robotzombie
Member
They already have a large hurdle to cross in the gameplay dept. being that the game is only 30 fps
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Why DmC's Dante is a Bad Character (Video)
- Thread starter HyperBitHero
- Start date
They already have a large hurdle to cross in the gameplay dept. being that the game is only 30 fps
We have a winner!
Honestly, I don't think they understand how dialogue and context work together.
Considering how shitty those aspects of earlier DMC games were, I'm not surprised.
You're making assumptions about his character and to the story to a game that is not even released yet. Do you see how crazy that sounds? You're purely basing these assumptions on a very basic visual level.
I understand the hate, I don't particularly find his new "revised" look to be interesting, but releasing a video to, "deconstruct" his character, at this point and time, is ridiculous.
I understand the hate, I don't particularly find his new "revised" look to be interesting, but releasing a video to, "deconstruct" his character, at this point and time, is ridiculous.
This is true, as I stated similarly above.
I do, however, think it is actually possible for them to make the character EVEN MORE embarrassing.
semiconscious
Gold Member
right. so, basically, the biggest problem you have with dmc dante is that he's dante
. which is also the only real problem i have with the game: other than the fact that this lead character's dante, rather than, i don't know - dante's apprentice? dante's long-lost nephew? dante's love child? - other than that, the game looks acceptable enough to me...but that's a very big (& stupid, & unnecessary) 'other than': a game starring a character who both is & isn't the character he's supposed to be? tremendously moronic idea that, for me, damages just about anything the game could potentially get right...
This could be due to the fact that you actually played DMC3
Point taken. But the premise is still unique. DmC Dante may surprise me, but I wouldn't bet on it. I'm certain that Kat will be the love interest that dies, leaving DmC Dante angry, but her death gives him a glimmer of hope because she was willing to sacrifice herself. Maybe through some weepy teen drama dialogue.
Extrapolation.....Ninja Theory games strengths are always visuals,character,and story....its why Capcom actually wanted them for the job....to create a more multi layered Dante instead of the cocky dick who occasionally gives a shit
Some of you guys need to tone down on the insults (speaking about the previous page).
I am really surprised that Dmc threads usually end with no bans despite hostility on both ends.
I think a more constructive point of discussion would be about what you expect they will or should reveal next?
I personally think they have shown enough story cutscenes. I know that was a previous complaint about the media but the last one I felt was enough to grasp the general basis of the story and the characters (Vergil was the big reveal and they needed to do it to generate hype which it did but going forward there should be no more character reveals).
I think they should show off the shotgun, 1 more firearm and 1 more angel weapon... then keep the remaining weapons secret. They should also show off a couple more enemies, 1 more boss and 1 more stage then.start going into full polish mode no side tracks into game events.
The biggest thing I expect now in terms of reveals aside from a demo is the feature set. They hinted at a Bloody Palace type mode so they should go ahead and reveal that while hinting at unlockables and dlc.
I am really surprised that Dmc threads usually end with no bans despite hostility on both ends.
I think a more constructive point of discussion would be about what you expect they will or should reveal next?
I personally think they have shown enough story cutscenes. I know that was a previous complaint about the media but the last one I felt was enough to grasp the general basis of the story and the characters (Vergil was the big reveal and they needed to do it to generate hype which it did but going forward there should be no more character reveals).
I think they should show off the shotgun, 1 more firearm and 1 more angel weapon... then keep the remaining weapons secret. They should also show off a couple more enemies, 1 more boss and 1 more stage then.start going into full polish mode no side tracks into game events.
The biggest thing I expect now in terms of reveals aside from a demo is the feature set. They hinted at a Bloody Palace type mode so they should go ahead and reveal that while hinting at unlockables and dlc.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
Sorry, had to stop it after "it's such an ignorant view of what being cool is"
Though I gree with the main idea that they should have stick to their ideas and avoid pandering to the fans. But I enjoy how unlikable he is, because he has so much room to grow.
Though I gree with the main idea that they should have stick to their ideas and avoid pandering to the fans. But I enjoy how unlikable he is, because he has so much room to grow.
