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Which should I jump into first Skyrim or Dark Souls?
- Thread starter dr3upmushroom
- Start date
FunkyPajamas
Member
There is your answer. Play Dark Souls and come back here, I'd love to read about your journey.
Sentenza
Member
I played other RPGs before. That's how.
NinjaBoiX
Member
Do you actually want to see stuff, like beautiful scenery, towns, caves, etc? Go explore, and make your own adventure?
Or would you rather redo the same dull, dark area ten times in a row? And get repeatedly kicked in the nuts?
On the plus side, if you say Dark Souls, you will get some GAF points. You will be a cool dude.
Seriously, play Skyrim. There is nothing to do in DS, but fight, and die. Seriously, that's it. Skyrim has so much more going on.
Yes, DS is a decent game, and yes, I'm a little bitter that I suck at it.
Just remember, the game is at its most difficult early on. Stick with it and learn the game and you'll be rewarded in spades.You may have convinced me to get the game.
Monocle
Member
I see what you're getting at, but I think it's fair to say without reference to other games that Skyrim has tons of variety to offer unless the player insists on sticking to the most conventional path. Whether or not Dark Souls ends up blowing my mind, I'll still remember and value my 100+ hours with Skyrim.
Strangely enough, so have I.
CambriaRising
Member
The effect doesn't work on everyone, in fact it scares more people off than it impresses.
Sentenza
Member
No, not really. No if they don't offer anything interesting gameplay-wise.
Exploration is gameplay.
If they'd just consult a guide on a few things, they'd have a much better time.
I tend to check a guide to figure out which area is recommended to go next, and I'll watch a video if I'm having trouble with a boss fight.
He's talking about combat, I think. And Skyrim's combat is about as interesting as a damp wash rag. Also, exploration isn't worth much when there's no good loot to find outside of quests. That's why Morrowind was so compelling - wandering around was always interesting because you were constantly on the look-out for awesome loot.
NinjaBoiX
Member
I honestly flsont see what is so impressive about DS. It's well put together and everything, but it's not like it's technically astounding, or doing anything particularly new.
The main draw, is how challenging it is.
But I don't know about anyone else, but I'd rather see new content, than have to retread the same tired areas over and over. And then lose all your progress because your concentration lapsed for a few seconds, and be back to square one.
Urgh, it's just too much work. I honestly don't see how people enjoy it, it's just a laborious trudge, a war of attrition. And no amount of nice art, and decent design can change that for me.
NinjaBoiX
Member
What about a game that offers interesting gameplay, but in really dull, dark locales. And that is challenging enough, that you regularly lose hours of progress?
Dark Souls does offer far superior gameplay, I can't deny that. But that's it, some monsters to whack, and the odd shop. There is nothing to do in that game besides kill stuff.
Hence, I'd choose Skyrim. It offers far, far greater variety, loverly music, and a gorgeous, interesting world. DS offers tight, challenging gameplay, in a small, dull, lifeless world.
This makes no sense.
Playing DS doesn't suddenly make you think Skyrim is repetitve or dull.
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
For Skyrim: I roamed freely about and had good fun for about 40hrs, then I quit playing it. It's not a shitty game at all, it's just not.. very challenging.
So I guess it depends on what you want out of it, really.
So I guess it depends on what you want out of it, really.
SolsticeZero
Banned
It depends on the person playing, really. Many, like myself, find Dark Souls to be a better game, and yes, I do find Skyrim to be a bit repetitive.
Sentenza
Member
No, exploration is part of the gameplay when it includes, you know, game mechanics tied in.
When you have vertical building, a bit of platforming, obstacles to consider/avoid, "gatekeepers" to pass, secrets to find and so on.
When it's just walking around in a (mostly) flat landscape or in a bunch of corridors without anything you can cross being of any influence to your experience, it's not gameplay, it's just background.
Compare Dark Souls, Gothic or Risen to Skyrim to get the idea.
Hell, actually even a *literally* flat world like the one seen in the 20 years old Ultima VII/Serpent Isle puts the "explorative gameplay" in Skyrim in shame.
SolsticeZero
Banned
Not to mention that the POI compass kind of killed a bit of the exploration. One of the best things about Morrowind was that you had to listen to people's directions to find a certain place. But now you just fast travel to the nearest location and follow the little arrow.
I know you can mod it to turn it off, but it's still not the same. The world of Skyrim wasn't laid out for that type of raw exploration. Pretty much everything is right out in the open.
