Risible
Member
I seriously wanna have your babies Opiate. Like, seriously. For realsies.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Why are so many people such physically broken messes?
- Thread starter JB1981
- Start date
- Status
I seriously wanna have your babies Opiate. Like, seriously. For realsies.
Because the fascist health police told them to? How about choosing what's important to you in life for yourself.
Annoying Old Party Man
Member
Yes, I should make time.
It's not as easy as you make it sound though, not this nor any necessary changes in eating habits.
No, because they're physically broken messes.
That's their business.
astroturfing
Member
im a physically broken mess because i fell down and hurt my back. cant do anything without it hurting, constant pain all day every day since 12 years ago. (expensive surgery didnt work, expensive meds didnt work, physical therapy didnt work etc).
i still work out though, but im thinking maybe i shouldnt.. risking my health really. i might lose the ability to move my legs any moment basically. maybe i should re-evaluate.. maybe just letting my gut grow is wiser than forcing myself to run and lift weights.
i still work out though, but im thinking maybe i shouldnt.. risking my health really. i might lose the ability to move my legs any moment basically. maybe i should re-evaluate.. maybe just letting my gut grow is wiser than forcing myself to run and lift weights.
I don't know, i didn't find changing my eating habits to be that hard. At least much easier than finding time and motivation to exercise regularly. If you stop eating bread, cereal, candy and fast food, and stop drinking anything with sugar in it, you're already halfway there. You don't even have to stop completely, just eat that stuff once during the weekend or something. The other half is simply eating less. And there's your much improved diet. If my lazy ass can do it, you sure as hell could!
This is where I disagree with you and Opiate.
The ''health care premium'' argument is a popular one I won't get into here. My main concern is a bit different.
Like I said earlier in the thread, education is at the center of many health issues: obesity being the most obvious. Most people do not have enough understanding of how their health affects themselves or those around them. They have not been prepared to be forward-thinking enough to make active, conscious decisions about their health and level of fitness. Some people have! And that is fine, they are allowed to disregard their personal health in favor of other pursuits. I disagree with it, but it is their prerogative.
But do you really think it is fair to say that most people know the risks of unhealthy living? Of the reality of diabetes, heart disease, and other preventable illnesses caused by diet and lifestyle. I would say no. Many diabetics even after being diagnosed are unable to properly care for themselves, leading sometimes to very severe complications. Have you ever seen a person's fingers rot off because they are unable to manage their own diet? And have them look in your eyes and tell you they don't understand why, as their Pepsi bottle sits half-empty on a table?
I agree that people have different priorities, but personal health should be promoted as one of them. How can you argue against this? You don't have to go a gym, that much is obvious - - some people despite their best efforts cannot find an appropriate amount of time. But you should be making smart decisions about your own diet and level of fitness. You will live longer, have a better quality of life, and it is very likely you will feel happier. That kind of thing is important. Your family will be more able to rely on you. You will be able to do better work, across virtually any area. You won't leave your family straddled with the stress of dealing with your personal health issues (insulin pens, dialysis), or even your premature death. You have to be forward-thinking enough to know the corners you cut now will negatively impact you and the ones you love later on.
And the fact is, an unhealthy parent can very likely cause an unhealthy child. So your suffering - - or potential suffering - - gets passed down as you lead by your unhealthy example. Your children see it as normal (unless taught differently elsewhere, which is not currently a thought to bank on).
Everyone should be given the opportunity to live their lives as well as possible.
The first bolded part: I know this is anecdotal at best, but I do not know a single person that does not know of the potential dangers of being overweight. So, I can't follow what you're arguing here. Maybe it's different in the US.
The second bolded part: People should be free to choose whatever they want for themselves. As far as I am concerned, people should be free to overeat as much as they want, take all the drugs they want and ultimately kill themselves when they want.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Oh I agree that personal health should be promoted. I think that it would be excellent if more people were physically healthy. But what I can't stand is the argument that people with personal health issues are just lazy and take the analysis no further.
I do not, for example, agree with Gustav all that much.
I do not, for example, agree with Gustav all that much.
Agreed. When 25% of the nation is obese and it continues to rise at a steady rate each year you have to realize it's not an individual problem anymore; but rather, a structural, societal problem. You can't just say, "lol, fat, lazy, pigs need to stop eating mcdonalds and go to the gym" and expect that is the solution.
