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[SneakyStephan]

I wouldn't go that far, and you probably know I didn't mean it like that. But the game certainly attracts those sorts of people to it, and being a multiplayer game the community is extremely important.

Maybe Smite is just as bad, but I find the atmosphere in Dota2 just kind of not so great a lot of the time. Because of people like SneakyStephan.

Are you for real? I explained in great detail why I think the additional features like stacking, creep blocking, denies etc make the game better than it would be without them(variety, strategy, more opportunities to predict/read what other players are doing) and you ignore all that and just dismiss me as some elitist who apparently greatly offends you by enjoying 'complexity' in a game like dota.

I've been bringing up reasoning and trying to make points around it, you just waddle in here and personally insult me..

Clearly I am the problem here and in dota...

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Are you for real? I explained in great detail why I think the additional features like stacking, creep blocking, denies etc make the game better than it would be without them(variety, strategy, more opportunities to predict/read what other players are doing) and you ignore all that and just dismiss me as some elitist who apparently greatly offends you by enjoying 'complexity' in a game like dota.

I've been bringing up reasoning and trying to make points around it, you just waddle in here and personally insult me..

Clearly I am the problem here and in dota...

Erm, YOU think that those 'features' make a game better. Some people just don't care for creep blocking/denies/etc. They don't make the game better, but some people might like that kinda stuff.

 

[CornBurrito]

Are you for real? I explained in great detail why I think the additional features like stacking, creep blocking, denies etc make the game better than it would be without them(variety, strategy, more opportunities to predict/read what other players are doing) and you ignore all that and just dismiss me as some elitist who apparently greatly offends you by enjoying 'complexity' in a game like dota.

I've been bringing up reasoning and trying to make points around it, you just waddle in here and personally insult me..

Clearly I am the problem here and in dota...

Yes, because you don't describe why you think those details make the game more fun for you. You insist that those details make the game objectively better and that anyone who can't see this is stupid/wrong/bad/dumb/sheeple/etc...

Your attitude is the problem. Not you liking Dota more. You are an elitist. I'm not the only one who thinks so.

 

[rocK`]

really sad how HoN got overshadowed.

easily the most complex, engine is tight/timing is crisper. anyone who's played both knows dota 2 is a slowed down version of hon.

 

[SneakyStephan]

Yes, because you don't describe why you think those details make the game more fun for you. You insist that those details make the game objectively better and that anyone who can't see this is stupid/wrong/bad/dumb/sheeple/etc...

Your attitude is the problem. Not you liking Dota more. You are an elitist. I'm not the only one who thinks so.

How does stripping out 90 percent of the learning curve and variety make something better.
Fighting over stacks (or the decision to leave your carry alone in lane to go stack/get a rune) ,runes, denying farm to slow down item progression vs harrassing hero for kills/slowing exp vs focussing on your own farm, controlling lane equilibrium etc etc add nearly infinite variety and strategic depth to the game.

They create situations for the player to read and react to. They also give you a reason to venture out and scout the map beyond trying to gank an enemy.

When you strip out everything that makes a moba unique you're just left with a team vs team combat game with poor combat mechanics , like why would you ever want to play right click+wow style abilities in a multiplayer game over mp games with far superior gameplay and controls like team fortress or cs or a sports game

That's imo the big flaw of games like heroes of the storm, moba combat mechanics are nowhere near good enough to prop up a game, you need everything else around them to make it worth playing. Without them it just becomes a really shitty arcade game.

Quake would not be a better game with strafejumping , pick ups (zone control) and projectile weapons stripped out of it. It would be easier, it would also be a lot less interesting and fun.

k

 

[Holden]

really sad how HoN got overshadowed.

easily the most complex, engine is tight/timing is crisper. anyone who's played both knows dota 2 is a slowed down version of hon.

hon is ugly

and i heard alot bad things about the balance of the new heroes

 

[Edwardo]

really sad how HoN got overshadowed.

easily the most complex, engine is tight/timing is crisper. anyone who's played both knows dota 2 is a slowed down version of hon.

