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Which RPG has the best battle system and why?

Souls games are the best. Once you master the very simple controls, combat simply becomes effortless, your character doing what you want it to do. It simply feels right, or "realistic". The way your character gets staggered by enemy attacks, or them by yours, the feel when you time a parry, the way you effortlessly dodge an enemy's attack.

Notable mentions:

Dragon's Dogma. Messier version of Souls combat. The feel is not even close to as good, but the combat has added layers of depth with some really cool spells and abilities, plus it's party based instead of solo.

FF12. Best JRPG combat system I've experienced. It's essentially programming for your party members. Basically it does all the boring parts you would do without thinking, and then allows you to make any adjustments in the moment if you need to.

Pokemon. So simple. So perfect.

Valkyria Chronicles is also brilliant.
 
FF XII. They talk about how the game can play itself each fight, as if it's a wholly negative thing. But for me, and I think Matsuno in his intention, that's the point. The point of XII is not the player input for each fight, but the player input put into your broader battlefield.

I'm replaying FFXII right now on PCSX2. FFXII has one of my favorite battle systems of any FFs, and one of things I like most is that the battle system lets you concentrate more on exploration while in the fields and dungeons rather than having to input every single command. It's very relaxing, actually!
 
Atlus proves otherwise. Play Nocturne/SMT4/EtrianOdyssey.

I played persona 4, other than the fun music I hated the way the fighting worked, running through those dungeons with random dead ends was a constant annoyance

the combat itself was ok for a turn based game but the dungeon design put me off, I think I made it about halfway through
card system seemed cool but the ui to use it was awful :\

@OT:
are any of the vita atelier games good combat system wise? I've been looking for a good vita rpg since I bought the thing.
 
Are those developers for Shadows Hearts in Marvelous now? Maybe they can make a sequel?



That's why it's so fun for me. Crafting items/weapons for hours and then actually putting them to good use(or not) in battles making the battles so much better.

Another thing is that Atelier series has no grinding unlike most other rpgs, which is a another plus for the series.

No one knows. Those masters vanished. I heard something about a studio called Feelplus Inc., and that they actually got absorbed by Mistwalker. The Shadow Hearts guys worked on Lost Odyssey.

They consistently don't get any of the credit they deserve :/

Someone needs to revive this IP. At the very least bring back the judgment ring, I just need that back :P
 
It's a poorly designed SRPG with a ton of problems. Hardly the best battle system even in its own genre.

I have only played like 4 hours so I don't have much to say, the grading system is dumb and scout rushing breaks shit, but otherwise it seems fine, lots of options and the leveling system is interesting. Whats don't you like about it?
 
I'm probably in the minority, but I really liked Chrono Cross's battle system.

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It wasn't perfect, and there were things about Chrono Trigger's system I liked better (such as the prevalence of dual techs and triple techs) but Chrono Cross had some really unique, fun ideas that just never got duplicated again (from what I know).
 
I'm probably in the minority, but I really liked Chrono Cross's battle system.

It wasn't perfect, and there were things about Chrono Trigger's system I liked better (such as the prevalence of dual techs and triple techs) but Chrono Cross had some really unique, fun ideas that just never got duplicated again (from what I know).

I think the Brave and Default System of Bravely Default comes closest to CCs combat system from what I know. I liked CCs system in general, but there were some annoyances as well.. the changing of elements was a pain in the ass, especially when changing characters and I had the impression that the battles were too easy so that you didn't need to exploit all the strategic options in order to win.
 
I have only played like 4 hours so I don't have much to say, the grading system is dumb and scout rushing breaks shit, but otherwise it seems fine, lots of options and the leveling system is interesting. Whats don't you like about it?

Poorly designed and easily exploited CP system
Poorly balanced classes
Lack of mission objective variety
Overpowered orders
Ranking system that encourages reckless and non-tactical behavior
Lack of penalty for death of characters in battle

It leads to a game where the optimal play is to put orders on a scout and run through the map to the enemy flag. It's a fine game overall, it just doesn't belong in the discussion for best battle system. Even compared to most SRPGs, I don't think the battle system is particularly good.
 
