Microsoft would absolutely be in bad shape if these were a comprehensive/accurate list of factors. I don't think they are, and in terms of this conversation, Nintendo would be on even shakier grounds if assessed in the same terms.
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Who's in a worse position: Microsoft or Nintendo?
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Microsoft would absolutely be in bad shape if these were a comprehensive/accurate list of factors. I don't think they are, and in terms of this conversation, Nintendo would be on even shakier grounds if assessed in the same terms.
Yeah, Microsoft is doing very well. For all of the sloppy execution on Windows 8, Microsoft is the only company focusing on a cohesive OS for multiple devices, and converging devices. They're about to strike gold for this. I cannot believe that both Apple and Google haven't responded yet because this is inevitable. When silicon is 4nm and you can make a Surface thinner than an iPad Air, why the hell not have a 2-in-1 instead of 2 devices?
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
speculawyer
Member
Really? Nintendo as a company will survive but the WiiU may be in a death spiral. If they have nothing from EA, nothing from Take-Two, and only Skylanders from Activision, I just don't see them doing well.
The WiiU is now the Nintendo IP, Skylanders, Lego, and shovelware platform. Ubi has got to be losing money on their AAA game ports.
The WiiU is now the Nintendo IP, Skylanders, Lego, and shovelware platform. Ubi has got to be losing money on their AAA game ports.
Didn't help the Zune.
I realize that these are totally different situations, just trying to illustrate that just because Microsoft posts profits doesn't mean much unless the division in question is contributing to those profits.
Huh? The only thing on your list that is true is most expensive system.
The people in this thread yelling that Xbox is doomed have no idea how important that division is to the unified approach that the majority of people in the company want. All their Zune products got renamed to Xbox (Xbox Music, Xbox Video, etc.) They've brought Xbox achievements and Live integration from Xbox to Windows Phone and Windows 8 to replace Windows Live. They're all sharing Modern UI, and Threshold wants to bring all three even closer. Xbox isn't going anywhere. Plus Microsoft has billions in the bank.
Nintendo, on the other hand, seems less willing to change. Microsoft saw Apple destroyed their mobile business, they rebooted with Windows Phone. Nintendo sees their console destroyed by the competition, they ignore it. Microsoft sees that tablets are eating away at PC sales, they make their PC OS into a tablet OS. Nintendo sees that third parties don't like N64/Gamecube/Wii/Wii U for development, they say "tough shit" and expect those parties to come aboard or just rely on first party stuff to keep their console alive.
Zune stayed alive even after its devices died. The brand only really died once the PMP market was dead and Xbox was popular enough to replace Zune.
Nintendo, on the other hand, seems less willing to change. Microsoft saw Apple destroyed their mobile business, they rebooted with Windows Phone. Nintendo sees their console destroyed by the competition, they ignore it. Microsoft sees that tablets are eating away at PC sales, they make their PC OS into a tablet OS. Nintendo sees that third parties don't like N64/Gamecube/Wii/Wii U for development, they say "tough shit" and expect those parties to come aboard or just rely on first party stuff to keep their console alive.
Zune stayed alive even after its devices died. The brand only really died once the PMP market was dead and Xbox was popular enough to replace Zune.
MicroSOFT(serve ice cream melts quickly).
Why yes, it
NINTEN
have a big problem
All I got. Take it or leave it.
ultratruman
Banned
Nintendo was always going to be under severe pressure this gen. No matter what we think about the design of the Wii U, they were always going to have to go through the turbulence of getting to grips with HD game development 8 years after everyone else.
Microsoft was arguably in the most favourable position out of the big three going into gen 8. Even though I think they've made far more critical blunders than Nintendo this time around, they're nowhere close to being in as much trouble.
Microsoft was arguably in the most favourable position out of the big three going into gen 8. Even though I think they've made far more critical blunders than Nintendo this time around, they're nowhere close to being in as much trouble.
If the question is which company most has their back against the wall it would be Sony. They need the Playstation brand to be their gateway to the average consumer again, now more than every with ultraviolet, Music Unlimited, Movies Unlimited, their own streaming service on the way, Gaikai, etc..
If the question is which company will struggle the most this console generation it's clearly going to be Nintendo. They've been out for a year and Sony is about to pass their hardware install base in about a month. They have no third party support. Their first party studios are still struggling with the move to HD. Their core franchises now appeal to families and the core Nintendo specific fan, not the wider core gamer audience as a whole. They're clearly also not catching another Wii blue ocean with the Wii U. All in all the Wii U is something they should be hoping ends up at Gamecube levels.
