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Why are Twilight Princess' dungeons considered the best in the series
- Thread starter shadyspace
- Start date
Hyperactivity
Banned
It's funny, the major argument for best dungeons is a fight between TP and SS, two of the most hated Zelda games
balgajo
Member
Lol. That's the only dungeon I really like in Wind Waker, Though I hated a lot the other co-op dungeon.
And the Zelda considered the best (Ocarina of Time) has the least fun ones. Speaking personally of course.
Dr. Buni
Member
Give them a few more years and a few more Zelda games and they will not be the most hated games in the series anymore.
But yeah, TP and SS had exceptional dungeons. I guess the reason for me putting MM and specially OoT over SS is mainly nostalgia.
balgajo
Member
Agree with you about the robots. IMO Ocarina of Time has the best lore of the series. But talking about storytelling, character's development, romance, I think that Skyward is the best so far. I really wanted to save Zelda with all of my forces.
The hate is mostly irrational. I'm sure most of the people that hate them also love Link's Awakening and that game does a lot of what TP and SS do that people hate, and in a lot of ways it does it worse.
Dr. Buni
Member
I would say SS had a better soundtrack. The Mario Galaxy composer and Koji Kondo did an excellent job, in my opinion of course. Twilight Princess' is awesome too. Midna's Lament <3
decoyplatypus
Member
Temple of Time is an extremely weak dungeon. I would count it just above Hyrule Caslte. It felt rushed and lacking in concept. Great nostalgia but it was hugely disappointing because despite being the Temple of Time its puzzle elements had almost nothing to do with time and felt more like Wind Waker's leftovers. City in the Sky is solid, but I don't recall many noteworthy puzzles. The double clawshots are amazing but the novelty wears thin as traversal becomes plodding.
I think Skyward Sword is a lot better. Solid from the 2nd dungeon straight to the end. Heck, Skyward Sword has mini dungeons better than some of Twilight Princess' dungeons
I agree with your take on Temple of Time, but I think City in the Sky has pretty good puzzles--it's just that they're mainly traversal puzzles. I don't know if you remember when the game came out, but there was a steady stream of people asking how to open the final door leading to the boss room.
Skyward Sword is a pretty clear step down in dungeons for me. I can't remember a single part of the first two dungeons or the Fire Sanctuary. I liked Ancient Cistern and the Sandship, but not as much as the best dungeons in TP. And whatever points SS's dungeon-like map segments add to dungeon quantity, they take more away from quality. I could certainly live with another Zelda of SS-caliber dungeons, but I think OoT and TP set the better standard.
Dion Blaster
Member
I thought Skyward Sword had way cooler dungeons. All of TP's seemed cool at first, but ended not being all that fun to me (the twilight dungeon, yeti mansion, temple of time, etc.).
I thought the dungeons in SS got progressively better and enjoyed being in the dungeons much more than the overworld.
I thought the dungeons in SS got progressively better and enjoyed being in the dungeons much more than the overworld.
Ancient long-lost technology is fine. It's been a motif throughout the series.
What is wrong with trains in a Zelda game? They were well explained. The tracks were chains placed to seal away an ancient evil, and the spirits of good gave the people the trains to use the tracks for transportation. People have been asking for a "steampunk Zelda" for years and they finally get one and people get upset. Steamboats are fine in Zelda, but steam trains aren't? The two technologies were invented and used around the early 1800s in the real world. Hell, Majora's Mask had motorboats.
This is concept art for A Link to the Past:
Gotta wonder what the story is on that one.
MrSaturn99
Member
I certainly did. God, those first two dungeons and the Fire Sanctuary/Skykeep...
TP's dungeons were eadily the best part of the game imo. Lakebed and City in the Sky were just incredible.
RomanceDawn
Member
I thought every Twilight Princess dungeon was lame. There was rarely a time when I would walk into a room and be puzzled. It happened only once in a temple where I had to lower myself from one room to another to reach something on the ceiling. Beyond that they were all way too easy using the same ideas from Zelda games long past.
Skyward Sword genuinely stumped me half the time trying to figure out various ways to attempt certain puzzles and that's what made me really happy beyond aesthetics.
