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[Azulsky]

Much of what makes the consoles so successful is their price point.

If you start drifting into the $700 area for the same hardware so that Sony/MSFT can make a profit then you are going to risk losing a crowd who might jump to PC around that pricepoint.

Relevant Article:
http://www.pcper.com/reviews/System...dware-Comparison-Building-Competing-Gaming-PC


The only software company that makes serious bank on devices is Apple and they are losing Steve's swagger that let them get away with that.

 

[Applecot]

Because people refuse to pay high prices.

 

[Loofy]

An ipad isnt really expensive though. Some might consider it a cheap alternative to a laptop.

If PS4 came with a screen then maybe it you can up the price.

 

[PaulExcellent]

This made me laugh out loud

Do you not leave your house or something?
Tablets are used by millions to do more than just play Angry Birds. Making music, presentations, studying, drawing, etc.

That shit's productive compared to "Press X for Jason".

 

[opticalmace]

When you're buying an ipad you're buying into a much more highly flexible and expandable ecosystem than a console, of which productivity is definitely a part. Do you realize how many presentations get carried around, edited on ipads? emails red on mobile telephones? meetings scheduled? business calls carried out? It is MOST DEFINITELY a productivity tool, even if it also happens to play candy crush and let you watch spongebob squarepants. But MOST importantly it des all of these things incredibly well. Because while you may be able to do certain things as well on a console, they are done either poorly or they're superfluous to the end user who just wants to play some videogames. It's entirely up to the customer/market to decide what something is worth.

It certainly can be used as a productivity tool, but most users do not use it for that purpose.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

It certainly can be used as a productivity tool, but most users do not use it for that purpose.

Debatable, but we're just going to end up arguing semantics here.

 

[Eusis]

An iPad is a pretty clumsy tool for doing work; it's clearly designed primarily as a content consumption device.

It's a fairly versatile one and fairly powerful for its form factor, so that in and of itself arguably justifies the cost anyway.

Anyways in the case of PS3 and XB1 they were extremely expensive for dubious gain: both ran multiplats worse than their competition and had multimedia functions that may not have been of interest to gamers, though I'd put the PS3 ahead of both in that regard since it was a new movie format rather than dubious interconnectivity, and once developers got a handle on PS3 games were either roughly equal or even slightly better, two advantages the XB1 really doesn't have, though it doesn't have as extreme of a disadvantage when it comes to price as the PS3 did.

As for video game consoles in general: they're platforms for a game format, and the more people that can get on the more people will be inclined to get the games, and thus be more profitable for publishers and developers to make more games on. There's exceptions there, some niche games get about as much attention on handhelds as they ever could on consoles, but unless you're going to do way more than play games and watch movies it's not in anyone's best interest to be expensive.

 

[rokkerkory]

$500 isn't much these days esp to last 5-8 years

 

[kaiyo]

It's mostly true. Let me know when you can do word processing or excel on modern console.

 

[Alvarez]

This is not a claim that console prices are not justified, but take a look at this:

I got that about a year ago. For 220 dollars. It's more powerful than the PS4 and, being a PC, it has infinitely more utility.

But I had to build it. And it won't play PS4 exclusives. And I had to pay for shipping (granted, I'm in Hawaii, so for most shipping will be significantly cheaper).

Are console prices justified? That's entirely in the eye of the beholder. But I don't think that the PS4 or Xbox One are significantly overpriced. Do I think that forcing the Kinect upon consumers is bad? Yes.

I could even argue that the PS3 at launch wasn't overpriced, because it literally had a Playstation 2 inside of it (Playstation 2's architecture and the Playstation 3's Cell architecture are incompatible).

 

[jeremy1456]

599 dollars for a ps3 was completely retarded, and this is coming from someone who bought a ps3 when it was 599 us dollars

Lol was Resistance really that hard to pass up?

 

[PaulExcellent]

...no words. LOL

Edit: I found words.
This is the dumbest thing I've seen on Neogaf yet.

 

[- J - D -]

Haha, okay maybe excel and word processing weren't the best examples, but the functionality of tablets and so forth are still much greater than what a console can provide. And even if that weren't true in practical terms, the general audiences still believe it.