UnblessedSoul
Member
Cause as humans they want quick and easy solutions to everything, from food, all the way down to trying to lose weight plus they have other commitments and not enough time, as for the really overweight people, psychological issues coupled with cheap and tasty food is all one needs.
astroturfing
Member
but the problem in America seems to be that any "nudging" in the right direction by the government would be seen as an attack on "individual freedom"... so what is there to do?
TheLastCandle
Member
I don't know why I constantly subject myself to GAF's overweight threads. It's always the same thing.
Opiate's post was worth it today, though.
Opiate's post was worth it today, though.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
We are quickly approaching the point - if we're not there already - where the obesity epidemic will be considered in the same terms as poverty is viewed by neocons: there only reason anyone is poor is because they're lazy.
Society's structure is fucked. That's all there is too it. That does not negate personality initiative at all, far from it. But people are coming out of the starting gate half blind folded and aimed in the wrong direction, educated with an incorrect map of the territory.
A tremendous amount of the effort involved in helping people improve their health begins with first undoing the damage society has done - you have to deprogram people half the time before you can even start remedial education.
Then there is the fact that, one of the ways in which society is fucked is that people are given plenty of reasons to just not care. A depressed, stressed, apathetic society creates a population with a sad mentality that is both wrecked inwardly and outwardly? Who'da thunk it.
Not only are people fat, but a large percentage of people are sickly. I can't tell you how many pill poppers I have in my office. What are the pills they're taking? Hell if I know, but I'm perfectly fine and don't need any types of meds. Not sure why so many people are on meds. Crazy.
And I know at least 4 people who have had kids recently with some type of issue (autism, celiac disease, intestines on the outside, etc). What the fukc is going on?!
And I know at least 4 people who have had kids recently with some type of issue (autism, celiac disease, intestines on the outside, etc). What the fukc is going on?!
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Excuses of all kinds... but I particularly take issue with the bold. No self-respecting coffee addict puts sugar in it. That's just wrong, man.
Well the way the government has gone about fixing the problem has been completely wrong. They've tried attacked a societal problem at the individual level. Not only does that piss people off who want the freedom to do whatever they want, but it doesn't address the big picture.
For example... why the hell is cheap, processed food so cheap? Because the government subsidizes corn to the point where farmers can grow the crop and do nothing with it and still make a profit. Instead, the farmers learned how to make every single thing we eat with corn. Soda, Juice, Ketchup, Soup, Beef, Chicken, Grains... it all has corn in it and such a high corn diet is unhealthy. If the government stopped subsidizing corn and instead subsidized natural, organic food then the large food companies would have an incentive to produce real, healthy food instead of this processed crap, and in turn our societies diet would become more healthy.
That's only one aspect of the whole obesity problem, but just right there would be a damn good start towards fixing it.
I know you and I both post in fitgaf but this is fucking obnoxious. Some people are trying to explain how the obesity epidemic arose and not just saying oh you're fucking lazy. They're not saying an individual can't change - it just takes a lot of effort and some people can't do it. I think this is the same situation as laughing at the poors and saying, lol you can get into the middle class/rich if you try hard enough. I'm not saying this excuses people for being unhealthy but it's easier to solve a problem once you understand the root of the issue.
From the diseases you listed - have you heard of the hygiene hypothesis? Modern day diseases related to the immune system may be due to lower exposure to infectious agents and bacteria.
ihearthawthats
Banned
i'm not sure if you have a weight problem or not, but you can squeeze in "excercise" in your daily life without setting aside time to going to a gym. you have time to go on gaf, you have time to at least get up and stretch. whenever you travel or are out and about in the office, take the stairs. i'm not sure how old your daughter is, but why not more physical activities? push-ups and sit-ups during tv commercials or get an exercise bike or small weights.
that being said, diet is probably just as important as exercise. if you can't get in good exercise, then balance it out with better diet. if your diet is bad, then you'll probably need to balance that out with better exercise.
to be honest i think theres just this whole stigma that staying in shape is hard work. it really isn't. becoming a body builder or a fitness model is definitely hard work, but who says that staying in shape requires either of those things?