I'm going to say FFXII. Being able to set up behaviours for the party based on battle conditions was superb. I haven't come across another game that gives me that level of control. [...]
For me, there's another level of strategy involved when I have to prep a party for battle. Macro rather than micro mangement.
FF12. Best JRPG combat system I've experienced. It's essentially programming for your party members. Basically it does all the boring parts you would do without thinking, and then allows you to make any adjustments in the moment if you need to.
I'm replaying FFXII right now on PCSX2. FFXII has one of my favorite battle systems of any FFs, and one of things I like most is that the battle system lets you concentrate more on exploration while in the fields and dungeons rather than having to input every single command. It's very relaxing, actually!
I've been discussing this perspective on FF XII for years on GAF and I've never seen so much support for it. You guys brought a smile to my face. Regardless of quality or superlative titles, it's great to see show much appreciation for it and recognition of it not being inferior or poor system but rather just a different system with its own strengths.

Very like minded sentiment.

Especially the descriptions: programming, micro and macro, and field exploration.
 
Let's see.
~Action: Souls is good.
KH:BBS gets my crown for action RPGs, though. Twitchy, unforgiving, versatile and completely ungrounded in reality.
~JRPG: (Defined as turn-based with little to no user-allowed movement)
Final Fantasy XIII-2. Tactically unparalleled.
~SRPG:
Final Fantasy Tactics, because you don't fuck with the king. I should really play Valkyria Chronicles though...
~WRPG:
I'm having trouble remembering a good battle system for that category, really. ME sucked. DAO\2 triple-sucked. Elder Scrolls.. let's not talk about that. Haven't played Witcher yet. Probably BG2? idk.

All-Around crown: FF XII:IZJS. It made me love AI programming before i knew what programming was. Best of all worlds: Allows you to plan case-by-case what you want to happen, does not rely on twitch reflexes for anything, and still gives you enough in-battle control not to feel useless.

Runner-up to The Last Remnant, which had COMPLETELY AWESOME macro, but sorely lacked in micro. It felt like the battle itself was going to go exactly as planned, and your actual choices didn't matter much in battle.
... Group Composition, weapon choices et all, however.. god damn if that mattered. The spell system was completely and utterly awesome.
 
~WRPG:
I'm having trouble remembering a good battle system for that category, really. ME sucked. DAO\2 triple-sucked. Elder Scrolls.. let's not talk about that. Haven't played Witcher yet. Probably BG2? idk.

Some would say The Temple of Elemental Evil

edit: But thinking about it now. I'm not happy with your simplification. Why put elder scrolls and Mass effect in the same category with BG2, while separating KH from FF tactics?
 
I always really loved The World Ends With You's battle system.

Customizable/flexable to fit your playstyle with pins, plenty of style, super satisfying to level up your Fusion attack with your partner, a lot of depth and just overall super fun to play with. Would have loved to see this expanded in a sequel, but..:(

For something simple, but effective, I'd vote for Pokemon.
 
I played persona 4, other than the fun music I hated the way the fighting worked, running through those dungeons with random dead ends was a constant annoyance

the combat itself was ok for a turn based game but the dungeon design put me off, I think I made it about halfway through
card system seemed cool but the ui to use it was awful :\

@OT:
are any of the vita atelier games good combat system wise? I've been looking for a good vita rpg since I bought the thing.

Yes definitely get Atelier Meruru plus, best game on the vita!
 
For me it was Grandia 2.


I loved how characters moved across the battle screen without having a fixed position like in most turned-based RPG. Dependent on the timing, a playable character or enemy can "cancel" an opponent's move. A combo attack allows a character to land two hits on an enemy. The hits can be increased with certain accessories, up to four hits per combo. A combo attack can also "counter" if it hits an enemy in an attack pose, dealing additional damage. Additionally, if the combo kills the intended target before reaching the final blow, the character will attack the closest enemy to complete the combo.

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In my opinion this made the game extremely rewarding and fun. I actually replayed it not long ago and it was glorious. Its not a very difficult game though. Thirty hours and you'll finish it.
 
FF XII: I absolutely loved the hours I poured into customising the AI to fit my playstyle. They could be as simple and as complex as I wanted. It really opened up a new aspect of RPGs for me. :)
 
It leads to a game where the optimal play is to put orders on a scout and run through the map to the enemy flag. It's a fine game overall, it just doesn't belong in the discussion for best battle system. Even compared to most SRPGs, I don't think the battle system is particularly good.

In short, you haven't played Valkyria Chronicles 2 and Valkyria Chronicles 3 ~Unrecorded Chronicles~.
 
This should probably go in the 'unpopular opinions' thread, lol, but two battle systems I kinda dislike are Persona 4 and Xenoblade.

With Persona 4, it's because the flow of battle is entirely based around weaknesses. You enter battle vs a new enemy, and immediately spam one of each spell on each different enemy. Once that works, just endlessly spam that spell, pile on, and heal when necessary. There was very, very little to it other than that. Add to that the awful dungeons (though I loved their 'themes') and you have a game that was really only great when you were in Inaba itself. (Though those parts made the game entirely worth playing.) The battle system wasn't awful, but it was pretty dull.

