AlternativeUlster
Absolutely pathetic part deux
TheSeks said:
Damn it!!!!! What video benefit does it add?
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Why did Sony remove Linux from the PS3 slim?
- Thread starter Visualante
- Start date
Damn it!!!!! What video benefit does it add?
speculawyer
Member
Since they sell these boxes at a loss they probably did not want to subsidized some geeks that were buying up a ton of them and creating a massively parallel processing farm.
One could really build a kick ass CGI rendering farm with a bunch of networked PS3s running Linux.
Build a farm, write a movie, and they go up against Sony Animation pictures with Sony subsidizing your server farm.
One could really build a kick ass CGI rendering farm with a bunch of networked PS3s running Linux.
Build a farm, write a movie, and they go up against Sony Animation pictures with Sony subsidizing your server farm.
So... If someone really wanted to, could they just pay Sony a few Million to make a new set of drivers? Or does it need continues upkeeping?The Faceless Master said:
Though I guess at that point it would be cheaper to commission the productions of several thousand more Original PS3s.
Uh, I thought Sony said it was Nvidia who did not want access to the GPU, not Sony wanting to prevent piracy. With the current hypervisor, I don't think piracy was the issue either.Visualante said:
I know there's full access to the CELL. But not having GPU access still means the hardware is nerfed.
Combichristoffersen said:
The slim toploading NES lost AV out (but somehow, the Famicom they put in the same case gained it).
If Sony's shipping only a special firmware set, there's the obvious savings on testing (even though otherOS needs to be checked, it can break game or vice-versa and CS departments are likely to be a lot easier to work with on patching.) The security and access restrictions can also be dialed down like they are on other controlled-distribution units. A price can be negotiated that's far above PS3 retail even though it's far below other Cell workstations. And probably most importantly, the sales rep sealing the deal can have a PR flack on speed-dial to get press releases about it out, whereas a $50k order of PS3s on Dell or Newegg or Amazon goes unnoticed except by bank fraud departments and UPS drivers.
The Faceless Master
Member
there was no benefit to cutting it on hardware that still supported it, it only made sense when they had hardware that would require new drivers.Alphahawk said:
The Faceless Master
Member
didn 't the gamecube lose component video output?MWS Natural said:
Yes, my GS+EE sporting, 4 USB porting Kutaragistation is definitely elite. Except by BD drive is fucked and awaiting repair/replacement. :/Speevy said:
I think the point of computer security and encryption isn't to make an unbreakable system, it's to make it unbreakable for long enough that when it is broken, the benefits obtained are near worthless.jonabbey said:Somebody has to be the first to make a system that can't be effectively attacked, after all.
In the PS3's case, I guess that point in time is after the console is no longer on market.
Yeah, it did.The Faceless Master said:
Alx
Member
Visualante said:
Well it's not first-hand experience, but I had an interview with a guy who did his PhD on parrallel computing, and used cells among other processors. He told me that the PS3 + Sony SDK was not interesting for his purposes before it didn't allow for direct SIMD instructions calls, and you need them to really benefit from the cell power (sorry if it doesn't make sense, I don't know much about cell programming so I write that from memory).
I don't see any legitimate reason to remove support. They'd have to update the hypervisor code for the slim, which represents some effort but other than that it should be no different to what is already there. I'm sure Yellowdog would even take on the work for free since they're most likely to benefit.
For Sony Linux represents good will to the homebrew scene and a way to split homebrewers and pirates into two distinct groups. Look at cfw on PSP to see how a vast number of pirates can hide behind the comparatively tiny set of homebrewers.
I don't see IBM objecting either. The university who straps together 50 PS3s today is far more likely to order IBM kit tomorrow.
For Sony Linux represents good will to the homebrew scene and a way to split homebrewers and pirates into two distinct groups. Look at cfw on PSP to see how a vast number of pirates can hide behind the comparatively tiny set of homebrewers.
I don't see IBM objecting either. The university who straps together 50 PS3s today is far more likely to order IBM kit tomorrow.
DrXym said:
I dunno. Part of the reason for interest in Cell is how cheap access is via PS3.
eBay supply likely won't dry up soon for university researchers anyway...so they won't immediately have to turn to IBM's more expensive solutions.
If IBM's servers were their only option, I think they wouldn't bother.
Alx said:
Not sure what he's referring to there, but there's quite a lot of people out there using them for research.
So whatever the significance of that if it's true, it doesn't really dent Visualante's claim.
i think it's just a business thing without any real influence from 3rd parties.
For every PS3 used in research, Sony won't be making back the money at the moment in games purchases. plus support (just in leaving the option in and testing that it works with every single release) is probably something they could easily cut.
i don't think there was really a large enough interest in anything that would've benefitted Sony financially, and i imagine that's the bottom line. it's very unlikely IBM or any other company had anything to do with it.
For every PS3 used in research, Sony won't be making back the money at the moment in games purchases. plus support (just in leaving the option in and testing that it works with every single release) is probably something they could easily cut.
i don't think there was really a large enough interest in anything that would've benefitted Sony financially, and i imagine that's the bottom line. it's very unlikely IBM or any other company had anything to do with it.
