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[B.K.]

The player's character in Final Fantasy XI.

Spoiler

Your character in Final Fantasy XI literally becomes a god for a short time in Rhapsodies of Vana'diel.

 

[Manmademan]

It is not about what Ramza can't do, but what he can do; which is to say, almost anything. Against any enemy he faces, it is simply a question of when he will win. Using almost any means, he can overcome his opponents.... Even Wiegraf. Speed, power, durability, spells, summoning, range, healing, utilility; against a lone foe or many--rest assured, Ramza can do it all. It is just a matter of how experienced we assume Ramza is by the end of FFT.


To decide between fighter, a mage, or something more? "Well," Ramza would say, "why doth thy select but one?"

Spoiler

Though I will submit that Orlandeau was always more powerful in terms of raw damage output. Fortunately this isn't about side-characters.

So...how would Ramza take out Bartz, or Yuna from FFX-2? Those games have the same job system with more hilariously broken jobs.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Ramza is the most normal guy out of any protagonist. He's literally no different than the other characters in his game, even nameless mooks.

 

[Manmademan]

Ramza is the most normal guy out of any protagonist. He's literally no different than the other characters in his game, even nameless mooks.

except for the ability to learn ultima, yes.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Ramza is the most normal guy out of any protagonist. He's literally no different than the other characters in his game, even nameless mooks.

He killed evil Jesus though. And he is the descendant of the person who first killed evil Jesus, suggesting it wasn't sheer luck -- it was his destiny.

 

[CrimsonSquall]

Ramza is the most normal guy out of any protagonist. He's literally no different than the other characters in his game, even nameless mooks.

But they can't use shout tho

Okay so forreal it's obviously not fair to count Lightning anything past XIII bc she got 2 other games to upgrade and flesh out her skillset.

I think by endgame, Noctis will be the strongest FF protagonist. Warping can't be overshadowed

 

[Manmademan]

But they can't use shout tho

Okay so forreal it's obviously not fair to count Lightning anything past XIII bc she got 2 other games to upgrade and flesh out her skillset.

I think by endgame, Noctis will be the strongest FF protagonist. Warping can't be overshadowed

Cloud had 2 (lol)

Yuna had 2

Vaan and Penelo had 2

The FFIV cast had 2

Lightning had three- but was only in XIII-2 for like five minutes, and was defeated by the antagonist of that game.

 

[InfiniDragon]

I... am not sure if you want to really go into the idea of completely abandoning gameplay as a consideration, since that eliminates a lot of the grounding and logic for this discussion. It also has the secondary effect of making the avatar from Final Fantasy XIV shoot up in the power tier by several levels.

I mean, the finale of FFXIV: Heavensward involves fighting

Spoiler

the entire Knights of the Round, who are feasting on the power of the Warring Triad from FFVI.

Gameplay wise, this is an 8-man fight. But story-wise, the main character does this fight solo.

Spoiler

The Knights of the Round even use Ultimate End during the battle, and the Warrior of Light breaks their way out of that and kills all of the Knights in the process.

Focusing on gameplay moderates these feats quite significantly, but focusing on pure story power, the Warrior of Light is an invincible god-slaying avatar of destruction. The Echo is broken as hell, too.

I don't see how Calculators really contradict any of the plot or story though. Unlike the Super Nova example, there is nothing they do that violates any of the logic of the game world. They just use really powerful magic. Magicians and sorcerers are obviously part of the game's lore; there are cities who famous for the magicians, and the Legendary Lands and Artifacts reference powerful magic all the time. There also isn't usually any huge disconnect between game lore and gameplay either. For example, Orlandu is exactly as amazing of a swordsman gameplay-wise as he is lore-wise.

Yeah that was kinda my point about XIV WoL (EDIT: In case it isn't clear, I'm current with XIV's story and have an active account haha), canon-wise he or she'd wipe the floor with most FF characters, hero or villain. And I see your point on Calculators; even though there's no in-game cutscenes or anything like that showing their stuff, FFT doesn't really radically deviate from what the characters should be able to do realistically in their world, so they theoretically would be able to drop insta-nukes.