Skyward Sword genuinely stumped me half the time trying to figure out various ways to attempt certain puzzles and that's what made me really happy beyond aesthetics.
I loved TP's dungeons the most. It was such a relief after WW. I genuinely got lost a few times(dat Lakebed Temple and City in the Sky). And I loved how it had pretty much every theme they could cover with the dungeons. You had your fire dungeon, your water dungeon, your forest dungeon, sky, desert, snow, etc. It felt really varied.
It also has the best dungeon music in the series hands down. All of them were catchy and not too ambient, unlike Skyward Sword. I can't even remember any dungeon music from SS besides the first one, but can remember every single one of TP by heart.
It also has the best dungeon music in the series hands down. All of them were catchy and not too ambient, unlike Skyward Sword. I can't even remember any dungeon music from SS besides the first one, but can remember every single one of TP by heart.
GrotesqueBeauty
Banned
Are they? There are some really good ones (Arbiter's Grounds, City in the Sky), but on the whole they were way too linear imo. One key at a time really limits the potential for more open ended design. I think people latched onto them because they were arguably the best part of an otherwise tepid Zelda experience though. An argument can be made for the quality of the dungeons, but it's a bit harder to get enthusiastic about bad pacing, a barren overworld, and a handful of weak side quests.
As far as 3D Zelda games go, I think OoT had a far superior selection of dungeons. TP did best WW in this regard though.
As far as 3D Zelda games go, I think OoT had a far superior selection of dungeons. TP did best WW in this regard though.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Temple of Time is an extremely weak dungeon. I would count it just above Hyrule Caslte. It felt rushed and lacking in concept. Great nostalgia but it was hugely disappointing because despite being the Temple of Time its puzzle elements had almost nothing to do with time and felt more like Wind Waker's leftovers. City in the Sky is solid, but I don't recall many noteworthy puzzles. The double clawshots are amazing but the novelty wears thin as traversal becomes plodding.
I think Skyward Sword is a lot better. Solid from the 2nd dungeon straight to the end. Heck, Skyward Sword has mini dungeons better than some of Twilight Princess' dungeons
Came to post this. Temple of Time was not only dull in appearance, but there were no challenging puzzles, nothing interesting in its layout and nothing that lived up to the awesomeness of the temple's entrance being in such an iconic place. And the dominion rod had no use outside of that dungeon, similar to the spinner, but worse.
Speaking of the spinner, Arbiter's Grounds was pretty fun and using the spinner in that boss room was great. It should've functioned like that everywhere; it could've been the best Zelda item ever. And it spawned this vid
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
TP has fantastic dungeons, because they each have intuitive mechanics that govern each dungeon that make them feel extremely unique, going off base a bit here but it's especially rewarding when you're asked to apply these mechanics to the fullest especially in boss fights. TP also has some of the best (and worst) bosses in the series.
In fact I honestly believe the boss of the Goron Mines to be one of the most fantastically designed boss fights in the whole series. It isn't particularly hard or anything but it's just incredible how intuitive it is given its complexity.
There are enemies in the dungeon that have glowing red eyes and must be shot in the eye to be killed. So naturally when you see the boss has a glowing red eye you think to shoot that spot.
Then you notice he runs around a lot, you may not understand the meaning of this right away but as soon as you notice that he has chains exactly like the ones you pulled in the dungeon coupled with a magnetic ground ON TOP of the fact that he runs around aimlessly while blind you start getting star wars episode 5 AT-AT flash backs and you quickly deduce what you must do.
The boss fight is so effective and wonderful to over come because it doesn't explain anything to you directly. Instead it just reuses mechanics you already interacted with and basically says "alright use what you learned!"
That's the culmination of what a boss fight should be, an application of the lessons learned getting there, a true final test.
In fact I honestly believe the boss of the Goron Mines to be one of the most fantastically designed boss fights in the whole series. It isn't particularly hard or anything but it's just incredible how intuitive it is given its complexity.
There are enemies in the dungeon that have glowing red eyes and must be shot in the eye to be killed. So naturally when you see the boss has a glowing red eye you think to shoot that spot.