On a related note, when you buy a gaming console, you're spending $400-500 + anywhere up to $60 for every game you play, not even including the cost for other services (that usually aren't free). For anyone hoping for a decent investment when buying one of these machines, you're going to need to shell out for more than one or two games in most cases. So in the end that $400-500 can easily grow to somewhere nearer to $1000 or more.

I believe a lot of people think that once they drop $500 on an iPad, almost everything they'd need to enjoy themselves are either on the device already or can be had for dirt cheap or completely free.

 

[Scooter]

Doesn't matter if they're justified or not, consumers apparently don't like them so it can't work.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

I think what he meant to say is let me know when you can do word processing on a console and have it not be completely janked the fuck out. Same goes for internet browsing on consoles, but arguably that's more for convenience than for actual solitary use.

EDIT: see this is actually a perfect example of consoles shoving superfluous features into a console in order to justify it's "value." Who in their right mind would ever legitimately need/want to edit a spreadsheet on a ps4 completely divorced from a PC where 99% of the rest of your productivity tools will be, much less do so with a fucking controller. Or printing from PS3, with the possible exception of printing the odd screencap here and there. I could duct tape a vhs player to my ps4 and call it a "feature" til I'm blue in the face, but that doesn't suddenly mean it's justifiably more valuable.

 

[Minions]

People don't use the mentality "im paying 600 to use over x amount of years" because your paying the entire cost right now.

If you were to pay it over a set number of years I could see how it might become more justifiable.

Agreed. This is the same reason why 2 year contracts work. $200 for a phone? (or free) OK!

Actual cost $2000 over 2 years.

 

[tokkun]

- A single console game costs more than I have ever spent on all phone and tablet apps combined.
- I do not have to pay for a $50/yr subscription to use basic features of a tablet.
- Mobile apps work on multiple devices with the same OS.
- Most mobile devices are backwards compatible with a huge library of existing software, including stuff I have previously bought.

Look at Total Cost of Ownership rather than just the retail price.

 

[Petrae]

$500 isn't much these days esp to last 5-8 years

Except many boxes won't last that long before something breaks. It's not automatic, but it's quite likely that you'll be faced with replacing your console(s) before the generation ends due to wear and tear from normal use.

Had to replace two of the three consoles from last generation; my Wii's GPU died at 20 months and my Xbox 360 Elite died at 40 months.

Expecting consoles to last more than 4 years requires a bit of luck to succeed.

 

[opticalmace]

Debatable, but we're just going to end up arguing semantics here.

There are consumer surveys that support my assertion, if you're curious.

 

[slapnuts]

Games are entertainment; an iPad is a productivity tool.

Entertainment is usually cheaper than productivity tools.

I don't really buy that theory ..the reason why is that everyone i know that has an iPad is definitely not using it for productivity...and i know at least 10 people that have an iPad from co-workers, friends and family. It's not just from who i know..i look at the iPad as a entertainment type-device.

 

[drakesfortune]

Why aren't they? Why is $500 too much for a machine that should last you 6+ years? Why was $600 too much? It's not like these are high margin products. Doesn't apple make a $200+ profit on an ipad? Sony and Microsoft are barely breaking even. PS3 was sold for a $200 loss at first! And these are not just gaming machines either anymore. PS4 and XBone are literally media hubs for the living room.

Why are high prices not justified?

To be fair, they are what these companies can manage. It's driven by the market. Each company builds the box that gives them the most chance of success in the marketplace, and then decide on the price that allows them the best chance for maximum profits. It's as fair as fair gets. If it doesn't work for them, they don't have to make a console. If they lose money, they didn't plan well, they didn't make what the market wanted. If they make a bazillion dollars, they made something we all wanted, and everyone, including them, is happy. It's a high risk, high loss, or high reward gamble.

I for one am glad that these companies are willing to risk SO much just to make me have a bit of fun. If they succeed, I congratulate and honor them. Honestly, there is nothing better than a group of people building something that other people want, and enjoy, and find value in. If you don't value it enough to buy it for what they want to sell it for...don't buy it. If you do, then buy it. It's nice and simple. Logical. Makes sense. Capitalism at its finest.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

There are consumer surveys that support my assertion, if you're curious.

Something something selection bias something something. Besides, if you have ever used your phone to call someone, to set an alarm, to put something on a calendar, which I guarantee you 99% of mobile phone users have, you've used it for productivity. Productivity doesn't have to mean just Microsoft Office.