And I should mention I'm not against including gameplay stuff strictly (after all, we all know Cloud can actually Omnislash someone, he doesn't fight like a normal schmuck with a sword), I just thought that the topic creator wasn't necessarily talking game combat based on the use of "canon" in the title.

Lightning had three- but was only in XIII-2 for like five minutes, and was defeated by the antagonist of that game.

Light actually getting rekt will never stop being funny, especially given the creator of that game's obsession with her. It's almost like he had her take a dive on purpose so he could get away with making her a super badass later.

"Don't worry about it bae, just pretend he beat you this once and I'll make you a goddess, and a fashion model, and you'll live in France!"

 

[shark sandwich]

I have to disagree with Black Belt (currently leading the polls).

Yeah, he has SLIGHTLY higher damage output than Fighter, without having to buy weapons for him. But he also takes a shit ton more damage and needs constant healing. He's also the only one who never learns any magic.

 

[SkyOdin]

Ramza is the most normal guy out of any protagonist. He's literally no different than the other characters in his game, even nameless mooks.

Ramza does have a unique quality, actually. Besides his upgraded Squire job, Ramza gets better stat growths than other characters. In FFT, male characters get extra physical attack power when they level up, while female characters get extra magic attack power. However, Ramza has the physical attack growth of a male character, and the magic attack growth of a female character.

What this means is that Ramza makes a really good Bard.

 

[KittenMaster]

I have to disagree with Black Belt (currently leading the polls).

Yeah, he has SLIGHTLY higher damage output than Fighter, without having to buy weapons for him. But he also takes a shit ton more damage and needs constant healing. He's also the only one who never learns any magic.

He also does terrible damage until you level him up (and is stuck with a weapon with 0% added accuracy until he can fight bare handed), and then you have to level him more than you actually need to beat the game to get him to out-perform the Knight.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

except for the ability to learn ultima, yes.

Damn, I forgot about that. That's still not much compared to the usual lead character, though.

Ramza does have a unique quality, actually. Besides his upgraded Squire job, Ramza gets better stat growths than other characters. In FFT, male characters get extra physical attack power when they level up, while female characters get extra magic attack power. However, Ramza has the physical attack growth of a male character, and the magic attack growth of a female character.

What this means is that Ramza makes a really good Bard.

I never knew this either. Maybe Ramza is best suited for leadership/support. He does lead an army...

 

[SoundPulse]

I have to disagree with Black Belt (currently leading the polls).

Yeah, he has SLIGHTLY higher damage output than Fighter, without having to buy weapons for him. But he also takes a shit ton more damage and needs constant healing. He's also the only one who never learns any magic.

The main issue is that he's just boring. He starts off punching stuff, and he ends the game punching stuff. Thief is a more interesting #2 pick, imo.


Of course, four White Mages is the party of kings and professionals.

 

[Manmademan]

Damn, I forgot about that. That's still not much compared to the usual lead character, though.

depends on how you look at it.

There was no lead character in FF1.

never played through 2 or 3, so can't comment there.

Cecil in FFIV is actually shockingly weak for a lead- he's basically a standard knight at the end of the game with a handful of not very useful healing spells, the ability to take damage for other character automatically, and the ability to use a couple of holy elemental weapons.

FFV uses the job system- Bartz isn't any stronger than the rest of that cast.

FFVI has no definitive lead- but if it did it would be either Terra or Celes...both of which aren't really all that great as mages, as I mentioned before every caster in FFIV outclasses them by a mile, and they don't have unique skills worth writing home about.

Cloud is pretty boss in FFVII, no argument there

Squall isn't unique in FF8. His abilities come from equipping a guardian force- and the entire garden he's from can do the same- there's no real distinction between the cast members outside of limit breaks. Squall's is powerful, but its not the strongest one in that game, Selphie's is.

