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Why are so many senior Starfleet officers corrupt and/or insane?
- Thread starter Mama Robotnik
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Succinct Verbosity
Member
Sometimes I think it might be a case of Admirals seeing the wider picture and the overall frigilety of the federation. True, I think there have been Admirals that have made terrible decisions and, worse still, committed treason; but I have to believe that, like our leaders today, they know what sinister stuff happens in order to protect the naive idealism of its citizens. However, like today, I think that lower ranking officers or citizens pushing back prevents an essential compromise so that one camp doesn't completely destroy the other.
BigJonsson
Member
Because only the lamewad crazy people want to get promoted, the sane cool captains stay as captains.........Kirk knew this well
Because they seem to be the only ones who realize humanity is surrounded on all sides by alien races that want to murder the fuck out of humans. As much as I love Trek and many of it's ideals, it always frustrated me that starfleet didn't take it's security more seriously. Although I've heard it explained that there was a very long period of peace after the Khitomer accords were signed that went on for so long that Starfleet got complacent.
D
Deleted member 102362
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, but that was the parasite's doing, not Quinn's.
This is the question I have asked myself since TNG. In TNG the crew of the Enterprise are pretty much the Federation's ideal crew. Everyone else though in the Federation seems to be incompetent, crazy, just plan slimy, or all of the above. The same carries though DS9 for the most part as well.
Voyager turns it on its head and makes the man cast the incompetent crazy ones. Though I might be biased as the whole Tuvix thing made me regard Janeway as a cold blooded murderer and the rest of the crew as being complacent in that.
Voyager turns it on its head and makes the man cast the incompetent crazy ones. Though I might be biased as the whole Tuvix thing made me regard Janeway as a cold blooded murderer and the rest of the crew as being complacent in that.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
because its a tv show and it has to be interesting.
if they didnt have to think up a new story every episode, the admirals and stuff would probably be the lamest vanilla characters ever, and that would fit in with the lore
if they didnt have to think up a new story every episode, the admirals and stuff would probably be the lamest vanilla characters ever, and that would fit in with the lore
should have cloned tuvix with the transporter a la Thomas Riker, then split one and let the other live
Dinosaur Tamer
Member
I always thought giving Janeway rank superiority over Picard and actually showing her ordering him around was the most ridiculous part of that silly movie. Even before I started watching SFDebris and consequently realized that the "Janeway is actually insane" theory is the only way to explain the majority of Voyager's episodes.
Ben Finney
At one point while working as an engineer, he opened a circuit for repair, but forgot to close it when finished. When his best friend James T Kirk arrived to relieve him, Kirk observed the error and corrected it. If left open for a few minutes longer, the circuit would have destroyed the entire ship, killing everyone on board.
Several years later, after it became clear to him that his career and his dreams to become a captain were completely and irreparably destroyed due to a single reprimand, he went mad, faked his own death, and framed his former best friend for the crime of negligence causing death (a charge which would have similarly ended Captain Kirk's career). When his plan was thwarted, he tried to destroy the ship, Kirk, and himself, along with several judges and lawyers, stopping only when he was told that his daughter was also in danger.
He would likely have become a captain, but he was pushed to insanity over the course of several years for failing to maintain an impossible standard. He sought misplaced murderous revenge against the wrong target/targets since his real target was an unidentifiable, faceless system. He was suicidal, and was willing to cause at least one starship worth of property damage. But he was still willing to halt his insane plans for the sake of his daughter, and was probably rehabilitated after his mental state came to light (he did find a really good lawyer).
Insanity rating ***
At one point while working as an engineer, he opened a circuit for repair, but forgot to close it when finished. When his best friend James T Kirk arrived to relieve him, Kirk observed the error and corrected it. If left open for a few minutes longer, the circuit would have destroyed the entire ship, killing everyone on board.
Several years later, after it became clear to him that his career and his dreams to become a captain were completely and irreparably destroyed due to a single reprimand, he went mad, faked his own death, and framed his former best friend for the crime of negligence causing death (a charge which would have similarly ended Captain Kirk's career). When his plan was thwarted, he tried to destroy the ship, Kirk, and himself, along with several judges and lawyers, stopping only when he was told that his daughter was also in danger.
