...well fuck. Thanks a lot.
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Why didn't Kryptonians escape Krypton?
- Thread starter Log4Girlz
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That was Braniac wasn't it?
Succinct Verbosity
Member
The sad part about this is that it could actually be true.
Mama Robotnik
Member
Yeah it was brilliant.
It always puzzled me that the Batman comics were eager to include the best bits of TAS into canon - Mr Freeze's (INCREDIBLE) backstory and motives became absolute lore, and Harley Quinn became part of the continuity.
Superman never seemed to do that, as far as I was aware.
Even though a lot of Lois and Clark is trite, I wished wished wished that Tempus was made canon too. God damn it that villain was funny and interesting.
It was TAS Braniac. From what I understand, the "canon" one is quite different (and probably not as cool).
Face it Tiger..
Banned
Daxamites did it long time ago.
Nobody was brave enough it do it since.
Nobody was brave enough it do it since.
Lame. I'm just going to stick with TAS Braniac. Much cooler story.
Kryptonians only have powers under a yellow sun. Their home planet's sun was red, so they were basically normal people.
He isn't reversing the spin of the earth, Superman flies so fast that HE travels back in time. We are seeing everything from his perspective as time is reversed, and then starts moving forward again once he stops at his destination in time.
Earth's sun give Kryptonians power.
CF_Fighter
Member
The other point I had a problem with
Or else maybe they decided to tell it that way because in reality what the Kryptons did was insane and to anyone looking at it from the outside would see their inconsistent logic, yet it was such a part of Kryptonian Society that they had done enough mental gymnastics to make it work. Hence, hubris. Jor-El and Zod both knew the old society of Krypton was failing and wanted to make it anew, they just had different views on it.
When Jor-El was explaining Krypton's fall, which I loved using that Art Deco style, was they were making colonies, settling the galaxy, and then they stopped it and instituted artificial population control with the Genesis Chambers and Codex. They were colonizing worlds and making them into New Kryptons, there was no need for population control.
Or else maybe they decided to tell it that way because in reality what the Kryptons did was insane and to anyone looking at it from the outside would see their inconsistent logic, yet it was such a part of Kryptonian Society that they had done enough mental gymnastics to make it work. Hence, hubris. Jor-El and Zod both knew the old society of Krypton was failing and wanted to make it anew, they just had different views on it.
GrandHarrier
Member
Most backstory that has Kryptonian expansion has it followed by a "return to roots" regression; Basically, they went out into the galaxy and became intergalactic assholes and eventually realized that it was all sort of pointless, so they returned to try and find purpose and meaning and adopted xenophobic tendancies, refusing to let people leave, etc. The only known surviving colony is Daxam, whose population interbred with the natives to become a hybrid species. This is the source of Mon-el of the Legion of Super Heroes. They also become a bit of a problem, in the 31st Century, especially when they become enslaved/mind controlled by Darkseid. Think an army, a billion+ strong, of Supermen.
Also, there tend to be events in the timeline for DC that are meant to be unchangeable, like Barbara Gordon getting shot. Ted Kord Blue Beetles' death, etc. Nothing can change it. So it's why in most (if not all) continuities, Krypton dies. The universe finds a way for it to happen.
Also, there tend to be events in the timeline for DC that are meant to be unchangeable, like Barbara Gordon getting shot. Ted Kord Blue Beetles' death, etc. Nothing can change it. So it's why in most (if not all) continuities, Krypton dies. The universe finds a way for it to happen.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
He never reversed the spin of Earth. It was implied that he flew so fast that he ended up going back in time.
EDIT: Its already been answered above.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
To be at least a tad fair to this version of the story, hubris could still explain a lot. One form cultural arrogance may take, is in closing one's self to the outside world (or universe, in this case) and focusing on purity.
The deal with
artificial populations might be the result of a purity movement. Kryptonians decided they had reached perfection and no longer had to deal with the rest of the galaxy.
Indrid Cold1
Member
Obam-El's Krypton.
There are also the lesser known theories that the Guardians had something to do with it. Like the Martians, the guardians were scared the Kryptionians would surpass them.
Zod the Bear
Member
I've only seen the movies, so don't know how the comics/TAS handled it first hand.