 

[drakesfortune]

I don't really buy that theory ..the reason why is that everyone i know that has an iPad is definitely not using it for productivity...and i know at least 10 people that have an iPad from co-workers, friends and family. It's not just from who i know..i look at the iPad as a entertainment type-device.

I use it for both. My iPad has made me a LOT of money, and it's also entertained me. Most people I know use it for entertainment, but it is a VERY useful business tool. Ever go to a trade show? You can't turn around without bumping into business people using ipads.

 

[Riedinizzo]

"599 US dollars."

 

[kaiyo]

I think what he meant to say is let me know when you can do word processing on a console and have it not be completely janked the fuck out. Same goes for internet browsing on consoles, but arguably that's more for convenience than for actual solitary use.

EDIT: see this is actually a perfect example of consoles shoving superfluous features into a console in order to justify it's "value." Who in their right mind would ever legitimately need/want to edit a spreadsheet on a ps4 completely divorced from a PC where 99% of the rest of your productivity tools will be, much less do so with a fucking controller. Or printing from PS3, with the possible exception of printing the odd screencap here and there. I could duct tape a vhs player to my ps4 and call it a "feature" til I'm blue in the face, but that doesn't suddenly mean it's justifiably more valuable.

You can say the same for a tablet, who would want to work on a spreadsheet via touchscreen (okay u can connect a bluetooth keybaord) but on a 9" screen? You do that on a computer where like you said, 99% of the other productivity tools will be.

You can use keyboard/mouse with PS3/PS4 (though mouse isnt working on PS4 for some reason)

And the word processing on google doc doesnt work on PS4, there's no "input" for the page so the on screen keybard doesnt pop up. =/

 

[drakesfortune]

Except many boxes won't last that long before something breaks. It's not automatic, but it's quite likely that you'll be faced with replacing your console(s) before the generation ends due to wear and tear from normal use.

Had to replace two of the three consoles from last generation; my Wii's GPU died at 20 months and my Xbox 360 Elite died at 40 months.

Expecting consoles to last more than 4 years requires a bit of luck to succeed.

I still have my launch Wii, Launch PS3 (60GB FTW) and the 360 I bought in 2007, which was my first 360. I've used them in them all for countless hours, including my kids putting tons of hours on them, and not one has broken on me. I actually have two PS3's. I have the 2nd gen PS3 too that I got when that came out, and that one is used almost on a daily basis, and no problems. I know other people have had issues, but I let my consoles have air and breathe, I keep them clean, and they all are still rocking along.

 

[opticalmace]

Something something selection bias something something. Besides, if you have ever used your phone to call someone, to set an alarm, to put something on a calendar, which I guarantee you 99% of mobile phone users have, you've used it for productivity. Productivity doesn't have to mean just Microsoft Office.

Sorry, I meant to say that the devices are used for productivity the minority of the time, as in the surveys asked for time spent doing each type of activity. Typing on this tablet is a PITA.

 

[metalmachine]

$400+ is a lot of money to many people, especially to lay out at once for what's basically a toy. A game machine.

Sure, today's consoles have more bells & whistles than ever, but the Xbox, PlayStation, and Nintendo brands represent games. It becomes a harder sell for non-core consumers when it's so expensive. Meanwhile, a device like a tablet-- which can play games along with a bunch of other functions AND can be used anywhere-- costs about the same and it becomes a question of whether you're really getting your money's worth out of a game box or a multi-functional and portable device like a tablet.

We can argue inflation, but wages haven't kept pace.

Consoles may be worth it to many of us here on GAF at half a grand or more between hardware, accessories, online subscriptions, and so on... but to Joe and Jane Consumer who play video games every now and then, that money might be better spent on something else, perhaps waiting 2-3 years for the price to hopefully come down.

I think this hits it on the head. Plus I'm too tired to write my own opinion.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

You can say the same for a tablet, who would want to work on a spreadsheet via touchscreen (okay u can connect a bluetooth keybaord) but on a 9" screen? You do that on a computer where like you said, 99% of the other productivity tools will be.

