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[King Gilga]

RPGs as a genre are just in general very time consuming, I wouldn't want a 10 hour jrpg any more than I'd want a 10 hour fallout/skyrim.

That said those lengths are also the reason I only have time to play JRPGs on handhelds.

Brave Story is 10 hours, right?

My completed brave story save was 33 hours so I don't think it's quite that short, (though im not the most efficient player). I felt like it was the perfect lenght.

Loved that game though, one of my favorite PSP games.

 

[Nachos]

It seems like a lot of people are taking this all to mean "I want all JRPGs to be short," as opposed to simply wanting more variety in length. I love JRPGs, but I think a lot if people have a really narrow view of what they could be. I think most people asking about this are asking for the novella equivalent of a JRPG - short and sweet but with a much more focused scope. Just as shorter stories don't immediately invalidate more longer ones, shorter JRPGs would only serve to provide more variety in the types of experiences available.

I agree that as it stands, the typical JRPG formula generally doesn't lend itself towards more consolidated experiences, but there would be nothing stopping the game in question from bucking tradition a bit to accommodate the smaller scope without feeling neutered. Barkley Shut Up and Jam is one of my favorite JRPGs, and I can easily beat it in five hours. Not every story needs to be a lofty tale of saving the world. Ten hours is too long to develop a cast of characters? There are plenty of ways to make a story with only one character, even if they are more psychological in nature, but even so, how many purely psychological RPGs are there?

Constraint breeds creativity, and not the other way around. A good game designer would find a way to make the JRPG formula fit the timeframe, even if the entirety of the usual convention wasn't intact. It's very well possible that these sorts of experiments would create new mechanics, new conventions, that could be adopted by their more longer counterparts, wholesale or with some modifications.

At the end of the day, I think it's because the tradition is hard to escape completely. People have such a pretty well-defined of what being a JRPG entails that they're not willing to do more than provide a mere twist on what's already been established. I'm kinda bummed out that the rise of indie games hasn't really done much in the way of being more experimental, taking the idea of a game jam and extrapolating it to a more longer experience.

Hell, on the other hand, why don't we have a JRPG equivalent to the Odyssey, taking 200+ hours minimum to finish its main quest alone? Variety is the spice of life, and I can't see how extending that to JRPGs can be anything but a good thing, assuming it doesn't come at the expense of the format people clearly already know and love.

 

[DistortionOfReality]

You should play it. Way better than their other JRPG, Ni No Kuni.

Nooooooooo cover your ears OP! It's not truuuue!

 

[Clockwork5]

this thread keeps on delivering :lol

I keep seeing comments about how the "shorter is better" crowd doesn't like everything that makes a JRPG what it is. Story, character development, leveling up, cutscenes etc.

Do you guys just want 10 hours of turn based battles? You know you can just play the game for 10 hours and then sell it if none of that other stuff matters.

 

[Moon_frogger]

Lol it's so trendy now to say that everything over 10 hours in length is 'artificially padded'. What nonsense.

However breath of fire: dragon quarter can be beaten in 10 hours and is well worth replaying aftewards. Sure there are plenty of games that could use some trimming down but that doesn't mean anything longer than 10 hours is 'bloated'

 

[firehawk12]

I have to imagine part of it is to try to delay trade ins as fast as possible. Especially since used games in Japan are almost always as good as new.

 

[Caronte]

I can't help but feel like you'd solve so many problems with JRPGs by cutting out 75% of the bullshit. You'd cut down on needless dialogue, convulusion, grinding....

Seems like you want to play a different genre.

 

[Orayn]

I keep seeing comments about how the "shorter is better" crowd doesn't like everything that makes a JRPG what it is. Story, character development, leveling up, cutscenes etc.

Do you guys just want 10 hours of turn based battles? You know you can just play the game for 10 hours and then sell it if none of that other stuff matters.

I somehow experienced all of those thing in Barkely Shut Up and Jam Gaiden, and that game tops out around 8-9 hours if you fight every battle and search through every nook and cranny. Granted, the cast is pretty small and combat is fairly straightforward when you figure out what each character's most effective attacks are, but overall it felt like a very tight, effective distillation of the JRPG experience into a shorter span of time. The best part is that it was very mechanically smart and not just comedic, with enemies visible on the map, limited and avoidable random encounters, Super Mario RPG inspired combat, and a reasonable difficulty curve.

It was basically a coffeebreak roguelike for a different genre, and it was absolutely wonderful.

 

[Meccanical]

At that point it would stop being a JRPG.

