Support NeoGAF

[UncleSporky]

CRTs essentially provided free antialiasing to older 3D systems by making everything just a little bit blurry.

PS2/Cube/Wii look much better on them than they do on any modern TV.

 

[Astral/H3X]

Here's a better question: Why are we not gaming on SED TVs?

Those that know will start crying now.

 

[purdobol]

In terms of image quality, low input lag and ability to change resolutions. Yes they were perfect for gaming. On the downside they were bulky, consumed lots of power and they have problems with geometry (it was hard to produce flat panels, but they existed).

The biggest reason why they are not in use today is cost and difficulty to produce big screens. I think the biggest CRT TV had 42" and the price for was huge.

Still if I had a chance to buy Sony FW 900 today in a perfect condition I wouldn't hesitate.
This thing had amazing picture quality with resolution up to 2304x1440 and aspect ratio 16:10 (which I prefer instead of 16:9).

 

[Caronte]

Form over function. A flat screen seems better even if it isn't, so people buy those.

 

[SlaughterX]

They're big as fuck, bruh. They cost more money to ship, they take up more space in stores, and they probably cost more to make.

 

[Dragon Puncher]

As someone who has been working in a warehouse in the early 2000's and moved alot of 30-40" CRT around by hand (sometimes on top of a ladder), I thank the lords that they got pushed out by Plasma and LCD. I still have one for rhythm games, but overall they just weren't practical or suited for anyone in a small space.

 

[d00d3n]

Why do CRT monitors not have issues with aliasing? (I wasn't aware that they did not)

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

...or, at least, why aren't CRT gaming monitors being manufactured for a certain market segment?

It's been years since I've used a high quality CRT, and because I'm only 21 years old, I don't really remember what they were like. However, the more I learn about the types of screen technologies currently in use today, the more CRTs seem like the perfect type of screen, at least for gaming.

CRTs:
-Had virtually no input lag, at all.
-Maintained color accuracy at different viewing angles.
-Didn't have issues with screen-tearing/vsync.
-Didn't have issues with aliasing.

Furthermore, while most CRTs were standard definition, HD CRT's did exist. Most CRT monitors were at least 1024x768 (low by today's standards, but a lot higher than 480i!), and I've read that some were as high as 1080p.

The only downside, as far as I can tell, is that CRT's are large and heavy. While this could definitely be a problem for some people, I'd imagine that a lot of dedicated gamers wouldn't mind the extra space.

Can anyone explain why CRTs have fallen almost completely out of use? I've been having trouble finding information on this. Thanks!

they're really fucking heavy

 

[Smokey]

Because they were massive

And done.

 

[Robaperas]

Find yourself a working FW900, that thing was a beast.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00004YNSR/?tag=neogaf0e-20

22.5-inch viewable screen
2,304 x 1,440 maximum resolution

170 Watt seems a "bit" too much though.

 

[vazel]

CRTs still had issues with tearing when vsync was disabled and they also still had aliasing issues(you can't just get free MSAA no matter the display).

I do miss CRTs, I regularly used them up until 2010. Motion resolution has gotten pretty good on LCDs with 120/144Hz displays especially when you enable lightboost but I still really despise the background lighting issues LCDs have.

 

[Vitacat]

I owned a 36 inch Sony WEGA.

HOLY CRAP the screen was godly. But the TV was HUGE and probably weighed as much as I do. But OMG the screen was brilliant for games. I still regret selling it 5 years ago for next to nothing, and the people who bought it got a steal.

As for why they aren't made anymore -- vast majority of people don't want CRT's. And if I'm being honest, I'm not sure I want that huge bulky thing now, but I do sometimes miss it.

Why do CRT monitors not have issues with aliasing? (I wasn't aware that they did not)

Soft, round "pixels." In fact there weren't really "pixels" per se with a CRT. Just a dot mask and the cathode ray beaming back and forth. One thing that really annoys me about "retro style" games these days with "8 bit pixels" and such is that the games back then did NOT look nearly as blocky or stair-steppy as that. And that was because of the CRT's.