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
It's the same type of food in that it's all a bunch of wheat, soy, sugar, and vegetable oil filled carb-bomb messes. I think you meant 'nikuman,' by the way.
I don't know what you're trying to prove other than the fact that you're probably uneducated.
Can anyone push themselves and be in shape if they want to? Absolutely, but obviously there's a lot more to that if 1/4 our of population is overweight. Especially if that 1/4 has just arisen in the past 30 years. For as long as humans have been alive there haven't been gyms, or fitness gurus, or anything, yet there was no obesity problem, ever.
This is a new problem brought about by a change in society.
Let me rephrase (and yeah I am speaking as a US citizen):
people may know they should healthy, but they don't know how to be so.
I agree that people should be free to make decisions for themselves. That is like, the very foundation of my being, that pursuit and idea of choice. But I don't think enough people are mentally equipped to deal with those choices. It's not that they aren't smart enough, but that they haven't been properly educated. They can make decisions, and they do. Just not well-informed ones.
Of course they can do it, it just takes a lot of effort.
Absolutely.
The problem doesn't lie with society, it's with people. People have always been lazy, now their laziness is catered to in the form of air conditioning and fried food handed to them through their car window. If there were McDonalds and Rascal scooters 200 years ago, people would've been just as obese. I mean, why do you think unhealthy food tastes so good? We didn't evolve Double Cheeseburger glands in the past 30 years, these high salt, high fat foods have always appealed to us, it's just a lot harder to get when you're living off the harvest each year for your food intake.
I appreciate trying to frame the obesity epidemic in a sociological light, I studied politics and sociology for 5 years, I understand what people are getting at. I assure you I know about wage disparity, low wages/cheap ingredients, etc, etc.
The reason most people are obese is because they're lazy.
astroturfing
Member
ohh yeah the subsidized high fructose corn syrup thing... yeah its a big one. and so messed up.
even when that is true, the laziness doesnt happen in a vacuum. people can become physically inactive ie "lazy" because of severe depression, a health condition and/or a million other reasons. things are complicated and just calling people lazy and expect themselves to correct their behavior is way too simplistic, silly even. not to mention douchy and mean.
Lord Ghirahim
Member
And one could argue poor nutrition is responsible for "laziness".
Johnny Cage In The Shower
Member
When people make threads like these I really wish they at least spend the time to write a sentence that describes their age, location and occupation. Without those, the OP sounds so vague and general.
Are you sitting on a park bench in Dubai? in London, in Atlanta or in Mumbai?
Are you a 20 year old healthy, athletic male working in construction and wondering why 40 year olds are fatter than you? or... you also happen to be over 30 years old with an office job, that doesn't allow you to get up and move around often?
Answering some of these in the OP before they are asked, may put a little more weight ( no pun intended) to your thread, just saying.
Are you sitting on a park bench in Dubai? in London, in Atlanta or in Mumbai?
Are you a 20 year old healthy, athletic male working in construction and wondering why 40 year olds are fatter than you? or... you also happen to be over 30 years old with an office job, that doesn't allow you to get up and move around often?
Answering some of these in the OP before they are asked, may put a little more weight ( no pun intended) to your thread, just saying.
I have allergies and asthma. I take a couple of pills a day for it. Do you? Does that make me sickly?
Just because people are proactive and aware of health problems does not make them sickly or weird.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Indeed. It goes both ways. As someone who was obese (bout 220lbs) when I was a teenager and became a marathon runner and bodybuilder as an adult, it really comes down to flipping the switch one day and saying enough is enough. It's an endless cycle of the mental dragging down the physical and then the physical dragging down the mental. Some people are strong enough to overcome, some not. No matter what you think, there is an undeniable separation of weak and strong, smart and dumb, whatever and whatever in our society, and sadly the majority is usually on the negative side.
While everything you say does make rational sense, it's really not that simple. It's surprising that you have studied sociology for 5 years and can't see how society has a role in all of this.
Here's a really good journal article from The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition:
http://www.ajcn.org/content/79/1/6.full
It talks about how individuals living in poverty and/or with low levels of educations are obese at a much higher rate than those with more money/more education.
The fact is processed, unhealthy food is more readily available and ready much quicker and much cheaper than healthy food. As I already mentioned above, the government corn subsidy program had a lot to do with this. To anyone wanting to understand this I recommend watching King Corn and/or Food, Inc. Michael Pollan's In Defense of Food is a great read about the food industry and our nations dietary problem as well.
