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Who did Batman better? Nolanverse or Rocksteady/WB?
- Thread starter NotTheGuyYouKill
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SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Plenty still dislike arkham combat and how its setting trend for the industry.
Nolan's shitty fight scene doesn't influence other movie to copy random ass amateur hour wrestling for their film
The problem with Nolan's Batman is all about how he ended the series. If it's to be taken literally, Robin becomes the new Batman, with no training or tutoring, just left to fend for himself basically.
Nolan didn't consider the larger universe when making the trilogy and didn't leave much room to expand on the characters unless Bruce were to return after his "vacation". Although this could be one of the reasons it was as successful as it was.
Rocksteady/WB didn't do a very good job either setting up his supporting cast. When did Tim become Robin in their universe, or Jason, or even Nightwing?
They leave a lot of stuff out that fans actually care about.
Nolan didn't consider the larger universe when making the trilogy and didn't leave much room to expand on the characters unless Bruce were to return after his "vacation". Although this could be one of the reasons it was as successful as it was.
Rocksteady/WB didn't do a very good job either setting up his supporting cast. When did Tim become Robin in their universe, or Jason, or even Nightwing?
They leave a lot of stuff out that fans actually care about.
EatinOlives
Member
Rocksteady's writing has problems that aren't that much removed from your average video game writing flaws. Shit falls apart at the last minute, stories are written around setpieces, etc. etc. Not that it makes the games a bad thing. They are, after all, video games that "play" by different rules. But looking at just the stories there's zero doubt that the Nolan films were written better (even if Rising was kinda assy).
because it clearly is
Combat Wombat
Banned
Preach. One of my favorite moments in Origins:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5meg74IhGAI&feature=youtu.be&t=138
Yeah it's straight up "I am the one who knocks: Batman edition" but you get the idea.
I can't tell if it's the writing so Conroy doesn't have much to work with, or if he's just there for the paycheck. Maybe a combination of the two since Hamill was excellent in every installment. He doesn't seem to have the same range he used to have.
Baldwin_the_First
Member
Suuuuuuuuure...
It's neither sarcasm or trolling. Arkham's combat is legit bad. There's no depth at all to the striking. No versatility, no freedom, no creativity, all you can do and need to is mash square/X after stunning or vaulting over a opponent to knockout the guy you're fighting. Only thing that makes you unable to do it as easily as i'm saying is because they give you a tremendous amount of ennemies for batman to fight at the same time, which is a extremely easy and cheap way to add difficulty to your game.
Take Sleeping Dogs for exemple where it is extremely similar, yet has much more depth than Batman's. Know why? Because you can mix in punches/elbows, kicks and grabs with the face buttons, and you can have variants of these strikes by holding buttons down while also having variants to actual combinations depending on what you press beforehand. Arkham's games doesn't even let you do this even after 4 tries at a batman game. Just make it so bumpers on a controller can act as modifiers and you could add much more depth to your plain as hell combat.
And I know Nolan's choregraphies are extremely bad. That was the point of it.
/nerd rant
Are we gonna ignore that you can use your gadgets mid-combat to diversify your combos? Knight even takes it a step further and lets you use weapons/environmental takedowns. Pretty disingenuous criticism.
beyond_death
Member
I'm a big fan of the Nolan movies, but Rocksteady definitely did a better Batman.
Baldwin_the_First
Member
"Stunning opponents" refers to exactly this. There's actually a specific ennemy in Arkham's Knight that needs you to actually stun him with a gadget that shoots electric pellets where afterwards all you need to do is mash the square/x to get him down. That's exactly my point. It's not diversity, it's bad gameplay design. How is it disingenuous? It's exactly what Arkham's combat is.
You take for exemple the fact that you can do environmental takedowns and use weapons, but this is also possible in sleeping dogs while also having much more in-depth combat. It's simply just not a good enough try for a 4th game.
Black-Wind
Member
The games.
Nolan's Bats is shit. Batman in name only compared to the love-letters that are the games.
Nolan's Bats is shit. Batman in name only compared to the love-letters that are the games.