With Xenoblade, I loved the setup. The positioning of your character, the different arts (skills), the fact that each character was wildly different, and the chaining of skill buffs between characters using social links. The problem with Xenoblade was entirely in enemy design. They never advanced beyond 'get behind this guy and unload', or 'topple this enemy and unload'. The designers obviously knew this, so they threw in wrinkles like the Mechon who needed to be 'unlocked' for damage using the Monado first, or enemies that were only really affected by magic. But the vast majority of fights were the exact same thing over and over. Varying enemy design or AI would have made it incredible, but as it was it was a great system in search of actual gameplay to apply it to.

The same kind of applies to Pokemon. For the entire game you just spam your best move. The game never throws battles at you that make you use good movesets, so you don't even see the depth. If you get into battling with other people a lot, you see that it's an incredible system. Flawed (stealth rock and other such moves need to be removed post-haste) but brilliant. But the 80 hour main game does not use it in the slightest.

Two (edit: three!) that I loved:
Final Fantasy 12 - Others have covered this one. You loved it or you hated it. I loved it.
Golden Sun - As far as your classic RPG mechanics went, I thought this was as good as it got. The balance between using Djinn or keeping them as buffs was brilliant, and then storing them all up to summon... added to a phenomenal presentation and blistering battle pace - it was perfection.
Etrian Odyssey 2 - It was so perfectly balanced in every way. If your party wasn't set up well, you would get wiped by the easiest enemies. Making every fight interesting. Once you learned how to set up your party through trial and error and invested in good skills, you steadily became more and more proficient in the most satisfying way. It did not revolve in any way around any 'rock-paper-scissors' weakness mechanics, and both defence and offence were required at all times. It was essentially the 'Demon's Souls' of turn-based RPGs. A lot of SMT games are like this (thinking of Strange Journey here), but for me EO2 was the best.
 
Best tactical combat in a game. My only problem is how short it was but damn did the community really help out and make this one of the best games to play over and over. Pretty tough at times and much more challenging than Baldur's Gate was I love going back to this game.

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I can't claim to have played a great number of RPGs, but FFXII is my favourite. I can't and won't explain it as well as others have, but I appreciate the level of control you have over things. Gambits are completely optional for a start, which is great. Even if you just used an cure gambit for something you would always do, like when someone is less than 50% health, it can take away any tedium that might bring to the table and allows the game to be faster paced. And there's a beauty to watching a perfectly set up team go to work on a boss. It's the Tweaker's battle system.
 
With Persona 4, it's because the flow of battle is entirely based around weaknesses. You enter battle vs a new enemy, and immediately spam one of each spell on each different enemy. Once that works, just endlessly spam that spell, pile on, and heal when necessary. There was very, very little to it other than that. Add to that the awful dungeons (though I loved their 'themes') and you have a game that was really only great when you were in Inaba itself. (Though those parts made the game entirely worth playing.) The battle system wasn't awful, but it was pretty dull.

Except that's not really true, sure the weakness thing has some merit but otherwise its got alot of options with knockdown, guarding, buffing, switching to optimal fusions for resistance to elements, and of course a really neat fusion and inheritance system (which is kinda broken in golden, but its still fun) did you play on easy? on hard mode the game has some depth. Personally I never really cared about tartarus/midnight channel, but to be fair you could throw me in a wire framed training room with some good combat and I would be fine.
 
I also don't really think games like Dragon's Dogma or the Souls games belong in the discussion.

They have more in common with a Zelda, Bayonetta or other such game than they do with traditional turn based RPGs. They're action games with RPG backgrounds. The combat is action oriented rather than strategy oriented, no matter how careful or strategic that action needs to be. Your skill with a controller will always matter more than your strategy entering a battle. Traditional RPGs do not require any real twitch gaming skill in a 3d space. I think any system that puts games like Demon's Souls in the same genre as Persona 4 is completely broken, to be honest. The fact that you 'role play' in a game should not determine genre, the core gameplay should.

If we're counting them, then of course the souls games would be up there.

I'd also like to add to those saying that Valkyria Chronicles battle system was hugely disappointing. It was slow and cumbersome, shots that appeared open would constantly hit walls, there was a bizarre disconnect between taking turns but having to end a turn quickly as you were being shot at in real time... It wasn't good, and I never finished it. One of the biggest disappointments of the generation to me after the build up it got around the web.
 
