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Why do job-hoppers get bigger raises than loyal employees?
- Thread starter Makai
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Lord Fagan
Junior Member
They lie about their old salary. Current employees can't pull that trick.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
This kinda sums it up.
Your new salary at a new company isn't based on your old salary.
The reason is really just that companies often have to pay more to entice new hires and they often don't have to pay more to keep current employees.
But the current employee is more valuable than the new hire. Current employee has specialized knowledge and doesn't have to get up-to-speed.
Dr. Feel Good
Banned
Background check verifies prior salaries and can actually be a deal breaker for most job offers. If you lie they will most likely know.
It is an inefficiency in HR practices. People are not really rational about these kinds of things. People job hop all the time to grow their salaries faster, and it is a pretty commonly known strategy. When a strategy improves a person's salary without really improving their inherent abilities, you know something is wrong.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
You have the 6 month plan.
mugurumakensei
Member
Companies are only going to spend what they have to which is why trickle down economics fails. Companies aren't going to pay their employees more money unless they absolutely have to. Otherwise, they'll just pocket the tax as extra profit. Thus. the only way to get a raise is to be so valuable that you can hedge bets and get a new job offer to use as leverage for some intense salary negotiation or actually change jobs.
GoldenEye 007
Member
Well a reference check maybe. Salary wouldn't come up on a background check.
As for the OP's question, I don't know. Maybe because it takes more incentive to get a worker to flip companies or a situation at the new company necessitates a sure thing when they find a candidate they like? Only thing I can think of. As for why existing employees generally get screwed over on raises - even if performing well? Shit upper administration I guess that really don't value their existing employees?
I spent almost two years at a place and didn't see a raise. (Yes, I know that's thoroughly bitching territory.) I was then let go. In my job hunt, I'm still getting offers for more than I was making. Replacements are being brought on at the same or higher salaries of the existing employees too at my old place. I feel bad for some of the people left behind.
Being loyal means you ain't going no place. Employers are confident they got you on lockdown.
Job hoppers don't come with that guarantee. If they're competent and know it, they make sure they as best compensated as they can get before moving on.
It's all in the game, and anyone that isn't tied down can do it if they're good at their job and don't mind periodic job hunting.
Job hoppers don't come with that guarantee. If they're competent and know it, they make sure they as best compensated as they can get before moving on.
It's all in the game, and anyone that isn't tied down can do it if they're good at their job and don't mind periodic job hunting.
NCR Redslayer
NeoGAF's Vegeta
*takes note*
Angelus Errare
Banned
Because you're loyal. You'll ask for a raise, they'll explain why they can't give you one. You'll say "I understand" and continue to bust your ass. They know you aren't looking for other jobs, you're completely comfortable in your current position and they will continue to take advantage of your skillset.
That is not the point. The point is that there is incentive for people to job hop, even for good employees, but there really shouldn't be.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
At the end of the day the business is looking for workers and they probably don't want to spend a while finding a hire. If you can negotiate well you can get a land and a better pay. Ball is always in the interviewee's court.
mugurumakensei
Member
It won't be in your background check. They can only get it from a reference(if you gave the reference permission to reveal salary info), HR at your current workplace(unless you tell the HR to not reveal salary information), or pay stubs.
NYR
Member
Companies have no loyalty. You are a number. A number in a budget. A number which you stay for, not a number they need to keep you for.
Being Loyal to a profit driven company is like keeping a pet tiger in your backyard, then saying It is loyal because you took care of it for years, and then crying when it rips your arm off. It only acted on its base instincts. Do the same for you and be loyal to yourself and yourself alone.
Being Loyal to a profit driven company is like keeping a pet tiger in your backyard, then saying It is loyal because you took care of it for years, and then crying when it rips your arm off. It only acted on its base instincts. Do the same for you and be loyal to yourself and yourself alone.
Yep, that information is easy enough to get.
What you CAN do is embellish a bit about your experience.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
I think it's actually just correlation. People who have the freedom to just hop jobs that frequently and not seem undedicated are probably 1) very ambitious people that are 2) in skilled, contractor-like jobs (such as programming) in 3) volatile, but lucrative industries like tech.
