saying that Aerith killed herself by sitting where Sephiroth could stab her. It's simply not true.

3. The entire fucking game was pretty much "hey weird shit is happening, really fucking weird shit because of paradoxes" and you're saying it's not likely for chocolina to be around?

Did you miss the OTHER chocolina mystic lady who would give you fragment skills? Did you miss the Colosseum or Serendipity that existed out of a paradox?

5. I get what you're saying, but it still counts because noel was holding onto the sword.

 

[Crash Station]

I dunno, painting "classic literature" with a broad brush, whether positively or negatively, is kind of a stupid statement.
That's the point I was making.

Yeah, I figured. I was just being a jerk there.

Again, I think this kind of stuff should be looked at contextually. Not only in terms of genre and all that fun stuff, but also in the viewer/reader/player itself. I think the wide array of opinions in this thread on the matter show both that different people look for different things in stories, and that their interpretations can color their viewpoint (author intent or not).

That being said, I don't really think we should be comparing Final Fantasy to classic literature, and I don't mean in terms of quality. So yeah, I agree there.

Edit: And it looks like Secret Fawful was just saying FF6 is timeless, which I do agree with. Obviously there will be arguments about its quality, but I do think it's something that can be enjoyed for years to come.

 

[Secret Fawful]

I wouldn't say Kefka transformed much at all. He's fairly consistent until the end, when he takes his character to its inevitable extremes.

That said, the final battle is something else. Kefka's battle mirroring the Divine Comedy was brilliant. You fight the horrific first form, move through the populous second form, ascend to the third tier where a Christ-like Kefka is imitating the Pieta with his own Madonna, and then, in the end, the entire battle culminates in the player's encounter with God, who is, to their horror, Kefka.

It's no Milton or Dante, but it pays homage to them in an awesome way.

This is more or less what I mean, but I am not good at going into the details. Not saying Corvo is agreeing with me. And yes, I've read a book. I don't get the problem with painting classic lit with a broad brush. It's a category. I'm not saying FFVI is on equal footing with or better than every classic story ever, I'm saying that like a classic story, it can stand the test of time. There are several games I think fit into this idea. I think it's a fair comparison because so many developers are trying to take storytelling in games to that level anyway.

 

[Loona]

Final Fantasy XIV is shaping up to be better than XI on a whole. The world is already more detailed and has higher verisimilitude. It also wins points for being a Final Fantasy where sex and murder not hidden.

I was surprised with the amount of backstory that could be revealed as you progressed in the Monk quests (the quest giver was a scholar that loved the sound of his voice), but the copy-paste tendencies of the world didn't help its plausibility - although on the other hand it lacked that almost transparent 3-way symmetry between the 3 cities and their surrounding areas around Jeuno, which made it feel a bit more organic (on the other hand, for 1.0 it made U'l'dah the city of choice for almost everything, which I hope they address).

I do love that NPCs curse like sailors and address sex as often as they do (mostly when and where it seems fitting), since it makes the whole thing feel like a living society.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

I enjoyed FFX the most for its story, but I haven't played them all. Still need to play 6, 8, and 9, ignoring the MMOs. And 3, I suppose, but as far as I know it's not available on any system I own. I think. Maybe DS? Low priority, either way.

Oh, I also haven't played XIII-2, although I enjoyed XIII.

 

[Regulus Tera]

oh and anyone who mentions FFX-2 gets a perma ban via boot to the ass by yours truly

why? because shut up

shut up is why

The perfect ending undoes the one good thing about FFX's plot. Plus lol Toriyama.

It doesn't mean much when one of them is boring as hell and becomes nonexistent after her purpose is served, and the other one's a little kid who was rapidly aged to be a potential love interest for someone else.

Even then, Cecil can't manage to protect anyone.

Point is that he stops being a character and becomes a self-insert for the player to feel badarse and loved. Like a harem protagonist. Same thing happens to Cloud as soon as he sorts his issues out.

The term "good writing" should be used contextually IMO. JoJo does what it sets out to accomplish.

Maybe I'm too old for this shit then. I personally don't find the characters in FFXIII-2 to be even believable human beings, let alone sympathetic.

Also, there were at least 2 scenes in part 3 that made me cry. Hope the anime gets that far (ignoring the fact it already has an anime).

I try not to rant on Jojo too much because I am only familiarised with the franchise through the anime.

 

[Crash Station]

Maybe I'm too old for this shit then. I personally don't find the characters in FFXIII-2 to be even believable human beings, let alone sympathetic.