 

[Xplatformer]

Because a thin, 27" 1080p/60hz monitor is good enough. Literally good enough for the next 5 years unless I plan on hooking my PC up to my TV.

 

[WillyFive]

Too big, too heavy. Just like with old CRT TV's, they are the kind of thing that if you saw being given away, one wouldn't even have it for free.

Why do CRT monitors not have issues with aliasing? (I wasn't aware that they did not)

Resolutions lower than the max scale brilliantly well, even if they are pretty low, compared to a flat screen.

For example, if you had a CRT that can do 1600x1200 and decided to play a game at a much, much lower resolution of 1024 × 768; you would barely notice any aliasing. Even at 800 x 600, it would simply look a bit less sharp. Even low-res text would look crisp. Try the same thing on an equivalent LCD and you'd see nothing but squares (and blurry squares too because it would be non-native).

 

[UncleSporky]

Why do CRT monitors not have issues with aliasing? (I wasn't aware that they did not)

Compare the jaggy effect from the left image to the right.

Sort of gives the illusion of a denser set of pixels...colors bleed into each other a bit. A natural AA effect.

Look especially at the blocky colors on his chest piece, how they blend together instead.

 

[n0razi]

Resolutions lower than the max scale brilliantly well, even if they are pretty low, compared to a flat screen.

For example, if you had a CRT that can do 1600x1200 and decided to play a game at a much, much lower resolution of 1024 × 768; you would barely notice any aliasing. Even at 800 x 600, it would simply look a bit less sharp. Even low-res text would look crisp. Try the same thing on an equivalent LCD and you'd see nothing but squares (and blurry squares too because it would be non-native).

Its because CRTs do not have a native resolution. On an LCD, its interpolating anything that not native/max resolution. On a CRT it simply "draws" whatever resolution its given since its analog.

 

[Pancakes R Us]

I still keep a CRT for older rhythm games.
Other than that, there's a considerable convenience, cost, and technology factor that goes into the phasing out of CRTs.

I mean, I can move a 40+" HDTV by myself.
I'd be in a hospital if they were CRT.

Unless you're a pro wrestler or a bench press 600+lbs without batting an eyelid, I don't think you'd get to lift it, so no need to call an ambulance ;-)

 

[Deleted member 1235]

its like asking why isnt flac audio the norm? the mass market isnt interested in large + expensive

 

[magnumpy]

I think 55" 65" and up would just be plain impossible for CRT screens

those screen sizes are commonplace these days

something had to come along and replace that old decrepit technology. there was rear projection screens which gained favor for a while, but ultimately those lost favor vs. flat screens.

 

[Patrick S.]

I had a couple of CRT monitors that would give me huge headaches and make my eyes burn like hell.

 

[SneakyStephan]

And done.

Tell us about that big tower case you got to put your sli titans in smokey.
Or why you need the surface area of your desk that is BEHIND your monitor?

Size (depth) might be a factor for large tvs (taking up living room floor space) but anyone pretending it's a factor on a desk with a monitor sized crt is just being obtuse.

170 Watt seems a "bit" too much though.

Still less than plasma tvs, and I know a bunch of gaffers love their kuro plasmas dearly and would not give them up for anything.

its like asking why isnt flac audio the norm? the mass market isnt interested in large + expensive

Sigh
Got any more disingenuous comparisons or are we done now?

 

[vazel]

Compare the jaggy effect from the left image to the right.

Sort of gives the illusion of a denser set of pixels...colors bleed into each other a bit. A natural AA effect.

Look especially at the blocky colors on his chest piece, how they blend together instead.

It should be noted that PC CRTs were of much higher quality than TV CRTs.

TV CRTs were bigger that PC CRTs and had to contend with focus/convergence/geometry issues the closer you got to the edges of the screen. Also TV CRTs were often connected on lower quality video connections like composite or even rf cables.

 

[jerry1594]

Cuz they are fucking huge lol. I still play most of my stuff on a CRT tv though.
I would like a nice PVM but don't have the resources to get one and mess around with it.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

They use a lot more power, they make noise, they are blurry, heavy, and the screens were not flat. Screen tearing was possible.

 

[IvorB]

CRTs belong in the past now. Let them rest in peace.

