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[Marion Cobretti]

So, based on everything I've read, it seems like it's Hulk. Although that's a bit weird since he seemed kinda gimped right?

Any ways, I think Hulk could very well win in a strength drag race, but I still think Spidey will be the most effective hero in the MCU in due time.

 

[Slayven]

Daredevil was train by a ninja wizard, just saying his peak human undersells him

 

[ntropy]

Kinda? it's implied that he had a hand in the rebuilding process- but he had nothing to do with the plan or implementation of taking out the beyonders themselves.

but he told Richards "we killed them"

 

[Jack Remington]

Well he was there. Kind of like how Adam Morrison has won an NBA championship.

 

[ntropy]

Well he was there. Kind of like how Adam Morrison has won an NBA championship.

so did Adam Morrison decline "omnipotence" as well?

 

[Jack Remington]

No, the Lakers declined to renew his contract after the 2010 season.

 

[Manmademan]

I don't find that terribly convincing given the anecdotal nature of it all. He OK'ed Ironfist while half possessed just due to Spider sense telling him to punch. (Ironfist was scared shitless at the prospect of a possessed Spidey as an opponent and was trying to sucker punch him before the posession took full hold.)

Spidey's super strong (complete with extra dense muscles that standard muggers etc claim is like punching a steel wall) , super fast, has hardwired super reflexes, has tons of fighting experience.

On paper, Daredevil and the peak human types shouldn't even be able to hurt him, much less take out in a hand to hand fight.

Why am I still up? I dunno. Duty calls since slayven is falling down on the job.

Here's the things with Marvel MA's. Kung fu is itself pretty much a superpower. Top tier masters (iron fist, shang chi, tasky, daredevil, cap) can punch way above their weight class using crazy things like predictive movement and nerve strikes to reverse momentum, paralyze opponents, lock joints, and KO opponents that otherwise would be bricks.

Spidey is in a class by himself because spider sense is literally precognitive and will tell him where strikes are coming from before they happen. That combined with crazy strength and speed mean most opponents get ruined before they know what happened.

HOWEVER, Spidey relies on spider sense as a crutch, and his emotional state can vary it's effectiveness down to zero. If THAT happens he's kind of screwed since Spiderman never HAD to learn to fight like Cap, Daredevil, etc. Top tier MAs CAN get the jump on him when this happens and he gets wrecked.

The scans above where he's angry, possessed, etc show this. This changed after shang chi trained him how to actually fight after spider island, but it hasn't really been explored since.

 

[ntropy]

No, the Lakers declined to renew his contract after the 2010 season.

 

[BKatastrophe]

Marvel Editors not writers have the final say about what happens in the book. It's up to them to decide if something wildly out of character sees print, not a particular writer- and editors rarely turn over. The concept that a writer can just "do whatever" with a character they like or dislike is false.

The New Avengers run DOES have BP going toe to toe with Namor. and this isn't out of character. BP as lord of the dead has the combined strength of every Black Panther that's ever existed. He did this to black dwarf in infinity:

So...yeah, panther is OP. We don't know HOW strong panther was after that bump but clearly he's in namor's class.

On top of that, namor weakens the longer he's out of water (or out of a suit that maintains his moisture) and BP's black suit is a vibranium weave and nulls out most impact damage.

Also fun fact:

He's pretty OP in Marvel Ultimate Alliance.

Why am I still up? I dunno. Duty calls since slayven is falling down on the job.

Here's the things with Marvel MA's. Kung fu is itself pretty much a superpower. Top tier masters (iron fist, shang chi, tasky, daredevil, cap) can punch way above their weight class using crazy things like predictive movement and nerve strikes to reverse momentum, paralyze opponents, lock joints, and KO opponents that otherwise would be bricks.

Spidey is in a class by himself because spider sense is literally precognitive and will tell him where strikes are coming from before they happen. That combined with crazy strength and speed mean most opponents get ruined before they know what happened.

HOWEVER, Spidey relies on spider sense as a crutch, and his emotional state can vary it's effectiveness down to zero. If THAT happens he's kind of screwed since Spiderman never HAD to learn to fight like Cap, Daredevil, etc. Top tier MAs CAN get the jump on him when this happens and he gets wrecked.

