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Why arent handhelds "counted" in the industry?
- Thread starter Kimawolf
- Start date
When I want to game, I sit down and put all of my attention into gaming. Headphones, big screen, lights off, and so on.
I get the idea of using handhelds while on public transportation or at school, but--some of us don't use public transportation. Some of us ride bicycles. Some of us are done with school.
I don't have a time or a place to use handhelds--and neither do the majority of gamers (though many gamers will buy handhelds and then use them at home just because of the content of the games, or on the toilet, or whatever).
For most of us, there aren't enough opportunities to warrant having a handheld--and that is why handhelds aren't an industry focus (except for Nintendo, whose inexpensive and quality handheld products appeal to children and their caretakers).
There's also the issue of handhelds being restrictive when it comes to disabled and older gamers. Handhelds are also a bigger target of shovelware because of their last-gen makeups.
I get the idea of using handhelds while on public transportation or at school, but--some of us don't use public transportation. Some of us ride bicycles. Some of us are done with school.
I don't have a time or a place to use handhelds--and neither do the majority of gamers (though many gamers will buy handhelds and then use them at home just because of the content of the games, or on the toilet, or whatever).
For most of us, there aren't enough opportunities to warrant having a handheld--and that is why handhelds aren't an industry focus (except for Nintendo, whose inexpensive and quality handheld products appeal to children and their caretakers).
There's also the issue of handhelds being restrictive when it comes to disabled and older gamers. Handhelds are also a bigger target of shovelware because of their last-gen makeups.
It's only a curiosity because they've failed at making Vita relevant in the market.
molnizzle
Member
I love handhelds for playing games in bed, but that's really their only valid use for me. I get about 30-45 minutes of gaming in every night before bed. I've had some fun experiences... but handhelds will never compare to the "full" games I play on the TV. I mean, the screens are just so small. How could something played on a stupid little screen like that be your GOTY? =P
SaintMadeOfPlaster
Member
This is one of the more ignorant things I've read on this forum.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Curious how many people championing the idea that handhelds "should count" because Nintendo dominates in that field would then turn around and dismiss mobile and tablet gaming.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
SaintMadeOfPlaster
Member
I dismiss mobile and tablet gaming because they have no buttons and I've yet to see a MUST HAVE game on the platform(s), not because they're Nintendo's competition in the handheld space.
Just like graphics and resolution matter a ton when you're talking about PS4 vs XB1 vs WiiU or anything else, but suddenly don't matter at all when PC gets brought into the conversation.
Whatever you spent your money on is the thing that matters.
Ninja Scooter
Member
And people dismiss handheld gaming for arbitrary reasons too. Hence, this thread. But if you are going to complain about being all inclusive, then you can't just draw the line at things you personally like.
Petrae
Member
I used to be into dedicated handhelds a lot more before smartphones & tablets eliminated my perceived need for them by providing gaming on the go without having to carry an extra device. It's a matter of that convenience and a matter of cost savings (in that mobile games are cheaper as compared to $30 handheld games plus I save money by not buying new hardware).
I don't think I'm alone in this regard, and it may explain why some tend to look less favorably on handheld games. There's still a market-- mostly made of core consumers and Nintendo fans-- and it's still possible for great games to appear on handhelds, even if fewer people wind up playing them.
I don't think I'm alone in this regard, and it may explain why some tend to look less favorably on handheld games. There's still a market-- mostly made of core consumers and Nintendo fans-- and it's still possible for great games to appear on handhelds, even if fewer people wind up playing them.
Karsticles
Member
Eww, gameplay?!
Or wherever you're most comfortable playing anyway.
Though to me the problems lie more with the business models and sometimes what kinds of games they TRY to put up there: Free to play that's heavily dependent on monetization to get anywhere is bullshit regardless of being on mobile, handheld, or console, and the Deus Ex game seems like one of the better mobile games but it's not really the best place to control a first person shooter-type of game. Hardware wise it's absolutely valid, though I find it kind of frustrating how quickly obsolete the stuff gets so that ends up being the third reason I'm not in favor of it. Playing games on FLIPPHONES though, you're kidding if you want to treat that as a serious gaming platform, especially outside of Japan where at least they had relatively advanced hardware and software.
obijkenobi
Member
I dunno. I played my DS more than I played my PS3 and Wii last generation
SaintMadeOfPlaster
Member
The thing is, handheld console gaming is actually doing interesting things and making games that can be considered game of the year, like FE or ALBW...The most "forward" thinking and creative thing mobile gaming has brought us is the abused Free-to-Play model.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Again, all your own personal preferences and opinions. People could come up with their own personal reasons for dismissing handheld gaming as a whole. Don't see the difference.
