Blitzblotz
Banned
Thread title is passive aggressive lol.
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Why didn't FROM SOFTWARE used the "good" things from Dark Souls 2 in Bloodborne?
- Thread starter QuickSilverD
- Start date
GrandHarrier
Member
I never realized how much some people loathed shields, magic, miracles, bows/crossbows and anything not explicitly allowed by BB until I saw the talk from BB enthusiasts.
The first half of bosses are pretty amazing and all challenging. The second half of the games bosses pretty much all fall flat with 2 exceptions though, with many suffering for the same, "circle around big dude get some hits in" style fights. The gimmick fights were kinda bad too, I like Witches, but Micolash and Celestial Emmisary were just bad fights all around, and Amaglyda really wasn't great either even if it did look awesome finally fighting one of those things.
Not really, early on there were doubts because of some of the things the devs said about the game being more accessible, but that didn't last long and after the alpha everyone was excited for it, the hype during the few weeks before release was even bigger than that of DS1, especially after reviews came out and many reviewers/youtube personalities said it was better than DS1.
You can even go back and check people's early reaction in the game's OT, "B team" didn't became a big thing until people saw the game's end credit and started comparing it with DS1.
TeddyShardik
Banned
You really need to show me that talk because I have not seen that, outside of people mentioning they actually miss their shields and magic.
Besides that it's not too hard to understand it's a bit refreshing especially for people who relied on shields to play a souls game in a completely different way that they probably wouldn't have chosen if they did have the option to go with what they're used to.
julzillamilitia
Banned
As others have said.
"L3 to jump" is not a "good thing"
"L3 to jump" is not a "good thing"
Whaaa? L3 to jump is way better. How is having a button dedicated just for jumping worse than not?
TeddyShardik
Banned
That might be true for you but having the option to separate the jump button from your run button is definitely a good thing. Which one people prefer doesn't matter with this solution.
It's just a thing you need to get used to I guess. I know I had my problems when I first started DS2. I now prefer L3 though.
On ruined sticks though: The one game that made me break one of the sticks on my PS3 controller was Dragon's Dogma. I think I waggled it to death trying to get out of grab attacks.
Red Liquorice
Member
GAF first replies, why are they always so on point. <3
Because it's not dedicated to jumping, it's dedicated to character movement as per most third person action games, and the L3 click is a janky way of separating jump from run/roll. You have to hold forward to walk/run forward AND press the stick in to jump, it's uncomfortable, unreliable and an inelegant solution.
GrandHarrier
Member
So would everyone agree that Bloodborne is From's best effort yet?
That thread was littered with them.
Bloodborne runs better than DS2 did on consoles, but still far from acceptable and it have way more bugs. But you're forgetting something, people weren't exactly raving about DS2's technical incompetence, most of it was about how much worse the game look than the initial gameplay videos, they were basically calling From out for the deceiving videos, a problem that didn't happen with Bloodborne.
TeddyShardik
Banned
I'msorry, but I'm not seeing it. Read the first 5 pages only though and there were only people criticising BB actually. I'll just take your word for it and say people hating on shields and magic etc. to say BB is superior are crazy.
Let me guess, you didn't venture deep into Chalice dungeons. ;p
TeddyShardik
Banned
General Lee
Member
I bet none of these O supporters ever went through the effort of trying L3 more than maybe once and then switched back because they were so used to O. I thought L3 seemed weird at first, but I guarantee that anyone who has gone through DS2 with L3 jump never ever goes back to O if they have a choice.
mcz117chief
Member
People who say that L3 is hard to press when you are moving must be crazy. Pretty much every fps game that has a sprint button IS L3 and ONLY works when the button is titled to max. What are you guys trying to prove ?
I'd still say some of the deeper dungeons are better designed than most of DS2.That's fitting since the Chalice Dungeon level design reminds me of DS2 as well.
Though yeah, most Chalice only enemies/bosses would fit just fine in DS2.
I still don't know what CA is and where in those pictures I am seeing it.
plasmawave
Banned
It's a shame those FPS games don't have L3 jumps then!