Original movie series-- hubris/"Jor'el? He crazy!"
MoS--
Original movie series-- hubris/"Jor'el? He crazy!"
MoS--
Culture. If you just go by what the movie said, there's plenty of holes there...but I likened it to the ancient Chinese expedition fleets. One emperor built a giant navy and sent out expeditionary fleets, going at least as far as Africa with some debate over the possibility of reaching the Americas. When the fleets arrived home, a new emperor sat on the throne and ordered the ships to be burnt. We don't know what caused the shift from expansion->stopping it and starting population control, but we do know the the Kryptonians have a structured society and belief system (see Zod's "Heresy!" comment to Jor'el.) I'd guess that this new societal belief system caused their isolationist policy. It seems stupid, but so do plenty of cultural practices to those outside of that culture.
There are also the lesser known theories that the Guardians had something to do with it. Like the Martians, the guardians were scared the Kryptionians would surpass them.
wat is this
Infinite Crisis. One of the other Earths.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
The Kryptonians have been space-worthy for 100,000 years so I find it a bit ridiculous that they couldn't find any other forms of energy other than what they got from messing up the core of their planet.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
meh so your super advanced civilization doesn't have a planet wide escape system....hindsight is 20/20 what ya gonna do?
I think krypton was supposed to be more advanced but maybe not as capable as their knowledge would permit. It seemed like Jor El even having one pod to put Kal El in was a lot of resources. Kind of implying he had the knowledge but the kryptonians overall didnt have the resources to just get everyone off the planet on a moments hyperspace jump notice. Im sure that has changed now , since they originally didnt flush out krypton all that much way back in the 30s-40s, but have in later generations of superman. Honestly krypton was probably light years ahead of 1930's /40's earth , but not on the same level of Oa ....well not until it was an editorial mandate that Superman and all things superman related must reign supreme or be in the discussion no matter the topic.
I think krypton was supposed to be more advanced but maybe not as capable as their knowledge would permit. It seemed like Jor El even having one pod to put Kal El in was a lot of resources. Kind of implying he had the knowledge but the kryptonians overall didnt have the resources to just get everyone off the planet on a moments hyperspace jump notice. Im sure that has changed now , since they originally didnt flush out krypton all that much way back in the 30s-40s, but have in later generations of superman. Honestly krypton was probably light years ahead of 1930's /40's earth , but not on the same level of Oa ....well not until it was an editorial mandate that Superman and all things superman related must reign supreme or be in the discussion no matter the topic.
I think that was more due to the fact that Superman:TAS never took off in quite the same way as Batman:TAS did. They really should have swiped the Braniac stuff, it's just really really good and has the added benefit of getting rid of any plot holes concerning Krypton. You are right about Tempus as well.
MisterHero
Super Member
In TAS, the Krypton High Council considered Jor-El insane when he suggested using the Phantom Zone to store Krypton's population. Not only did Brainiac tamper with evidence, but the proposed solutions sounded incredulous.
When a planet's civilization reaches a certain point, they eventually create a vast, singular repository of information. On Earth it's called the Internet. Krypton's version is called Brainiac. In TAS he collected data on each planet he destroyed (the glowing orb things). In the comics, he collects physical, miniaturized pieces of the planets.
My favorite part of Morrison's story is that Superman has to fight Brainiac in the room where he keeps all the bottled cities. To the beings in the bottles, he looks like a giant. While fighting Brainiac, he has to make sure he doesn't crash into any of them.
In my opinion, it's a genius demonstration on Superman trying to restrain his power.
Not only is a battle for several civilizations fought for in a comprehensible scale, but Superman becomes the custodian of these worlds. Kandor included.
About Man of Steel's ending
ULTIMATE REASON FOR KRYPTON'S DEMISE
Wrong. Morrison's New52 version is probably the best version the comics have ever done.
When a planet's civilization reaches a certain point, they eventually create a vast, singular repository of information. On Earth it's called the Internet. Krypton's version is called Brainiac. In TAS he collected data on each planet he destroyed (the glowing orb things). In the comics, he collects physical, miniaturized pieces of the planets.