But Nintendo isn't going anywhere. They'll bleed profits out of the Wii U, print money with the 3DS, and their first party titles will pretty much always recoup investment and then some. They'll take another crack at the console biz in a few years, though I hope they do so with a unified handheld/console single platform with wireless HDMI.
Lastly, if the question is which company is most likely to bow out of the industry then that's clearly Microsoft. They have activist shareholders trying to get them out already. They've moved control of the division to people who have no real loyalty or affiliation with the Xbox brand. They've got very little in the first party front tying them to the industry. If the Xbox One is a step back from the Xbox 360 and Sony regains a strong presence in the home console market Microsoft's next CEO could very possibly see flipping the Xbox brand and it's IPs off to someone else as the more profitable move. In reality I don't think anyone would want the Xbox brand itself if that happens, but they could likely sell the Halo IP and 343 together for a nice three figure sum. Forza plus Turn 10 would likely net a lower but still very respectable figure as well. They wouldn't have much else to cash in on, but those two plus the scraps of Lionhead, Rare, etc. would easily push a liquidation of the Xbox brand north of a quarter billion dollars in straight profit. That's a nice bump to hide new product R&D or a down quarter behind.
If the question is which company will struggle the most this console generation it's clearly going to be Nintendo. They've been out for a year and Sony is about to pass their hardware install base in about a month. They have no third party support. Their first party studios are still struggling with the move to HD. Their core franchises now appeal to families and the core Nintendo specific fan, not the wider core gamer audience as a whole. They're clearly also not catching another Wii blue ocean with the Wii U. All in all the Wii U is something they should be hoping ends up at Gamecube levels.
But Nintendo isn't going anywhere. They'll bleed profits out of the Wii U, print money with the 3DS, and their first party titles will pretty much always recoup investment and then some. They'll take another crack at the console biz in a few years, though I hope they do so with a unified handheld/console single platform with wireless HDMI.
Lastly, if the question is which company is most likely to bow out of the industry then that's clearly Microsoft. They have activist shareholders trying to get them out already. They've moved control of the division to people who have no real loyalty or affiliation with the Xbox brand. They've got very little in the first party front tying them to the industry. If the Xbox One is a step back from the Xbox 360 and Sony regains a strong presence in the home console market Microsoft's next CEO could very possibly see flipping the Xbox brand and it's IPs off to someone else as the more profitable move. In reality I don't think anyone would want the Xbox brand itself if that happens, but they could likely sell the Halo IP and 343 together for a nice three figure sum. Forza plus Turn 10 would likely net a lower but still very respectable figure as well. They wouldn't have much else to cash in on, but those two plus the scraps of Lionhead, Rare, etc. would easily push a liquidation of the Xbox brand north of a quarter billion dollars in straight profit. That's a nice bump to hide new product R&D or a down quarter behind.
Silver_DNA
Member
There is a new article about Nintendo being doomed every other day and everyone is always surprised that in those few hours they didn't completely turn around their misfortune.
They completely screwed up the better part of a year with one console, but I feel like Louis CK saying, "Jeez, give them a minute."
They completely screwed up the better part of a year with one console, but I feel like Louis CK saying, "Jeez, give them a minute."
This. Sony has been in massive amounts of debt for years. They've only started coming around to profitability in recent quarters, and only by the skin of their teeth. Regardless of how PS4 does, there are things(COUGHTVCOUGH) weighing it down so heavily that they may have to sell off part of their business. They've got room to sell things off because they're pretty damn big overall, unlike nintendo though. Nintendo's entire business is gaming and toys. If/when they get backed into a corner, they've got nothing to sell.
Microsoft, however, is the stagnant money printer. They're a bit bigger than sony and make a lot more money, but their recent products have all been failures(Which is fine, because windows prints money). Its possible that they might sell the xbox division at some point to create value to investors. Microsoft is -the- dead money stock, nothing moves it, and selling off a division would be the only thing that can majorly move it at this point considering that Microsoft doesn't seem to make well-selling new products. But beyond investors forcing them to sell the Xbox division(Which is unlikely) I see the xbox as the most financially stable of the bunch.
assuming where talking console market only and not all around business...
Hard to say in my opinion. Things will become more clear by April. Both companies have problems. Personally and from anecdotal evidence i think Nintendo is going to be in an uptrend in contrast to 2013, while the X1 will be in a downtrend and not meeting expectations.
