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Who Is The Most Powerful in MCU?
- Thread starter Marion Cobretti
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TheGreatDirector
Banned
Too bad Marvel didn't try to go for classic Kingpin.
Shadow_Lord
Member
Can I get a link to that Cap vs Master Chief thread? Thanks.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
what the fuck? cap was like 40+ years old doing crazy shit humans cannot do without being in the hospital long before any marvel handbook or tcg used the terms superhuman or peak human. If a peak human attempted the shit cap does without flinching we'd be at their funeral or wheel chair christening. Cap in the 616 has fought hulk he can out fight him for a long time, but hulk don't get tired, after days Cap does.
I loved that fight. Cap just tripping Hulk and throwing him out of the room.
And when Cap tried putting a choke hold on Hulk, all Hulk said was, "Cap, I didn't know you cared."
Right here
Jack Remington
Banned
Tony seems to be as strong or as weak as the plot demands. Lots of great feats, but then you'll see him job to Cap or Spiderman or whoever else needs to beat him.
Still, no comic has done quite so much indignity to Iron Man as Shane Black did to him in IM3. An IM suit flies apart after getting hit by a truck like it was a Frogger arcade machine.
I thought Civil War handled the IM vs Spiderman matchup pretty well in the strike 1, strike 2... battle. That's about how it should go.
I'm probably a little biased since Extremis is my favorite comic of all time and the one that really got me into Marvel. Seeing Tony job so hard so often after starting off with that is pretty painful.
Still, no comic has done quite so much indignity to Iron Man as Shane Black did to him in IM3. An IM suit flies apart after getting hit by a truck like it was a Frogger arcade machine.
I thought Civil War handled the IM vs Spiderman matchup pretty well in the strike 1, strike 2... battle. That's about how it should go.
I'm probably a little biased since Extremis is my favorite comic of all time and the one that really got me into Marvel. Seeing Tony job so hard so often after starting off with that is pretty painful.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
Jack Remington
Banned
Kingpin was OP as fuck in the Spiderman animated series.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
SPiderman is one of the best fighters in the entire marvel U but even he is below, Cap, Taskmaster, Wolverine, Gamora, and Thanos.
Wolverine could kill Spiderman , and he knows it
DD stay catching spiderman because of his environmental awareness
everyone HATES Taskmaster and his 50 escape plans for every fight
so its not out of the question that a guy who warms up with 1100lbs on the bench could fight spiderman.
Plenty of spider foes are weaker than that and cause him trouble with fighting ability , energy, etc etc, Shiang Chi beat up Spider Man too , but Cap can't land a left hook? Nah
hit up 500 on the curl bar after his agility training
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
Jack Remington
Banned
FAP!
Parker is like Wolverine, he jobs when the story needs him to. We're talking about the guy who took on the entire X-Men roster to include Cyclops who's got crazy tactical skills and environmental awareness (honestly, that should be his secondary mutation, his accuracy and spatial awareness is well beyond any human's).
Jack Remington
Banned
I'm like 99% sure that canonically that is his secondary mutation.
Nope, it's attracting world class telepaths.
Best Kingpin. Master of exits, had a fucking super cool plane that fired lasers, always one-up on Spider-Man.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
If you are a fan of Extremis you would know the hosts can rip thru Tony's best armors with ease.
As for Mark 42, that thing was a prototype which was badly damaged and shoddily repaired by some kid. Of course it gets rekt by a truck. Have some common sense, good man.
Jack Remington
Banned
Mallen wrecks Tony in his classic armor. After the Extremis upgrade it's a total curb stomp by IM. Issue 6 has some really badass panels. Great fight even though it's one-sided.
I would have much preferred an IM3 where Tony goes head to head with Killian in a single suit and wins. The shit with 50 different suits all getting torn apart was just annoying. God, Shane Black wasted a good story.
If we accept that as a realistic portrayal of Tony's ability in the MCU, then he probably would lose to Spiderman. Hell, Mr. Fantastic probably beats him.
I would have much preferred an IM3 where Tony goes head to head with Killian in a single suit and wins. The shit with 50 different suits all getting torn apart was just annoying. God, Shane Black wasted a good story.
If we accept that as a realistic portrayal of Tony's ability in the MCU, then he probably would lose to Spiderman. Hell, Mr. Fantastic probably beats him.
karasu
Member
Comics are infuriating with all their contradictory stories and power levels. How the fuck is the Kingpin stronger or as strong as Spider-Man? And Spider-Man beating the X-Men is dumb. Their villains are far more powerful and dangerous than anything he faces. I have a hard time believing that you would be shook by a tumbling teenager after you've faced someone like Magneto/Apocalypse/Onslaught/whoever. He beat the X-Men by himself easier than the Phalanx did as a collective. That's just dumb.
