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[GoldenEye 007]

So I just did the math on my own situation. Now, I do work in the public sector, so my salaries comparatively suck to the private sector. At least vacation time, pensions, great health benefits, and public worker loan forgiveness kind of makes up for it.

But I started working professionally in 2011 and I graduated in 2012. From that first professional job to the job I am starting soon, my salary has gone up just over 50%. That's within 4 total years and just around two years each at the last two organizations.

I'm hoping for 2-4 years at the next place, which would allow me another relatively big jump once I can get into assistant/director/manager stuff.

 

[Shadoken]

It actually makes sense , if you are stuck in the same company with the same pay. That means you havent even bothered to try to find a new job and assess your current market value. OR that you have tried and you arent really getting any good offers. Which means your current employer is paying you the right amount.

Unless you are incompetent at your job , the company would rather just keep you. The company wins either way.

The company doesnt have to assess what you are worth and change your pay. You are expected to assess your own worth.


Salary isnt the be all end all for a Job , there are also Benefits,Work Culture,Potential Bonuses and Job security. You could get a much better package at a Startup but it could also all crumble in a year or so. Having a well established company on your resume is worth more than a startup that boomed for a few years that people might forget about.

 

[Aselith]

ok, but then you look at opportunity cost when those employees leave. As I stated before in the thread, you now have recruiting time, interviewing time (literal and downtime from appointment to appoint), once you finally find someone, you have a negotiation period, background check perioid, they usually give two weeks notice to their current employer. Then you have HR paperwork, etc all the while the position sat unfilled. Meanwhile once the person starts it takes at least 3 months if not longer for the person to be comfortable in the position. All of this is time and money lost because the company wouldn't just give the first employee a raise.

Its very short sighted imo to just say hire someone and never give them a raise.


edit: I also forgot, recruiter fees! Recruiters charge 20-25% of the first year salary! you can't sit there and tell me it wouldnt be cheaper to just give your current employee a raise.

I think they just bank on employees not looking to leave. A lot of employees aren't looking actively until they have to. I'd imagine it depends a lot on how competitive the field is though.

 

[deltatheta]

What would be his incentive to offer you a pay raise other than your basic cost of living adjustment? If you give employees raises just because on the regular, you're just training them to expect raises regularly, which means it's a problem when you don't, and ballooning your own budget.

If you pay high performing employees at the same level that they could get by moving to another company, they won't leave. Losing skilled people is really expensive because you'll end up paying the same amount anyway when you have to replace the person and then you'll have months of downtime as the new employee gets up to speed. The effect is much more exaggerated in highly creative or skilled fields where the right people can literally make or break a company.

The problem is never giving raises is a short term gain because you get the skilled people for a little bit of time while they look for another job. In most situations, people will pick the cheaper option even if it's a false economy, especially if the drawback is nebulous and hard to measure. No one gets blamed when skilled people leave, but if you think about it, it's clearly the fault of HR and management who made a policy of underpaying their employees.

 

[Concept17]

If you've proven you're good at your current position and haven't tried for a raise or a promotion, why pay you more? If you know new hires are being paid more, ask for a raise.

Spoiler

not always that simple I know

 

[deltatheta]

If you've proven you're good at your current position and haven't tried for a raise or a promotion, why pay you more? If you know new hires are being paid more, ask for a raise.

Spoiler

not always that simple I know

I was just thinking about this. The social dynamics are kind of like Schrodinger's cat. Unless your manager is clueless (which is well within the realm of possibility), they have a pretty good idea of what you should be paid. And you will also usually be keenly aware if you're being underpaid, even if you don't interview elsewhere because that information is pretty readily available. But once you open the box by asking for a raise, the answer may be yes if the manager is empowered to do so, behaves logically, and isn't an asshole. But the answer may be no of the converse of any of these is true.

Getting a no could be a career damaging move because they're likely to realize you'll be leaving for greener pastures sooner or later. The logical next step is to hire your replacement or find another way to eliminate your position in preparation for your departure.

Spoiler

Yeah, I've been re-playing Virtue's Last Reward.

 

[Kieli]

If you've proven you're good at your current position and haven't tried for a raise or a promotion, why pay you more? If you know new hires are being paid more, ask for a raise.

Spoiler

not always that simple I know

A lot of posts in this thread where the company cannot match the raises from the other company. Even though in some instances they didn't even know how much the raise was or the raise was small (and they still couldn't afford).

 

[Slo]

No, not at the moment anyway. Did for a very short amount of time when I was contracted to work directly for a large US construction firm. Prior to the oil price starting to go south I used to do Oil and Gas (2009-2013).

I currently cover Forensic Technology and Cyber Security markets.

If I myself had showed "loyalty" like many people are speaking of in this thread to my employer when I was doing oil and gas hires then I would have been made redundant in the last 12 months like many if my ex colleagues were.

So that brings me to another thing... If you see signs that your company or the industry you work in is going south, do what you can to get the fuck out of there before ou go down with it. If a company is struggling then they will not be loyal to you, they will get rid of you at the first opportunity they have in order to keep themselves afloat.



Your friends can leave the company any moment, then what? Your company could change it's policies/culture if new bosses come in, then what? Your company could even be acquired or merge with another firm in your field and that can cause a whole host of things to change.

Take care of 2 things and 2 things only:

- you continuing to grow a and improve in your field of work
- your paycheck continuing to grow on proportion to the above.

Friends at work are a bonus and should only be seen as such.

Apologies if I'm coming across as being very direct but I've seen many people in your situation before dismiss me when I approach them for the very reasons you are stating, only to come crawling back to me 12 months later asking for help because the situation has changed so drastically. You need to be in control of your destiny, not the other way around.

I love posts like this. Like it or not, everyone is a mercenary. Everyone. You're selling your time to your employer, and your employer is only going to be a paying customer as long as it suits them.

Take control of your career, don't expect your employer to hold your hand and lead you to a successful life. They don't care nearly as much about you as you care about you.

 

[legend166]

I could probably make a little more if I moved companies but here in Australia there's still advantages for the employee to stay long term. Each year of service means more redundancy pay if you do get made redundant, and after 10 years you get long service leave (2 months leave).

The fact that I've been with the same company since I finished uni means I'll have lung service leave at age 31 if I stick around.

At the same time, you really just have to have the balls to stick up for yourself when it comes to your salary.