There are so many factors involved. A depressed, overworked, marginalized population plays a role into people turning to food to cope. Children born to obese parents enter the world with the odds against them already and have to spend their whole developmental stage of their life being bombarded with images of the perfect body type and have to deal with being bullied about their weight. This leads to them being psychologically scarred, hating their bodies, and hating themselves. There's just so much more to it than, "you're lazy".
Are there people who are obese for the sole fact that they are lazy? Yes. Most have underlying issues though.
SouthernDragon
Member
Well, my parents kept it up when they were raising my sister and I, and we all still live at home.
Might I suggest incorporating your exercise with your child's playtime? I'm being very sincere here, it worked with my mom and dad. When I was very young they got my a tricycle and then a bicycle so I could go out when they did. I also had rollerskates, a scooter, and a skateboard at different times. We'd play catch and soccer together, too.
Exercise doesn't mean time on a treadmill, away from the family, although you can go to the gym as a family when your kid is of an age to do so. When I was in high school the family went as a group, and we saw plenty of other families there, too. Trust me when I say that few things made me as happy as seeing my mom and dad at the gym.
If people want to eat garbage foods and neglect their bodies for whatever reason then so be it. The only people that I am concerned about is my children for I am their guide until they are old enough to make life decisions for themselves. Sometimes I feel bad and I wish that I could help those that are so obese that it's obviously difficult for them to even walk, but it's counter-productive IMO to project my ideals on others unless they specifically ask for it. Why worry and stress about how random people decide to treat their bodies?
I'm amazed at the dichotomy of thought at this forum sometimes.
It's mostly a liberal leaning forum where everyone seems to be champions of the poor and down-trodden. People who, in their view, haven't gotten a fair deal in life, been run roughshod over by global corporations, and stepped all over by the rich. You'll find an unending amount of sympathy for those people......unless they are fat. Then all of a sudden they're just lazy, pieces of shit, who can't control themselves, have no self-discipline, too stupid to think for themselves because of lack of education, and costing us all a fortune in health care.
The fat police among you sound just as bad as the worst of republicans sometimes.
It's mostly a liberal leaning forum where everyone seems to be champions of the poor and down-trodden. People who, in their view, haven't gotten a fair deal in life, been run roughshod over by global corporations, and stepped all over by the rich. You'll find an unending amount of sympathy for those people......unless they are fat. Then all of a sudden they're just lazy, pieces of shit, who can't control themselves, have no self-discipline, too stupid to think for themselves because of lack of education, and costing us all a fortune in health care.
The fat police among you sound just as bad as the worst of republicans sometimes.
Pretty much has to be in the US. I've never seen so many fat people as I do here. When I travel, all the fat people I see are tourist Americans. Then again, like most I usually travel to major cities with public transportation where people walk a lot.
One thing I've noticed through travels is that Americans always seem the most stressed out. Work, family whatever...they give themselves tons of shit to do. Stuff like health and exercise takes a back seat, to well, everything. Even the concept of fast food is foreign in many countries, as it seems less important to rush everything.
All anecdotal. As for the debate on whether to judge or not to judge.... It sucks but Don't really give a shit. If you are a smoker you get judged the same way by some, as people do for any other choice that they make. Being fat is not pleasing to the eye for many people, and promotes a negative response. As a person that does choose to wake up early and fit exercise and food in my daily routine, in the back of my head I do think it's pretty lazy to Not make the time. I think that even if your skinny though...people sacrificing themselves for daily bullshit just irks me.
I think eating the right foods is infinitely more important than exercise in terms of losing/gaining weight. I lost 30 pounds (basicallly at my ideal weight) just by cutting all of the shitty food i used to eat and started eating better. I did zero exercise. Will i be more healthy if I started exercising? Sure, but diet will help you far more if you are very overweight to obese than exercise will
Cognitive dissonance is a heavily over used term on here (almost as much as misogyny) but this is a genuine example.
You should be concerned about other people. You and I fund Medicare and Medicaid.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
The only anti-fat sentiment I see is towards those who are fat and do nothing but make excuses/are unwilling to do anything to better themselves.