The CRT looking filter at the edge of the screen.
mcz117chief
Member
does it matter if it is a jump or run ? It is still easy to press and everybody is used to it.
It is not refreshing to have a bunch of playstyles taken away from you. In previous games you had the option to play that way if you wanted. In BB they were like "nope you're playong shieldless melee and liking it."
you're saying the faulty stick rubber on launch ps4s was somehow psychosomatic?
But BB is made with the intention to move away from the more passive playstyle of the Souls series. It forces you to adapt to a faster style of play-- you have to learn and rely on your quickstepping and dodging skills even when you're hulking around a slower weapon like the
Kirkhammer.
I'm even having a concurrent playthrough of a more skill-based character alongside my level 70 quality build (with a side of arcane).
grungy gamer
Member
Ridding the game of unintended rolls to your death (because of O/B) more than justifies the slightly awkward L3 mechanic.
Simply put, L3 provides more confident jumps.
Simply put, L3 provides more confident jumps.
I understand why, I own the game I know what it asks of you. That playstyle is in the older games too, just not by force.
When you played Demon and Dark you choose to play that way. You could have played a more aggressive build, many people did. In BB your are not given this variety in builds. I think forcing people to play in a specific style in a neat design decision. However, I also think it is a poor one and not very refreshing.
I could have sure but I was never really given a compelling reason to. Especially in a Souls game that more often than not conditions the player to be extra wary and rewards said cautiousness. So, I was more than happy to just stick with my shields and spells. The health regain system in BB however encourages the player to go all out. It's quick, fast-paced and it is imo, a refreshing change from the slower-paced circle strafing of the Souls game (which btw I do also enjoy).
I haven't completed BB yet (though I'm pretty sure I'm nearing the end? maybe?) but it really is a nice change of playstyle for me. I do understand where you're coming from though. I've come across a handful of arcane spells but I am hoping that From would introduce a wider range of it in the sequel.
superseohyun
Member
I really hope miyazaki can keep shield out of his future game. More variety of builds yes, but no shield please. Or at least make shields more like in MH games.
How are shields like in MH games? I'm curious. I never thought I'd be able to survive a Souls game without a shield but here I am.
lol I love this logic. "Everyone else is used to it!" If you can't see why taking away the jump button from the same stick as movement in a game where precise dodging is a matter of life and death, then there's nothing I can do. You are free to play with whatever config you want, but putting the jump/run button on a different button was a good call.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Having played a bit more, I agree with all of this. The multiplayer stuff especially seems just plain confusing in this game compared to the signs on the ground in the Souls game. I haven't seen a single opportunity to join another person's game so far and none of my bell ringings have been answered.
It also bothers me that you have to return to the Hunter's Dream in order to teleport to different areas without first returning to the Hunter's Dream. It was nice to be able to teleport directly between bonfires in Dark Souls II and it's just needless extra loading time in BB.
QuickSilverD
Member
wow, when I made this thread I had not realized how contentious an issue L3 jumping was, to the point some people don't even want us to have the option for it.
How so?
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
It really is weird how people try to justify not even having the option, especially considering it existed in a previous game.
Yeah, the previews were pretty misleading. I wonder if the initial reveal was just CG masked as gameplay.
Some things like gutting the torch system seem to have been intentional as if I remember right they were present in the beta.
And did you forget how many people kept post that Pursuer and Ruin Sentinel gifs and shrugged saying that this is what happens when you have the B team working on a game?
Because it's begging the question before the conversation even started.
superseohyun
Member
in short, shield have bigger penalty in exchange of safety and are more difficult to use effectively.
SoraanTribal
Member
Agreed. I don't understand why people immediately dismiss changes even as an option for people who would prefer something else for jump.
Moon_frogger
Member
Honestly I have much more of a problem with run being mapped to circle. How the hell am I supposed to run and still manipulate the camera? With a weird contorted hand gesture, I know. I've hated this since the first game. Run should have been l1 or l2. Parry should have been circle.
But yeah, l3 jumping is just as stupid as circle jumping. It's awkward and caused me to change direction so many times on dksII.