Yeah pretty much.

 

[Clockwork5]

I somehow experienced all of those thing in Barkely Shut Up and Jam Gaiden, and that game tops out around 8-9 hours if you fight every battle and search through every nook and cranny. Granted, the cast is pretty small and combat is fairly straightforward when you figure out what each character's most effective attacks are, but overall it felt like a very tight, effective distillation of the JRPG experience into a shorter experience. The best part is that it was very mechanically smart and not just comedic, with enemies visible on the map, limited and avoidable random encounters, Super Mario RPG inspired combat, and a reasonable difficulty curve.

It was basically a coffeebreak roguelike for a different genre, and it was absolutely wonderful.

That sounds great (and I may check it out as it also sounds ridiculous)My comment was not directed toward you. Just those that have said story, cutscenes, dialogue and leveling up are pointless.

 

[Empty]

i love long adventures but i would like more shorter rpgs. crimson shroud was a real breath of fresh air for me, for this reason. the shorter length allowed them to do different things with the pace of battles and tell a different kind of story than the epic adventure. it was brilliant.

 

[Moon_frogger]

I have to imagine part of it is to try to delay trade ins as fast as possible. Especially since used games in Japan are almost always as good as new.

You're on to something here. I always thought it was just an attitude propogated by reviewers that never pay for anything and have no time to play the games they want. That causes people to complain so much but I guess if finishing a lot of games in the shortest period of time for trade ins is common then padded length could be an issue

 

[Link Man]

Final Fantasy V can be beaten relatively quickly, and is one of my favorites in the series. Quite replayable as well.

 

[Clockwork5]

Why are there no 10 hour MMOs? Not all have sub fees, so that is not the reason...

 

[Uthred]

Why are there no 10 hour MMOs? Not all have sub fees, so that is not the reason...

Why is there no wet fire? The GAF Thread

 

[TwoDurans]

The Japanese are a grindy people. They like doing tasks repeatedly to unlock higher levels, gear, powers, etc.

 

[Modedude]

I do find the time to go through a 50 hour JRPG, but I must admit that a fair few of them don't feel like they have enough content to really fit that length. Some also have a habit of over-doing it in the dialogue, Golden Sun for example.

The thing is, movies manage to be epic in scale and have a huge adventure within 2-3 hours, yet a game like that feels short for most people.

The thing about RPG stories, is that they are either save the world focused (which I honestly think you could just pull off in like 5 hours in a game) or put their focus on characters.

The thing about JRPGs is they often put a focus on a large cast of characters, and it's hard for a story to juggle that in such a shorter amount of time. I'm not saying a good writer can't pull it off, I'd really like to see it.

Or put a compromise the other way and have the same length game but playable in shorter bursts.

 

[Winnie the Pimp]

10 hours might be pushing it but i DO agree that most JRPGs are way WAY too long for their own good!

Very rarely can a game sustain your interest for THAT long before you get sick of either the battle system, the characters, the story etc.

I'd say 20-30 hours would be perfect!

Don't get me wrong, i loved Persona 3 for instance, but did it REALLY need all that mostly useless dungeon grinding to make it a 80 hour game? (the first time through and for ME obviously)

 

[Black Door]

Why are there no 10 hour MMOs? Not all have sub fees, so that is not the reason...

Uhhh...you might as well just join a forum, then...

 

[TheChocolateWar]

The Japanese are a grindy people. They like doing tasks repeatedly to unlock higher levels, gear, powers, etc.

As are we if Minecraft and Starbound are any indication. At least they get rewards for their grinding. Personally I enjoy games with grinding. Adds longevity and makes a 60 dollar game feel worth the money.

 

[Sulik2]

Japan seems to culturally enjoy grinding, so their RPGs tend to reflect that mentality. Focused, streamlined experiences don't really cross the mind of most JRPG developers.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

Most JRPG's aren't 100 hours long anyways, my favorite one, Mother 3 is about 24 hours long.

Crimson Shroud is 5 hours long, and the Ys series(more of ARPG) are about 7-10 hours each.

We already have short as fuck games everywhere, don't mess with JPRG's. Most of the time they are supposed to be long.

 

[Majestad]

OP should play Crimson Shroud for 3DS. It's awesome.

 

[grumble]

I'm playing a JRPG right now, and there's definitely a lot of filler. A cleaner experience would definitely improve many of the titles.

 

[TheSpoiler]

As are we if Minecraft and Starbound are any indication. At least they get rewards for their grinding. Personally I enjoy games with grinding. Adds longevity and makes a 60 dollar game feel worth the money.