The scans above where he's angry, possessed, etc show this. This changed after shang chi trained him how to actually fight after spider island, but it hasn't really been explored since.

Knowing how to fight makes all the difference. That being said, it's also why characters like Batman are OP as well. Batman hasn't been played as the underdog in years. He's one of the top 5 best martial artists, detectives, and forensic scientists in the world. You can't make a character one of the top 5 in at least three different fields, make him essentially an avatar of fear (the guys that weaponize fear are afraid of him), and expect him to ever be seen as the underdog. Ever.

Make a character a top tier martial artist, and they're already up there. Give them a superpower? Well damn.

 

[Ke0]

Spiderman jobs it sometimes, shrug. Otherwise his strength, intellect and speed make him easily Avenger 1st tier.

The reason I lost interest in Batman and Spiderman is both are supposed to be underdogs yet are actually overpowered as hell.

Well you can always be a Wolverine fan lol. A guy who should be well above a crapload of characters but gets jobbed by pretty much everyone.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Well you can always be a Wolverine fan lol. A guy who should be well above a crapload of characters but gets jobbed by pretty much everyone.

This is true, when wolverine died there should've been a parade of losers applauding because he spent the second half of his career putting people over.

 

[Slayven]

I don't get how Batman and Spiderman were suppose to be underdogs?

 

[DonasaurusRex]

I don't get how Batman and Spiderman were suppose to be underdogs?

an underdog against threats custom made for him maybe, Venom and or Scorpion etc etc, over time they all fall to the wayside and job tho.

 

[Manmademan]

I don't get how Batman and Spiderman were suppose to be underdogs?

Maybe in the 1970s. Villains are all scared to death of current spider man

 

[Slayven]

an underdog against threats custom made for him maybe, Venom and or Scorpion etc etc, over time they all fall to the wayside and job tho.

Maybe in the 1970s. Villains are all scared to death of current spider man

I forgot all the time Fancy Dan, and Ox beat down poor parker

 

[DeathyBoy]

Maybe in the 1970s. Villains are all scared to death of current spider man

Especially given Spider-Man lost his spider sense and decided to train under Shang-Chi. Not sure if he's got his spider sense back now, but if he has he's combining his reflexes and strength with spider sense and martial arts training. Dude is overpowered as fuck.

 

[PreFire]

If they're going by the comics, no question it's Thanos. Dude is maxed out in everything except speed. Even that is almost maxed out

http://marvel.com/universe/Thanos

Even though Thor has his strength at max too.

http://marvel.com/universe/Thor

As does the hulk

http://marvel.com/universe/Hulk_(Bruce_Banner)

1v1 vision would beat them all. Literally everything maxed

http://marvel.com/universe/Vision

 

[Manmademan]

Especially given Spider-Man lost his spider sense and decided to train under Shang-Chi. Not sure if he's got his spider sense back now, but if he has he's combining his reflexes and strength with spider sense and martial arts training. Dude is overpowered as fuck.

It came back later, improved because now he knows how to actually fight and leverages the spider sense in with it, rather than using it as a crutch. Again, not really explored but marvel made it clear he's a way better fighter now in that arc.

If they're going by the comics, no question it's Thanos. Dude is maxed out in everything except speed. Even that is almost maxed out

http://marvel.com/universe/Thanos

Even though Thor has his strength at max too.

http://marvel.com/universe/Thor

As does the hulk

http://marvel.com/universe/Hulk_(Bruce_Banner)

1v1 vision would beat them all. Literally everything maxed

http://marvel.com/universe/Vision

yeah...you might want to ignore those.

 

[Slayven]

Especially given Spider-Man lost his spider sense and decided to train under Shang-Chi. Not sure if he's got his spider sense back now, but if he has he's combining his reflexes and strength with spider sense and martial arts training. Dude is overpowered as fuck.

He got it back

I like when Shang Chi got spiderpowers he was freaking out(as much as Shang Chi can) over how heady the powers made him feel. He gained a new respect for Spiderman.

If they're going by the comics, no question it's Thanos. Dude is maxed out in everything except speed. Even that is almost maxed out

http://marvel.com/universe/Thanos

Even though Thor has his strength at max too.

http://marvel.com/universe/Thor

As does the hulk

http://marvel.com/universe/Hulk_(Bruce_Banner)

1v1 vision would beat them all. Literally everything maxed

http://marvel.com/universe/Vision

Nah Breh

 

[DeathyBoy]

It came back later, improved because now he knows how to actually fight and leverages the spider sense in with it, rather than using it as a crutch. Again, not really explored but marvel made it clear he's a way better fighter now in that arc.