I dont know if I'd go as far as you went but it is definitely a slog. Ok, I'll be honest, I only played Demon's Souls so Dark Souls could be better. I beat the second boss
The Giant Knight dude
Arjen
Member
They're completly different games, i enjoyed them both al lot. But for different reasons.
I liked exploring al the caves/ houses/ castles in Skyrim and finding al the little stories tied to them. It's a very easy and relaxing game to play.
Dark Souls has amazing combat, amazing level design and makes you think before you move, which is sooo refreshing.
I will say, if a good combat system is essential for you, play Skyrim first, i found it really hard getting back into Skyrim after playing Dark Souls.
I liked exploring al the caves/ houses/ castles in Skyrim and finding al the little stories tied to them. It's a very easy and relaxing game to play.
Dark Souls has amazing combat, amazing level design and makes you think before you move, which is sooo refreshing.
I will say, if a good combat system is essential for you, play Skyrim first, i found it really hard getting back into Skyrim after playing Dark Souls.
NinjaBoiX
Member
Wow, you tried really hard to paint the exploration in Skyrim as dull and restrictive and as opposed to Dark Souls of all things! I'm not saying DS has no exploration, but to say Skyrim is an inferior world to explore, just, what? DS literally is a series of connected corridors. It's certainly a lot more linear than Skyrim.
Ah well, God loves a tryer.
I find the world of Dark Souls more exciting to explore because of the risk/reward element.
Sure there's more to explore in Skyrim, but I don't feel the same motivation to actually do it. Exploring a new area in Dark Souls is fascinating and terrifying, whereas exploring something in Skyrim just feels tedious.
Sure there's more to explore in Skyrim, but I don't feel the same motivation to actually do it. Exploring a new area in Dark Souls is fascinating and terrifying, whereas exploring something in Skyrim just feels tedious.
Sentenza
Member
No, I actually tried very hard to enjoy it, but I just couldn't because it *is* dull.
Yeah, and I would state it again: it is an inferior world to explore.
Let me stress the relevant part. inferior to explore. I'm not claiming that DS is bigger or less linear, I'm specifically saying that exploration in DS (and in many other RPGs) is rewarding and interesting, while Skyrim can't brag about any of these qualities.
More specifically, DS is a series of *cleverly* connected corridors, with a good amount of optional stuff (secret passages, secret loot, optional areas even) that requires an active effort to be found.
That's the main point: less than interconnections make exploration gratifying and fun.
Can someone point me a single dungeon or fight that's actually fun in Skyrim? Can someone point a loot that feels actually useful and rewarding? Can someone point a different are that actually requires a different approach?
Because the more I think about it, the more I just remember hours spent in this way:
"Walk, walk, walk, oooh pretty scenario, walk, walk, WATCH OUT, ENEMY! but don't worry, it auto-scales to your level so no way it can be dangerous! OH LOOK, HE DROPPED AN ITEM! Wait, that's random and it scales to your level too, so it's the usual crap you can drop anywhere else in the whole world".
Where and when comes the fun exactly?
And yet the exploration is the main draw of the game to me. Taking in the environment, music, lore, and discovering locations.
Sentenza
Member
That's exactly my problem with it, because despise that, it still doesn't do it well.
And just to be clear: not compared to some abstract, absurd ideal of perfection, but compared to plenty of other games around.
Dark Souls is my most played game on steam, Skyrim is the second. I played Dark Souls after Skyrim and in retrospect I'm glad I did. Let me tell you why:
1. The issue of visuals. Skyrim is a far prettier game than the rather drab and adequate environments of Dark Souls. Where Dark Souls shines is in it's character models, the environments themselves... not so much. Skyrim being my first elder scrolls game and my first wRPG I've spent any length of time with I was absolutely blown away and it was a great first taste of what was to come in the refining of my rpg palette. I feel like if I played Dark Souls first I would have not been so hooked in because of the oppressive and drab environments.
2. The issue of story. Skyrim is absolutely over the top with the way it delivers it's story, many NPCs with many lines of dialogue, all explaining their personal histories and responding to the impact you have on the world. Dark Souls is much more subtle. There are only a handful of NPCs that give you rich but very mysterious lines of dialog (you have to piece the story together yourself). Also, lore is delivered via item descriptions of all things... a fact I was made aware of until I started watching EpicNameBro's videos on youtube. This again, is a matter of being overt vs subtle. Skyrim immediately grabs you and spoon feeds you a story. If you've been on a hiatus from gaming this method of story telling is more approachable and less frustrating than what most gamers have told me about their experience with Dark Souls.