That sounds cheesy.
Shane Black did a great service to Tony by defining him as a hero without needing to wear the suit. Like breaking into Mandarin conpound with MacGuyvered gadgets, like having his suits fail on him and winning by using them in creative way. That partial suit fight sequence was inspired Hollywood.
It's like back the old one-off comic issues of him where he was stripped of everything but still able to use his ingenuity to do a lot of good.
Finaika
Member
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
the xmen were trying to get him to talk not kick his ass or he would've been toast it's clear from the speech bubbles.
User 73706
Banned
This thread has already gone off the rails, so retrospectively speaking it'd be interesting to see the Cap vs Chief debate revisited using Halo 5: Guardians-era updates - that is, Cap versus all of Blue Team in their new GEN-II suits and whatnot.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
Manmademan
Member
the IM suits tend to have great tech, but aren't known for being particularly durable when not using shields or whatever. Spidey being able to shred one isn't really that unusual. Parker is a LOT stronger than he lets on.
Spidey tends to get bodied by better MA's all the time. Taskmaster has schooled him more than once, and Taskmaster cannot take out Cap.
so was that. lighten up, chief.
Jack Remington
Banned
When did Spidey actually shred an IM suit? I remember him tying IM up with webbing in Civil War, but never read the shredding issue.
bigboss370
Member
well, in the latest Avengers, didn't Tony beat Hulk with "veronica" (hulkbuster)? i get that scarlets power was wearing away and hulk was realizing the damage going on...but that last punch from tony..wouldn't hulk just get angry all over again?
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
i think taht punch was to symbolize that the control she had on him was gone. Hulk getting punched back into banner mode is common.
Manmademan
Member
not necessarily. hulk's power is proportionate to how angry he is. With the mind control wearing off, he wasn't angry, just confused.
Sucker punching him when he's distracted could certainly KO him. stranger things have happened.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
In the MCU it would be Tony Stark. Most resources and can seemingly do anything with science from cure extremis to create pin-point small flying machine pieces that attach to him. He also creates AI.
Thor may pose a challenge at first but Tony will eventually over come him in some dumb way.
Thor may pose a challenge at first but Tony will eventually over come him in some dumb way.
Manmademan
Member
what, you want to put cap against a team of spartans? hardly fair.
Pym is implied to be at least as smart as Tony is in Ant-Man. This one is debatable.
Manmademan
Member
why would they? galactus isn't in the MCU.
User 73706
Banned
Based on the original thread Cap could eat 56 Chiefs for breakfast while blindfolded and in complete darkness while reciting the Constitution, so if we're taking comic power creep fuckery into account I think it's worth looking into.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Then whoever out sciences the other. They all have the power to come back because they're popular.
Manmademan
Member
Tell us how you really feel.
Seriously though- Cap's powerlevel is pretty consistent. The issue arises when people assume he's just a well trained athlete, or at "peak human" levels like batman is. He isn't, and never has been, despite what some dubious handbooks from the 1980s might have said.
Cap is an enhanced human, moderately less strong and agile than spiderman is but not by a significant margin- but WAY, WAY more skilled than anyone else running around and leverages this to some pretty crazy wins.
Jack Remington
Banned
I feel like a lot of comic characters have a few insane feats that some writer once upon a time thought would be awesome, but which don't really represent their ability in the typical comic. Like Iron Man at one point tanked a nuke with his shields at 4% power, but he's almost never written as that durable. Spiderman beat down Firelord (though I actually really like this one, fuck heralds). Namor KO'd the Hulk once, etc.
You could cobble up enough feats to argue anything really. I just don't believe that Cap as depicted on the average page of the average comic he's in would curb stomp the Chief.
Maybe Master Chief just needs his own comic series where he can do some ridiculous shit and raise his standing.
Edit: I don't really want to get too into this though. You go too far down this path, you end up arguing about whether or not a TIE fighter can one-shot a Borg Cube based on the fact that the special-effects team in Empire Strikes Back used a certain color in an explosion once.
You could cobble up enough feats to argue anything really. I just don't believe that Cap as depicted on the average page of the average comic he's in would curb stomp the Chief.
Maybe Master Chief just needs his own comic series where he can do some ridiculous shit and raise his standing.