Hell, we don't even get rewards for doing main missions in GTAV most of the time!

Look, I work three freelancing jobs. I don't have as much time as I did when I was a kid, but I can still enjoy JRPGs. What really, really helps is savestating. It's wrong and I shouldn't do it blah blah blah, but it's much easier to hit a button and come back to it than it is to find a save point, some of which can be daunting (Vagrant Story, why do you refuse to give me save points before some bosses?!).

I mean, compare that to other games. Dynasty Warriors lets you save almost anywhere, and yet the grinding in that game isn't compared to JRPGs even though it can get a little tedious.

 

[Zwei]

Play Xenogears or Dragon Warrior VII. They're perfect bite-sized rpgs.

 

[Soriku]

I don't necessarily have a problem with the long JRPGS, just when it's obvious that plot points or quests are added to lengthen the game. This is what is really bugging me as I play through Tales of Xillia.

Don't know how far you are but the second half is basically no bullshit. Very little filler. Something major is happening all the time.

This is nonsense, most JRPG systems are not deep at all, the time you spend playing/grinding simply is to raise numbers to meet game stat checkpoints to continue the story. Oh you can't beat that part? You got to level up for another 2-3 hours first.

It's artificial barriers like used in MMOs to stretch content longevity.

People stop making wrong statements about a genre you don't even play.

Anyway I agree witj derrick. You need at least 20 hours to properly flesh the games. 25 hours is a good minimum length, and there are 25 hour RPGs. 10 is far too short.

 

[Shiloa]

I know they aren't Japanese, but the only JRPG style games I even completed this gen were the first two Penny Arcade titles.

Classic line up and take turns battle system, it's download only and playable in a few hours each. They are nothing spectacular, but enjoyable enough.

 

[jon bones]

He's right to a small degree. People who choose to let other things take priority over gaming shouldn't then demand everything bend to their will when others are perfectly happy with how it is.

But I have no sympathy for people who claim to have no time anymore and want shorter games. They chose to have a life like that just like I chose to have one without a wife and kids so I can focus on doing things that make me happy. You live and deal with the consequences no matter what choice you make.

wait wait wait

you can't be serious

people with careers, hobbies or girlfriends can't complain about how certain genres are handled? are jrpgs only for those people who have such little in their lives that gaming is their #1 priority?

believe it or not, the gaming demographic is not just made up of mmo players who want 200 hour time sinks. there are many gamers who prefer things like portal, the last of us or grim fandango. tight, focused games that leave me plenty of time for dates, books, other games, family, friends and partying.

 

[RSLAEV]

Get a handheld. The sleep function does wonders.

I just finished Persona 2 Innocent Sin on the PSP. 59 HOURS

They could have easily cut that in half. I sincerely thought about giving up a couple times because I wasn't having fun, I was just driven to see it through.

 

[TheSpoiler]

wait wait wait

you can't be serious

people with careers, hobbies or girlfriends can't complain about how certain genres are handled? are jrpgs only for those people who have such little in their lives that gaming is their #1 priority?

believe it or not, the gaming demographic is not just made up of mmo players who want 200 hour time sinks. there are many gamers who prefer things like portal, the last of us or grim fandango. tight, focused games that leave me plenty of time for dates, books, other games, family, friends and partying.

I agree with you mostly, but the entire genre isn't just one standard thing - i.e., grinding and padding. I understand that some games hold a lot of that, but it's not the whole, as demonstrated by the suggestions on here.

Two things need to occur in this topic for a consensus to be reached - some RPGs should be tightened, but some need to contain the length still.

This is with all genres. Fighting games are notoriously high on the entry barrier for casuals, but the depth should not be lost. How do we fix this? By keeping the depth BUT giving newcomers a good training mode and the materials to get better.

See what I'm saying? Cut the fat but keep the meat.

Edit: For both sides, realize that there are options. We have a lot of games that cater to both, no need to degrade either type for personal reasons.

 

[CambriaRising]

I own a business, and have a wife and kid. This doesn't stop be from playing long games, they just take me a bit longer to beat.

I get kinda bummed when a game is 10 hours or less.

 

[Paracelsus]

The Last Remnant played the wrong way lasts less than 10 hours. If you play it the right way is better than all three FFXIII games combined but also lasts over 80 hours.

Oh, Infinite Undiscovery can be beaten in roughly 15 hours and the same goes for Eternal Sonata.

 

[Sgt.Pepper]

Even FPS(s) take more than 10 hours to me.