Those of us saying it sucks aren't suggesting you should have the choice to use it, just that it isn't 'better' or necessarily an 'improvement'
But yeah, l3 jumping is just as stupid as circle jumping. It's awkward and caused me to change direction so many times on dksII.
Those of us saying it sucks aren't suggesting you should have the choice to use it, just that it isn't 'better' or necessarily an 'improvement'
Kyleripman
Member
I'm a circle jumper but these kinds of things really should be customizable for everyone.
I've avoided the Bloodborne OTs in order to avoid any spoilers as I'm playing blind, but two things I don't like about it:
1. The need to warp back to Hunter's Dream in order to warp somewhere else - or, worse, to "reset" the area you're in, since you can't just rest at a lamp the way you could rest at a bonfire. I see others have mentioned this in this thread
2. I actually don't like how your dodge mechanic changes based on whether you're locked on or not.I get why they did it, and it is nice to still be able to roll even when it seems the strafe is the emphasized evasion technique, but sometimes I get mixed up and my fight strategy suffers. I expect that will improve with time.
I've avoided the Bloodborne OTs in order to avoid any spoilers as I'm playing blind, but two things I don't like about it:
1. The need to warp back to Hunter's Dream in order to warp somewhere else - or, worse, to "reset" the area you're in, since you can't just rest at a lamp the way you could rest at a bonfire. I see others have mentioned this in this thread
2. I actually don't like how your dodge mechanic changes based on whether you're locked on or not.I get why they did it, and it is nice to still be able to roll even when it seems the strafe is the emphasized evasion technique, but sometimes I get mixed up and my fight strategy suffers. I expect that will improve with time.
cavemancolton
Unconfirmed Member
Neither of those two things were good.
I don't remember that being blamed on B-team, though it wouldn't surprise me if some did. It's funny though, no hit box problem in DS2 is worse than DS1's teleport back stabs.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
truthfact. It boggles my mind how people just do not get that. Prefer the other scheme if you want but this fact will always remain.
Good question. Can you reach that area with the axe fatty in Forbidden Woods (snake area) without it, or can you just roll? I think I jumped just in case but maybe rolling works. And other than that... can't think of anything.
Huh? How would you accidentally click L3, let alone while you're holding O to dash? Makes no sense. You're more likely to accidentally tap O to roll while you're running and then do that awkward jump that will get you eat a direct hit from the enemies you're trying to get away from.
Oh FFS....That's fitting since the Chalice Dungeon level design reminds me of DS2 as well.
I agree with all of this except #4. I think vials being a limited resource is perfect in a horror game, plus, the game is generous with vials anyway so it's not even an issue.
Starting to think it's because Dark Souls 2 invented it, and no b-team idea could possibly be good.
N
Noray
Unconfirmed Member
You're sort of contradicting yourself. If it's not really an issue, what's the added value? It risks making it more frustrating than it needs to be for less skilled players. I consider myself pretty good but I still ran out once or twice and needed to spend my blechoes buying vials. I watched Steve Gaynor (Gone Home director) stream the other day and he had like no vials and was having to grind to get more. It doesn't add anything to the horror atmosphere of the game. The survival horror consideration is "Am I going to have enough vials to survive this section of the game in the short term" not "if I die now am I going to have to grind or go back to the dream to buy more vials". There's nothing spooky about that at all.
I find it odd that souls fans would be so into fast shield-less combat when a huge reason the series interested me was because of the slower paced strategic combat as well as the variety. I don't want the games to go away from the very thing I enjoy and I hope BB is the only one that does.
Obviously FromSoft wanted the jump mechanic to be tricky to execute. They don't want you to navigate the camera when you sprint. Unless you adapt to wrapping your hand around the controller.
That the "L3 jumping" is omitted from Bb is either Miyazaki's statement that jumping should remain difficult and must be mastered. OR they wanted to bring back the feel of DS1. OR perhaps even distance themselves from DS2.
Let the jump button conspiracy roll.
Kyleripman
Member
Well said, agree 100%. Would be a bit better if they refilled like estus.
The Cartographer
Member
This is the time to start laughing.
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