Just told my supervisor that I would be leaving in a month for a new job that pays 20k more and has bonuses and other perks. He immediately started trying to figure out if he could afford to match it or not. Made me wonder why he didn't give me any sort of raise over the last couple of years? I am not staying.
mugurumakensei
Member
Nah, it's a natural consequence of Capitalism and a job market that forever favors employers. If your goal is to make money, you want to minimize spending and maximize revenue. Not freely giving out raises means you are minimizing cost. However, when making a new hire that you desperately need, that's the point when it is at least a little in favor of the employee. They need to entice the employee, and one of those ways is a bigger paycheck. Sometimes, it may be a better vacation package or some other incentive other than money. A valuable employee who is looking elsewhere can often get a raise by getting a job offer from elsewhere. However, again before pulling that trigger, you better be damn sure you are truly valuable to the company or truly be ready to change jobs.
fredrancour
Member
I've always interpreted it as people typically fear change and confrontation, so employers can get away with giving inadequate raises over time because relatively few workers will demand raises or leave. A new hire can get the actual market rate.
No clue if that's accurate though. I am not a business expert.
There are probably benefits to retaining people long-term and minimizing training costs/ opportunity costs of bringing new people up to speed. I have no idea how many companies attempt to quantify that instead of just thinking, "gotta keep payroll down!"
No clue if that's accurate though. I am not a business expert.
There are probably benefits to retaining people long-term and minimizing training costs/ opportunity costs of bringing new people up to speed. I have no idea how many companies attempt to quantify that instead of just thinking, "gotta keep payroll down!"
old
Member
Because they're exploiting salary inversion. Job hop every 2-3 years. Pensions are a thing of the past. Your 401K goes with you. No reason to stay. You don't get what you deserve. You get what you have the leverage to negotiate for. As the economy improves, desirable employees can leverage higher salaries as competition for their services increases.
Also, as just a slight benefit. The longer you stay at a company they bigger the file they build on every little mistake and mistep you made. Giving them the paper trail to justify firing you or to hide that they fired you for reason X when they really fired you for reason Y. Go to a new company and you get a clean sheet. Extra protection for unemployment benefits and job security.
Also, as just a slight benefit. The longer you stay at a company they bigger the file they build on every little mistake and mistep you made. Giving them the paper trail to justify firing you or to hide that they fired you for reason X when they really fired you for reason Y. Go to a new company and you get a clean sheet. Extra protection for unemployment benefits and job security.
MultiJhonny
Banned
Job hoppers depending on the industry also know they are good at what they do and are highly sought after. So they tend to go from one place to another for simply a higher salary
loyalty isn't rewarded in today's workplace, it's seen as a sign of weakness.
if you're loyal, you're just another dependent the company has to worry about. If you're a hard charging mustang, the company will see your value and pay to keep you, or at least keep you out of the hands of the competitors.
companies won't be loyal to you, and don't value your loyalty. this isn't 1950, and you're not getting a pension either.
if you're loyal, you're just another dependent the company has to worry about. If you're a hard charging mustang, the company will see your value and pay to keep you, or at least keep you out of the hands of the competitors.
companies won't be loyal to you, and don't value your loyalty. this isn't 1950, and you're not getting a pension either.
I got a 60k raise on my new job. Companies pay for experience. If you stayed in the same company forever that doesn't exactly say "amazing employee" for all they know you just cruised along. It is better to be exposed to a couple different companies and learn all you can before you go to a really good one with a damn nice salary you can live on.
edit: You can also renegotiate your current pay if you go to whoever is responsible for that and explain to them you got a better offer which you will take unless they match it. Thats when you find out if you are disposable or indispensible.
edit: You can also renegotiate your current pay if you go to whoever is responsible for that and explain to them you got a better offer which you will take unless they match it. Thats when you find out if you are disposable or indispensible.
Elfforkusu
Member
Ultimately, it's a cost cutting measure. It's an incredibly stupid one, but whatareyougonnado.
Except move on to a new job.
Except move on to a new job.
You don't even need to lie. Just don't give your (prospective) new employer your current salary.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
It actually is possible to get decent raises when at the same company - it requires getting a bunch of promotions though and jumping up to higher and higher job titles. Especially if your company tries to stay around market value for those higher positions.
Raises while staying in the same general type of role/responsibility though without a title change? Then yes, jumping to another company can often earn you a much bigger raise. Especially if you have multiple offers and can leverage that in your salary negotiation.
