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Why did Sheev Palpatine form the Empire?

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I figured that forming the Empire gives him the ability to execute Order 66 and exterminate as many Jedi as possible.

His primary goal as a Sith Lord is to get revenge on the Jedi. Forming the Empire is the means to that end.
 
Hold the fucking phone

when did his first name get revealed as Sheev?

The Tarkin novel from a while ago

in another book we learn He abandons this name when he was younger, since he hated the father who gave it to him, but decided to answer only to his family name, as it had lots of influence.

To him, "Palpatine" is his only public name.
 
I wish the new Star Wars movies would introduce the idea that the concepts of the light side and dark side as both being equally perverse ideas. And that a true practitioner of the force learns to use both sides, and that pale, sagging skin and yellow eyes are the result of a twisted worship of a very narrow range of the force (the "dark side", which could be explained to be force powers that are designed to injure). Equally, strict adherence to the light side leads to something bad also, like staid, stifling narrow mindedness, an inability to adapt, or inability to see the future clearly. Something like that. And that the balanced practitioners of the force are seen as more powerful, wiser, more capable of leading a galaxy.

They did this for awhile in the old EU. It was dumb
 
I figured that forming the Empire gives him the ability to execute Order 66 and exterminate as many Jedi as possible.

His primary goal as a Sith Lord is to get revenge on the Jedi. Forming the Empire is the means to that end.

That's a good theory.

So it might not be that he killed the Jedi on the way to founding the Empire, he founded the Empire as a means to get revenge on the Jedi? It is the Revenge of the Sith, after all.

It's really that he just knocked his enemy, the Jedi, off their throne, and took it for himself. Once on top, why not rule?

I'm actually satisfied with that as an answer.
 
That's a good theory.

So it might not be that he killed the Jedi on the way to founding the Empire, he founded the Empire as a means to get revenge on the Jedi? It is the Revenge of the Sith, after all.

It's really that he just knocked his enemy, the Jedi, off their throne, and took it for himself. Once on top, why not rule?

I'm actually satisfied with that as an answer.

Basically, yes.

Gain power and knock off as many light Jedi as possible.

Form and maintain the Empire, which is what could be considered the governmental and philosophical opposite of the light Jedi council.

Use that new authority to increase his Sith power base, and kill off any light side Force remnants.

???

Profit.
 
They did this for awhile in the old EU. It was dumb

It could have worked but they always wimped out though, because they couldn't ever actually make the force anything other than black and white. They could only dabble and hint at it a little because the official company line was the dark side is bad and the light side is good. For example Jacen Solo's 12 book arc was great for the first half because they portrayed Jacen as being the only one to see the forthcoming spiraling of the galaxy into war, but by the end he's no longer the intelligent, insightful servant of the force trying to bring about peace, just another cartoonishly evil Sith. It could have been one of the greatest EU storylines if he had actually succeeded in bringing about peace through his new teachings and powers in the dark side, but they could never do that because it wasn't the corporate line about how the force works.
 
I'm actually surprised that so few people have understood the real motive.

It's so that he can have (unlimited) power to achieve immortality.

It's not about killing Jedi, or establishing order, or just wanting to be on top, or the EU reason about organizing against the Vong. It's just greed. The Sith are attached to physical life and will do anything and everything to maintain it.

The Plagueis novel has been decanonized, yes, but Plagueis the character still exists and the Tarkin novel + what we know of him from RotS still indicates that he was searching for immortality. Palpatine could never let his master achieve that, since that would mean he would not be able to kill him and take his place as Dark Lord of the Sith, so he killed him before he could discover the secret. I don't think it's coincidence that he temporarily had an alliance with Mother Talzin and the Nightsisters, whose "magicks" are able to let them assume ethereal forms or that he is funding the research of Dr. Cylo, who has a sort of AI program that lets him replicate his persona across multiple bodies in the event that one dies (even if that's not true immortality).

The Tarkin novel makes it explicit that Palpatine does not care about the Empire as a thing in itself, or the ideology of it. He uses it as a means to an end for ultimate power. With the Empire, Palpatine was able to wipe out the major threat to his power - the Jedi - so that he can spend all his time studying the dark arts in his pursuit of the ultimate goal. For most of the book, when he's not dealing with the Imperial Ruling Council, he's meditating in the ancient Sith shrine beneath the Jedi Temple trying to coax out secrets of power from the dark side.