Then you notice he runs around a lot, you may not understand the meaning of this right away but as soon as you notice that he has chains exactly like the ones you pulled in the dungeon coupled with a magnetic ground ON TOP of the fact that he runs around aimlessly while blind you start getting star wars episode 5 AT-AT flash backs and you quickly deduce what you must do.
The boss fight is so effective and wonderful to over come because it doesn't explain anything to you directly. Instead it just reuses mechanics you already interacted with and basically says "alright use what you learned!"
That's the culmination of what a boss fight should be, an application of the lessons learned getting there, a true final test.
balgajo
Member
You pointed something that I wasn't aware. Most of dungeons after Ocarina was one key at a time. Maybe that's why I got stuck to many times in Ocarina. They could comeback with less linear dungeons. I don't remember a moment that I got stuck in the last fifteen years.
Nightstick11
Banned
They were amazing and consistent.
GrotesqueBeauty
Banned
I thought the Temple of Time and Palace of Twilight were pretty weak compared with the others, and Hyrule Castle is a total boner killer. Terrible excuse for a final dungeon imo.
Doctor Decimate
Member
Skyward Sword has the better dungeons, though Arbiter's Grounds, Snowpeak Ruins, and City in the Sky are some of the best of the series. the rest are ok, though the final two are WAAAY too short and the dungeons don't really hit their stride until you start manipulating the water flow in Lakebed Temple. Goron Mines had potential, but just because you can walk on ceilings with the iron boots doesn't change that you're still wearing the fucking iron boots. Temple of Time's puzzles just felt underwhelming, especially since it's sandwiched in between two far superior dungeons.
Stone tower temples fairies...Never again.
Found them all and barely had 2 minutes before the moon crashed on the last day lol.
Weak final dungeons is a 3D Zelda tradition. Skyward Sword probably has the best one, for all that's worth.
the final dungeon of skyward sword was the best one from the game and one of the best in 3d zelda. it's super awesome, and a little out of place in that game for how good it is.
Dr. Buni
Member
How so? Most dungeons in SS were amazing. Majora's Mask had a great last dungeon, btw.
Doctor Decimate
Member
......except just about everything that's wrong with Skyward Sword is not in the dungeons, which were fantastic almost across the board.
decoyplatypus
Member
What are you calling the final dungeon--Stone Tower or the Moon?
I agree pretty strongly with Branduil that Sky Temple is the best of a bad lot of final dungeons in the 3D games. Unless we count Stone Tower.
Spieler Eins
Member
Sliding puzzles are the worst thing ever, so making a dungeon out of it wasn't exactly great. Nope. Recycling content at the end of a game is also annoying. What a disappointment that was.
TP final dungeon was good enough. I liked how the pacing of the music changed.
TP final dungeon was good enough. I liked how the pacing of the music changed.
Dr. Buni
Member
I was referring to the Stone Tower. Does the Moon even count as an actual dungeon?
I don't like sliding puzzles, but you didn't have to make a picture so it wasn't bad. All you had to do was move the rooms so the doors lined up with the room you were in and it had multiple correct solutions. It was extremely clever.
Otakumegane
Member
TP easily had the best bosses though.
(Expect Zant)
(Expect Zant)
Spieler Eins
Member
Considering that other games already did that, not really.
I greatly preferred SS's dungeons to TP's dungeons. I liked Arbiter's Grounds, though.
I liked TP, it was just largely unmemorable for some reason. Both were great and a far better direction than TWW, however. (I think TP did lack the charm of TWW, however.)
SS is my second favorite Zelda after OOT. I know that's a really unpopular opinion, but one day I hope people will come around to it. Quite frankly, I don't think there's been a really bad game in the series, and the only game that was disappointing was Phantom Hourglass. I think they made up for it with Spirit Tracks.
I liked TP, it was just largely unmemorable for some reason. Both were great and a far better direction than TWW, however. (I think TP did lack the charm of TWW, however.)
SS is my second favorite Zelda after OOT. I know that's a really unpopular opinion, but one day I hope people will come around to it. Quite frankly, I don't think there's been a really bad game in the series, and the only game that was disappointing was Phantom Hourglass. I think they made up for it with Spirit Tracks.
Lord Azrael
Member
Twilight Princess really does have the best dungeons. Snowpeak Ruins is the best dungeon in the entire series. It was integrated amazingly into the world and all of its elements were given great context.