Zidane kind of sucks in FF9, honestly. Quina though is laughably overpowered with Frog Drop.

Tidus...isn't all that useful in FFX? Without deviating to other paths on the sphere grid, hes agile but that's about the extent of his usefulness outside of blitzball. Yuna though is the strongest character in FF history, thanks to being able to call Yojimbo at will.

Vaan in FFXII is literally a blank slate that adds nothing. You could argue that Ashe is actually the lead (and I believe this) but in terms of skills she doesn't have any unique abilities over the rest of that cast either- their skills all come from espers they pick up and licenses they buy in the store.

The cast of FFXIII is the only ones since IV that are notably and demonstrably more powerful than everyone else walking around in the game world sans Caius in XIII-2 and XIII-3, - and Lightning is pretty much a goddess by the end of that (mess of a) trilogy. Of course, everyone on the planet is immortal by then because of reasons so that's not saying all that much

 

[TheGreatDirector]

Everyone that voted for Black Mage knows what's up.

I'd say the Emperor from FF2 is pretty powerful though.

His death allowed him to take over both Heaven and Hell which means he had to overthrow both god and the devil.

 

[AlphaDragoon]

FFXIV's main character is stupidly OP. Defeating "godlike" characters is a day at the office for the FFXIV WoL, literally.

 

[Aters]

Bartz Klauser is the most capable.

Dude has mastered over two dozen different fighting styles, knows over 5 different schools of magic, is a dancer, can play Schubert, Mozart and Debussy on the piano, can fight just as well wearing pajamas or furry costumes, and can even creep on sleeping people undetected to check if they're male or female. His only weakness is his fear of height.

You forgot the best part: dude comes with a chocobo.

 

[random25]

Disable. Dude was supposed to destroy the planet by himself.

 

[Kagari]

Warrior of Light from Final Fantasy XIV. Bahamut? Knights of the Round? Alexander? No problem.

 

[True Fire]

In the context of her shithole universe, Lightning isn't really that powerful. The world is destroyed and reformed twice, Gods are dying left and right--you blow on a God too hard and it dies, and Etro has died an infinite number of times thanks to Caius.

In the Final Fantasy IV universe, a knight slaying an alien abomination is a lot more impressive. Plus they kill the God of the Multiverse in the sequel.

 

[Manmademan]

You forgot the best part: dude comes with a chocobo.

so does FFXIII-3 Lightning.

In the context of her shithole universe, Lightning isn't really that powerful. The world is destroyed and reformed twice, Gods are dying left and right--you blow on a God too hard and it dies, and Etro has died an infinite number of times thanks to Caius.

In the Final Fantasy IV universe, a knight slaying an alien abomination is a lot more impressive. Plus they kill the God of the Multiverse in the sequel.

Dude, spoilers.

Seriously though- "killing god!" isn't much of a feat for FF. it happens constantly. Lightning IS substantially more powerful than even capable fighters in the FFXIII universe by the time Lightning Returns rolls around. Can't hate on her, she's legit.

However, since we're talking Gods, Vaan and Crew defeated this thing:

Strongest of the scions created by the gods, they feared his growth, and so kept him a child. So indomitable is his strength that all things are by him twisted and pressed into oblivion. He alone fashions the laws governing all things, and administers punishment in place of the gods. So is he Keeper of Precepts, and his authority is absolute.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Zodiark_(summon)#Final_Fantasy_XII

and put it on a leash. It's not even the final boss!

 

[Loona]

I have to disagree with Black Belt (currently leading the polls).

Yeah, he has SLIGHTLY higher damage output than Fighter, without having to buy weapons for him. But he also takes a shit ton more damage and needs constant healing. He's also the only one who never learns any magic.

"No weapons, no magic, no problem" is the black belt motto - if dodging is an option, damage taken is less of an issue.

Anyway:

There was actually a weird discussion about which mainline FF protagonist* (i.e. cecil, terra, zidane, tidus, etc) would be hardest to defeat in a fight (assuming they had access to all canon equipment and were max level)
and weirdly enough it seems as if Vaan from FFXII was the hardest to kill, because there's an item in that game that reverses the effect of all curative items, turning them lethal.