I always laugh when people call Spider-Man a street level hero.

 

[Manmademan]

Nah Breh

You see what we have to deal with here?

 

[Slayven]

I always laugh when people call Spider-Man a street level hero.

He walks the street sometimes. But his unique combo of powers and the way he uses them always him to punch way above his suppose weight class

You see what we have to deal with here?

Yeah Vision is a solid mid tier and great utility player. But he ain't in the big dudes class.

 

[Manmademan]

I always laugh when people call Spider-Man a street level hero.

he's street level because he focuses on taking down muggers and things that terrorize common people.

his skillset lets him play with the big dogs if he wanted to, but parker likes to look out for the little guy.

He walks the street sometimes. But his unique combo of powers and the way he uses them always him to punch way above his suppose weight class


Yeah Vision is a solid mid tier and great utility player. But he ain't in the big dudes class.

any chart that implies vision is as strong as goddamn thanos or has anywhere near his power level needs it's internet access revoked and the homepage replaced with a 404: not found

 

[ScreenSplitter]

I always laugh when people call Spider-Man a street level hero.

It's not referring to his power level dude. You just don't see Captain America foiling petty crimes.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

If they're going by the comics, no question it's Thanos. Dude is maxed out in everything except speed. Even that is almost maxed out

http://marvel.com/universe/Thanos

Even though Thor has his strength at max too.

http://marvel.com/universe/Thor

As does the hulk

http://marvel.com/universe/Hulk_(Bruce_Banner)

1v1 vision would beat them all. Literally everything maxed

http://marvel.com/universe/Vision

Problem with those is comics before and after they came out go far beyond what they quantify...for instance where on there will you rank thor being able to create anti protons, or throwing mjolnir at 4x the speed of light , or being able to travel time at will? the rankings are cool and all but the are just for fun within their own framework.

 

[Slayven]

he's street level because he focuses on taking down muggers and things that terrorize common people.

his skillset lets him play with the big dogs if he wanted to, but parker likes to look out for the little guy.



any chart that implies vision is as strong as goddamn thanos or has anywhere near his power level needs it's internet access revoked and the homepage replaced with a 404: not found

That yeah that is the problem with giving hard numbers and the numbers being fan voted. I had a Marvel handbook that listed THe Thing as Class 5

 

[DonasaurusRex]

That yeah that is the problem with giving hard numbers and the numbers being fan voted. I had a Marvel handbook that listed THe Thing as Class 5

Thing gets no respect i tell ya.

 

[Manmademan]

Problem with those is comics before and after they came out go far beyond what they quantify...for instance where on there will you rank thor being able to create anti protons, or throwing mjolnir at 4x the speed of light , or being able to travel time at will? the rankings are cool and all but the are just for fun within their own framework.

The problem is a bit deeper than that. That site is a fan edited wiki, despite being hosted on the marvel homepage. The "official" rankings aren't any more official than what anyone in this thread would come up with, and there are some highly inaccurate things floating around it without attribution.

beyond that, that site has the same problem the old trading cards did. You cannot reduce power level and skill set to a number between 1 and 7. Speed especially- the old trading cards would automatically put anyone who could teleport as a 7, meaning lila cheyney was as fast as the silver surfer.

There are also a whole lot of people whose power level is "undefined" that they just stick at "7". Using the example above, Thor is a 7. Hulk is a 7. Hyperion is a 7. Thanos is a 7. Thanos just beat down Thor, Hulk, and Hyperion at the same goddamn time in infinity without a scratch on him.

That yeah that is the problem with giving hard numbers and the numbers being fan voted. I had a Marvel handbook that listed THe Thing as Class 5

haha remember this?

"sabretooth possesses the normal strength of a man his size that engages in regular intensive exercise."

 

[Slayven]

Thing gets no respect i tell ya.