He would likely have become a captain, but he was pushed to insanity over the course of several years for failing to maintain an impossible standard. He sought misplaced murderous revenge against the wrong target/targets since his real target was an unidentifiable, faceless system. He was suicidal, and was willing to cause at least one starship worth of property damage. But he was still willing to halt his insane plans for the sake of his daughter, and was probably rehabilitated after his mental state came to light (he did find a really good lawyer).
Insanity rating ***
Coffee Dog
Banned
So, I havent seen DS9 in many years, but does Sisko get the five star for being just as crazy and winning?
Because if I remember correctly he assassinated an ambassador to bring the romulans into the war and poisoned a maquis planet's atnosphere because eddington pissed him off.
Fuck I loved DS9. Its really due for a rewatch.
Because if I remember correctly he assassinated an ambassador to bring the romulans into the war and poisoned a maquis planet's atnosphere because eddington pissed him off.
Fuck I loved DS9. Its really due for a rewatch.
Kitschkraft
Member
God, Janeway does my nut in. Can't stand that character.
Great list OP. A very enjoyable read.
As to the question, I assume the vast majority of Star Fleet officers/admirals aren't insane.
He should have taken the Admiralty, otherwise we get lunatic's like Janeway in there. Picard/Sisko should start their own little group in Star Fleet.
Great list OP. A very enjoyable read.
As to the question, I assume the vast majority of Star Fleet officers/admirals aren't insane.
He should have taken the Admiralty, otherwise we get lunatic's like Janeway in there. Picard/Sisko should start their own little group in Star Fleet.
As idealized as a society may be there are always going to be people who want more than what society has to offer. Be it from greed or just mental instability.
In other cases even in an idealized society there are people who are needed who accept they sometimes must do things people might be appaled at so others can live that idealized life.
In other cases even in an idealized society there are people who are needed who accept they sometimes must do things people might be appaled at so others can live that idealized life.
I loved in Serenity how the antagonist knew that he needed to do the things that he did for society, but knew that he could therefore never be part of that society.
It's weird, at least in the original series there are a few non-crazy admirals.
I think plot wise you've got to put the sheer percentage of nutter/non-nutter admirals to a combination of people being promoted out of the way of cocking things up, the 80s/90s attitude to disrespect for authority, Section 31 and the neural parasite being more widespread than revealed.
That said, Sisko was right. And so was Admiral Dougherty (though a tactical moron, unlike Sisko).
I think plot wise you've got to put the sheer percentage of nutter/non-nutter admirals to a combination of people being promoted out of the way of cocking things up, the 80s/90s attitude to disrespect for authority, Section 31 and the neural parasite being more widespread than revealed.
That said, Sisko was right. And so was Admiral Dougherty (though a tactical moron, unlike Sisko).
Red Arremer
Member
I remember reading in an interview that these neural parasite aliens were supposed to be part of the Borg collective, when the idea was still in its infancy.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
No question, but seeing an old man round house Riker was fantastic.
StopMakingSense
Member
Yeah, Starfleet is definitely one of those "fail upwards" sort of organizations.
Still gets me.
I don't think Sisko was crazy, etc. He actually didn't make excuses for his actions in the end and accepted the ones that went to far. What he did largely made perfect sense and got results.
Still gets me.
I don't think Sisko was crazy, etc. He actually didn't make excuses for his actions in the end and accepted the ones that went to far. What he did largely made perfect sense and got results.
Yup, its 's why I love Sisko so much I doubt Picard would have ever done such a thing. DS9 was all about asking how much were you willing to sacrifice to save your very way of life. Sisko never was portrayed as insane, just as a man grappling with some very hard choices. Janeway on the other hand is bat shit crazy and on top of that down right terrible at her job.
Jean-Luc would've laid down the verbal smackdown and gotten the Dominion to coexist happily with everyone else. In one episode, a two-parter at most.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
I think I know what you're referring to.
The Borg Collective was originally going to be insectoid aliens but because of budget constraints, they scrapped it. I don't think it had anything to do with these parasites.
Mama Robotnik
Member
Yeah, from what I understand that's correct. According to Memory Alpha:
The first concept art of the humanoid Borg is interesting:
Plus random find and nearly off-topic.The Origin of The Borg.
Daniel Jackson
Member
Well Picard was already offered to level up to Admiral in the episode Coming of Age, but he refused because he didn't want TNG to end after just one season.
captmorgan
Banned
The fact is we need a lot of these people on the "Wall" so to speak.
Its like the saying the only thing that can destroy a monster is another monster.