 

[Horsemama1956]

I think you're just misinformed about CRTs, TBH. Sure, a bit of it was the bulk, for sure. But a lot of the positives you mentioned are just false.



-They were good for input lag, but so is any decent monitor nowadays.
-So do decent monitors, especially IPS displays.
-Yes, they did. The display makes no difference re: screen tearing. That's the fault of the input.
-Same thing here. If they seemed to not have as bad aliasing, it's because the resolution and quality of the entire image was so low.



I will gladly put my IPS display's colour against your CRT, any day of the week. And my display was $100 used.

And saying the image quality is better on a CRT because it's essentially worse (ie fuzzier) and therefore "hides the faults" is also weird to me. You're just making the entire screen look worse, so that the imperfections are hidden by... low quality. =/

CRTs weren't fuzzy, they were slightly softer, like Plasma. You've only used cheapo crap apparently.

 

[wanderjahr]

Because it's 2015 and nobody makes them commercially.

 

[Huggers]

I game on a Sony BVM CRT broadcast monitor. The picture through rgb start is insane. Could never game with my old systems any other way now

 

[magnumpy]

Tell us about that big tower case you got to put your sli titans in smokey.
Or why you need the surface area of your desk that is BEHIND your monitor?

Size (depth) might be a factor for large tvs (taking up living room floor space) but anyone pretending it's a factor on a desk with a monitor sized crt is just being obtuse.

tell me more

I have a 40" LCD screen as this computers monitor. yes it's on a desk.

also a 55" LCD screen for my other computers monitor.

also a LCD TV which is mounted on my living room wall.

none of them occupy any floor space.

am I being obtuse?

 

[Ivan]

Here's a better question: Why are we not gaming on SED TVs?

Those that know will start crying now.

 

[JRW]

I sure do miss my GDM-FW900 CRT, Amazing PQ, great black levels, color accuracy and of course ability to maintain resolution during motion. but I finally accepted the fact they aren't made anymore I won't bother with a used one, CRT's dont generally age very gracefully and require calibration over time (If you wan't to keep the PQ looking good).

 

[nkarafo]

I still play PC games and emulators on my CRT PC monitor. And i still haven't seen an LCD monitor that has a better moving image.

No blurring, no ghosting, no lag, blacks are blacks at every viewing angle, etc.

 

[Leafhopper]

If I want a new one they are expensive as shit.

 

[Shock]

Find yourself a working FW900, that thing was a beast.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00004YNSR/?tag=neogaf0e-20

22.5-inch viewable screen
2,304 x 1,440 maximum resolution

Man.... I miss these bad boys.

 

[JRW]

I still play PC games and emulators on my CRT PC monitor. And i still haven't seen an LCD monitor that has a better moving image.

No blurring, no ghosting, no lag, blacks are blacks at every viewing angle, etc.

Yea there's a motion test that has you type in a string of text that is scrolling by,You can adjust the tempo / scroll speed, on a CRT you can usually hit the max Tempo of 30, But on an LCD you're lucky to get past Tempo 10 (test ends when you incorrectly enter a text string).

I was able to reach Tempo 28 on my Plasma (Pioneer Kuro 5080).

If anyone wants to try it the test in question is the Readability Test once you launch the program:
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/testsoftware/pixperan.html

 

[Darkangel]

tell me more

I have a 40" LCD screen as this computers monitor. yes it's on a desk.

also a 55" LCD screen for my other computers monitor.

also a LCD TV which is mounted on my living room wall.

none of them occupy any floor space.

am I being obtuse?

CRT computer monitors really aren't that big.

Sure they're larger than an LCD, but far from a massive inconvenience.

 

[Shock]

CRT computer monitors really aren't that big.

Sure they're larger than an LCD, but far from a massive inconvenience.

Also, most desk have a shit ton of room behind them so if your already against a wall no big deal.

I probably have about 18" between the back of my LED and the wall on my desk.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

-So do decent monitors, especially IPS displays.

But IPS screens have more input lag than TN displays. You might not notice the difference, but there's a reason that super-low-latency gaming monitors exist. And those low-latency displays are never IPS.