3. The issue of combat. Dark Souls absolutely crushes the combat in Skyrim. It's deep, rewarding, and one of the most compelling combat systems I've played in any game ever and ultimately probably the reason why I consider Dark Souls to be my favorite game of all 20+ years of video gaming as a hobby. Watch a video of someone using only the club as their weapon through their playthrough and see, it's not a matter of one weapon being better than the other, it's a matter of you connecting to that weapon and becoming excellent with it. Putting together builds/gear setup is addictive simply because of how much everything changes with every point or every piece of gear you change out. Skyrim is merely okay in terms of combat, nothing really has the impact or the weight of Dark Souls. It serves as a simple introduction into what a fantasy action rpg could be and then Dark Souls comes along and takes that idea into the stratosphere.
I hope this helps.
1. The issue of visuals. Skyrim is a far prettier game than the rather drab and adequate environments of Dark Souls. Where Dark Souls shines is in it's character models, the environments themselves... not so much. Skyrim being my first elder scrolls game and my first wRPG I've spent any length of time with I was absolutely blown away and it was a great first taste of what was to come in the refining of my rpg palette. I feel like if I played Dark Souls first I would have not been so hooked in because of the oppressive and drab environments.
2. The issue of story. Skyrim is absolutely over the top with the way it delivers it's story, many NPCs with many lines of dialogue, all explaining their personal histories and responding to the impact you have on the world. Dark Souls is much more subtle. There are only a handful of NPCs that give you rich but very mysterious lines of dialog (you have to piece the story together yourself). Also, lore is delivered via item descriptions of all things... a fact I was made aware of until I started watching EpicNameBro's videos on youtube. This again, is a matter of being overt vs subtle. Skyrim immediately grabs you and spoon feeds you a story. If you've been on a hiatus from gaming this method of story telling is more approachable and less frustrating than what most gamers have told me about their experience with Dark Souls.
3. The issue of combat. Dark Souls absolutely crushes the combat in Skyrim. It's deep, rewarding, and one of the most compelling combat systems I've played in any game ever and ultimately probably the reason why I consider Dark Souls to be my favorite game of all 20+ years of video gaming as a hobby. Watch a video of someone using only the club as their weapon through their playthrough and see, it's not a matter of one weapon being better than the other, it's a matter of you connecting to that weapon and becoming excellent with it. Putting together builds/gear setup is addictive simply because of how much everything changes with every point or every piece of gear you change out. Skyrim is merely okay in terms of combat, nothing really has the impact or the weight of Dark Souls. It serves as a simple introduction into what a fantasy action rpg could be and then Dark Souls comes along and takes that idea into the stratosphere.
I hope this helps.
Of course but does anybody play Skyrim, enjoy it then go on to play DS and suddenly find Skyrim repetitive?
Arjen
Member
Go to a doctor then, because that's not normal.
NinjaBoiX
Member
So Tuco, even though DS is more linear, has very little to find, and is small, dark and cramped, it's a more fun game to explore than the vast, open, beautiful world of Skyrim?
Also, what's so "clever" about a door becoming a shortcut? Really? Talk about rose tinted specs! It's a fucking shortcut for gods sake! I bet the shield is an incredibly clever mechanic, that teaches you the importance of holding L1 the whole time you are playing eh?
Also, what's so "clever" about a door becoming a shortcut? Really? Talk about rose tinted specs! It's a fucking shortcut for gods sake! I bet the shield is an incredibly clever mechanic, that teaches you the importance of holding L1 the whole time you are playing eh?
Not really. No other game offers good exploration with comparable freedom or scope aside from the Fallouts.
HitokiriNate85
Member
I'd say this is true, except you're combining pretty objective points about challenge and control with much more subjective ones like whether the lore/world is interesting. Dark Souls, without a doubt, has the world I most enjoyed this generation. Maybe dark fantasy just isn't your thing. Nothing wrong with that. There's a lot of lore and detail for anyone who wants to get into it.
"Hey doc, I fall asleep when playing this game called Skyrim. Other games don't have this effect. I'm sure there's something in the DSM V to explain this."
NinjaBoiX
Member
The world in DS is just small, dark and cramped. There isn't really any exploration to speak of. There are paths where you can walk, or pits/lava/whatever where you can die, that's pretty much it.
Seriously, objectively speaking, I don't know how anyone can find DS more interesting to explore than Skyrim. There is nothing there! It's nicely textured paths, that's it. Skyrim actually feels like a huge place to go and discover.