I hate to sound crass but have you actually SEEN any kind of office or business environment lately? And you're forgetting a crucial factor in smart phones/tablets and that's mobility. For high-travel business workers that kind of functionality on the go is essential in order to stay productive competitive in a modern work environment, especially in places in which a computer cannot be made readily/conveniently available.

Sorry, I meant to say that the devices are used for productivity the minority of the time, as in the surveys asked for time spent doing each type of activity. Typing on this tablet is a PITA.

Use time is not an effective indicator of the usefulness/value of a certain feature. I may only spend 10 minutes checking my email after watching a 30 minute episode of Breaking Bad, but that 10 minutes allows me to see the email that says there's a job opening/doorbuster deal/a last minute project that needs to get sent to corporate immediately that would otherwise have been missed/overlooked.

 

[Vodh]

Why aren't they? Why is $500 too much for a machine that should last you 6+ years? Why was $600 too much? It's not like these are high margin products. Doesn't apple make a $200+ profit on an ipad? Sony and Microsoft are barely breaking even. PS3 was sold for a $200 loss at first! And these are not just gaming machines either anymore. PS4 and XBone are literally media hubs for the living room.

Why are high prices not justified?

They aren't? That's news to me. Last time I checked, PS4 was sold out. Who gives a shit what any single person other than yourself thinks as long as the market proves them wrong?

 

[Brianimaniac]

Because that's the early adopter price. If I wait, I can spend less money and get a better product with a larger library.

 

[Windu]

$60 games

 

[kaiyo]

I hate to sound crass but have you actually SEEN any kind of office or business environment lately? And you're forgetting a crucial factor in smart phones/tablets and that's mobility. For high-travel business workers that kind of functionality on the go is essential in order to stay productive competitive in a modern work environment, especially in places in which a computer cannot be made readily/conveniently available.

Ever heard of a laptop?


edit:

...no words. LOL

Edit: I found words.
This is the dumbest thing I've seen on Neogaf yet.

=(

 

[CrunchyFrog]

Ever heard of a laptop?

1. A phone fits in your pocket, and a tablet is much smaller than most laptops and often much quicker/intuitive in the interface, 2. aren't we comparing productivity between phones/tablets and video game consoles? Where did laptops come into it?

Also, OP is failing to take into account the immense software infrastructure supporting iOS and its ecosystem which won't show up on its BoS.

 

[MisterHero]

I don't really buy that theory ..the reason why is that everyone i know that has an iPad is definitely not using it for productivity...and i know at least 10 people that have an iPad from co-workers, friends and family. It's not just from who i know..i look at the iPad as a entertainment type-device.

It doesn't have to be limited to iPad. iPhones are incredibly popular for the key feature and it gives iTunes a wide audience.

It's not necessarily the kind that wants traditional console-style games though.

 

[fertygo]

I actually think each console must have "High-end" SKU at this age.
There's no reason we can't have more power because console maker putting limit in price range.

There's enough enthusiast that will buy $699 console if its have spec to justify that. We have phone with varied spec, why not game console?

 

[drakesfortune]

Ever heard of a laptop?
=(

Ever heard of a pager? To me, that's the difference between and iPad and a Laptop. Laptops have their place, but iPads are far more portable, and far easier to slide into a bag to bring with you. Laptops are still much bigger, and most lack 3g/4g LTE.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

I actually think each console must have "High-end" SKU at this age.
There's no reason we can't have more power because console maker putting limit in price range.

There's enough enthusiast that will buy $699 console if its have spec to justify that. We have phone with varied spec, why not game console?

Doing so would eschew the one major benefit of of consoles which is a unified ecosystem and ease of use.

 

[kaiyo]

1. A phone fits in your pocket, and a tablet is much smaller than most laptops and often much quicker/intuitive in the interface, 2. aren't we comparing productivity between phones/tablets and video game consoles? Where did laptops come into it?

You were talking about

For high-travel business workers

modern work environment

In those cases I would think a ultrabook would be much more productive than a tablet. Sure UI maybe more intuitive on a tablet, but to actually do work and multitasking, nothing beats a computer.

edit:

Ever heard of a pager? To me, that's the difference between and iPad and a Laptop. Laptops have their place, but iPads are far more portable, and far easier to slide into a bag to bring with you. Laptops are still much bigger, and most lack 3g/4g LTE.