That is what you get for farming out editing to Yancy St

The problem is a bit deeper than that. That site is a fan edited wiki, despite being hosted on the marvel homepage. The "official" rankings aren't any more official than what anyone in this thread would come up with, and there are some highly inaccurate things floating around it without attribution.

beyond that, that site has the same problem the old trading cards did. You cannot reduce power level and skill set to a number between 1 and 7. Speed especially- the old trading cards would automatically put anyone who could teleport as a 7, meaning lila cheyney was as fast as the silver surfer.

There are also a whole lot of people whose power level is "undefined" that they just stick at "7". Using the example above, Thor is a 7. Hulk is a 7. Hyperion is a 7. Thanos is a 7. Thanos just beat down Thor, Hulk, and Hyperion at the same goddamn time in infinity without a scratch on him.

And they would put Starbrand in the same league too.

Oh and what about Sleepwalker and other guys who have one ability that that would put them in top tiers.

 

[Manmademan]

Oh and what about Sleepwalker and other guys who have one ability that that would put them in top tiers.

This thread inspired me to actually go and search for some of this nonsense.
Thor: Speed-7. Agility? 2.

Grim Reaper is as durable as Juggernaut, and apparently totally indestructible.

Nick Fury is about as smart as aunt may or J. Jonah Jameson. Still more agile than Thor though.

Gambit and Havok are barely strong enough to peel their own bananas. Also the card has Gambit way too smart here.

Deathlok is as strong as colossus now. Go home marvel, you're drunk

 

[Slayven]

Check yourself Manmademan, I know I am the only one that read this series. But Deathlok, the original one, not one of the 1009349838912893 knockoffs. Well he had a Class 100 Mode, but pretty much a suicide thing

 

[Manmademan]

Check yourself Manmademan, I know I am the only one that read this series. But Deathlok, the original one, not one of the 1009349838912893 knockoffs. Well he had a Class 100 Mode, but pretty much a suicide thing

Ok ok. I'll let it slide.

edit: more fun. Ultron is only about as smart as your friendly neighborhood spider man. Less durable somehow than Grim Reaper, despite that whole "made of adamantium" business.

Night Thrasher would body just about anyone in a fight. (ok, this one is 100% accurate and beyond dispute)

Mephisto: infinite intellect, can't figure out how to throw a punch.

Who's faster? Archangel? or quicksilver?

 

[DeathyBoy]

It's not referring to his power level dude. You just don't see Captain America foiling petty crimes.

I meant more that Spider-Man's rogues are all super powered as fuck. It's not like Batman where the metas are the rarity. Spidey does foil street crimes, but when his rogues gallery has alien symbiotes and people who can turn to sand... it's a contrast to Daredevil who's greatest enemies are a fat sumo gangster and a guy who throws objects.

 

[Slayven]

But as far as bricks go Colossus is shit. Luke Cage and Wonder Man run circles around him. As a matter of fact all mutant strong folks suck ass.

 

[DeathyBoy]

But as far as bricks go Colossus is shit. Luke Cage and Wonder Man run circles around him. As a matter of fact all mutant strong folks suck ass.

Wonder Man would be the most powerful superhero on Earth by far, if written properly. And Colossus did crack Fear Itself Juggernaut's helmet. I can't see Cage doing that.

 

[Slayven]

Wonder Man would be the most powerful superhero on Earth by far, if written properly. And Colossus did crack Fear Itself Juggernaut's helmet. I can't see Cage doing that.

I knew a Wonder Man fanboy once, and learned that Wonder Man actually has 3933923923 different powers. Dude was also a Manhunter fanboy, he love heroes with a million different powers they forgot they had

 

[DeathyBoy]

Daredevil was train by a ninja wizard, just saying his peak human undersells him

I knew a Wonder Man fanboy once, and learned that Wonder Man actually has 3933923923 different powers. Dude was also a Manhunter fanboy, he love heroes with a million different powers they forgot they had

He is beyond broken. But I have a soft spot for him. Even after his ridiculous "I hate The Avengers" plot which screamed Bendis getting salty that people were irritated with how reckless his Avengers run was.

 

[Renekton]

"sabretooth possesses the normal strength of a man his size that engages in regular intensive exercise."

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h127/Manmademan/rogue_zps8fa38add.jpg

Was that Rogue with Marvel's powers?

 

[Slayven]

He is beyond broken. But I have a soft spot for him. Even after his ridiculous "I hate The Avengers" plot which screamed Bendis getting salty that people were irritated with how reckless his Avengers run was.