Sentenza
Member
Yeah, I just don't think there is ANY truth in your claim.
Sentenza
Member
To discover WHAT? There's nothing in Skyrim worthy of being discovered, which is exactly its main issue.
Of course, unless you are just fine with looking at pretty scenarios, regardless of how dull it is to interact with them.
When I want that, I usually watch (again) at BBC Planet Earth, I don't play games.
I think he's just trying to argue on your level.
NinjaBoiX
Member
Again, as opposed to the fully interactive environments of DS? It's even more linear and static, and has far less to find.
I don't understand your POV, sorry. Talk about better gameplay, or superior art, or a more progressive style of game, and I'm all ears. Try to tell me that there is more to interact with in DS than there is in Skyrim and I'm likely to call you slightly insane.
Actually I'll change my answer a bit. Play Skyrim if you get that total Morrowind overhaul mod. I've heard that manages to turn Skyrim into a somewhat respectable RPG. Then again no matter how many gameplay fixes it has it won't fix the horrendously lazy MMO fetch/kill quests.
Sentenza
Member
Wait, are you trying to suggest I should feel bad just because I know better?
Because that's the point. I'm not shitting on Skyrim because I want to hate it.
Actually, I would like to love it. I just can't because i played too many better games to be fine with what it offers. I also already named a few of them.
Sentenza
Member
I already answered to this, are you reading my replies at all?
DS doesn't offer more landscape or interaction, but it ties its game mechanics to exploration far better than Skyrim does at any point in its entire world desing.
Arjen
Member
Skyrim has tons of cool little stories to discover trough journals.
For example in the lighthouse, piecing together the stories trough the journals left in there was pretty cool.
That's cool. But when you're arguing every one of your utterances as an undeniable fact, don't gawk when someone else starts doing the same.
HitokiriNate85
Member
If you're specifically talking about the feel of exploration, then it's an apples and oranges thing. Skyrim is open world. Dark Souls is not. However, I don't personally find a fully open world game anymore interesting to explore, but I can see why some people do. What about a series like Metroid? Do you find exploration there? It's my favorite series when it comes to exploration. It's very similar in ways to Dark Souls.
Sentenza
Member
I would at least expect to hear "claimed facts" grounded in reality.
ho can someone play both Skyrim and Gothic 2/Risen and then claim that the former has the best world design around?
What's most hilarious is how he was probably referring to Fallout 3 insteaod of the best chapters in the saga (1 and 2), which is also simply terrible in that sense.
Dunno if this really adds anything new to the discussion, but I had an immensely enjoyable time with both games. They are not at all similar, however, and either one will eat up hundreds of hours if you're into them.
Skyrim is enjoyable and you can turn your brain off for a while. There's a lot of stuff you can do, and none of it takes too much skill or thought. There's also a lot more to the world to explore than in Dark Souls. There is not much reward in it outside of simply playing the game itself. This is not a bad thing.
Dark Souls requires your full attention at almost all times. You have to be aware of your surroundings, and it does take a good amount of actual player skill. The world, while fascinating, simply isn't as large or as open as in Skyrim. The reward comes from improving yourself.
Skyrim is shallow, but fast paced enough that I didn't really care because I was constantly finding new stuff.
Dark Souls is deeper, but much more intentionally slowly paced. Plus, the last third of the game is, in my opinion, not much fun.
I would say start out with Skyrim. I found myself not playing again after I finished with the main story and the vast majority of side quests.
I have not yet stopped playing Dark Souls, as it has an entertaining NG+. And NG++... and a bunch of +s after that.
Skyrim is enjoyable and you can turn your brain off for a while. There's a lot of stuff you can do, and none of it takes too much skill or thought. There's also a lot more to the world to explore than in Dark Souls. There is not much reward in it outside of simply playing the game itself. This is not a bad thing.
Dark Souls requires your full attention at almost all times. You have to be aware of your surroundings, and it does take a good amount of actual player skill. The world, while fascinating, simply isn't as large or as open as in Skyrim. The reward comes from improving yourself.
Skyrim is shallow, but fast paced enough that I didn't really care because I was constantly finding new stuff.
Dark Souls is deeper, but much more intentionally slowly paced. Plus, the last third of the game is, in my opinion, not much fun.
I would say start out with Skyrim. I found myself not playing again after I finished with the main story and the vast majority of side quests.
I have not yet stopped playing Dark Souls, as it has an entertaining NG+. And NG++... and a bunch of +s after that.