I actually agree with you there (though I do like Noel). In fact, I don't even know why I quoted you in the first place. Maybe it's just because I like ham (with eggs).

 

[Sanjuro]

6, 7, and 9 are the only notable entries in the series.

Never played 12. Hear good things though.

 

[KojiKnight]

FF14 would like to have a word with you



Most people are - can't blame them for not committing to an MMO, but the work put into its setting alone, not even going into the several individual and interconnected stories, is pretty staggering, and has supported a lot of good storytelling over the years.

I like to provide these glimpses of it from a quest that has you travelling through the central continents in the game: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/The_Collective_Annals_of_Gwynham_and_Enid_Ironheart

For the amount of detail on more specific elements of the game, i like the Wildlife Files like this one: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Atelloune's_Wildlife_Files/Tracking_the_Elusive_Beast

The amount of things you can keep noticing and discovering about the game never really ceases to amaze...

Someone actually bothered to make videos of the major mission lines, as well as a few connected quests, which should help satisfy some curiosity until some far-off future when it might get remade as a single player game (5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 are in line first, however, and since that includes 7, that far off future might be after the heat death of the Universe): http://ffxicutscenes.blogspot.pt/

I'm not surprised, most of the FF11 story was done or with help by Kato of CT/CC fame... A lot of people hate on him because they didn't like how CC ended up, but he's a good writer.

 

[RedSwirl]

Get yourself a copy of FF6 advance. The music isn't as good as the SNES version, but the additional retranslation makes it worth it. Even if you don't consider it the best (a lot of people don't) almost everyone at least puts it in their top 3-4.

I've been sitting on a copy since 2006. Just haven't gotten around to it. I only recently beat FF4 so I've got a ways to go.

 

[Secret Fawful]

Edit: And it looks like Secret Fawful was just saying FF6 is timeless, which I do agree with. Obviously there will be arguments about its quality, but I do think it's something that can be enjoyed for years to come.

Yes. To me classic literature is defined as literature that is timeless and deserves to be. I'm not a lit student, so my definition isn't going to be the same as someone who is, so I understand the disconnect. Some games are timeless for their stories, and FF 6 is one for me. I jumped the gun on saying such a broad thing, but sometimes you just have to say it and explain it as people voice their criticism.

 

[Error]

Final Fantasy VI imo.

 

[The Praiseworthy]

And nothing come even close to it... Dear god FFVII is epic!

 

[Aeana]

I'm not surprised, most of the FF11 story was done or with help by Kato of CT/CC fame... A lot of people hate on him because they didn't like how CC ended up, but he's a good writer.

I'm pretty sure that outside of the 3 special add-on stories, Kato stopped with FF11 after Zilart.

 

[hypostatic]

IX, easily.

 

[Dark Schala]

Point is that he stops being a character and becomes a self-insert for the player to feel badarse and loved. Like a harem protagonist. Same thing happens to Cloud as soon as he sorts his issues out.

FF needs a social link/Private Action system and then things would be complete.

Maybe I'm too old for this shit then. I personally don't find the characters in FFXIII-2 to be even believable human beings, let alone sympathetic.

You never talked and laughed! You kept yelling at her. "This the worst birthday ever, Serah. Why are you marrying this fuckup, Serah? Blahblahblahblahblah, Serah?"

 

[Durask]

Hm, wonder if I am the only one who thought FF6 was nothing special.

Yes, it was OK but I didn't think there was anything particularly _great_ about it. I think people just use their nostalgia colored glasses too much.

For me, it is FFX by a long shot, then FF7 (although a mess)
I liked FF12 as well.

Do we count FF Tactics here?

 

[Regulus Tera]

FF needs a social link/Private Action system and then things would be complete.

dat UmaroXMog OTP

You never talked and laughed! You kept yelling at her. "This the worst birthday ever, Serah. Why are you marrying this fuckup, Serah? Blahblahblahblahblah, Serah?"

when is their next LP gonna be up i need it nao

 

[Esura]

FFIV, FFVII, FFX, FFX-2, FFXIII, and FFXIII-2 are the FFs with my favorite characters and plot (would of added FFVI but the Final Dungeon just has to be lame and force me to use three parties....) but FFIV remains the best out of all of them. I just can't get over how a RPG from 1991 can have characters and a story so interesting like this game. It blows my mind. You got people like the badass Cecil, the girl stealin' Kain, the adorable Rydia, the fear instilling badass villain Golbez, my bro Tellah, big daddy Cid, Phil and Lil...I mean Palom and Porom, and all these other cats and they are all just these awesome characters in a timeless adventure that never grows old. No wonder Square keeps re-releasing this and remaking it and all that. You got action, betrayal, the romance, the sacrifices, the drama. I just can't believe this. FFIV is like...man. I probably would of said FFVII if it wasn't for me picking up FFIV Advance from the flea market a few years ago.