A better point than the buttons is the games overall. I dismiss the WiiU for the most part as well right now, about as much as I dismiss mobile gaming. And it has nothing to do with who is whose competition or who has buttons (for the most part);
It has everything to do with the quality of the game selection available. The best games I have played on mobile to date would probably be TWD, P&D, Super Hexagon, Game Dev Story and S&S. And thats over the course of YEAAAAAAAAAAAARS. It pales in comparison to the games I have enjoyed on even the 3DS to date, let alone console or PC gaming.
When they (Both the WiiU and mobile gaming as a whole) manage to bridge that gap, they will get more of my attention. Until then, they, and to a slightly lesser degree handheld gaming don't count much in comparison to consoles and PC.
Catchpenny
Member
Except there's nothing arbitrary about disliking the lack of sticks and buttons. A number of genres are gimped, if not rendered nigh unplayable, by their absence. I play games on my phone, but almost all of them are some combination of turn-based, puzzle games, 2D or on-rails.
Coffee Dog
Banned
-decreased western presence
-worse tech
-lack of big AAA games for the most part outside of nintendo
those combine to reduce the "hype" of handhelds, and "hype" is what wins GOTY.
-worse tech
-lack of big AAA games for the most part outside of nintendo
those combine to reduce the "hype" of handhelds, and "hype" is what wins GOTY.
GillianSeed79
Member
I think they still count, just not in the west now. You have increased competition from other mobile platforms and other game platforms in general. At least in the U.S., a lot of the benefits of portables are completely mitigated by just how different the U.S. is population density-wise than, say, Japan. I've owned plenty of portables, but I've never actually played them outside of my home unless it was a long car ride once a year. Sure there are plenty of people that live in metro areas that have commutes on trains or buses and stuff, but a lot of Americans have to drive everywhere.
I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that games are ubiquitous today. You play games on consoles, your PC, flash games, iPhones, Android devices, iPads, etc.
It's not like in the Gameboy days where your choices were to play games on a console or a portable (and PC if you had one).
Portables also used to skew younger. Parents could buy their kids Gameboy Advances or the Nintendo DS and not have to worry about buying an expensive console and the games were cheaper.
Today, my nephews spend more time playing 99 cent games on their dad's iPhone or games they have on their tablets than any traditional portable system. It's not really a value proposition either for parents when their kids can have just as much fun playing a 99 cent game instead of a $30-$40 portable game.
Portables today are enthusiast devices IMO. They have great, amazing games, but they cost too much for the average consumer who likely owns an iOS device or an Android device and the games are too expensive for a mass market audience.
I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that games are ubiquitous today. You play games on consoles, your PC, flash games, iPhones, Android devices, iPads, etc.
It's not like in the Gameboy days where your choices were to play games on a console or a portable (and PC if you had one).
Portables also used to skew younger. Parents could buy their kids Gameboy Advances or the Nintendo DS and not have to worry about buying an expensive console and the games were cheaper.
Today, my nephews spend more time playing 99 cent games on their dad's iPhone or games they have on their tablets than any traditional portable system. It's not really a value proposition either for parents when their kids can have just as much fun playing a 99 cent game instead of a $30-$40 portable game.
Portables today are enthusiast devices IMO. They have great, amazing games, but they cost too much for the average consumer who likely owns an iOS device or an Android device and the games are too expensive for a mass market audience.
This is where I stopped reading, because this isn't true anymore. At all.
"A minority of video game fans, and which is dwindling every day", yes. "People", no.
This deserves an answer. Handhelds in total sell millions of units and earn billions of dollars in revenue.
What else needs to happen?
Meanwhile, the attempt to tie the question in with a Nintendo persecution narrative is pretty inaccurate. At least, that isn't my rationale.
If you were to make me choose playing Ride to Hell Retribution or Fire Emblem 3DS, I would choose the former without hesitation. This is not a joke, and I say this as someone who acknowledges RtH as a bad game, and as someone who played through Fire Emblem POR on Gamecube to completion and enjoyed doing so.