I'm going to say FFXII. Being able to set up behaviours for the party based on battle conditions was superb. I haven't come across another game that gives me that level of control.

My man. I remember when I finally understood Quickenings. I was fighting Garuda and just decided to try it legit. Wiped out 85% of its HP; felt incredible. Halfway through the game I started hunting marks and forgot the story and set my Gambits so well I rarely had to manually override. Its sitting in my ps2 right now!

Edit: Mad props to fellow FFXII brethren...

Also KHII, BBS, DDD and the first Legend of Legaia!
 
Best tactical combat in a game. My only problem is how short it was but damn did the community really help out and make this one of the best games to play over and over. Pretty tough at times and much more challenging than Baldur's Gate was I love going back to this game.

Temple+of+Elemental+Evil+Soundtrack+TempleOfElementalEvil_OST.jpg
A good pick.

Also:

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Baldur's Gate 2 is another solid contender, even if it's a real time with pause.
When it comes to action combat, I'm probably going to pick Dark Souls and Monster Hunter as two solid options.

Oh, and Mount&Blade Warband for the best mounted combat (and mounted archery) in any game.

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dark souls.

ff 12. the gambits are awesome.

but for the most part, classic FF atb system.



and no, the ff 13 battle system sucks ass..
 
Except that's not really true, sure the weakness thing has some merit but otherwise its got alot of options with knockdown, guarding, buffing, switching to optimal fusions for resistance to elements, and of course a really neat fusion and inheritance system (which is kinda broken in golden, but its still fun) did you play on easy? on hard mode the game has some depth. Personally I never really cared about tartarus/midnight channel, but to be fair you could throw me in a wire framed training room with some good combat and I would be fine.

I played on hard. Knockdown is based around weaknesses, if I remember correctly. You fuse your Personas to give you the best weakness coverage. The entire game revolves around that one mechanic, there's no getting around that. Yes, difficult battles require buffing and that's a fun mechanic but most of the time you never use them. And again, you'd only ever really guard if your character had a weakness you saw was about to be exploited. I also disliked feeling like I had to conserve SP when it was constantly needed in even normal battles. Towards the end of the game it's not a problem, but SP management is not fun game design.

It didn't help that halfway through the game I stumbled into fusing Trumpeter, whom I later found is completely OP. I knew it at the time though, he had some debuff move that destroyed almost everything he came across. Never switched for the rest of the game.

I'll also never understand how people can compare Persona to Pokemon. Your Persona monster is pretty much irrelevant other than being a series of weakness data allied to passed on abilities. It's not like they're out there fighting on the field. You'd barely notice the difference between them, they're just a method of skill selection like you'd see in any other RPG. They could be represented by fusable materia jewels or some such and the game would play out the exact same way. The other characters who had fixed personas - I did get to know and like those characters. The main character's personas were disposable non-entities who were just there for stats.
 
I played on hard. Knockdown is based around weaknesses, if I remember correctly. You fuse your Personas to give you the best weakness coverage. The entire game revolves around that one mechanic, there's no getting around that. Yes, difficult battles require buffing and that's a fun mechanic but most of the time you never use them. And again, you'd only ever really guard if your character had a weakness you saw was about to be exploited. I also disliked feeling like I had to conserve SP when it was constantly needed in even normal battles. Towards the end of the game it's not a problem, but SP management is not fun game design.

It didn't help that halfway through the game I stumbled into fusing Trumpeter, whom I later found is completely OP. I knew it at the time though, he had some debuff move that destroyed almost everything he came across. Never switched for the rest of the game.

I'll also never understand how people can compare Persona to Pokemon. Your Persona monster is pretty much irrelevant other than being a series of weakness data allied to passed on abilities. It's not like they're out there fighting on the field. You'd barely notice the difference between them, they're just a method of skill selection like you'd see in any other RPG. They could be represented by fusable materia jewels or some such and the game would play out the exact same way. The other characters who had fixed personas - I did get to know and like those characters. The main character's personas were disposable non-entities who were just there for stats.
Golden kinda fixes it by handing out ridiculous amounts of snuff souls and other sp boosting items, along with getting sp gain from the card shuffle. Anyways I liked SP management, kinda throws a monkey-wrench into finishing the dungeon in one night/going for max social link runs( due to time restrictions and going to midnight channel instead of raising stats for early game links) unless you really plan things out.
 