 

[Shiina]

wait wait wait

you can't be serious

people with careers, hobbies or girlfriends can't complain about how certain genres are handled? are jrpgs only for those people who have such little in their lives that gaming is their #1 priority?

believe it or not, the gaming demographic is not just made up of mmo players who want 200 hour time sinks. there are many gamers who prefer things like portal, the last of us or grim fandango. tight, focused games that leave me plenty of time for dates, books, other games, family, friends and partying.

Not everything is meant to cater to your interests. There are plenty of genres that I don't care about or have shifted away from my interests and I don't want developers to go out of their way and change them just to appeal to me. It would be unfair to their original target audience and fanbase.

 

[Derrick01]

wait wait wait

you can't be serious

people with careers, hobbies or girlfriends can't complain about how certain genres are handled? are jrpgs only for those people who have such little in their lives that gaming is their #1 priority?

believe it or not, the gaming demographic is not just made up of mmo players who want 200 hour time sinks. there are many gamers who prefer things like portal, the last of us or grim fandango. tight, focused games that leave me plenty of time for dates, books, other games, family, friends and partying.

Then do those things but don't complain when you can't fit a certain game into your schedule. That's YOUR choice. My choice is to have enough time to play the games I'm interested in at the expense of other things, but you don't see me complaining about not having a girlfriend or whatever else on the Off Topic section on gaf do you? I made my choice and am happy with it. So should people on the other side.

edit: and to make sure we're clear I'm not talking about a career. That's a need to survive at a comfortable level in life. A girlfriend or going to parties on the weekend isn't though.

 

[Steel]

RPGs as a genre are just in general very time consuming, I wouldn't want a 10 hour jrpg any more than I'd want a 10 hour fallout/skyrim.

Pretty much how I feel. If you want something short, there are genres for that. The benefit to buying an rpg, however, is that they will last you months worth of sit downs.

 

[Winnie the Pimp]

Part of the reason why gaming as we knew it is currently transforming into something else is the fact that a LOT of the adult population simply do not have the TIME anymore to game like they used to when younger! This is why all these smartphone games etc. are so popular. "Fun" little timewasters instead of epic 90 hour RPGs.

Honestly i regret this evolution, and wish i weren't so myself. I also regret not having the time to game as much as i used to but that's reality i guess!

So yeah, i'd be in favor of shorter JRPGs so that some of us could still enjoy one of our favorite genres albeit in smaller doses!

Do keep making the longer ones as well though, because SOME people still do have a lot of gaming time on their hands!

 

[Ossom]

I think Vagrant Story is suppose to be a 10-hr JRPG.

Apparently it is just over 20.

http://www.howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=10866

I use hltb quite often as a gauge, but the bottom line is that if I really want to play a game then I will play it, regardless of length.

 

[Steel]

Do keep making the longer ones as well though, because SOME people still do have a lot of gaming time on their hands!

I think this is kind of a false impression with long games. You can complete a long game with a lot of sit downs when you don't have a lot of free time, you don't have to beat it in one or two sittings at all. Why would you prefer to play something that would only last you a couple sit downs as compared to something that would last you a ton of 1-2 hour gaming sessions when both cost you the same amount of money? I simply don't understand this.

 

[Lothar]

Cutting down on the dialogue would not hurt any JRPG. only anime fans seem to enjoy the stories. i can't think of any other fandom that thinks more = better.

Why would anyone play a JRPG if not for the story? If the story is shit, the game is usually considered shit. Case in point: FFXIII. The gameplay was actually one of the few good things the game had going for it. But it couldn't come close to saving the game.

 

[Llyranor]

I often feel like JRPGs overstay their welcome with slow pacing and filler (things I especially find annoying: high encounter rate, sluggish text speed you can't change, slow walking speed, slow battle animations you can't skip; none of which affect the game's quality in any positive way). While 10 hrs might require you to cut too much of what makes a JRPG a JRPG, 20 (to 30) hrs can be a sweet spot. And it can be done. Chrono Trigger, FF4, WEWY all have brisk pacing and can be finished in that time in a first playthrough, and still be excellent JRPGs. So what about players who want more content in their JRPGs? Just put more emphasis on OPTIONAL exploration and sidequests (complete sidestories, not just dumb fetch quests).

 

[Bravocado]

Play Chrono Trigger.

It's 15-20 hours if you do absolutely everything, even less on beloved

Spoiler

New Game +

mode.