Lol yea when hon came out I always called it dota on roids.

 

[NAPK1NS]

Most Competitive - Dota 2

Most Complex - Dota 2

Easiest - Heroes of the Storm

Most Fun - Dota 2

The winner.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Erm, YOU think that those 'features' make a game better. Some people just don't care for creep blocking/denies/etc. They don't make the game better, but some people might like that kinda stuff.

There really isn't a way to make a game universally better. It comes down to personal preference. I am one of those people who do like that kind of stuff, so for me, it definitely makes the game better. I can totally see how it is something that some people wouldn't be down with, but for me the different layers of strategy are what make Dota, Dota. LoL is more focused on the actual mechanics of combat. Which is cool. Flashy plays are cool. It's like basketball in that way.

I'm a baseball guy. I don't just enjoy the home runs, I appreciate the foul ball last at bat that set up the home run also. I totally understand why some people think that baseball is super boring. But for me it has a combination of strategy played out over a long term, unbelievably detailed mechanics, and the occasional explosion of action that I love. For me Dota scratches a similar itch.

When I can outlane someone who is obviously mechanically better than me, through manipulating these extra layers of complexity, it feels better than when I land a huge teamfight ult.

I am not saying that LoL has no strategy or nuance, just like I would never claim that basketball was deficient in those ways. But the core pacing and structure of the games is different.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Stuff

Oh that's fine if you prefer it. The poster I was responding to was trying to make the argument that those things made the game objectively better and more fun, even though it's a matter of opinion.

 

[injurai]

this thread makes me want to reinstall dota 2

it's a scourge on my time, must resist

 

[BlastProcessing]

Oh that's fine if you prefer it. The poster I was responding to was trying to make the argument that those things made the game objectively better and more fun, even though it's a matter of opinion.

Yeah, I should have had both of your quotes in my reply. Just trying to bring the love back to what has been a pretty good discussion.

 

[SteveWinwood]

why even have last hits theyre boring

and then leveling up? people just follow that one build anyway

movement... i dunno it takes so long to get anywhere

 

[Saprol]

Most Fun - Adventure Time: Battle Party

I don't think I can access this from outside the US still.

instead of a group mourning session for the accessible, action-y unrealized potential of SMNC.RIP in peace, you promising but doomed game

The shift in focus from being more like a shooter to a MOBA was less appealing to me. The time-to-kill seemed longer. At some point, the devs compromised with Crossfire queue or whatever but then it felt like they were splitting the community instead of just taking one direction.

why even have last hits theyre boring and then leveling up? people just follow that one build anyway

Looks like it's time for Bloodline Champions to come back.

 

[SteveWinwood]

Looks like it's time for Bloodline Champions to come back.

or just play smite or hots

 

[Saprol]

or just play smite or hots

I thought you still get a gold bonus for last hitting in Smite.

 

[inkls]

Oh that's fine if you prefer it. The poster I was responding to was trying to make the argument that those things made the game objectively better and more fun, even though it's a matter of opinion.

Are you for real? I explained in great detail why I think

why I think

hmm. Thats funny, thats not what I read at all.

 

[faridmon]

Most Fun: League of Legends

 

[faridmon]

A League vs. Dota debate...?

My 2 cents is that League started off good. Season 2 was the high point. Ive played League for about 4 years or so. Ive played every champion multiple times, some hundreds of times. Up until...who was it...that little rat that turns big, until him I owned every single champion.

But I stopped. Because I just stopped caring for the balance changes. Because Riot went from 'We're not balancing around the meta.' And now a days they balance around the meta. They push the 1/1/1/2 meta. Instead of creating a character and letting them loose, they create a character that specifically is for a lane. The game suffers for it. Out of 100+ characters only 15-25 get played competitively, maybe less. There are champions that are completely not viable at all and they just nerf them(yorick, hecarim) and forget about them. Mordekaiser is barely getting looked at after 2 years of being the same, and hes barely, barely getting buffs.