Tarkin said:
Vader looked down at him, the sound of his regulated breathing diminished by the howl of the high-altitude wind. “Moff Tarkin should be ordered to return to Sentinel Base and resume his duties there.”

“Ah, so you’re arguing on Tarkin’s behalf, are you?”

“For the Empire, Master.”

“The Empire?” Sidious repeated, miming surprise. “Since when do you put the needs of the Empire before our needs?”

Vader crossed his gauntleted hands in front of him. “Our needs supersede all, Master.”

“Then why do you contradict me?”

“I apologize, Master. I will do as you have commanded.”

“No—not good enough,” Sidious snapped. “Of course you will do as I command, and of course Moff Tarkin needs to resume his duties on the Sentinel moon. The sooner the battle station is completed, the sooner you and I can devote ourselves to more pressing matters—matters only you and I can investigate and that have little to do with the Empire.”

This doesn't come as a surprise since Luceno, the book's author, has said he wants to do a novel about Sheev has and that he thinks his goal is achieving immortality to essentially become a god over the Force.

The EU had the immortality concept as well with Palpatine's clones on Byss, but I think the goal in the new canon is more obviously to just flat out never die at all. I think this will become more obvious in the post-RotJ period since it will be almost unavoidable to mention that there was no proper chain of command since Palpatine never intended to die.

In short, I would argue that both the Empire and even the concept of the Sith itself are not things Palpatine had true loyalty to. He created the Empire purely so that he could get the power he needed to accomplish the task of understanding "the great mystery", as he called it in RotS, and the Sith Order was likewise simply a path to that power. Palpatine abused the Rule of Two as it was, so I don't see any reason to believe he truly had loyalty to Sith ideology. He was always in it for one thing - himself.
 
I'm actually surprised that so few people have understood the real motive.

It's so that he can have (unlimited) power to achieve immortality.

It's not about killing Jedi, or establishing order, or just wanting to be on top, or the EU reason about organizing against the Vong. It's just greed. The Sith are attached to physical life and will do anything and everything to maintain it.

The Plagueis novel has been decanonized, yes, but Plagueis the character still exists and the Tarkin novel + what we know of him from RotS still indicates that he was searching for immortality. Palpatine could never let his master achieve that, since that would mean he would not be able to kill him and take his place as Dark Lord of the Sith, so he killed him before he could discover the secret. I don't think it's coincidence that he temporarily had an alliance with Mother Talzin and the Nightsisters, whose "magicks" are able to let them assume ethereal forms or that he is funding the research of Dr. Cylo, who has a sort of AI program that lets him replicate his persona across multiple bodies in the event that one dies (even if that's not true immortality).

The Tarkin novel makes it explicit that Palpatine does not care about the Empire as a thing in itself, or the ideology of it. He uses it as a means to an end for ultimate power. With the Empire, Palpatine was able to wipe out the major threat to his power - the Jedi - so that he can spend all his time studying the dark arts in his pursuit of the ultimate goal. For most of the book, when he's not dealing with the Imperial Ruling Council, he's meditating in the ancient Sith shrine beneath the Jedi Temple trying to coax out secrets of power from the dark side.



This doesn't come as a surprise since Luceno, the book's author, has said he wants to do a novel about Sheev has and that he thinks his goal is achieving immortality to essentially become a god over the Force.

The EU had the immortality concept as well with Palpatine's clones on Byss, but I think the goal in the new canon is more obviously to just flat out never die at all. I think this will become more obvious in the post-RotJ period since it will be almost unavoidable to mention that there was no proper chain of command since Palpatine never intended to die.

In short, I would argue that both the Empire and even the concept of the Sith itself are not things Palpatine had true loyalty to. He created the Empire purely so that he could get the power he needed to accomplish the task of understanding "the great mystery", as he called it in RotS, and the Sith Order was likewise simply a path to that power. Palpatine abused the Rule of Two as it was, so I don't see any reason to believe he truly had loyalty to Sith ideology. He was always in it for one thing - himself.
I'm not surprised at all.
The majority of people don't read 20 books on the backstory of palpatine. All we have to go by is one movie where he's just evil and one awful movie where he's running around drooling and laughing like a drunken idiot.
 