Raises while staying in the same general type of role/responsibility though without a title change? Then yes, jumping to another company can often earn you a much bigger raise. Especially if you have multiple offers and can leverage that in your salary negotiation.
deltatheta
Member
Believe it or not, capitalism isn't a perfect system and there are tons of inefficiencies.
Elfforkusu
Member
I check all 3 of the boxes on your list (well, I guess #1 is always debatable), and I can tell you it is not just correlation. The same dynamic is true in the tech industry.
Clockwork
Member
Some companies even with a role change (if done internally) limit the salary increase to a certain % of your current wage. This creates a situation where if promoted to that role you end up making less than market value.
It's even worse when the role change is more than a simple step up in hierarchy. As an example I applied for a position internally like this. I met all of the qualifications. I was granted an interview. In the end what happened? I got told that because they were limited by how much of an increase they could provide it would be unfair to me to be offered the position since they couldn't compensate me appropriately. Not because of lack of skills or experience (I had been doing similar work without the title/salary for some time).
It's ridiculous.
Good companies do prioritize retention. People don't leave Google to get raises elsewhere.
Most companies are poorly managed, because most people don't really know how to manage, and MBA programs were designed for managing staffs made up of unskilled labor, so almost everything they say is wrong in an environment where you're mostly managing professionals.
Seriously, if you think this is the case then apply for a new job. You'll get a counter-offer or you'll leave and the company you go to will pay you more because you active seeked out more money and got it. That's why job hopping gets you paid more. Otherwise you weren't that much to begin with.
Strangelove77
Member
"When she sees you'll do anything she says, she's bound to respect you."
-Milhouse
-Milhouse
GoldenEye 007
Member
Didn't Google get busted for collusion, though, along with other tech companies to keep salaries lower and competition down?
Silicon Valley, including Google, is full of job-hoppers. That's why they signed anti-poaching agreements with other companies.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/business...ny_how_amazon_google_and_others_stack_up.html
gutter_trash
Banned
job loyalty is for saps
all my huge pay boosts occurred when I changed jobs
all my huge pay boosts occurred when I changed jobs
People job hop from google to other places all the time.
Exactly, don't wait to get a raise give yourself a raise.
entremet
Member
Yep. People, stop being loyal if you're an employee. These companies are looking after the bottom line and you should be too.
Lifetime employment ended in the 70s.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
Who reveals their past salaries??
MarzipaNMOS
Member
edit: answered in an edit of the post i quoted
people who dont research salaries for the position they are applying for and want to be screwed over.
Almost exactly the same for me. I turned in my two weeks last Thursday for a 20k raise. They suddenly tried to match my new salary and I told them to try, knowing full well they couldn't get close enough, and they couldn't. Plus it's a more valuable skill I'll be gaining in the new place anyway so they would have had to go beyond to keep me. They are running around now trying to figure out how to complete upcoming client work and all I can do is shrug and say "Good luck." In my head I think, "If you promoted me two levels to where I should be then I probably wouldn't have been looking in the first place."
entremet
Member
During salary negotiation they usually ask, although they really can't. People get fooled by this.
I recently shifted careers from healthcare to mobile development. It was going to happen eventually, but it was accelerated when my manager at the hospital didn't try very hard (some wimpy email to HR) to get me a raise. I was the lowest paid employee in my department, but the system clearly showed that I had the highest output of work.
I got offered a new job in a field that I'm actually passionate about that paid more. When I put in my two weeks, my manager asked if he wanted me to see if they could get me more money. I gave him a very clear "are you fucking kidding me look" and said it didn't matter even if they could match. He then had the nerve to, half jokingly, say "well this is perfect timing" (he's dealing with some issues in another area he's over).
I felt somewhat bad for my coworkers, but have no sympathy for my manager. It's crazy how short-sighted some companies are.
I got offered a new job in a field that I'm actually passionate about that paid more. When I put in my two weeks, my manager asked if he wanted me to see if they could get me more money. I gave him a very clear "are you fucking kidding me look" and said it didn't matter even if they could match. He then had the nerve to, half jokingly, say "well this is perfect timing" (he's dealing with some issues in another area he's over).
I felt somewhat bad for my coworkers, but have no sympathy for my manager. It's crazy how short-sighted some companies are.
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