FFIV should get it's own anime series. Its that good. I'm getting goosebumps thinking about this.

 

[Einherjar]

FFXIII! Lightning? Snow? Hope!? So awe inspiring, how could anyone write a worse story?

Serious response: Tactics

Not a fan of the early 4 heroes / crystal storyline, or any save the world storyline really.

Eight was okay, but the dreams of being his dad and going after Seifer's sloppy seconds the whole game was kind of off-putting.

X was kind of convoluted for me, the whole dream-world underwater soccer player thing followed by whatever was happening in FFX-2 didn't really draw me in.

XII I just couldn't stand Vaan, could have been so much better.

 

[Aeana]

Hm, wonder if I am the only one who thought FF6 was nothing special.

Yes, it was OK but I didn't think there was anything particularly _great_ about it. I think people just use their nostalgia colored glasses too much.

For me, it is FFX by a long shot, then FF7 (although a mess)
I liked FF12 as well.

Do we count FF Tactics here?

I dunno why people are so quick to blame "nostalgia goggles" whenever they happen to have a differing opinion about an older game. Plenty of people have picked up the game for the first time within the last couple of years and loved it too. Plenty of people didn't like it when it was new. It seems like a convient way to make yourself feel better about having a differing opinion. Truth is, it's okay to feel differently from other people; you don't need an excuse, and you don't need to try to belittle people who feel differently in the process by insinuating that their feelings are somehow not legitimate, either.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

X

-Tidus' struggle to fit into a foreign world/daddy issues
-The warring religious Guado against the machine-using Albed
-Yuna's half Albed/half Guado genetics
-Wakka's racism(?)/hatred against the Albed (not knowing Yuna is half)
-Seymore, that fucking evil cunt. God, the marriage rescue scene is so bad-ass
-Kihlmari Ronso's rilvary with his two older brothers and their eventual face off.
-Auron Auron Auron Auron Auron Auron Auron Auron Auron Auron
-The constant cycle of devastation in a world of prayer and pilgrimage to stave off Sin.

The list goes on.

There's just so many layers to such a vast and incredible world that build on eachother so well, I find it hard to believe so many people hate it for some spotty translation and a PURPOSELY awkward laugh scene. 12 may have been the best written, but I couldn't give less of a fuck for the characters/world. So then what's the point?

 

[DonMigs85]

FFVI for me.

 

[Esura]

FFXIII! Lightning? Snow? Hope!? So awe inspiring, how could anyone write a worse story?

Serious response: Tactics

Not a fan of the early 4 heroes / crystal storyline, or any save the world storyline really.

Eight was okay, but the dreams of being his dad and going after Seifer's sloppy seconds the whole game was kind of off-putting.

X was kind of convoluted for me, the whole dream-world underwater soccer player thing followed by whatever was happening in FFX-2 didn't really draw me in.

XII I just couldn't stand Vaan, could have been so much better.

But you are pretty much saving the world in Tactics though.

 

[CorvoSol]

I suppose we have different definitions of "brilliant".
It was cool but was thoroughly standard-fare.

How so? I don't know of many other Final Fantasies that referenced classical Italian poetry for their final battle. And it can't be standard fare that he became God, because that wasn't a big thing either in JRPGs at the time. The only other game that does that in the SNES era that I can name is Breath of Fire II, and it's final boss is outed as a demon, whereas Kefka flat out is a God.

It doesn't mean much when one of them is boring as hell and becomes nonexistent after her purpose is served, and the other one's a little kid who was rapidly aged to be a potential love interest for someone else.

Even then, Cecil can't manage to protect anyone. Well, unless his auto-cover AI tells him to.


Actually, and I'm not saying this because Kain's one of the very few FF4 characters I like, I'm glad FF4 focused on him somewhat. Kain needed to find a way to redeem himself somehow like Cecil did, which is what FF4 left off from. But noooo, we're repeating parts of FF4's arc in TAY because Cecil's sick and his stats are garbage.