Calm down. We've already had enough NT defensive explosions of aggression as of late. Not that the other side is exactly innocent...
Even though what has been shown is embarrassing? It was brought up in the other thread that developers like Rocksteady can make huge turnarounds. It isn't impossible that NT will bomb the characters and story with this one. Just a counter-point.
That boss is also terrible. Goes Zelda and looks so messy without hard lock.
----
The swearing is embarrassing. I swear a ton but it is natural dialogue. Dino's swearing appears forced, unnatural, and childish. Swearing back and forth with demons is also beyond stupid. Demons in all games, not just DMC, should always command some presence. This is usually a symbol of age and experience. Even bosses in DMC who goofed around never lost their mystique. NT craps this boss out by putting it on the level of a disgruntled teenager. It ruins the entire mysticism of the boss, who is already forgettable as is.
It's more bad context then dialogue and I usually don't focus on these things.
recton:
My sentiments exactly.
I really think they need to show more melee weapons than that. Let's see both the angel and devil forms of the gauntlets, and one additional weapon. They've already claimed that they have a ton of weapons waiting, so showing a few more shouldn't be a big deal.
BeautifulMemory
Member
Have they said when the demo is coming out?
And Sn00ze, for every DMC4 cutscenes that you posted, there are equally number of ones where he's engaging and caring. Not to mention DMC3
Though I always found the dick homage after beating Berial to be pretty uninteresting
And "Ligggghhht" is indefensible lol
And Sn00ze, for every DMC4 cutscenes that you posted, there are equally number of ones where he's engaging and caring. Not to mention DMC3
Though I always found the dick homage after beating Berial to be pretty uninteresting
And "Ligggghhht" is indefensible lol
I thought they said that there would be an angel and devil form of every weapon. I'm not certain, but I thought that was confirmed.
R_thanatos
Member
i was planning to not write and just read but now i can't .
"nail the gameplay" ? After HS and enslaved ? i just don't know how can someone be this optimistic ..the thing is they nailed the presentation .. like it or not the presentation with the morphing is pretty much very well done .. but gameplay ?
i've watched 3 vids :
- the start with the camera that spot dante in the street ( the orange looking part finishing in the chapel )
- the night club
- Another one with the bridge and the chain that dante cut ..
^^ sorry about the descriptions but i don't plan to look for story in those vids since i don't have an overall context.
On the gameplay side i saw nothing .. in term of fluidity, combo and the like ..in term of platforming i've seen NOthing ... For a serie that is supposed to be action heavy ..the gameplay part is a total joke.
By nothing i mean it ...Some moves were similar to what was in the previous games in the franchise but that's it.
I wish i could try it to see if my fears are valid or not ..but no demo (yet).. this is a total shame ...
HyperCubed4
Member
something fill your dark soul something something
I think the "don't critique unless you've played it" argument is fair if we're talking about a new IP. Devil May Cry has an existing fanbase and they should be allowed to criticize a game that is much different than the other games in the series. They are used to a certain Dante, certain aesthetics, certain whatever.
I have only played Devil May Cry 3 and a little bit of Devil May Cry 4. Dante always seemed to be like a character who wasn't to be taken seriously. He had a devil may care attitude (pun intended) and wasn't someone who tried to be badass.
For the life of me, I can't find a picture of Dante shrugging his shoulders, with his face being replaced by the Awesome Face, so you'll have to imagine it (also, my Photoshop trial expired and I can't be bothered to get Photoshop again). That's how I picture DMC 3 Dante. He acts like, "OH WELL, time to fight some demons! Man, this sure is wacky!" I never felt like he was a badass character, just sort of silly. Ninja Theory look like they are taking Dante way too seriously, trying to make him look all badass.
That's my problem with him. Capcom probably intended for DMC 1-4 Dante to be badass, but the crappy writing made him seem like a parody or something in that vein. Sort of like a movie that's so bad, it's good.