 

[TyphoonStruggle]

Games are entertainment; an iPad is a productivity tool.

Entertainment is usually cheaper than productivity tools.

lol wut?

 

[PerZona]

Not consoles but maybe games. I still think paying $60 for a game is expensive. Console games need to be sold at a cheaper price.

 

[a916]

The pathetic part is people saying "LOL my computer is more powerful than that, why didn't they release one with a better graphics card" without realizing that you can't do that AND having a pricepoint like 399 or 499...

 

[Loofy]

Not consoles but maybe games. I still think paying $60 for a game is expensive. Console games need to be sold at a cheaper price.

I think this is the real answer here. We're basically buying set top boxes that require $60 deposits to use.

Also, neither console comes with a touchscreen.

 

[Leb]

This sentiment is particularly unfortunate as we enter the next generation -- here we are, coming off a brutally overlong generation, and we're entering the next generation with dated and comparatively weak hardware which, horrifically, we may be using until 2020.

Which is why it might be nice if they started subsidizing more capable consoles like we see with cell phones --- I mean, everyone is already getting Live/PSN+ anyways, for the most part.

 

[Northeastmonk]

Even though ipaid and smart phones are portable you're still paying monthly for phone services and data plans. I think there's a large majority of people who still don't consider gaming to be a "regular" form of entertainment. In my opinion video games are becoming more diverged within society. We've all been able to stand up for ourselves, but I still hear comments from those people who complain about kids playing video games and becoming lazy. I'm sure that is somewhat true and it fits in with what I'm talking about. Video games aren't something kids can either afford on their own or even buy (M+).

I think the console price is justified, but it's because we do not see a large majority of people considering gaming as another medium that isn't their stereotypical "video game" mentality. We have to mix it (video games) with science, create some sort of million dollar fortress, or be able to show it off in order to convince certain outlets that video games are worth the costs.

I think phones became very popular because we're a very busy society. America has also become a place of "tell all" to everyone you know, so do the math on that one.

Video game bias to me is like having a group who hates video games, those who think only kids play video games, and those who simply do not care. I spent a large time overhearing a person talk about their teaching plan for a college assignment and it was about "getting kids away from video games" and literally... if it was not for the precise reason to why kids should limit video games I would of guessed that this person hated video games period. Like every mother in America hates video games. I guess we all know that by now. So, when it comes down to costs? How many of those exact same people are paying more for their cell phone and its gimmicks than they would buying a video game console?

 

[FaintColt388301]

Because it's not a one time cost. You don't pay 500 and get all the games. You pay that much just for the ability to play games that you have to purchase for $60. Think about how much you spent at the end of a console life. Let's say you buy 4 new games a year. That's $240 a year times 5 years that's $1,400 on top of the $500 down. A console cost you like $2,000 in its life time. People probably spend a lot more than that too. Console prices are considered high because they aren't a stand alone product

EDIT: Take that and remember that people are paying for online memberships like xbl every year and then they might buy extra controllers or headphones

 

[SwiftDeath]

Because you can buy a last gen machine new for half price and have a full library of stellar games?

 

[fertygo]

Doing so would eschew the one major benefit of of consoles which is a unified ecosystem and ease of use.

Forget that, its not that much of hassle to put performance option in each game People should have more luxury if they can afford it.. Like if they want the game more prettier and have more FPS.

 

[CeePhour]

They are, but people are very good at convincing themselves of anything.

There's a thread full of people convinced Killer Instinct costs $560 and that the box is incapable of playing other games.

 

[Opiate]

The first problem is that the 500 dollar entry is just that; an entry fee. Unlike the iPad (mentioned many times in this thread), the further barriers are very significant.

You pay hugely for each game. You pay for online. You pay for additional controllers. You may pay for a camera or other peripherals.

By comparison, iPad has none of that, and games/apps are typically $1-5. Even if we only included the cost of PSN/XBLA over the course of 6 years of ownership (and averaging the cost of PSN/XBLA to 4 dollars/month), that would immediately jump the price of ownership to 700-800 dollars for the PS4/XBone, respectively. Again, that's without considering the cost of controllers or the huge disparity in app prices or anything else.

Further, the games on consoles may not be as appealing to most people as what other platforms have to offer, such that similar entry fees still favor iPads/PCs/Android phones/whatever.