I think that he did it because he legitimately wanted to rule the galaxy to make it great. It's just that George Lucas doesn't understand how to communicate that, somehow. Perhaps have Luke engaging with a civilian who supports the Empire, who talks about how the galaxy needs a powerful, bold leader to keep order, and that the galaxy was in chaos before the Emperor came into power. Hell, maybe have this character be an old friend of Luke's so we can watch the perspectives warp and change. Maybe it helps in clouding Luke, knowing someone he is good friends with supports this oppressive regime? Maybe his friend joins the Empire, stationed on the Death Star? Perhaps Luke realizes his presence, adding an extra layer of conflict in his actions? The rebel's victory will surely mean the end of someone he once considered a friend.

I didn't intend this post to veer into "here's what they should have done". I'm also not used to having to talk about the OT with respect to flaws to such a degree where the introduction or removal of characters is necessary. :v
 
SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEV.

time for that gag again

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What scenes from the movies give you that impression?

Well, if we're looking at it with the impression that he wanted to have the Emperor have SOME purpose, we can assume this to be the case. Even if we assume no depth, we can also trace Palpatine's design and conception to simplifications of horrible dictators - all of whom probably wanted to do such a thing. That is, create a "great country" under their rule. Unfortunately, "great" to a dictator is not great to a lot of people. Granted a lot of this requires a lot of stretching and extrapolation, but I think if Lucas was put under a bright light, he would come up with something beyond just "he's the bad guy".

If only the EU thing about an extra-galaxy invading force was canon

And as a side note, how great would it have been if we didn't know the Emperor's name. They could have legitimately shocked audiences in the prequel trilogy. It'd still suck, but it'd at least have some value. If you really wanted to obfuscate the situation, you could have Palpatine be attacked by someone who we assume to be Sidious, leading us to believe that Sidious is the Emperor's true name.
 
Well, if we're looking at it with the impression that he wanted to have the Emperor have SOME purpose, we can assume this to be the case. Even if we assume no depth, we can also trace Palpatine's design and conception to simplifications of horrible dictators - all of whom probably wanted to do such a thing. That is, create a "great country" under their rule. Unfortunately, "great" to a dictator is not great to a lot of people. Granted a lot of this requires a lot of stretching and extrapolation, but I think if Lucas was put under a bright light, he would come up with something beyond just "he's the bad guy".

If only the EU thing about an extra-galaxy invading force was canon

I'm just asking because we see scenes that show motivation for wanting to kill Jedi.

We see scenes that show motivation for wanting to gain power.

I don't recall any scenes, however, that show him showing any concern over restoring order, or building a better world, other than what he said for propaganda purposes.
 
If only the EU thing about an extra-galaxy invading force was canon

The Yuuzhan Vong story was horrible and most people are glad it was purged.

Star Wars is a pulp story, not everything needs to be morally grey. Palpatine manipulated the Jedi in the PT to make them morally grey but he himself has always just been space Satan. Or at least, a space Satan who makes Anakin think that he's Miltonian actually-not-really-a-bad-guy Satan, but is still actually pretty much Satan.
 
Didn't he want to rule the universe because that's what the darkside of the force wanted and he had become so powerful that he was almost pure darkside? Isn't someone who is a dark force user craving power like a cat who likes shiny objects in that it's just kinda embedded in them naturally?
 
I'm just asking because we see scenes that show motivation for wanting to kill Jedi.

We see scenes that show motivation for wanting to gain power.

I don't recall any scenes, however, that show him showing any concern over restoring order, or building a better world, other than what he said for propaganda purposes.

See though, I'm sure all of the dictators say that kind of shit - talking about the greater good or sacrifices or whatever - but still, I'm sure many dictators believe that their way is the right way.

The Yuuzhan Vong story was horrible and most people are glad it was purged.

Star Wars is a pulp story, not everything needs to be morally grey. Palpatine manipulated the Jedi in the PT to make them morally grey but he himself has always just been space Satan. Or at least, a space Satan who makes Anakin think that he's Miltonian actually-not-really-a-bad-guy Satan, but is still actually pretty much Satan.

To be fair, the films are pulpy - can the EU really expand and be interesting if it sticks to the style of homage that the films had? It makes sense for Palpatine to feel like a Flash Gordon villain in the films, but without room to expand, then he doesn't have much of a purpose in the expanded universe, does he?

Plus, the invasion thing didn't portray him as a morally grey figure - he still wanted to exterminate the Jedi, and he withheld information about the invasion that could have saved trillions of lives, all so that he could have a simpler ascension to power. He utilized this knowledge and allowed it to become worse than it needed to be.
 
Didn't he want to rule the universe because that's what the darkside of the force wanted and he had become so powerful that he was almost pure darkside? Isn't someone who is a dark force user craving power like a cat who likes shiny objects in that it's just kinda embedded in them naturally?