Being poor and downtrodden are not necessarily states of being that one can just get up and fix on his or her on. Being fat, however, almost universally is. With the proper education (readily available on the Internet), anyone can right their situation without too much difficulty.
Being poor is absolutely a state of being. No one gave me anything but I worked my ass off and I always squeezed in time throughout working two jobs to educate myself and I was able to pull myself out of poverty. If I can do it, then anyone can do it. People are just lazy, that's all it is. I can't believe anyone would try to say there's any other reason for being poor than being lazy.
Devolution
Member
Let's say for shits and giggles 99% of obese people are lazy. Okay what now? It's still not just an individual problem is it? What are the solutions? What can we as a society do to encourage people to exercise and eat right? Are we doing enough? The simple answer is no. There is this idea that society shouldn't "coddle" people but if this really is an issue that needs tackling then there simply needs to be incentives and less indirect tacit encouragement to become obese. What do I mean by this?
Real lunches at school.
Better education on eating habits.
More athletic programs for kids and adults subsidized by the state. Playing a sport can be vastly more fun than just running around the block or visiting the gym.
Subsidized gym visits for overweight people.
No more subsidizes for corn. HFCS is in fucking everything.
Banning of transfat products and force companies to remove it from their line of goods.
Better transportation options. More dense residential/commercial areas that allows people to walk to a store and purchase fresh goods. Farmers markets are great too.
Cheaper healthier alternatives.
But finding reasonable adjustments to help people along and follow through is too difficult, go lose some weight you fatass slob.
Real lunches at school.
Better education on eating habits.
More athletic programs for kids and adults subsidized by the state. Playing a sport can be vastly more fun than just running around the block or visiting the gym.
Subsidized gym visits for overweight people.
No more subsidizes for corn. HFCS is in fucking everything.
Banning of transfat products and force companies to remove it from their line of goods.
Better transportation options. More dense residential/commercial areas that allows people to walk to a store and purchase fresh goods. Farmers markets are great too.
Cheaper healthier alternatives.
But finding reasonable adjustments to help people along and follow through is too difficult, go lose some weight you fatass slob.
ElectricBlue187
Member
This is happening at least where I live there seems to be a movement in urban planning to end sprawl and encourage more mixed development, more because it creates nicer looking neighborhoods and reduces traffic rather than its healthier
To be honest I can't tell if I was, either.
SouthernDragon
Member
I agree, actually. One big thing is that we rarely, rarely eat out and when we do it's not fast food (with the exception of Subway). You can do a lot for yourself by eating differently, in a healthy way.
Problem is people get so used to the taste of bad food that transitioning to good food is hard. I think that's a factor, aside from cost and prep time.
But my anecdote is to encourage the poster I quoted to work out. His child will find it fun, and it'll create one more thing for them to share. I'm also sure his kid will appreciate their dad being healthy and sticking around longer.
Devolution
Member
What's amazing to me is how many people don't even capitalize on farmer's markets. It's a great way to pick up stuff that tastes wonderful, hasn't been left in a warehouse for days and is a cheaper alternative. And if you get cozy with certain vendors they just give you shit for free since it's not going to be sold the next week anyway.
OrangeJulius
Member
This is very true. You can't just look at someone you don't even know and classify them as lazy. There could be one or more underlying circumstances at play that said person may have little to no control over.
The old cliched saying "don't judge a book by it's cover" applies.
Mook1e
Member
I can't believe there are still people who believe it's the meat that is making Americans fat.
I knew this was a fallacy decades ago despite the b.s. science people tried to use to explain it. Even the article you link to explains Americans have eaten many times more meat than other countries for at least 100 years, but we haven't had the obesity problem that long.
Let's break down an average "fattening American meal" a large McDonalds bigmac meal has two flattened patties of beef with a huge sugary drink packed full of carbs, a large french fries full of carbs, and three buns with McDonald's famous special sauce slathered on it which is pretty much sugar sauce.
Seriously, it's not hard to figure out.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Don't get me started, OP. Go walk into a Walmart, and you'll see all the out of shape, obese people. Some are able to walk, while others are so fat they use a motorized scooter. I see their karts filled with donuts, soda, pizzas, and sugary cereals. I'm depressed by the image, yet disgusted at the same time.
- Status