The most reckless thing about that arc was the art.

But I did enjoy seeing some of those losers again

 

[DeathyBoy]

The most reckless thing about that arc was the art.

That Apocalypse from the time travel story was breathtakingly baffling to make sense of art wise.

 

[Manmademan]

Was that Rogue with Marvel's powers?

yup. she wouldn't have survived being smashed through a tree or punched through a giant hunk of rock otherwise. edit: more fun with OG sabretooth.

Wonder Man would be the most powerful superhero on Earth by far, if written properly. And Colossus did crack Fear Itself Juggernaut's helmet. I can't see Cage doing that.

Slayven is high as a kite, Colossus is way past Luke Cage. Not saying he doesn't end up jobbing constantly, but they're in different leagues. Wonderman is a legitimate threat though. His fists hit only with "marginally" less force than Thor with Mjolnir, and he was bench pressing tens of thousands of tons...in the 1970s. He got like a dozen upgrades since.

 

[Slayven]

That Apocalypse from the time travel story was breathtakingly baffling to make sense of art wise.

Him and his horsemen were like those colorblind tests, you kind of see what they are suppose to be but they are barest of outlines

Slayven is high as a kite, Colossus is way past Luke Cage. Not saying he doesn't end up jobbing constantly, but they're in different leagues. Wonderman is a legitimate threat though. His fists hit only with "marginally" less force than Thor with Mjolnir, and he was bench pressing tens of thousands of tons...in the 1970s. He got like a dozen upgrades since.

You sir are mistaken, after Luke got dipped again, dude shot up

I say good day to you sir

 

[Just take it with you.]

haha remember this?

"sabretooth possesses the normal strength of a man his size that engages in regular intensive exercise."

Sabretooth's power creep is pretty funny. He once got stomped by Black Cat, IIRC.

 

[Manmademan]

Him and his horsemen were like those colorblind tests, you kind of see what they are suppose to be but they are barest of outlines


You sir are mistaken,

Them's fighting words.

Colossus gets slept on. Let's see how strong he is-

O.G. Colossus stops a punch from She hulk with one hand, then tosses her.

Can throw Wolverine...at 220 MPH.

Smashes through ground that storm, wolverine, and doctor strange couldn't pierce in one shot.

charges a tank and punches it airborne

how much do sentinels weigh again? This one is trying to crush him. Fails.

Take that L, slay. Cage is not this powerful. He's a better fighter though, I won't dispute that.

 

[Slayven]

At least Luke didn't abandon his kid like Colossus

 

[Manmademan]

At least Luke didn't abandon his kid like Colossus

Fair enough!

Sabretooth's power creep is pretty funny. He once got stomped by Black Cat, IIRC.

everyone has an embarrassing loss here and there. I don't know the circumstances of the black cat fight.

Those shots of sabretooth were CRAZY early though- that's not power creep he's always been superhuman. Claremont originally had sabretooth tracking down Wolverine every year on his birthday wherever he was and beating the living daylights out of him, just to show that he could.

Marvel hasn't done a good job defining where he's supposed to be, but that description in the marvel handbook is one of the more egregious examples of it ignoring character history and just putting whatever.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Check yourself Manmademan, I know I am the only one that read this series. But Deathlok, the original one, not one of the 1009349838912893 knockoffs. Well he had a Class 100 Mode, but pretty much a suicide thing

you mean the original original from like the 70s then right? but what name is on that card
Thats the Michael Collins one, Luther Manning was the original. Or you talkin about the one McDuffie and crew came up with as a pitch for RoboCop but then had to retool for the Michael Collins Deathlok?

 

[Slayven]

you mean the original original from like the 70s then right? but what name is on that card
Thats the Michael Collins one, Luther Manning was the original. Or you talkin about the one McDuffie and crew came up with as a pitch for RoboCop but then had to retool for the Michael Collins Deathlok?

You right that is Collins. Not my fault there is so many deathloks. Deathlok is the Hawk and Dove of marvel.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Sabretooth's power creep is pretty funny. He once got stomped by Black Cat, IIRC.

black cat is a super human thats not a huge problem.

 

[Manmademan]

You right that is Collins. Not my fault there is so many deathloks. Deathlok is the Hawk and Dove of marvel.

Vindication feels so good