Items, unlike spells and physical attacks can't be blocked by any skill that exists in any FF, including "invincible" in FFVIII. A thrown megalixer would bust MP and HP down to 1 no matter how high max level was, Xpotions do unblockable nonelemental damage, a phoenix down is fatal, and a remedy hits the target with every debilitating status in the game.

On top of that the "combo" mechanic that exists within FFXII allows for Vaan to hit up to a dozen times at 9999 damage in a single turn, and the entire cast is capable of summoning espers as battle partners with separate HP/MP pools and skills- which only Yuna in FFX is able to do.

If Yuna is allowable she MIGHT be the hardest to defeat, since Yojimbo's "Zanmato" will one shot kill anything in its path, including things immune to physical/magic/death damage regardless of HP or defenses. If Yuna's relationship with Yojimbo is positive enough (this builds over time), you can guarantee a "Zanmato" by throwing enough money at him.

Regarding max damage, in XI reaching 99,999 damage is possible, there's actually a recent achievement for that (I think it involves magic bursting).

Summoning multiple entities with their own abilities and HP/MP pools? XI's Trust NPC system isn't just a convenient gameplay mechanic for soloing, it's been established as a canon story ability on two separate occasions, the latter of which involved summoning 19 of them with different roles - one of them being Shantotto, perfectly capable of chain-casting multiple Meteors.
The ability to summon the essence of another individual is separate from that of summoning avatars while using the summoner job in the game.

And then there's all the possible defensive buffs one can apply, including stuff like Stoneskin (blocks everything up to a certain value of damage, which can be adjusted with stat buffs).

 

[Manmademan]

"No weapons, no magic, no problem" is the black belt motto - if dodging is an option, damage taken is less of an issue.

Anyway:



Regarding max damage, in XI reaching 99,999 damage is possible, there's actually a recent achievement for that (I think it involves magic bursting).

Summoning multiple entities with their own abilities and HP/MP pools? XI's Trust NPC system isn't just a convenient gameplay mechanic for soloing, it's been established as a canon story ability on two separate occasions, the latter of which involved summoning 19 of them with different roles - one of them being Shantotto, perfectly capable of chain-casting multiple Meteors.
The ability to summon the essence of another individual is separate from that of summoning avatars while using the summoner job in the game.

And then there's all the possible defensive buffs one can apply, including stuff like Stoneskin (blocks everything up to a certain value of damage, which can be adjusted with stat buffs).

I didn't play the online FF's, XI and XIV because they aren't my thing. I'll accept the explanation though, kudos.

 

[StoneFox]

Bartz Klauser is the most capable.

Dude has mastered over two dozen different fighting styles, knows over 5 different schools of magic, is a dancer, can play Schubert, Mozart and Debussy on the piano, can fight just as well wearing pajamas or furry costumes, and can even creep on sleeping people undetected to check if they're male or female. His only weakness is his fear of height.

Yeah I'm going to have to agree with this. And with the power of a blue mage he'll just steal your best abilities and use them against you.

 

[Manmademan]

Yeah I'm going to have to agree with this. And with the power of a blue mage he'll just steal your best abilities and use them against you.

yeah but...

is pretty much the same thing

 

[Loona]

yeah but...



is pretty much the same thing

And XI also uses blue mage as a job, and there are even passive bonuses for setting certain spells.

 

[Indelible]

I gotta go with Lightning, she is a complete beast in XIII and LR.

 

[SilverArrow20XX]

Lightning had three- but was only in XIII-2 for like five minutes, and was defeated by the antagonist of that game.

To be fair, she was stuck in a time loop type situation where no matter how many times she defeated Caius he just kept coming back until she finally lost. It was inevitable that she would eventually slip up, even after defeating him thousands of times. Caius only won because he had infinite continues and Lightning had 1 stock.