I can't enjoy playing handheld games. I just can't. Sorry.
ps: I'm rather sure that Spring-Loaded's post was meant in jest. Mine, however, isn't, so feel free to belittle me.
Coffee Dog
Banned
I don't understand how a reasonable, rational person could ever come to this conclusion. I am not criticizing your taste, as much as I am saying that you have a very, very strange set of opinions.
I dunno.. I'm trying to think back but I cannot clearly recall.
From a developing standpoint, did Western developers EVER really take to handheld development? I mean even back in the Gameboy days, and the Game Gear, Wonderswan days. It certainly feels like they were never all that big on handhelds even before smartphones, and even during the times where the handhelds themselves were cleaning house (DS did like 150m and the GBA and GB weren't slouches either).
I remember seeing a photo from Ready At Dawn after they shipped that amazing GOW game for PSP last gen, packing up their PSP dev kits (IIRC) and stating they were sort of moving 'up' to making a PS3 game. I may be remembering that wrong, but it certainly struck me as odd. Handhelds may have an image problem in the West where they are seen as the minor leagues as opposed to consoles where supposedly the 'real' magic happens.
Hell, I am. I won't ever get that point of view. I have seen it on GAF before too, from other posters laid bare. Would willingly pass on a superior game because of lesser hardware or some other reason. If theres a physical issue with you playing a handheld that is different. But if there isn't I just dont know what to say.
If you don't bother with this hobby specifically for the Games, then just what in the hell is it that you are doing here.
Why exactly? The only thing that would be understandable to me is the form factor of a handheld and really nothing else.
The best games of popular handhelds are usually of similar quality to the best games of a console back say, a gen or two before that handheld was released but with more modern features (usually smaller/more basic versions of features that have been implemented into present console games).
It's to the point in which it's a bit hypocritical to say you hate games on handheld but yet love going back to older consoles.
You shake babies? >.>
I agree with the sentiment though. Playing a handheld at home is like reading a book on a kindle instead of a computer. It's a lot more personal.
Chinpoko_Master
Member
I've always seen handhelds as lesser gaming platforms. Worse controls, worse visual and audio experience, and a lot of the games are either dumbed down from consoles or are geared towards playing in short bursts which doesn't really vibe with me. The reason I don't play games on handhelds anymore is basically the same reason I don't watch movies on my phone. I don't want my experience to be dumbed down.
Spring-Loaded
Member
My god, it's such a relief to see someone else with sense on this forum. My post was most certainly not made in jest, I assure you.
Just by being played using a console, a game becomes better than that same game being played on a portable device, ignoring all other variables.
I've said more before, so please search my posts if you want a more verbose explanation. I truly am not trying to smear shit in this thread, so I'll just try to say it simply as this - I can't buy into handheld games as being legitimate. I can't take them seriously. I can't suspend my disbelief in playing them in the same way that I can something on a console or a PC; I can't eliminate the distraction in my head, the nagging voice telling me "you are just pissing your free time away" when I hold a handheld device in my hands and play something on it.
Also, the proprietary medium bothers me too. I would have no issue with the Vita if it was simply a standard 720p screen, and every Vita game could be chosen to be played on a PS3 if the player wanted to do so. I'd never buy a Vita, of course, but at least I wouldn't support a Vita-only market in this scenario because then they wouldn't be Vita-exclusive games.
---
Regardless. I think the more important point to discuss out of this thread is at what exact point does handhelds need to be so that the original question doesn't need to be asked. I think we're already at that point, and I think it's fair to say that a majority of people who have posted in this thread feel the same way.
Lumpy Onion
Member
This post is priceless.
Haha, really?
So do you just dump your console when the gen is over?
As I said in my previous post, many of the best handheld games are pretty much the same in format/quality of the best games of previous consoles.
They have come a long way from the Tiger Electronic/original Game Boy days.
No, not at all. I just started playing La Pucelle for the first time a few days ago.
And in my opinion, those same handheld games would be even better by default if they were not on handhelds.
And it is my assumption of this thesis which is yet another factor which prevents me from taking them seriously.
Your completely incorrect assumption. There's a reason games like Animal Crossing perform so much better on handhelds than on consoles.
I don't get this at all.
People say how previous games on older consoles were more "smart" and "in depth" and how big name AAA games have "dumbed down console gaming".
Portable consoles have TONS of throwbacks to those smart(er) console games of the past but because they are on a portable they are automatically dumbed down?