You're acting as if you can't cheese Sleeping Dogs combat and that the addition of more inputs somehow makes the combat more in-depth and interesting. They're in the same ballpark in terms of variety. This is coming from someone that loves Sleeping Dogs.
Baldwin_the_First
Member
Are you seriously comparing the fact you can use batarangs and a shocking gun, to actual in-depth combinations, grabs and striking that have variants to them (which also presents a whole other string of possible combinations)? lol you're the one being disingenuous in your attempt to defend it.
I get you're hyped now cause you're playing it, but that's just silly. Sleeping dogs has by far better combat than Arkham's. You can be happy with your minimalistic gameplay for all I care, it doesn't change the facts.
Also, special moves in Arkham's shouldn't be restricted by a "combo count" if the gameplay is as basic as it possibly can in the first place. It's bad gameplay design I tell you, which has made it's way to a fourth and hopefully final game with this type of combat.
Combat Wombat
Banned
Come on now, he didn't have any choice but to believe his word considering the situation he was in.
Gambit 1138
Banned
Pretty much this
My favorite part about the Batman story is the whole thing about Bruce Wayne being a dad and all of his kids. So the Arkham games win by default because they actually include the kids.
Nolan thought he didn't need a Robin and then realized how necessary it is to Bruce's character. Still messed up though.
Nolan thought he didn't need a Robin and then realized how necessary it is to Bruce's character. Still messed up though.
And here I thought the Arkham games's combat was universally praised in the medium. To the point where other games have come to copy the combat system in it.
old manatee
Banned
Mask of the Phantasm or Burton's Batman Returns are GOATman.
Baldwin_the_First
Member
Only thing that has been "copied" is the defense portion. Or you might have a better idea as to how they can incorporoate defense in a game that wants you to be able to counter a opponent whitout the need of a dodge roll? Let's have it, I'm always intrigued by gameplay design ideas.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Suuuuuuuuure...
Lol, that guy with the assault rifle did a fantastic job.
True Savior
Member
I love Grant Morrison work in Batman as much as i can like a superhero run , but i read O'Neil as a kid and his impact is impossible for me to deny. And when i was a kid , i envsioned Batman in our world. Exactly the same expression Nolan bros ended up dictating in their movies. That's why its such a transcendental representation of Batman legacy. But Grant Morrison after those two triumphs everything.
Maaaaaardy
Member
Dark Knight is one of the best films ever, but Begins was meh and Rises was the worst movie i've ever seen.
So Rocksteady for me as the obvious 3 games were great and Origins at least looked nice.
So Rocksteady for me as the obvious 3 games were great and Origins at least looked nice.
Paul Dini wrote the first two Arkham games and Geoff Johns consulted on Arkham Knight.
I think the Arkhamverse is the best Batman trilogy we will ever get.
Knight > Rises
I don't know why people say Bruce Timm with regards to the golden age of the DCAU, I know he defined the look of the series'.
But wasn't Dini responsible for most of the writing?
And Timm isn't infallible. He changed the Joker's look to that black eyed look and liked it.
I think the Arkhamverse is the best Batman trilogy we will ever get.
Knight > Rises
I don't know why people say Bruce Timm with regards to the golden age of the DCAU, I know he defined the look of the series'.
But wasn't Dini responsible for most of the writing?
And Timm isn't infallible. He changed the Joker's look to that black eyed look and liked it.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Nolan.
The Rocksteady Batman is just a grim brooding dude. No character, no flaws, nothing. He just hits people and has always this face >:| no matter what.
He can fight a bunch of people dressed like bunnies on a clock floating through space, he doesn't care.
The Rocksteady Batman is just a grim brooding dude. No character, no flaws, nothing. He just hits people and has always this face >:| no matter what.
He can fight a bunch of people dressed like bunnies on a clock floating through space, he doesn't care.
Because it's a videogame and you're the goddamn Batman. It's your job to smash criminals' faces in.
Suuuuuuuuure...
Hahahahhaa fuck. That guy on the left tho.
SchrodingerC
Member
I give the edge to the Arkham games for a big reason:
Gotham had character.