Even if that how things end up being that doesnt automatically mean nintendo is in good shape, it just indicates momentum and a trend. its going ot be an interesting year that for sure.
The x1 has some big problems working against it. Price, weaker hardware compared to PS4, not enough substantial exclusives, multiplats from 3rd parties also being on the 360 slowing upgrade adoptions.
3rd parties and multiplats dont do much for the X1 when you can get the same games on the Ps4 where they will look better and it will cost you less for hardware.Theres also the option of not upgrading and playing those multiplats on on the 360/ps3 if you dont want to upgrade. Folks are going to bring up titanfall, personally i dont think thats going to move as many units as people think (not at $500) plus lots of folk who might upgrade for it have the option of getting it on the 360.
Nintendo, while lacking in 3rd party games has a strong first party going for them. Combined with a different appeal and lower price point I think it will help them. Help them how much is the question.
Hard to say in my opinion. Things will become more clear by April. Both companies have problems. Personally and from anecdotal evidence i think Nintendo is going to be in an uptrend in contrast to 2013, while the X1 will be in a downtrend and not meeting expectations.
Even if that how things end up being that doesnt automatically mean nintendo is in good shape, it just indicates momentum and a trend. its going ot be an interesting year that for sure.
The x1 has some big problems working against it. Price, weaker hardware compared to PS4, not enough substantial exclusives, multiplats from 3rd parties also being on the 360 slowing upgrade adoptions.
3rd parties and multiplats dont do much for the X1 when you can get the same games on the Ps4 where they will look better and it will cost you less for hardware.Theres also the option of not upgrading and playing those multiplats on on the 360/ps3 if you dont want to upgrade. Folks are going to bring up titanfall, personally i dont think thats going to move as many units as people think (not at $500) plus lots of folk who might upgrade for it have the option of getting it on the 360.
Nintendo, while lacking in 3rd party games has a strong first party going for them. Combined with a different appeal and lower price point I think it will help them. Help them how much is the question.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
FairXchange
Member
I'm still buying Nintendo hardware and games, so I haven't counted them out yet. And what's the old adage? Never underestimate Nintendo? They're gonna light the fire under everyone's ass sooner or later. You can't hold back Mario and Link for long until something explodes.
What you fail to realize that, yeah, Microsoft rebooted their phone and tablet offerings but both flopped hard. Sure MS tries but they seldom succeed.
Of course they're not accurate, but then again Conor is the guy that got perma-juniored for starting a thread about how Xbox One is weaker technically than Wii U.
If it were all about IPs though, MS would definitely be worse off than both Nintendo and Sony. But their money gives them the leeway to buy what they want (see Titanfall).
Spinning off electronics and entertainment is something Sony's been advised to do as well. They're largely pointless.
TheSinkingKnight
Member
You have a lot of stock invested into Sony?
JordanN
Banned
Wait, wait wait. How come Nintendo has the shareholders telling them to go mobile and people say it can't happen but when Microsoft shareholders tell them to sell Xbox it has to happen?
Something is not right.
Microsoft software and royalties make so much money that they really don't need to succeed to keep moving forward.
Edit:
True, but even in that proposed plan Sony would remain the majority shareholder.
Yeah overall it seems like Sony is in the worst shape of the big three.
Oppo
Member
Your returns. Please.
I don't normally call out people like this, but no sane investor watches Sony break a bunch of sales records within one of their most profitable divisions, and then utters a statement like that. Madness.
Are you a gamer or an investor?
masterlobo
Banned
Nintendo.
The Albatross
Member
Look up what debt to asset ratio is.
I think it's somewhat of a tie between Nintendo and Sony. Sony has divisions it can sell off for quite a lot of money, but no real cash on balance, Nintendo has money it can burn through, but no divisions to sell. Maybe Nintendo can sell studios, but really once they burn through all their money they'll be in debt up to their eyeballs in no time.
Sales aren't everything. It's about profits. From my understanding the PS3 lost so much money that it wiped out all the profits from the PS2 and PS1. I'm not sure I would call it one of their most profitable divisions.
Interceptor
Banned
MisterHero
Super Member
Xbox 360 before its reboot was in big trouble last gen and no one called them out on it. If they can get away with that they can get away with anything.
Nintendo apparently likes where they are. They don't want to change their games or their model to compete with mobile/social. Even 3DS doesn't compromise them as much as true tablets would.