I'm not even a big portable gamer but the shortsightedness is a bit mind-blowing to me.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
I usually just make distinctions between dedicated gaming systems and not.
The truth is we're seeing a huge contraction of the dedicated gaming market just based off of Vita bombing and 3DS piddling along alone. Then you factor in WiiU and the entire market looks in freefall.
It worries me. I like a controller with my gaming. And there's always going to be a lack of support for them in the mobile arena to keep the simplicity of the device. Meaning my favored way to game is becoming increasingly irrelevant. Scary.
The truth is we're seeing a huge contraction of the dedicated gaming market just based off of Vita bombing and 3DS piddling along alone. Then you factor in WiiU and the entire market looks in freefall.
It worries me. I like a controller with my gaming. And there's always going to be a lack of support for them in the mobile arena to keep the simplicity of the device. Meaning my favored way to game is becoming increasingly irrelevant. Scary.
A lot of them wouldn't exist in hd in the first place due to the budget constraints. And there's plenty of people who like a game more simply because it is portable.
And those old console games would more than likely be even better if they were made on newer consoles.
I don't get your point at all.
molnizzle
Member
I don't really like most Japanese games these days either so that's definitely a major part of it. Anime shit is just creepy and weird to me.
The funny thing is that my favorite bedtime handheld game last year was Persona 4 Golden. Doesn't get much more Japanese/anime than that. I bought it on sale expecting to hate it... and to be honest I really don't understand why I don't. It's fucking excellent. Quite the anomaly, that one.
The funny thing is that my favorite bedtime handheld game last year was Persona 4 Golden. Doesn't get much more Japanese/anime than that. I bought it on sale expecting to hate it... and to be honest I really don't understand why I don't. It's fucking excellent. Quite the anomaly, that one.
Chinpoko_Master
Member
Handheld games aren't inherently dumbed down in terms of gameplay, but portable versions of console games usually are. That's what I meant.
terrisus
Member
Man, I wish I could have the type of time and and not-being-botheredness that many people seem to have for games. While my wife enjoys games as well - we play together often, and she plays on her own a good deal as well - there is no chance in the world that sort of situation would ever happen for me. If I tried to, she would assume I had some free time, and either want to spend it with me, or have stuff for me to do. And, frankly, usually I don't have that kind of free time anyway - and haven't for a good dozen years or so now.
Handhelds fit very well into my life, since I can keep it sitting next to me, pick it up when I have some time, and when I need to, pause it and put it back down. That isn't saying I want shallow and meaningless games - I can do that kind of thing with handheld versions of Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy 6, Mother 3, Dragon Quest 9, Link Between Worlds, or many of the other great handheld games out there. They're just so much more conducive to me being able to play them - since, there's no chance in the world that the situation described in the quoted post above would be able to last more than a few minutes for me.
Oh well.
Of course. This is why I'd accept another piece of hardware like the TurboExpress again.
One developer makes one game that one publisher stocks on one store shelf. You and I buy the same game. I never play it on a handheld. You never play it on a console. We're both happy and everyone earns their allotment off of both of our purchases. Everyone wins.
Think of my dismissal of handhelds along the same lines as a "you must be this tall to ride" line at an amusement park ride.
I'm not nearly as concerned with games utilizing the most cutting-edge and costliest technology as I am their eschewing technology which is objectively inferior at its time of creation.
Consoles and up is my rule. Handhelds just aren't worth my time. I only have so much free time in my day and money in my wallet, and I have more than enough games to play where I don't lament the dismissal.
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
Yeah, that does have some truth to it.
Handheld games can have cinematic games, but they are not well suited to the portable console. Nothing is worst than have a 30 minute unskippable cutscene/long-winded dialog when you just want to pick up a game and play it for short bursts.
With that said, console-style games do have a home on portable consoles, they just need to change the game to accommodate for the change in play styles.
JordanN
Banned
Trying to draw conclusions from Wii U is like saying Dreamcast is proof the industry is going to die.
There are 3 major manufacturers. Even if the industry contracts I don't think it's wise to use the company who is bringing about their own downfall, rather than the industry doing it for them.
This goes for all the other people too who insist on spreading this fear.
Holy Order Sol
Member
It's not like no one's talking about them here. People write articles about how they're the future and handhelds are doomed and shit. What else do you want?
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