The Dark Side in recent years has gotten really confusing. They do the whole life after death thing but then argue if you are dark side there is no life after death. So Sith basically obsess with seeking ways to defeat death. The force is pretty assholish that it can't even have a hell or something for the dark side.
 
Yeah Palpatine foresees the outside invasion of the Galaxy. Outbound Flight etc. has been somewhat retconned to deal with it Mind you there is no altruism behind his defense of the galaxy. Its all about stopping people from wrecking what he views as his.

In the end the Rebellion crippling the Empire opens the Galaxy to invasion and the Invasion kills 365 Trillion people.

Ouch, GG luke.
 
Palpatine wanted dominion over the galaxy. His rule was all about enforcing order according to Sith ideals, which essentially amount to social Darwinism. The Empire was meant to be an eternal galactic dictatorship ruled by Palpatine.

A lot of the Extended Universe stuff is no longer canon, but there are still hints in the prequel trilogy that Palpatine was chasing immortality.

Yep. I think a lot of it is that he's afraid of death and wants to destroy everything he's afraid of and/or can't control (basically the same thing to him). Just like Vader, he's ultimately someone so far down the rabbit hole of the Dark Side (fear of vulnerability) that he ends up acting totally evil.

Weren't there kinda hints somewhere that he was aiming to find a way to take over Anakin's body before Obi-Wan royally fucked that plan up? And that biologically-intact Luke might've been the next best thing? I can't remember where I read that so maybe it's just fan speculation.
 
Yep. I think a lot of it is that he's afraid of death and wants to destroy everything he's afraid of and/or can't control (basically the same thing to him). Just like Vader, he's ultimately someone so far down the rabbit hole of the Dark Side (fear of vulnerability) that he ends up acting totally evil.

Weren't there kinda hints somewhere that he was aiming to find a way to take over Anakin's body before Obi-Wan royally fucked that plan up? And that biologically-intact Luke might've been the next best thing? I can't remember where I read that so maybe it's just fan speculation.

I think he just wanted Anakin's prodigious power in the force to use him to get immortality. When Anakin got crippled Luke had power like Anakin's and so Palpatine needed him.

In the EU the reborn Palpatine tried to take over the newborn Anakin Solo's body. Cade Skywalker later ended up discovering the "power to cheat death", it came to him instinctively and he saved many of his friends with it.
 
I'm sure there is some Sith wisdom of having power for power's sake... But that's not enough for me.
Doesn't matter if that's not enough for you. We have people like that in real life who aren't particularly ethical people, so it's a good motivation to base a villain on.
 
I would agree his primary motivation was immortality, not sure where the empire actually fit into that. Maybe the dark side requires blowing up entire planets to achieve immortality? Maybe he discovered a way to harness all the force energy of millions of voices screaming out in terror?
 
I would agree his primary motivation was immortality, not sure where the empire actually fit into that. Maybe the dark side requires blowing up entire planets to achieve immortality? Maybe he discovered a way to harness all the force energy of millions of voices screaming out in terror?
In the old EU he actually did have the power to corrupt planets into like dark side factories
 
Why did Padme randomly die at the end of RotS?

She died of a broken heart takotsubo cardiomyopathy.

Happens in real life, so it's cool for her to go out like this in the movie. I'm sure being force choked and giving birth didn't help, either.
 
Is it Sheev like Steve?

Or Sheev like Kiev?

I actually have a bunch of questions I'd like to ask as a casual fan getting more into it with my five year old son but I don't wan to derail this thread. Is there a SW community thread or should I start a "Casual fan here, have some questions" thread?
 
Wait what? That sounds super interesting. Suddenly I wanna know about Star Wars EU.

Did they do this in the books at one point?

Yeah some extra-galactic aliens who base their entire society and technology on biological matter show up with a near genocidal hate for machines and invade the New Republic. They also cannot feel the Force or be felt by Force users which is a great source of mystery for the new Jedi.

Eventually they're stopped and all is explained but yeah, it's a pretty mixed bag told over like 30 books.
 
"Seeking power" an answer that works to explain a saturday morning cartoon villain. But it doesn't work in a multi-dimensional human narrative where people should have legitimate motivations for their actions.

Standing right on the precipice of epiphany. 😛
 
I have always thought it was a combination of fulfilling the thousand years old plan of the sith and trying to achieve complete mastery of the dark side, basically religious fanaticism combined with megalomania.
 
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