Although, Arbiter's Grounds is highly overrated. One of the more simplistic dungeons in the game, puzzles are too easy and you get the spinner way too late. And I guess while I'm on the overall topic of overrated dungeons, Ancient Cistern too. Actually Skyward Sword's dungeons in general were overly simplistic. They focused too much on visual spectacle, while the rooms were all vast and empty.
I still like Skyward Sword better overall though, for all the other stuff.
Although, Arbiter's Grounds is highly overrated. One of the more simplistic dungeons in the game, puzzles are too easy and you get the spinner way too late. And I guess while I'm on the overall topic of overrated dungeons, Ancient Cistern too. Actually Skyward Sword's dungeons in general were overly simplistic. They focused too much on visual spectacle, while the rooms were all vast and empty.
I still like Skyward Sword better overall though, for all the other stuff.
Elfforkusu
Member
I feel like TP's dungeons excelled not just for clever gameplay mechanics, but for how good they were at world building.
Arbiter's Grounds, Snowpeak, City in the Sky weren't just fun set pieces with clever dungeon design. They were real places. City in the Sky in particular defined more backstory than most games do just by existing.
Couple that with the unique traversal options (spinner? double clawshot???) that blew the doors open on getting from A -> B, and they're just a cut above. To invoke Ocarina of Time, the only dungeon in that game that matches up in the same respect is the Forest Temple. Others are cool in their own way (the Spirit Temple is pretty great), but it's that world building aspect that pushes it over the edge.
If I had to describe SS's dungeon design in one word, that word would probably be "forgettable". They weren't bad, they just were... there. The time shifting mechanic in the Sandship was cool, and the hellscape at the bottom of Ancient Cistern was awesome. But apart from the last dungeon, nothing really stuck with me.
Arbiter's Grounds, Snowpeak, City in the Sky weren't just fun set pieces with clever dungeon design. They were real places. City in the Sky in particular defined more backstory than most games do just by existing.
Couple that with the unique traversal options (spinner? double clawshot???) that blew the doors open on getting from A -> B, and they're just a cut above. To invoke Ocarina of Time, the only dungeon in that game that matches up in the same respect is the Forest Temple. Others are cool in their own way (the Spirit Temple is pretty great), but it's that world building aspect that pushes it over the edge.
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If I had to describe SS's dungeon design in one word, that word would probably be "forgettable". They weren't bad, they just were... there. The time shifting mechanic in the Sandship was cool, and the hellscape at the bottom of Ancient Cistern was awesome. But apart from the last dungeon, nothing really stuck with me.
decoyplatypus
Member
I'm not sure whether people count it as a dungeon. It certainly has (optional) content to match the mini-dungeons in OoT or the boss gauntlet in WW. And it seems strange to call Stone Tower the final dungeon when it occupies a role parallel to the Spirit Temple/Turtle Rock/City in the Sky/et al.
The dungeons were easily the best part of the game. Why? They were just well designed. I think Aonuma's current team is amazing at dungeon design... and not much else. Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword are proof of that.
Snowpeak Ruins is one of the best Zelda dungeons of all time. Arbiter's Grounds and City in the Sky are right up there too.
Snowpeak Ruins is one of the best Zelda dungeons of all time. Arbiter's Grounds and City in the Sky are right up there too.
LeadenStride
Member
I didn't really enjoy them. The puzzles were not challenging at all and the progression was way too linear. It was go into a room, solve an easy puzzle to get a small key, use it to open the door to the next room and repeat too often. The dungeon in the desert for example, while looking interesting, is the worst in the series in my opinion.
Wrong. You can design your dungeons to incorporate more items at once and not just have the item be useful for one dungeon before not ever using it again. I gave examples of this. Even OoT was better at making items more useful outside the respective dungeon you found them in.
The dominion rod is a perfect example of how good TP was at making items feel like glorified keys for their respective boss rooms to their respective dungeons, instead of long term tools in your arsenal for solving the games challenges.
Fudgepuppy
Banned
I actually enjoyed the dungeons in SS, a lot.
They felt very old-school and pretty challenging at time.
They felt very old-school and pretty challenging at time.