The impressions so have been very posititive so far. Everyone who played it has enjoyed it.
from the other thread -
So yeah, NT seems to have delivered thus far. You can keep holding up Enslaved and HS, but they've far exceeded the combat and technical aspects of those games.
Mentaiko_Allergy
Member
U mad as hell ain't cha?
Anyway, I agree with the OP's video for the most part and I can see why you would think they don't respect OG Dante as a character with Tameem's past quotes about OG Dante being 'uncool' and being laughed out of a bar at tokyo and other dumb shit that had been said. But realize that it was Tameem saying this shit and not NT as a whole. So we can't assume all of NT thinks this way.
Then it feels weird that we haven't seen a gauntletfor the angel form. I hope its a Greaves style weapon where it's a faster weapon base on delivering lightning fast kicks than slow punches like the Eryx.
Also those are just a few impressions. There are other impressions I have seen which have been fairly negative too. It's premature to say that NT has "delivered" on anything yet.
Also those are just a few impressions. There are other impressions I have seen which have been fairly negative too. It's premature to say that NT has "delivered" on anything yet.
Post them then. And I said thus far. They still got more work to do.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Cool video that I agreed with
Though the reason I subscribed was due to your Volgin and Solidus videos
edit: OH GOD the battle rages on in another thread
Though the reason I subscribed was due to your Volgin and Solidus videos
edit: OH GOD the battle rages on in another thread
Matt2thefuture
Member
Dante was lame in DMC2 they made him cool again in 3. If this doesn't work their just go back.
This video also thinks that appeasing to fans is bad cause it's like one foot in, one foot out..yet they show footage of DMC4. In DMC4, Dante was an after thought to appease fan backlash from Nero. You could tell in Devil May cry 4 his levels were added last minute, they were just rehashes of Neros.
Dante has had 4 games. A reboot was needed to feel fresh. It may fail or it may be cool but all this hate is unfounded, game isn't even out yet give it a chance.
This video also thinks that appeasing to fans is bad cause it's like one foot in, one foot out..yet they show footage of DMC4. In DMC4, Dante was an after thought to appease fan backlash from Nero. You could tell in Devil May cry 4 his levels were added last minute, they were just rehashes of Neros.
Dante has had 4 games. A reboot was needed to feel fresh. It may fail or it may be cool but all this hate is unfounded, game isn't even out yet give it a chance.
NoirVisage
Banned
are you from bizzaro land? You warped reality so thoroughly there, ninja theory ONLY got this gig because of Alex jones and who ever he's friends with at NT. Ninja theory are NOT story geniuses, they're strength has lay somewhat in characters and acting, and pretty mch stopped there, their art has always been oversaturated garish technicolor vomit..its their thing.
R_thanatos
Member
So why does the demo takes so long to come out , then ... I will believe it when i could play it or from more reliable sources since most , if not all of them didn't write about the glaring problems HS & ES had.
Loudness would like a word with you.
And that's not something I see as a negative. 80's action flicks were good, unpretentious fun.
BeautifulMemory
Member
Is this something you have posted before? What's the time frame, around/post-E3?
Sent a PM.
Lucent
Member
Yeah. I don't think it's right to say they don't care about DMC just because of what they're doing. A lot of the video is opinionated. It's true that Ninja Theory changed their vision of their Dante because of fans bickering, but everything else, for the most part, is just an opinion. There is no true definition of cool or badass to me. There are many ways to pull these off.
This being said, I do want a DMC5 after this. Nero proved to be an awesome character, too.
BeautifulMemory
Member
With what magic did you find it :0
KingItachi
Member
Care to explain.
Interesting vid Hyperbit, from all the media out for this game it has not changed my stance on it.
Google-fu!
Hey didn't you say you were gonna do a Vamp video, Hyperbit
Wait, is that guy in MGS:R actually Vamp?
Mentaiko_Allergy
Member
They could go back if this fails (lord knows I want them to) but I really think they want this to succeed so they can continue their outsourcing strategy.