My favorite part of Morrison's story is that Superman has to fight Brainiac in the room where he keeps all the bottled cities. To the beings in the bottles, he looks like a giant. While fighting Brainiac, he has to make sure he doesn't crash into any of them.
In my opinion, it's a genius demonstration on Superman trying to restrain his power.
Not only is a battle for several civilizations fought for in a comprehensible scale, but Superman becomes the custodian of these worlds. Kandor included.
About Man of Steel's ending
since the Krypton scout ship was destroyed, it's still possible that Brainiac's ship can become a new Fortress
ULTIMATE REASON FOR KRYPTON'S DEMISE
Galactus did it
So what happens if there is a blue sun, red dwarf, brown dwarf, blue dwarf, orange dwarf or a pulsar?
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
The short answer is he gets more powerful and develops more powers under younger and younger Suns.
MisterHero
Super Member
Dunno, but we can probably base some stuff on how Kryptonite works.
IIRC...
Blue sun and kryptonite = weakens Bizarro
Red (Rao) = neutralizes Superman's powers
Red Kryptonite = screws with his body and turns him into stuff. New52 version made the transformations into hallucinations.
There's a bunch of Kryptonite types but not many that match star types.
MisterHero
Super Member
Krypton destroyed itself through science running amok.
"Oh yeah? I'm stronger than you!" sounds pretty compelling though
TheKaeptain
Banned
"This would never happen to us" type of thinking and them ignoring their top scientist. Just pure arrogance.
GrandHarrier
Member
Krypton orbits a red sun. Under these conditions, Kryptonian's are no different than humans, physically. However, under the rays of a yellow sun, they act like human batteries, absorbing and storing solar energy. This energy grants them the use of the powers attributed to someone like Superman; Flight, Super Strength, Invulnerability, Heat vision, etc. All of these abilities "use up" the solar energy they have stored, but typically they will absorb more than they expend unless in high stress (re: combat) scenarios.
different suns
MisterHero
Super Member
Golden Age Kryptonians could leap over buildings and run so fast they didn't need vehicles. Earth's weaker gravity magnified Superman's natural abilities, but the Sun gave him even more powers. Their sun didn't harm them or even destroy them. The original Krypton was destroyed by seismic disasters.
I think it was the same for later versions, but like people have stated, they just weren't allowed to leave Krypton.
Hey, this is interesting, what is this story called?
In the extended "Special Edition" of the 1978 movie, Jor El was one of the only scientists who saw the data to know the end was coming. At least one other scientist saw the data and read Jor El's conclusion, but she thought that she was smarter than Jor El, and she concluded that the data was harmless.
The Council (the same council that Zod was trying to destroy and which Jor El supported, despite an offer from Zod for a high place in his new regime) decided to believe the second scientist, because she was giving them the answer they wanted to hear. I think there was also some resentment towards Jor El for his intelligence, because he can't be as smart as he seems to be, and he can't be right as often as he was (especially since he apparently conflicted with the Council so often that even Zod knew about it). The Council accused him of arrogance.
The Council told Jor El that he wasn't allowed to make his data and conclusions public, because the Council had already concluded that there was no threat, and their word was law. If he betrayed the Council, they would lock him up in the Phantom Zone for treason, same as Zod. Jor El was forbidden from travel and placed on a terrorist watch list, just in case. So Jor El gave the Council his word that neither he nor his wife would attempt to leave the planet. *wink wink*
MisterHero
Super Member
I can't remember, but IIRC Kal-El showing up on Earth was used to be random chance. Donner/Byrne/MoS have reversed that so Krypton always knew about Earth. They knew a lot about different galaxies though, so it didn't stand out to them. Krypton used to be a utopia so people didn't feel the need to leave.
Given that Man of Steel lives in an expanded universe, it's almost puzzling why Zod didn't settle for Mars. ;P
TheKaeptain
Banned
In the 80's: Jor-El knew because he did the math and I believe because of Krypton's history of exploration.
But our sun is white--it's the Earth's atmosphere that makes it appear yellow.
MisterHero
Super Member
It might be in the collection called "Superman and the Men of Steel". It's in Grant Morrison's Action Comics run, but I don't recall the specific issues.
SolarPowered
Member
Came to post this. Glad to see that I was beaten.
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