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Why do people like Dungeon Crawlers?
- Thread starter hatchx
- Start date
InsaneZero
Member
I like dungeon crawlers since it's a genre that forces you to stay on your toes. The main point of these games is the delicate balancing act between exploring the unknown and managing your resources so you don't die while doing so. You have to know when you can keep going and when you need to go back, all while doing your best to fend off enemy encounters and avoid traps so that you can try to make as much progress as you can. The danger of failure is always present, as a single miscalculation can end you outright, but that also means that there is a greater feeling of satisfaction as you continue to make steady progress through a dungeon's lower depths (even if said progress is only a few steps forward).
And Etrian Odyssey's mapping element is actual tangible evidence of my progress, which is why I think it's fantastic.
And Etrian Odyssey's mapping element is actual tangible evidence of my progress, which is why I think it's fantastic.
kunonabi
Member
I loved it in the first few games. P3 and P4 dungeons are crap though.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
This could be said about so many games in so many genres. It's a value judgement and I think it boils down to how much a type of game engages someone's imagination and how much they feel compelled to give it. For dungeon crawlers, it seems traversal is a major roadblock for you, but that's of course only part of the package. Where you feel the pacing is slow and tedious, others feel tension and discovery. It's just a matter of taste.
I don't get the genre. I love dungeons but not if they're randomly generated hallways with meaningless loot in them. Stuff like Dark Souls, Morrowind, etc give you this amazing sense that you're intruding where no mortal was ever meant to go. But when people cite exploration as a reason to like random dungeon crawlers, I really don't understand. Something about knowing a place is being made by a computer kills any sense of exploration I might have since there is no story being told, the rooms are just the output of an algorithim and have nothing to do with each other.
The reason is simple, regular RPG level design is close to 0, sure the world is beautiful but it's usually boring as fuck to explore.
Good/decent dungeon crawlers are exciting to explore and offer a good variety of traps, puzzles and level effects. Bad one not so much, but it's generally still better than your regular RPG.
As for the combat/customisation, it varies just as much as your usual RPG, sometimes it's good (EO or Dungeon Travelers 2 for example), sometimes it's mediocre, sometimes it's decent enough.
The only thing you'll lose over a more regular RPG is scenery in general and honestly, i couldn't give less of a damn.
Good/decent dungeon crawlers are exciting to explore and offer a good variety of traps, puzzles and level effects. Bad one not so much, but it's generally still better than your regular RPG.
As for the combat/customisation, it varies just as much as your usual RPG, sometimes it's good (EO or Dungeon Travelers 2 for example), sometimes it's mediocre, sometimes it's decent enough.
The only thing you'll lose over a more regular RPG is scenery in general and honestly, i couldn't give less of a damn.
The Horror the horror
Banned
Most of the ones I've played sucked, mainly due to the awful characters. It's like being stuck in a tight elevator with a bunch of assholes.
Prototype Viktor
Member
Because we like playing in the MUD
radios shipping overview
Member
The idea that any genre could be antiquated is kind of shitty. Controls can be bad, UI can be poorly designed, internal logic can be illogical, framerate can suck, games written for more powerful hardware can be better at large-scale experiences. Genres may fall out of fashion, but fun games don't become antiquated. Focus on what you like or don't like about a particular game.
randomengine
Banned
Being somewhat Asberger's, I find methodical puzzle-solving to be the apex of enjoyment. Games like Picross scratch that itch so hard. I love the idea of methodically revealing things about a room or dungeon. You may not just have the kind of brain that enjoys these types of games.
Edit: If you think about it RPGs in general revolve around the idea of slow, methodical progress. If you do like RPGs maybe you have just played the ones that are RPG-lite or mask the progression around an action or action-adventure story.
ShinMaruku
Member
If the dungeons allow the great battle system to shine, and give you things to find very few games come close to that type of exuberance from me, only games like DFO (Which is a kind of a fighting game rpg dungeon crawler hybrid) and spectalce fighters can get out of me
Because most major RPGs have reduced dungeons to a linear crawl with laughably easy puzzles and healing options counted in gallons. Dungeon crawlers strip computer-game RPGs back to the stuff I love about them, which is exploration, resource management, loot and honing a party into a decent fighting force against major opposition. That and the sense that every step could be your last, there's a risk/reward element in knowing when to call it quits, head back to town and regroup.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Is that Shining in the Dark, or Shining the Holy Ark?
Yeah I don't like roguelikes and random dungeons either, but not all dungeon crawlers are random.
Is Dark Souls considered a dungeon crawler?
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
They're more satisfying with the rewards than Destiny.
CaptainGyro
Banned
what are some other games considered dungeon crawlers besides Etrian Odyssey and Grimrock games? I am not even sure if I have played a game yet that would be considered one
Might and Magic 1-10, Lands of Lore (these should be on GOG if you wanna check it out, M&M7 and 8 are great, LoL 2 was one of my first games ever)
radios shipping overview
Member
Most of the Wizardry games, Icewind Dale 1&2, Temple of Elemental Evil, Shining in the Darkness, Baroque, Evolution (DC), Elminage, Mysterious Dungeon and any true Roguelike, Rengoku (PSP). And yeah, Demon's Souls.