 

[Glass Rebel]

I somehow experienced all of those thing in Barkely Shut Up and Jam Gaiden, and that game tops out around 8-9 hours if you fight every battle and search through every nook and cranny. Granted, the cast is pretty small and combat is fairly straightforward when you figure out what each character's most effective attacks are, but overall it felt like a very tight, effective distillation of the JRPG experience into a shorter experience. The best part is that it was very mechanically smart and not just comedic, with enemies visible on the map, limited and avoidable random encounters, Super Mario RPG inspired combat, and a reasonable difficulty curve.

It was basically a coffeebreak roguelike for a different genre, and it was absolutely wonderful.

Barkley and the Zeboyd games fill a certain niche within the genre. They are comparatively short with very brisk pacing but at the expense of depth and satisfying character progression. I like them well enough but I don't think they do the RPG part really well. Panzer Dragoon Saga was mentioned earlier and is probably one of the more prominent <15h JRPGs but it also limited you to only a single character.

I guess it depends on what you look for in a JRPG but 10h severely limits what you can do with the underlying systems and how well they're implemented into the game.

Why would anyone play a JRPG if not for the story? If the story is shit, the game is usually considered shit. Case in point: FFXIII. The gameplay was actually one of the few good things the game had going for it. But it couldn't come close to saving the game.

This is nonsense.

 

[Ranger X]

As I get older I prefer shorter stuff to the overly drawn out garbage of our youth. Give me an OVA or a 13-26 ep series over another Naruto or DBZ. I'd rather have more Journey length games than even 20 hour campaigns.

I can't help but feel like you'd solve so many problems with JRPGs by cutting out 75% of the bullshit. You'd cut down on needless dialogue, convulusion, grinding....

This!!
God damn, I remember the times of FF4,5,6 when JRPGs were having a shiton less filler content and were lasting 25 hours at best. God lord that was perfect.

If they did improve the stories in the meantime it would have been great but all they could do is add mini-games, filler content, more extra stuff, lenghtening stories for the lenght instead of substance, etc. And that's why I don't play JRPGs anymore anyways.

 

[Nags]

Play Ys.

.

 

[jon bones]

Not everything is meant to cater to your interests. There are plenty of genres that I don't care about or have shifted away from my interests and I don't want developers to go out of their way and change them just to appeal to me. It would be unfair to their original target audience and fanbase.

well i don't think every jrpg in the world needs to be short, but i do think tighter jrpg experiences would sell well & be critically appreciated. i have a feeling cosmic star heroine will be just what i'm looking for.

Then do those things but don't complain when you can't fit a certain game into your schedule. That's YOUR choice. My choice is to have enough time to play the games I'm interested in at the expense of other things, but you don't see me complaining about not having a girlfriend or whatever else on the Off Topic section on gaf do you? I made my choice and am happy with it. So should people on the other side.

edit: and to make sure we're clear I'm not talking about a career. That's a need to survive at a comfortable level in life. A girlfriend or going to parties on the weekend isn't though.

i want to have my cake and eat it too

 

[entremet]

I agree with the above.



FF VII-IX were 25-40 hours? DQ VII was 25-40 hours? Grandia 1 was 25-40 hours? I think you get my point.

For the FFs yes. I'm not talking about getting everything. Just completion. Never played the others.

Then do those things but don't complain when you can't fit a certain game into your schedule. That's YOUR choice. My choice is to have enough time to play the games I'm interested in at the expense of other things, but you don't see me complaining about not having a girlfriend or whatever else on the Off Topic section on gaf do you? I made my choice and am happy with it. So should people on the other side.

edit: and to make sure we're clear I'm not talking about a career. That's a need to survive at a comfortable level in life. A girlfriend or going to parties on the weekend isn't though.

You can't be serious.

Gaming is very diverse to accommodate those who don't want crazy time sinks.

Besides I prefer sampling many games than just playing one game for extended periods of time.

 

[TheSeks]

Ys.

WHY's.

A major problem with JRPGs is the encounter rate. If you could get more EXP for less battles or at least cut the battles out, it'd solve most peoples major problems of "time padding" I feel.

Replaying FF8 right now and doing a low level run, I wonder why more JRPGs didn't copy it's level-scaling sort-of system and just fix it with difficulty settings or something. You can grind as much or as little as you want and blow through the game without doing side-quests or do them if you want. Which frankly, is beautiful.

 

[Mechanized]

If you didn't spend hours grinding things, you'd simply have skills and levels handed to you at a pretty quick rate, and it would feel a lot less like a JRPG.

That can be address on a per game basis. Not every game needs a thousand attacks.