What I mean by this is Gotham, the city and setting, always had an interesting look and atmosphere to it. Gotham is built like a 40's - 50's city infused with comic book flare. The games, the cartoons, and hell the recent tv show gave city character.
Nolan's gave us Chicago and Pittsburgh, and that's it. Yes, it was suppose to be a more realistic Batman universe, but he could have bother to make Gotham more unique.
Gotham had character.
What I mean by this is Gotham, the city and setting, always had an interesting look and atmosphere to it. Gotham is built like a 40's - 50's city infused with comic book flare. The games, the cartoons, and hell the recent tv show gave city character.
Nolan's gave us Chicago and Pittsburgh, and that's it. Yes, it was suppose to be a more realistic Batman universe, but he could have bother to make Gotham more unique.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Rocksteady because it's not actually ashamed of its source material and uses characters that aren't "realistic".
None of Batman's characters are realistic guys.
Discotheque
Banned
burton batverse >= nolan batverse > wb montreal > rocksteady > schumacher
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Morrison Bats is best Bats. He's so good he can bust into and win competitions that don't even involve him.
Nolan >>> Rocksteady
Rocksteady's Batman starts out as this great detective who turns into an arrogant dick and then into a full blown angry asshole over the course of 3 games, threatening petty thugs by running them over and becoming shocked at twists people saw coming miles away.
Nolan's Batman had no purpose, was lost, willing to risk it all for petty revenge, but the people around him changed him and tried focus him to give him purpose. At the end of the day, yeah, he was willing to risk it all, but at least he had purpose for the greater good when he did it.
Rocksteady's Batman starts out as this great detective who turns into an arrogant dick and then into a full blown angry asshole over the course of 3 games, threatening petty thugs by running them over and becoming shocked at twists people saw coming miles away.
Nolan's Batman had no purpose, was lost, willing to risk it all for petty revenge, but the people around him changed him and tried focus him to give him purpose. At the end of the day, yeah, he was willing to risk it all, but at least he had purpose for the greater good when he did it.
Riposte
Member
Remember that time Joker turned into a hulking creature with a mohawk and the boss fight mainly consisted of fighting his goons?
matrix-cat
Member
I loved Rocksteady's universe. There was a real sense that Batman had been at this a while; he was on conversational terms with all his villains, often willing to work alongside them. I loved his relationship with Freeze in Arkham City; Batman needs his help at first, so he rescues Freeze from the Penguin and sets him up in the GCPD. The next time they meet, Freeze pushes things too far and they end up fighting, but once Batman beats him they're back to a cautious respect. Batman even helps Freeze track down his wife, whose body has been taken by one of the other villains in the city.
There are lots of other examples like this, like Batman telling Ivy 'Don't be here when I get back' in the first game (of course she doesn't listen
). It really felt like we were stumbling upon a lived-in universe, and it was written well enough that there was no need for origin stories or any heavy exposition. They basically just aged up The Animated Series a little bit.
There are lots of other examples like this, like Batman telling Ivy 'Don't be here when I get back' in the first game (of course she doesn't listen
). It really felt like we were stumbling upon a lived-in universe, and it was written well enough that there was no need for origin stories or any heavy exposition. They basically just aged up The Animated Series a little bit.Delta Assault
Member
I just had this exchange in Arkham Knight:
LOL wtf? What shit writing. Batman's the world's greatest detective, but he couldn't see that coming.
LOL wtf? What shit writing. Batman's the world's greatest detective, but he couldn't see that coming.
BalishChannel
Banned
Burton >>> Almost everything else.
manueldelalas
Time Traveler
I'll give the edge to Nolanverse.
In fact, I'm sure that without the existence of Batman Begins; the budget of Batman AA would have been different; and we would have received the typical mediocre Batman game.
We should thank Nolan that made such an awesome movie, for all the Batman, and superhero movie, renaissance.
In fact, I'm sure that without the existence of Batman Begins; the budget of Batman AA would have been different; and we would have received the typical mediocre Batman game.
We should thank Nolan that made such an awesome movie, for all the Batman, and superhero movie, renaissance.
Revolutionary
Member
Rocksteady for sure. I love Batman Begins, though.
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