They believe Microsoft has to compete with Google. Not just with Xbox, but with Bing, Internet Explorer, tablets, everything. Very little of this talk has to do with videogames.JordanN said:
Nintendo apparently likes where they are. They don't want to change their games or their model to compete with mobile/social. Even 3DS doesn't compromise them as much as true tablets would.
Nintendo is far worse off in the home console market, all else equal. No one wants the Wii U anywhere, while the Xbone will at least command a "worth porting to" second place in one region.
On the other hand, Nintendo is better off in gaming devices in general due to the 3DS line being a clear winner.
In terms of who will back off first, it's a race between Iwata deciding he wants to go down with the Wii U rather than tapering it off as a failure, vs. MS corporate deciding that spending $2bn+ to sell 10 million consoles is pure lunacy (remember, the $1bn figure includes only exclusives and marketing planned as of ~E3, not things like the gotta-be-huge Titanfall deal or any Spring price cut!)
I don't see either exiting the sector altogether, but either could definitely decide that TV out on the next DS/2016 Windows Phones is the way to go. At which point the other one remaining would suddenly be third parties' best friend.
On the other hand, Nintendo is better off in gaming devices in general due to the 3DS line being a clear winner.
In terms of who will back off first, it's a race between Iwata deciding he wants to go down with the Wii U rather than tapering it off as a failure, vs. MS corporate deciding that spending $2bn+ to sell 10 million consoles is pure lunacy (remember, the $1bn figure includes only exclusives and marketing planned as of ~E3, not things like the gotta-be-huge Titanfall deal or any Spring price cut!)
I don't see either exiting the sector altogether, but either could definitely decide that TV out on the next DS/2016 Windows Phones is the way to go. At which point the other one remaining would suddenly be third parties' best friend.
IdreamofHIME
Member
There's a lot of in fighting within MS, there are people who just don't want an xbox division. No matter how well it's doing, there are people who believe MS should be focusing on what made them big in the 1st place.
It's such a narrow view, but some people are like that.
The infighting is hardly reason to say Nintendo's in a better position though. Nintendo is a videogame company and they can't sell their videogame console. That's a major freaking problem.
It's such a narrow view, but some people are like that.
The infighting is hardly reason to say Nintendo's in a better position though. Nintendo is a videogame company and they can't sell their videogame console. That's a major freaking problem.
Yeah but I'd argue that either the 3DS or the original Wii still make more than WP and Surface combined.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
Tis the joke, I believe.
PuppetMaster
Member
WiiU is currently trending far far far worse than Xbox.
But at the same time I can't see Nintendo ever exiting the gaming business. Worst case they go third party like Sega.
MS on the other hand, a failure again might give them enough reason to give up completely. Or sell it off in components. It is a small but still possible outcome.
But at the same time I can't see Nintendo ever exiting the gaming business. Worst case they go third party like Sega.
MS on the other hand, a failure again might give them enough reason to give up completely. Or sell it off in components. It is a small but still possible outcome.
Isn't there a problem with being reactionary though? Windows 8 has taken quite some time for the adoption rate to pick up, Window's Phone's market share is tiny, and the Surface tablets lost Microsoft almost a billion dollars.
I agree that Xbox isn't going anywhere since it's such a valuable brand, but I don't really see the solution to Nintendo's problems being a reactionary approach, especially when all of it's most successful products were built to be unique.
This is the more realistic answer. In the short term, sure it's Nintendo, but overall if you look at day 1 of their videogame debut until now, Microsoft's just been digging a huge financial hole this whole time.
Are we including the 3DS into this equation? If not, then the answer is pretty obvious. If so, mobile be damned, we're talking about a handheld that is outselling entire consoles combined, has third party support, and just had a first party title that sold 2 million units in its first month (technically two, I guess). Under that metric, Nintendo will be fine for awhile.
JordanN
Banned
Nintendo has been in a downward spiral since the NES. Only the Wii/DS did anything to reverse that but that was an anomaly.
History says you can underestimate them. Also, throw in two failures (Virtual Boy and N64DD).
What first party studios/lineup do they have?
If you mean in the video game business as a whole, no, Wii U isn't anywhere close to 10 percent anywhere. This also gets reflected in multiplat sales when you see that specific games sell between 1 and 3 percent on Wii U. The console, regardless of what you think of it, is an utter disaster. Xbox One has the potential to be a disaster for Microsoft, but it will never approach Wii U levels of failure as long as it continues to receive third party support.
Natureboy99
Banned
Is Xbox even profitable? That's the real question. If not, Xbox week be the first to go for sure. Nintendo has tons of money on hand and can afford a few failures
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