Yes definitely get Atelier Meruru plus, best game on the vita!

just checked, 40 euros on psn
f that
also my ps+ just expired and now the only games I have to play on the system are killzone and soul sacrifice...
Browsing through the store and every game I'd like to play is 40 euros as well
Forgot how ridiculously expensive vita games are =\
 
Final Fantasy X-2
You have ATB-system with job classes and job changes mid battle + a simple combo system. The best rpg battle system I've ever played.

Close second is FF XII. Seeing you gambit setup reacting to battle situation felt so satisfying.
 
Xenoblade and the Mario & Luigi games.

They always keep me active, I'm never sitting there bored, waiting for my turn to come.

Those are the only RPG's where I actually look for enemies to fight.
 
Atelier in the OP? Wow troll thread.

FF12 I like, FF7 is good because of how broken materia system is (if you could that as part of the battle system, which I do!) and Tales of Destiny because of the spell cast voices.
 
The Etrian series. The basics are really simple (fight/skill/items commands), but combined with the skill tree system and the effects of (and interaction between) the different powers, bonus/penalties, it becomes really deep and entertaining.

Also, SMT's push system and Chrono Trigger/Cross. Both the Chrono games' systems, especially, seemed to me especially elegant for their time, not revolutionnary but evolutionnary.
 
Dragon Age: Origins

I have thoroughly enjoyed playing through it multiple times on nightmare over the years. It is my favourite magic system in an RPG. I was very disappointed that instead of fleshing it out in 2 they bastardized it for consoles.
 
Shadow Hearts:Covenant for the ps2 and Grandia 2 for the Dreamcast.

Why? Because both of those had battle systems that were crunchy as fuck
 
Wizardry 8 for being unique, fun and smart and stupid at the same time.
Phase-based combat wasn't a new concept. It was, however, well-implemented, with the notable exception of Continuous Phase mode; the game's combat was simply too brutal for it to work well. You really needed those breathers Turn Phase mode gave you.

And it wasn't stupid, just crazily and continuously hard from the moment you stepped out of the monastery.
 
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Shadow Heart ring system for traditional JRPG . It's an interactive risk/reward system where hitting the small area grants critical damage while hitting large hit area for playing it safe with normal damages . The depth came in when you equip more ring modifier like blind hit area for insane damage , or combining rare modifier that will slow/fasten the ring's needle depending on the rewards .

It's fun and balanced for sure , and less repetitive while grinding , staying as a turn-based system .
 
I really love the simple, elegant and deep combat of the Souls games. But in terms of the most fun, I'd probably have to choose Dragon's Dogma. Because when I'm fighting a giant Cyclops you can bet your arse I expect to climb up and stab it in the eye!
 
Poorly designed and easily exploited CP system
Poorly balanced classes
Lack of mission objective variety
Overpowered orders
Ranking system that encourages reckless and non-tactical behavior
Lack of penalty for death of characters in battle

It leads to a game where the optimal play is to put orders on a scout and run through the map to the enemy flag. It's a fine game overall, it just doesn't belong in the discussion for best battle system. Even compared to most SRPGs, I don't think the battle system is particularly good.

I don't think it's really *that* deep at a strategic level, but if you're just playing for fun it's an extremely intuitive battle system. Maybe I'm just delusional because of my love for the rest of the game.

I thought about mentioning Golden Sun, although you do get very tired of fighting due to the encounter rate. Awesome games though.

I wish there was a pc version of ff12.

Dragon Age: Origins

I have thoroughly enjoyed playing through it multiple times on nightmare over the years. It is my favourite magic system in an RPG. I was very disappointed that instead of fleshing it out in 2 they bastardized it for consoles.

I thought about mentioning DA:O too. The game is a ton of fun on Nightmare difficulty, the chaining together of cone of cold->shattering enemies was great. I sadly played it on PS3 because my PC was too weak at the time, and it remains my only platinum trophy, and it was actually accidental. I just played it so much that eventually I had seen everything and got the trophy.
 
Another vote for The Temple of Elemental Evil, just perfect turn based combat and the best adaption of D&D rules to date. Oh, how I wish Troika would have made the planned Against the Giants series using the same engine.
 
Xenosaga ep. III and Mana Khemia come to mind. X-2 too, I guess.

I guess most people who say Persona 4 never played Nocturne.

Ys series for realtime combat
disgaea for unit placement/strategy
edit: oh yeah definitely dragon's dogma for open world rpgs, makes skyrim look like the pile of garbage that it really is
As far as turn based, I suppose ff10 and the penny arcade games? idk really I think turn based games are a relic from when hardware was too weak to calculate realtime battle mechanics

/rolleyes

Dude, you know Action RPG Existed since snes, right?
 
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