Deified Data
Banned
I like the idea of lurking through dungeons in theory, but like OP I dislike how many dungeon crawlers arrange their dungeons as plain, geometric labyrinths. Everything's an endless corridor with the occasional gimmicky puzzle or hazard tile. I'd rather explore an environment that has some personality or sense of purpose to it. So as far as dungeon crawlers go, let's say I prefer your SMTIVs to your Strange Journeys.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
But what about ToeJam and Earl
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
It's already been said but randomized dungeons suck, Dungeon Crawlers like EO and Grimrock have amazingly designed dungeons.
IdreamofHIME
Member
That dream if a sword with a +1 stat of the one you're currently rolling with.
For first person tile-based dungeon crawlers, the most famous examples are Wizardry, The Bard's Tale, Dungeon Master, Eye of the Beholder, and earlier Might and Magic games. A good portion of the Megami Tensei series also has dungeon crawler elements, the most recent examples being Persona Q and Shin Megami Tensei IV. Other dungeon crawlers from Japan includes Elminage, various spinoffs of Wizardry, some games in the Shining series, and pretty much everything from Experience Inc.
CaptainGyro
Banned
Oh ok never mind then. I have played plenty of dungeon crawlers.
My reading comprehension sucks and at first it seemed like people were only mentioning Grimrock and Etrian Odyssey( haven't played either one) , so I thought maybe some of the games I played weren't technically officially classified as dungeon crawlers.
After re-reading the thread I can see other games I have played were mentioned though
Tempesta di Fuoco
Banned
I like dungeon crawlers as long as they are not the dogshit boring first person turn-based ones.
AcademicSaucer
Member
There is nothing wrong in not liking persona´s dungeon crawling
True roguelikes are a subset of dungeon crawlers.
I agree with OP, I hate maze-like level design that is randomly generated or might as well be randomly generated and I hate being in dark, narrow, indoor locations in games for too long.
Although I did enjoy Diablo III and Reaper of Souls but only until I completed the story mode. I found the bounty hunts and Nephalem Rifts to be incredibly repetitive and tedious. I don't know how people can play the post-game content for hundreds of hours.
I even hated the dungeons, caves and essentially every interior location in Bethesda's RPGs, especially those dungeons that are three or four levels deep. Just thinking about those Dwemer ruins from Skyrim and especially the Blackreach complex is enough to give me nightmares.
Although I did enjoy Diablo III and Reaper of Souls but only until I completed the story mode. I found the bounty hunts and Nephalem Rifts to be incredibly repetitive and tedious. I don't know how people can play the post-game content for hundreds of hours.
I even hated the dungeons, caves and essentially every interior location in Bethesda's RPGs, especially those dungeons that are three or four levels deep. Just thinking about those Dwemer ruins from Skyrim and especially the Blackreach complex is enough to give me nightmares.
The only jrpgs I like anymore are ones with interesting battle systems or ones that offer team customization and leveling. After years of MMOs, I really enjoy games that let you explore team dynamics in ways other than "these characters deal damage and these characters heal". What I really like is games that allow proper tanks, damage dealers, healers, and support, and huge bonus if position matters in combat but those games aren't very common.
Etrian Odyssey meets many of these criteria. Tanking does not work 100% of the time, but you make your defender pretty reliable at mitigating damage. There are attacks and debuffs which other characters can build on. The bind system is really cool, and effects enemies in natural ways (binding feet makes it so enemies can't flee, lowers evasion, and disables attacks that use legs, such as kicks).
The leveling system is also decent in EO. It's not my favorite, and it's pretty slow with the rewards, but I'm a sucker for a skill tree.
The game world itself is less important to me than the combat dynamics, but I do enjoy the maze aspect of EO. I also like the removal of most story elements, because I just don't give a shit about the story in most games anymore. I'd rather just cut to the chase and spend more time playing.
Etrian Odyssey meets many of these criteria. Tanking does not work 100% of the time, but you make your defender pretty reliable at mitigating damage. There are attacks and debuffs which other characters can build on. The bind system is really cool, and effects enemies in natural ways (binding feet makes it so enemies can't flee, lowers evasion, and disables attacks that use legs, such as kicks).
The leveling system is also decent in EO. It's not my favorite, and it's pretty slow with the rewards, but I'm a sucker for a skill tree.
The game world itself is less important to me than the combat dynamics, but I do enjoy the maze aspect of EO. I also like the removal of most story elements, because I just don't give a shit about the story in most games anymore. I'd rather just cut to the chase and spend more time playing.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
Designed Dungeons vs randomized, they are similar but I can't stand randomized dungeons at all.
Chet Rippo
Member
Is not the whole point of a labyrinth is to be claustrophobic? Being on edge and not knowing what awaits you around the corner or behind a door is rather thrilling. Sure it may be slow paced, but that's part of it's charm. You plan and work hard to reach the bottom of the dungeon, which makes it all the more rewarding.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Roguelikes are a particular kind of dungeon crawler, one defined by randomized dungeons, permadeath, and turn-based combat that takes place on the same grid map as exploration does. Nethack, ADOM, the Mystery Dungeon series, and ZHP are examples of roguelikes.
SuperDowns
Banned
You are making me want to buy this game... great...