Oh, I bet Toriyama loved that.

You wound me. I don't want anything that brings him happiness.

3. The entire fucking game was pretty much "hey weird shit is happening, really fucking weird shit because of paradoxes" and you're saying it's not likely for chocolina to be around?

Did you miss the OTHER chocolina mystic lady who would give you fragment skills? Did you miss the Colosseum or Serendipity that existed out of a paradox?

5. I get what you're saying, but it still counts because noel was holding onto the sword.

And how does that excuse the bullshit at all? I already said that using paradoxes is bullshit, AND there are other Chocowomen all over the place, but rather than saying "Hey Chocowomen are an extratemporal species" which I could've taken, they have to make up the worst and creepiest excuse in the series:

Spoiler

paradoxes made the chocobo in Sazh's fro, WHICH IS PRESENT IN THAT SCENE, into Chocolina. WTF.

In a game full of bad plot points, it STILL stood out as terrible.

5. Holding onto a weapon to try and save someone's life isn't the same as killing them in any way at all. This is like claiming that holding someone's hand as they slide off a cliff and having them slip out of your fingers is the same as letting go. It's especially egregious because XIII makes a POINT of absolving Snow of the blame for Hope's mother's death because he couldn't save her in spite of his efforts. Yet somehow Noel is to blame for Caius' death under the exact same circumstances?

This is the problem with XIII-2's plot: It undermines everything XIII's plot does. The ending completely invalidates the player's efforts for TWO GAMES, and XIII-2 completely changes and undermines so much of XIII that it's absurd.

FFXIII! Lightning? Snow? Hope!? So awe inspiring, how could anyone write a worse story?

Serious response: Tactics

Not a fan of the early 4 heroes / crystal storyline, or any save the world storyline really.

Eight was okay, but the dreams of being his dad and going after Seifer's sloppy seconds the whole game was kind of off-putting.

X was kind of convoluted for me, the whole dream-world underwater soccer player thing followed by whatever was happening in FFX-2 didn't really draw me in.

XII I just couldn't stand Vaan, could have been so much better.

But Tactics is the 4 heroes gathering crystals to save the world storyline. That's the Zodiac Brave Story. 13 heroes with crystals save the world. Ramza, Agrias, Alma, Cid, Meliadoul, Beowulf, Reis, Mustadio, Rapha, Marach, Cloud/Ladd, Balthier/Alicia, Luso/Lavian are in possession of all 13 Zodiac stones at the game's ending, and Ramza, like the original hero from the original ZBS defeats the demon lord.

Gathering crystals and saving the world is Tactics.

 

[The Return of]

Out of the main series, I think FF10 truthfully has the best storyline, but it doesn't have the nowhere near the best execution in the main series.

 

[Seda]

X

-Tidus' struggle to fit into a foreign world/daddy issues
-The warring religious Guado against the machine-using Albed
-Yuna's half Albed/half Guado genetics
-Wakka's racism(?)/hatred against the Albed (not knowing Yuna is half)
-Seymore, that fucking evil cunt. God, the marriage rescue scene is so bad-ass
-Kihlmari Ronso's rilvary with his two older brothers and their eventual face off.
-Auron Auron Auron Auron Auron Auron Auron Auron Auron Auron
-The constant cycle of devastation in a world of prayer and pilgrimage to stave off Sin.

The list goes on.

There's just so many layers to such a vast and incredible world that build on eachother so well, I find it hard to believe so many people hate it for some spotty translation and a PURPOSELY awkward laugh scene. 12 may have been the best written, but I couldn't give less of a fuck for the characters/world. So then what's the point?

I like this post. I really like how they fitted these underlying personal character stories into the overarching plot. I usually don't really play games for story elements, but I really liked FFX in that regard.

 

[Dark Schala]

when is their next LP gonna be up i need it nao

Kaz and medibot have been streaming Paper Mario: TTYD for a while now. I kept wondering if I should've posted it in the LP thread.

Kaz is still in the middle of his Second Sight LP. Dunno if I should keep bumping the thread for new episodes of that and the ongoing Supergreatfriend LP. I wish they'd do Crystal Chronicles next while they still have the setup for it. Or Sonic 4: Episode II for the dying ducks.

my bro Tellah

Tellah is so fantastic that his stats go down when he levels up.

 

[Nightstick11]

Final Fantasy VI is the best, and it is crying out for a remake.

FFX was also really good.

FFVIII is the worst as soon as orphanage enters the mix.