Imo, League falls being dota in many ways. I see people bringing up Zed or Ez for mechanically intense characters...theres only a couple handfuls of champions in League that are like that. Like Lee or J4, but these few handfuls are the onea that are always picked or banned because in League if you add mechanically intense character, theyre automatically stronger and better than other characters in the same role. Thats the truth of it. DotA offers a wide berth of characters that have different strengths and weaknesses, and because of that the competition is more exciting because of the variety of picks.

Youll never see Swain or Veigar, or Zac or others now a days in end game serious competition. Because Riot refuaes to buff these characters up to the levels of the top tier. How many changes, buuffs and nerfs has Ahri gone through and shes still a top pick because of her mobility?

I played dota alot less but I respect their state of balance and complexity. I would say dota is more complex and potentially more fun because of the variety of viable picks.

I think you haven't seen a high level Hecarim or Swain, because at a hands of a good player, they can dominate the match

 

[Acerac]

Youll never see Swain or Veigar, or Zac or others now a days in end game serious competition. Because Riot refuaes to buff these characters up to the levels of the top tier. How many changes, buuffs and nerfs has Ahri gone through and shes still a top pick because of her mobility?

I played dota alot less but I respect their state of balance and complexity. I would say dota is more complex and potentially more fun because of the variety of viable picks.

As an aside, I'm currently watching a pro match with a Veigar support. Veigar actually shows up a decent amount these days... granted, he's getting nerfed due to it.

 

[SteveWinwood]

I thought you still get a gold bonus for last hitting in Smite.

yeah its a bonus

its like 80% for just sitting next to it as it dies though

 

[Altima]

I was Dota 2 veteran but I stop playing it because I tend to get mad easier after I play it a lot.

Now I am playing HotS. I still get mad but lesser than in Dota 2.

 

[Hojaho]

yeah its a bonus

its like 80% for just sitting next to it as it dies though

You get more xp as well in Smite.

 

[JC Sera]

I've only really played dota 2. I've seen enough of my friends playing Smite to probably its the most fun (in regards to accessibility and coming out of a game whether you lose/win and saying yes when you ask "did I have fun?") especially with all its game modes.

HoTS seems like its fun, but a different category from other mobas. If you go into it thinking "moba" you are going to find it lack luster. If you go in with "Lets run around with friends doing stupid shit with our favourite blizzard characters" then it would definitely be enjoyable.

I personally like Dota 2 the most because I grew up mostly playing video games that don't require reflexes. Dota 2 puts more focus on knowledge and thinking your actions through than split second reflexes, so I find it a lot more accessible than a lot of games for me, with my shitty reflexes.

I also like/

Spoiler

hate that its a thing

Dota 2 for winning the "you did the least amount of objectifying of women" gold star. All the T&A is the main reason I will probably never get into LoL and maybe Smite.

 

[yarden24]

I agree there. Flash to me is like denying. Been in too long to take it away now, heh. Now flash just feels like it's just part of the game but you never really want something in a game that's supposed to be a "choice" but there is no actual other choice.

I honestly don't understand what so many League players have against denying, it lets you control the lane equilibrium easier, and it makes it so you have to balance harassing with two things rather then one.

why would you want to take it away? I could see why you would want to remove stacking, since it is quite silly, but denying only adds to the game as far as im concerned, it makes the laning phase more fun

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I think you haven't seen a high level Hecarim or Swain, because at a hands of a good player, they can dominate the match

I know, I was one of those Swains in Diamond. The thing is other APs can dominate the same with less effort. You have to be really good at Swain or Hec in order to do as good.

As an aside, I'm currently watching a pro match with a Veigar support. Veigar actually shows up a decent amount these days... granted, he's getting nerfed due to it.

I havent read up his changes, but yeah if Veigar is in a group built around protecting him he can be really good. He doesnt deserve those nerfs though, hes squishy as is and needs a big build up.