Edit: I don't really want to get too into this though. You go too far down this path, you end up arguing about whether or not a TIE fighter can one-shot a Borg Cube based on the fact that the special-effects team in Empire Strikes Back used a certain color in an explosion once.
User 73706
Banned
My beef's with the shield more than it is with cap. When you have to rely on wonky platforming collision detection to squeeze a win out of a hand-to-hand fight, I think the shield's a little too beefy.
Ironically, Chief stays (relatively) grounded in the novels and comics because he's basically the straight man to his fellow Spartans; his teammates pull crazy shit pretty frequently (killing a Hunter barehanded by ripping worms out, killing Banshee pilots by headshotting them through the crack between the cockpit and the "carapace," as they're zooming through Covenant airspace, while hanging upside-down, hitting 100km/h, etc.) while Chief's action typically consists more of well-laid planning and combat tactics with the occasional backflip. It's the games where he's at his most overpowered because of the engine limitations: see hitscan bullets (in other words, the second he fires the trigger enemies don't have time to get out of the way), sword-flying, infinite Active Camo glitch, BXR, superbouncing, etc.
That being said, the games also give him some glaring weaknesses, such as dying in more than 6 feet of water and immediately keeling over if a vehicle hits him at any speed.
Manmademan
Member
Generally when comic debates come up, feats that are wildly out of character high or low get ignored even if they are canon- see every loss to squirrel girl by anyone ever. Spiderman vs. Firelord is in the same boat. Never should have happened so it gets tossed out. Namor though is absolutely strong enough to knock hulk out- He's been spotted lifting battleships and whatnot.
wonky or not, what the shield can do is pretty well established. Yes cap relies on it, but the Mjolnir armor would be pretty OP on its own. Someone in the other thread was talking about it being able to allow the user to survive a drop from orbit. Ok, that's fine it is what it is.
Cap is skilled enough to beat just about anyone H2H even without it. But when you're fighting a dude in head to toe armor you have to at least give him some offense.
edit: shit. get rid of the classic shield and just go with Photonic and he wins even faster.
Jack Remington
Banned
What if it's clear that a particular writer can't write a certain character or has a different opinion of that character's power level than most other writers?
Hickman's New Avengers run has Black Panther fucking up Namor in hand to hand combat. Now this is after BP's upgrades, but Namor doesn't look like a battleship lifter in those showings.
Or can we disregard every Iron Man showing in a J. Michael Straczynski work since it's clear Straczynski despises the character?
Hickman's New Avengers run has Black Panther fucking up Namor in hand to hand combat. Now this is after BP's upgrades, but Namor doesn't look like a battleship lifter in those showings.
Or can we disregard every Iron Man showing in a J. Michael Straczynski work since it's clear Straczynski despises the character?
Manmademan
Member
Marvel Editors not writers have the final say about what happens in the book. It's up to them to decide if something wildly out of character sees print, not a particular writer- and editors rarely turn over. The concept that a writer can just "do whatever" with a character they like or dislike is false.
The New Avengers run DOES have BP going toe to toe with Namor. and this isn't out of character. BP as lord of the dead has the combined strength of every Black Panther that's ever existed. He did this to black dwarf in infinity:
So...yeah, panther is OP. We don't know HOW strong panther was after that bump but clearly he's in namor's class.
On top of that, namor weakens the longer he's out of water (or out of a suit that maintains his moisture) and BP's black suit is a vibranium weave and nulls out most impact damage.
so he was just there for the show? lucky guy
Manmademan
Member
Kinda? it's implied that he had a hand in the rebuilding process- but he had nothing to do with the plan or implementation of taking out the beyonders themselves.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
I don't find that terribly convincing given the anecdotal nature of it all. He OK'ed Ironfist while half possessed just due to Spider sense telling him to punch. (Ironfist was scared shitless at the prospect of a possessed Spidey as an opponent and was trying to sucker punch him before the posession took full hold.)
Spidey's super strong (complete with extra dense muscles that standard muggers etc claim is like punching a steel wall) , super fast, has hardwired super reflexes, has tons of fighting experience.
On paper, Daredevil and the peak human types shouldn't even be able to hurt him, much less take out in a hand to hand fight.
Jack Remington
Banned
You can't say something like this and then not get up in said asses.
Spiderman jobs it sometimes, shrug. Otherwise his strength, intellect and speed make him easily Avenger 1st tier.
The reason I lost interest in Batman and Spiderman is both are supposed to be underdogs yet are actually overpowered as hell.
Jack Remington
Banned
Yeah, Batman would solo the MCU fairly easily.
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