 

[SuperAngelo64]

Comes from the 'Soviet Russia' version of the FF leveling system.

Dude literally gets stronger by getting hit and pretending to fight.

 

[ethomaz]

Saddly you said "protagonist", because Cidolfas "Thunder God" Orlandu can mop the floor with basically anyone on FF.

This.

You know when it is called "very baby" mode.

Even the others characters with the same special class are ridiculous weak condors with him.

Lightning never made the game this level is easy.

 

[LurkerPrime]

So...how would Ramza take out Bartz, or Yuna from FFX-2? Those games have the same job system with more hilariously broken jobs.

I've never played either of their respective games and know almost nothing about them, buuuut... Focus and Yell, aka prep time, getting stronger and faster every turn and healing when necessary. Just like against Wiegraf.

It all comes back to Wiegraf; definitive proof that men are stronger than gods.

 

[n0razi]

Cid Orlandu...

 

[Khrno]

Black Mages are always overpowered.

 

[wsoxfan1214]

FFXIV's Warrior of Light and it isn't even that close, really.

 

[Khrno]

FFXIV's BLM Warrior of Light and it isn't even that close, really.

Indeed.

 

[jiggle]

It's stella

 

[The Last One]

Nah even Mickey isn't as strong as Sora or Riku and they don't touch the higher tier FF protagonists.

Well, Sora literally cut buildings into pieces in KH II.

 

[Kieli]

In the Advent Children commentary, they mentioned that since the movie takes place after the game, all of the party members are lvl 99.

But since Cloud never stopped training, he managed to break his level cap and reached a level beyond 99, putting him on even ground against Sephiroth.

The Turks, meanwhile, never reached 99 and are somewhere around the 70's.

Yeah, well Cloud has 255 every single stat 'cuz I farmed the sweet buttery shit outta him.

 

[Eusis]

THIEF is pretty bad guys. IIRC the only class that is basically impossible to solo the game with. Like, I might include one in my party, but it's not a very powerful or capable class in FF. Didn't even gain the Steal command until later games.

I don't know why people are voting that. Objectively bad choice, period, it must be a gag pick

Spoiler

or because it's supposed to be a stand in vote for Zidane or something since the topic was really about ACTUAL characters and not classes.

 

[Aselith]

Warrior of Light from Final Fantasy XIV. Bahamut? Knights of the Round? Alexander? No problem.

Titan is very much a problem though

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Comes from the 'Soviet Russia' version of the FF leveling system.

Dude literally gets stronger by getting hit and pretending to fight.

This is the best description of Final Fantasy II's mechanics that I have ever seen.

 

[Fj0823]

Its Savior Lightning.

 

[Squishy3]

Titan is very much a problem though

Not the one you canonically fight, he only landslides in one direction!

 

[Varna]

Power levels in JRPGs always bugged the shit out of me. The combat is just completely abstract since none of the characters actually use these ridiculous skills when they make the most sense. I can't count the number of times someone is dying of thirst or is bleeding to death and no one can do a goddamn thing. Motherfucker, you can conquer up water and raise the death? How is this a problem?

Anyhow, it makes any feats these characters accomplish impossible to measure.

 

[Taruranto]

FFXIV WoL is probably the weakest since the average FFXIV player has no

Spoiler

skill.

:C

If this was a dress-up content, now...

 

[Nocturno999]

That's between Lightning and Auron. Auron was a support character though.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

That's between Lightning and Auron. Auron was a support character though.

Auron wouldn't last long in a battle to the death though.

 

[Ozigizo]

It's Gogo, the true protagonist of FF 6.

 

[Renesis]

FFXIV's WARRIOR of Light.
Nothing survives triple God Cleave.

 

[Manmademan]

I've never played either of their respective games and know almost nothing about them, buuuut... Focus and Yell, aka prep time, getting stronger and faster every turn and healing when necessary. Just like against Wiegraf.

It all comes back to Wiegraf; definitive proof that men are stronger than gods.

you should probably play them at some point, then come back.