I can agree with that. I felt like enemies were designed around Nero as well. DMC4 was great, it just needed more time in the oven. I can't agree that the hate is unfounded. No one asked for this reboot. The initial reveal of nu-Dante was terrible (a viriginia slims smoking Dante, I mean really). Capcom flip flopping about if this is cannon, reimaging, rebooting, or whatever. The main offender is the 30 fps and unreal engine. All previous games were 60 frames (even DMC2). It's a step backwards. The series should have stayed dormant until a proper entry could have been made IMO.
BeautifulMemory
Member
Google-fu!
I couldn't find it!
I could be wrong, but no that's not Vamp, it's a new character
Amazing Video.
It's pretty weird that Tameemi Antoniades changed his vision on Dante just like that under the pressure from fans and Capcom, I wonder if the Story even got changed too, we migh end with an abomination of a story and characters.
I'd love to note that Heavenly sword writers (iirc) are Rhianna Pratchett, Andy Serkis and Tameem Antoniades, Rhianna don't work with them anymore, Andy is not on DmC, and the only one here is Tameem, so yeah we will get shitty written here.
Also Vergil, I feel he will be even worse than Dino, he is just nothing like the original.
It's pretty weird that Tameemi Antoniades changed his vision on Dante just like that under the pressure from fans and Capcom, I wonder if the Story even got changed too, we migh end with an abomination of a story and characters.
I'd love to note that Heavenly sword writers (iirc) are Rhianna Pratchett, Andy Serkis and Tameem Antoniades, Rhianna don't work with them anymore, Andy is not on DmC, and the only one here is Tameem, so yeah we will get shitty written here.
Also Vergil, I feel he will be even worse than Dino, he is just nothing like the original.
At one point he says Ninja Theory has no respect for the original DMC games, that they think it was a stupid action franchise with a terrible story that's holding back the medium. They feel their Dante is better and that their game is better.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
One of the points I agree with him on is that he preferred the original reveal to what Dante is now.
I also think the new redesign was less offensive initially than the current one is now pretending to be the old character every now and then
I like the old Dante for the same reason I like Gene in God Hand. I always viewed them as just analogs for the player. They're simple one note characters that are just having fun in their absurd circumstances, which I think shows through not only in cutscenes but also their animations and movesets as well.
and to me that's always been the perfect kind of character for a game that's all about encouraging the player to experiment with fighting in flamboyant and flashy ways. Their personalities perfectly compliment the games they are in.
I didn't like new dante initially because he lacked that quality, then I liked him even less when they tried to shoehorn that personality into his redesign, but still remains absent in all other aspects of the game besides the cutscenes.
LightofRohan
Member
Interesting. I prefer him to the older dante.
Has OP ever taken a character design/development class? Understand anything about what goes into designing a character? Or is this just surface level petty hate for the reboot?
Has OP ever taken a character design/development class? Understand anything about what goes into designing a character? Or is this just surface level petty hate for the reboot?
The latter.
Have you? (not to say that attendance of a character design course is even an accurate barometer).
His opinion is as legitimate as yours except he did the work to create a video.
Generally, it takes more of a broad and informed background to be able to critique something properly rather than just to appreciate it (or be indifferent to it).
LightofRohan
Member
I haven't watch the video and I'm passing judgement.
That's what we do here right? Not actually trying something and judging it anyways?
I don't understand why people bitch about something like this. I've read comments like this over and over again.
It comes off as the most naggy, nit-picking complaint ever. It's press footage, maybe they were playing a debug version, or Easy Automatic, or something like that.
Hah. Games journalism tells me otherwise.
Either you dislike something or you like something. Often times, people don't understand the nuances of why. The OP felt he did, so he created a video. He doesn't need a background in game design to do that.
If you watched a few seconds of the video and posted that you thought it was shitty, then sure. Who cares? But instead you wanted him to legitimize his opinion through game development courses, which is silly.
Not sure why you decided to throw that out there because it ultimately weakens your main point with snarkiness.
BeautifulMemory
Member
Well, the equalivent would be you watching the video and give your feedback, since the OP has followed the media releases of the game
He never said he was absolutely right or he can't change his mind in the future.