BoilersFan23
Member
That's if they still work, since the majority of people I know with a 60GB had theirs break. However, its understandable due to being an older model and having the most internal components (more components pretty much means a higher chance of failure). It even seems like a lower percentage of 20GB consoles break (from those I know who own one). That's honestly why I would not recommend a 60GB PS3 to anyone these days (I wouldn't be against someone buying the 80GB with an emulated EE).OuterWorldVoice said:
Back to the topic, I just feel Sony removed it because it wasn't really needed. They are trying to make it more of a game console, and it probably didn't make sense to include it. With those who used it since it wasn't anything special.
never was interested in linux but still cool to see things like this...
Ray tracing + head tracking in real time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYNTIyYIJBQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SDGG9HhbgQ
Ray tracing + head tracking in real time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYNTIyYIJBQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SDGG9HhbgQ
ChackanKun
Member
Because it was unnecessary.
onken
Member
silverbullet1080
Banned
As in it did, but not anymore.onken said:
Manmademan
Member
Combichristoffersen said:
The Genesis model 2 revision lost the headphone jack and had a pretty serious downgrade in sound quality due to cheaper chips.
The original revision of the PS1 actually had distinct composite plugs on the back- the yellow, red, and white ports- so you could use any cables you wanted to hook it up. later revisions removed it in favor of the multi-out.
Later gamecubes lost the plug/port that allowed them to do 480p.
This happens all the time.
OuterWorldVoice said:
Early 80 gigs (Motorstorm and Metal Gear pack ins) were essentially the same as the 60s.
charlequin
Banned
TheSeks said:
And people were right to bitch about the price tag, which was idiotic. The correct solution by Sony was to cut the price and keep BC only in whatever the more expensive SKU was so people could see the correlation and choose between price and BC, whichever was more important to them.
The Linux feature really wasn't important so I don't see any reason not to cut that, though. And I laugh at the three or four people who were actually disappointed that they cut SA-CD.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
ChackanKun said:
Video game systems by virtue of their existence are unnecessary. Even in the context of its original function, nothing the PS3 does besides strictly playing games is a necessity.
I suppose next they should take out the weather and news function, the What's New app, and DVD compatibility.
The cost associated with developing hypervisor drivers is the only mildly plausible reason I've seen. Problem is that they still have to develop those drivers to a certain extent for the GameOS, and it's hardly a per-unit cost as was implied by the deleted post. The drivers at the linux level could easily be handled by the community (like they do with most drivers in the linux kernel) and Sony knows it.
And the whole point of the slim was that they'd stop taking a big per-unit loss, so it's not like they were losing a lot of money subsidizing researchers. And for many uses, the PS3 just doesn't have enough memory. Want to make a render farm with them? :lol Good for cracking encryption and other esoteric pure math stuff, no so good with large data sets. IBM always had a market for their big iron.
The lack of video acceleration was a big problem for a lot of projects, but the company that makes Mesa, a free software opengl renderer used by most linux distros, sponsered a Cell-accelerated driver. Unfortunately, it came at the same time the team wanted to completely rework the driver model, so the Cell driver got delayed a year or two. And it still sucks last I checked. And with Sony cutting back on linux support, I don't see it going anywhere. IBM donated a Cell-accelerated SDL library, but that was just for 2D apps, and they did it just before the Slim came out.
I think the real reason Sony dropped linux support is they want to get an app marketplace going. Why support free linux for everyone when they can sell everyone the apps? Only problem is that I doubt they'll allow half the apps people want (emulators, XBMC), and I doubt the SDKs will be terribly easy to get a hold of.
And the whole point of the slim was that they'd stop taking a big per-unit loss, so it's not like they were losing a lot of money subsidizing researchers. And for many uses, the PS3 just doesn't have enough memory. Want to make a render farm with them? :lol Good for cracking encryption and other esoteric pure math stuff, no so good with large data sets. IBM always had a market for their big iron.
The lack of video acceleration was a big problem for a lot of projects, but the company that makes Mesa, a free software opengl renderer used by most linux distros, sponsered a Cell-accelerated driver. Unfortunately, it came at the same time the team wanted to completely rework the driver model, so the Cell driver got delayed a year or two. And it still sucks last I checked. And with Sony cutting back on linux support, I don't see it going anywhere. IBM donated a Cell-accelerated SDL library, but that was just for 2D apps, and they did it just before the Slim came out.
I think the real reason Sony dropped linux support is they want to get an app marketplace going. Why support free linux for everyone when they can sell everyone the apps? Only problem is that I doubt they'll allow half the apps people want (emulators, XBMC), and I doubt the SDKs will be terribly easy to get a hold of.
Naked Snake
Member
Totobeni said:
Weren't those features added to all PS3s in later firmwares?
yurinka
Member
In their Media / Investor Conference document (Nov 19th 2009) they mention a non-game PSN development kit to be released in Q2 2010. So I think they will open something like an AppStore without games for PSN, or at least they will have 3rd party apps.androvsky said:
I predict piracy in PS3 as soon as PS3 HW becomes profitable. And the return of PS2 BC once PS2 HW stops being profitable (when PS3 HW profitable, too).EXGN said:
DemonNite said:
As I remember, Gran Turismo 5 will support headtracking.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
actually it lost digital AV out. one of the applications of that was component video.The Faceless Master said:
as re why sony ditched otherOS support - the answer can be only one - it did not make monetary sense for them. whatever the benefits were (indy and academia getting familiar with the architecture, popularizing the brand among non-gaming audiences, etc) - that did not make up for the expenditures. we could argue all we want how nice the feature was for the (select) consumer, but at the end the bottomline controls the industry - sony are not champions of the technological progress of mankind, they are just another for-profit organization.
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