 

[reSpec Gaming]

I honestly don't understand what so many League players have against denying, it lets you control the lane equilibrium easier, and it makes it so you have to balance harassing with two things rather then one.

why would you want to take it away? I could see why you would want to remove stacking, since it is quite silly, but denying only adds to the game as far as im concerned, it makes the laning phase more fun

If denying is the game you want to play - then it's fine to go play it. I chose League as someone who played Dota AllStars because denying was just not an aspect I cared for. There's an audience for a game that has it and doesn't have it.

It's like hockey and soccer are essentially the same sport (there's a net, put ball/puck in net). However I like hockey more for the parts that make it unique. So the skills involved (ie skating and stick handling) I'll get good at because I like those. But I don't like dribbling a soccer ball so I don't care for learning that skill. I don't have anything against soccer and I'll watch soccer, I just don't care for learning the skill that would make me good at soccer.

There are obviously people that lean the other way, that wouldn't care to learn the skill that is stick handling but are perfectly happy dribbling a soccer ball. Just like there will be people who like denying and people who don't.

 

[fijim]

No one played that ever

HoN is like the basement stepchild of MOBAs.

HoN was clearly the best when it came out though. The only advantage LoL had was that is was free, which got it a large market share.

HoN was much more faithful to Dota, most of the heroes were almost exact copies and the game-play was right on. Dota had way too many annoyances from the antiquated WC3 game browser, so an actual account/friend system/game browser was a huge improvement on WC3 Dota. HoN offered this.

But, people were suckered in by F2P so LoL got all the market-share. Of course, now Dota 2 is here, so HoN had basically no chance once that came out. Dota faithfuls would move there.

 

[TharpDaddy]

I havent read up his changes, but yeah if Veigar is in a group built around protecting him he can be really good. He doesnt deserve those nerfs though, hes squishy as is and needs a big build up.

He's actually being run as a support. He can completely control team fights with his aoe stun and since his ult scales with the enemy champ's AP he's always a threat, it forces the enemy team to pretty much run double AD -- which just makes them easy to itemize against. He's a really scary support.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

He's actually being run as a support. He can completely control team fights with his aoe stun and since his ult scales with the enemy champ's AP he's always a threat, it forces the enemy team to pretty much run double AD -- which just makes them easy to itemize against. He's a really scary support.

And they're nerfing him for that?

._.

It's like when Annie was being used as support and they had to nerf her. It's like...if you break the 'meta' by having pics like that, Riot will just nerf it to the ground. It's bad. It stifles metas and trying out new things.

 

[powerdrain]

I'm kind of sad that this devolved into another League vs. Dota debate instead of a group mourning session for the accessible, action-y unrealized potential of SMNC.

RIP in peace, you promising but doomed game

Aw man, I loved MNC and SMNC so much. MNC on XBLA was day one for me, but I was a few months late with SMNC, playing it every day from Summer '12 'til around Spring the next year. So good. I got annoyed when the devs kinda focused all their attention to Planetary Annihilation without ever really giving a concrete answer as to what was going on with SMNC. They said they were going to include user created skins and stuff in-game as a last resort, and people started putting the effort in but they just lost interest and people's work went to waste, it was really sad, and I think it's because the game got released earlier from beta than was planned and deflated any sort of "grand opening" for the game.

When I went on it a couple of months later there were actually more people online than when I left, but not much. Really hope it comes back in some form, the MNC universe is awesome. Recently dipped my toe into LoL to get back into the MOBA itch and just now signed up to the HoTS beta waiting list.

 

[TharpDaddy]

And they're nerfing him for that?

._.

It's like when Annie was being used as support and they had to nerf her. It's like...if you break the 'meta' by having pics like that, Riot will just nerf it to the ground. It's bad. It stifles metas and trying out new things.

Not really. They were already in the process of reworking him into being a more viable mage since they got rid of DFG. They already had changes on the way, he just gained some popularity as a support before they put the changes through. He could still work as a support, there's just a slight delay on his stun now but it gained a bit of range.