The federation may have been the pure utopia but when evil knocks on the door... "good" will lose every time.
Its like the saying the only thing that can destroy a monster is another monster.
The federation may have been the pure utopia but when evil knocks on the door... "good" will lose every time.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
How sad does it make y'all that all the actors were contracted to an eighth season of TNG but the studio cancelled it so they could make more money selling reruns
ZeroGravity
Member
A lot of them don't really seem insane or corrupt. Many of the situations they were involved in tend to be extremely complex and morally ambiguous. Their actions could easily be argued as justified - but because they're not the main cast, they're usually not portrayed in the best light.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Better to exit on that high note of "All Good Things..." which really covered for most of Season 7 being pretty meh.
Red Arremer
Member
Yeah. But I'm pretty sure those parasites were specifically mentioned as being part of the insectoid version of the collective.
According to Memory Alpha:
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
I am probably one of the few that really doesn't like the V'Ger/Borg connection. Roddenberry hinted at it (perhaps jokingly) but I just never could get too much into the Borg, even despite the fact First Contact is perhaps my favorite ST movie. I love V'Ger. I guess I could go with the idea that the Voyager probe went through space and time and maybe created the Borg who then separated with a different, more aggressive purpose. Like, V'Ger is in search for knowledge and it's creators but the Borg just searching for knowledge by assimilating unwilling victims.
Mama Robotnik
Member
I struggle to justify most of them:
Admiral Cartwright - The Klingons were in a weakened position and no longer had the resources to be a threat to the Federation. Their Chancellor wanted Peace. Cartwright had him murdered (and attempted to do the same to his daughter) and arranged for two heroes to take the wrap. Reprehensible.
Admiral Dougherty - Okay, he wanted to harness the power of the mysterious energies on the planet for the betterment of mankind. I get that. His decision to involve the alien drug dealer sadists was complete insanity however. Literally anyone would have been a better choice. Idiot.
Admiral Forrest - sort of a joke entry. In the Enterprise narrative, Captain Archer is a great and intelligent man who is appropriate for the mission to stop the Xindi. The problem is that, in the show, Archer is portrayed as being (at times) a complete and total incompetent (SFDebris) and wholly wholly unsuitable for the responsibility.
Admiral Haftel - Complete and total insensitive prick who terrified an infant so much, she literally died from emotional trauma. Killed Data's daughter, albeit unintentionally. Arsehole.
Admiral Janeway - we all watch SFDebris, we know what a lunatic she is.
Admiral Leyton - tried to conquer the Earth based on a threat that he himself engineered. Lied to the crew of a Starship to get them to fire on another Starship, killing several.
Admiral Nakamura - authorised the disassembly of Data based on the flimsiest of proposals by a man not expert enough to safely perform this task. If Picard hadn't fought this, and fought it hard, Data would have been dead. Terrible.
Admiral Nechayev - prioritised the needs of the Cardassians over her own citizens, and sold their worlds to the Cardassian Empire - a race who historically have been shown to completely overrule their own treaties and invade neighbouring worlds regardless. Inevitably tens of thousands of Federation citizens were killed, and the Feds were at war with the Cardassians mere years later anyway, rendering their sacrifice totally pointless. A stupid decision that still makes no sense.
Admiral Ross - sort of understandable, okay.
Admiral Pressman - I get where he was coming from with the Federation cloak - the concession to the Romulans who have made repeated attempts to invade the Feds regardless - is one of the stupidest things in the entire history of Star Trek. His approach - and willingness to sacrifice multiple crews - is unjustifiable.
Captain Braxton - wacko crazed lunatic with a time machine.
Admiral Satie - despicable woman, who destroyed the careers of innocent men for sick thrills.
Admiral Jameson - Loony.
Commodore Decker - tragic but still insane nonetheless.
Commodore Stocker - complete idiot.
Captain Garth - another tragic figure, but completely completely insane.
Captain Maxwell - hmmm. He was proved right at the end of the episode, but he destroyed multiple ships on the flimsiest of evidence. Far far too impulsive.
Captain Ransom - he did ensure his crew's survival, but his incineration of the innocent aliens for fuel is completely reprehensible.
Captain Tracey - Nutter.
googleplex
Member
Admiral Ross dose not belong on that list. Ross was a badass that fought along side Sisko on the front lines of last battle of the Dominion war.
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