********

Again, I fully understand why no one would want a humongous 40-inch-plus CRT TV. Those things were really huge and really heavy. But monitors are rarely more than 24 inches. A CRT of that size wouldn't be that heavy, and it wouldn't take up that much desk space. What do you do with the desk space behind your monitor anyway?

 

[missile]

Its because CRTs do not have a native resolution. ...

B/Ws don't have, but color CRTs do have.


With today's technology we could build much improved CRTs.

 

[DJ_Lae]

They are noisy too. The high frequency noise drives me crazy, I rather have a LCD, even for older systems.

This drove me nuts the last time I went back to my parents house and messed around with some older games on the Wega in their basement. I remember it being a bigger issue for my last CRT monitor, too.

Turning the things on and immediately there's a constant dog whistle being blown. It's excruciating.

Don't miss the eyestrain either.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

I have a 40" LCD screen as this computers monitor. yes it's on a desk.

also a 55" LCD screen for my other computers monitor.

Okay, so you probably wouldn't want a CRT. That makes sense. 40 inch CRT's are huge.

But most people's monitors are much smaller than that.

 

[SchrodingerC]

Because I have limited room on my desk and I don't need a bigass computer monitor taking up the space. The only benefit it would have is stability, a needed feature around my rambunctious cats.

 

[Peltz]

A 4k CRT would be a dream come true.

Some Gaffers, myself included, have CRTs for non-hd content. It makes 240p content look great.

But I really, really wish they were still made with modern tech and games in mind.

I game on a Sony BVM CRT broadcast monitor. The picture through rgb start is insane. Could never game with my old systems any other way now

Huggers knows all.

 

[TacosNSalsa]

I still have a 27 in 1080i/720p CRT from Advent. I LOVE that thing ...Lol the sceen kinda went out so there are these black "dome" type bars on either side. I would love to get it fixed but not sure of the cost and it weighs 150 lbs. easy

 

[Chastten]

Lol, I remember back when I was still in university back in 2001 or 2002 and got a dual monitor setup - 2 17inch screens. My cheap Ikea desk nearly collapsed under the weight of those monsters.

Never going back to that stuff. They might or might not be better then LCD stuff depending on your preferences, but the convenience factor alone kills any desire I could have for a CRT.

 

[missile]

This drove me nuts the last time I went back to my parents house and messed around with some older games on the Wega in their basement. I remember it being a bigger issue for my last CRT monitor, too.

Turning the things on and immediately there's a constant dog whistle being blown. It's excruciating. ...

Dat ~15kHz sound! Coming from weak flyback transformers.
Running your CRT at about 25kHz horz. refresh will make the sound go
silent for you, yet your cat and dog may complain about it nevertheless.

 

[Ziffles]

There's a market for mechanical keyboards, there's a market for old fashioned glass tube amps, there should be a market for CRT gaming monitors.

That'd be nice, but there are still plenty of companies that make triode tubes, so making a tube amp is still fairly trivial.

The manufacturing base for cathode ray tubes, on the other hand, has pretty much evaporated. They're never coming back.

 

[JRW]

Pic I took from our Sony 34XBR960N CRT which was a Super fine pitch model Sony had out towards the end of CRT production. That thing had ridiculous PQ.

(PS3 playing a Bluray)

 

[Wowfunhappy]

its like asking why isnt flac audio the norm? the mass market isnt interested in large + expensive

FLAC audio isn't the norm for the mass market. But among audio enthusiasts, it's actually becoming quite common.

As far as I'm aware, there is literally nobody on the entire planet who is currently building CRT monitors. I understand they're not for everybody, but it seems like something gaming enthusiasts would want.

Gaming enthusiasts spend hundreds of dollars on low-latency TN displays with crappy colors and crappy viewing angles. A CRT would be even LOWER latency without either of those downsides, while ALSO removing the need for antialiasing, because the pixels are round and soft like the dots of ink from a printer.

Sure, you can still find used CRTs at garage sales, but those suck. High quality CRTs are hard to find, and it's only going to get harder.

 

[Madao]

a CRT the same size as my current HDTV would crush my entertainment center lol.