Pai Pai Master
Banned
Chromax said:
Other games coming out this time of year are the last reason KOF12 should have stayed far away from retail shelves for the time being. :/
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Why do publishers send their games out to die?
- Thread starter 2 Minutes Turkish
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Other games coming out this time of year are the last reason KOF12 should have stayed far away from retail shelves for the time being. :/
Dreamwriter
Member
Last year all the big holiday titles flopped because they all came out at the same time. Unfortunately, the big publishers didn't learn their lesson - they blamed it on the economy, not the fact that 10 HUGE games coming out at the same time are going to end up selling only a few copies each.
RiotPelaaja
Remedy
There is so much more to this than you might think.
First of all there's, globally, very little interest towards Saboteur. One of the big indicators that publishers and their distributors will look at this the interest that retail has...and if there's little excitement on the retail side that means very few orders and that means its not going to be worth heavily market it. And let's face it, there's games out there, even good ones, that are there just make up the numbers. Its questionable if a large amount of marketing spend would make Saboteur a bigger hit...someone out there has calculated how much it's "worth" spending on this game and how much it realistically can sell. Not every game has to sell a million or even 750k to be "ok" for it's publisher.
Infamous is an interesting example. Everyone knew it's going to be a quality game, but not just how good it would be. So in Europe, retail community wasn't that hyped about the game since the media was a bit unsure about it. Due to this, SCEE opted not to do television advertising for the game in Europe...by the time we all realized what a brilliant game it was, the marketing support wasn't really there.
Before you say it, of course it sucks when great games dont get the support they require. Batman: Arkham Asylum is probably one of those. It's one of the best games I've ever played, but I'm pretty sure most people will look at it as "blaahhh, Batman, comics game boring" no matter how good it is. Then again, the Batman movies have done brilliantly, so who knows.
First of all there's, globally, very little interest towards Saboteur. One of the big indicators that publishers and their distributors will look at this the interest that retail has...and if there's little excitement on the retail side that means very few orders and that means its not going to be worth heavily market it. And let's face it, there's games out there, even good ones, that are there just make up the numbers. Its questionable if a large amount of marketing spend would make Saboteur a bigger hit...someone out there has calculated how much it's "worth" spending on this game and how much it realistically can sell. Not every game has to sell a million or even 750k to be "ok" for it's publisher.
Infamous is an interesting example. Everyone knew it's going to be a quality game, but not just how good it would be. So in Europe, retail community wasn't that hyped about the game since the media was a bit unsure about it. Due to this, SCEE opted not to do television advertising for the game in Europe...by the time we all realized what a brilliant game it was, the marketing support wasn't really there.
Before you say it, of course it sucks when great games dont get the support they require. Batman: Arkham Asylum is probably one of those. It's one of the best games I've ever played, but I'm pretty sure most people will look at it as "blaahhh, Batman, comics game boring" no matter how good it is. Then again, the Batman movies have done brilliantly, so who knows.
SPACECADET
Member
yea more new IP's looking to get attention need to chill with early spring and fall releases and help fill out the year by putting them out late spring through summer.
i can't say it would help or hinder sales. but after killzone and street fighter were out it was another dry spell here. red faction/infamous/prototype helped it a little for me. but now that i've had my fill with them it's been back to arcade titles and older games from a year ago keeping me busy.
i can't say it would help or hinder sales. but after killzone and street fighter were out it was another dry spell here. red faction/infamous/prototype helped it a little for me. but now that i've had my fill with them it's been back to arcade titles and older games from a year ago keeping me busy.
Chittagong
Gold Member
2 Minutes Turkish said:
Actually, the H1 2010 lineup is much better than the sorry 2009 Christmas lineup.
But yeah, I don't get releasing games on the exact same date with a blockbuster either.
A few things:
1) Common wisdom is that releasing a game in the holidays is like getting free marketing. Consumers are actively looking for games (for little Johnny and Nancy), so it takes less marketing dollars to reach consumers. Even though it's a massive cluster-fuck, it still gets a game more (free) attention than it might have during any other release window.
2) However, there's a bit of a "chicken and egg" issue going on. Marketing research "proves" that games sell remarkably better during the holidays; however, games probably sell so well at that time of year because most of the best selling games are all released then. The question is, is it the holidays themselves or is it the huge amount of blockbuster titles that makes it look good from a research perspective? What publishers want to take the risk of breaking the trend?
3) Your game will get mentioned a million and one times by the gaming press as one of the "big holiday releases." Again, the common wisdom is that it's free advertising. Even if you're one game among a dozen, you keep getting mentioned over and over for free.
4) The Saboteur is a brand-new IP. Even if it gets lost in the holiday shuffle, history shows that it probably stands a better chance. Even if the whole "holiday sales boost" idea is tautological, is that a risk worth taking? AFAIK The Saboteur is getting a very late holiday release in order to avoid releasing anywhere near the big guns.
5) Do holiday sales affect M-rated games on non-Wii platforms the same way as E-rated games on a Wii? Probably not. It might be that over time, publishers realize that it's the family-oriented games for family-friendly consoles that sell best during the holidays. For everyone else, they're probably better suited spreading the love throughout the year (GTAIV).
1) Common wisdom is that releasing a game in the holidays is like getting free marketing. Consumers are actively looking for games (for little Johnny and Nancy), so it takes less marketing dollars to reach consumers. Even though it's a massive cluster-fuck, it still gets a game more (free) attention than it might have during any other release window.
2) However, there's a bit of a "chicken and egg" issue going on. Marketing research "proves" that games sell remarkably better during the holidays; however, games probably sell so well at that time of year because most of the best selling games are all released then. The question is, is it the holidays themselves or is it the huge amount of blockbuster titles that makes it look good from a research perspective? What publishers want to take the risk of breaking the trend?
3) Your game will get mentioned a million and one times by the gaming press as one of the "big holiday releases." Again, the common wisdom is that it's free advertising. Even if you're one game among a dozen, you keep getting mentioned over and over for free.
4) The Saboteur is a brand-new IP. Even if it gets lost in the holiday shuffle, history shows that it probably stands a better chance. Even if the whole "holiday sales boost" idea is tautological, is that a risk worth taking? AFAIK The Saboteur is getting a very late holiday release in order to avoid releasing anywhere near the big guns.
5) Do holiday sales affect M-rated games on non-Wii platforms the same way as E-rated games on a Wii? Probably not. It might be that over time, publishers realize that it's the family-oriented games for family-friendly consoles that sell best during the holidays. For everyone else, they're probably better suited spreading the love throughout the year (GTAIV).
tadcalabash
Neo Member
hatchx said:
We can always dream... however Psychonauts, Okami, Grim Fandango, Beyond Good & Evil, Ico, etc. say hello.
Revenue balancing. Shareholders are going to demand that a company as big as EA always have a marquee title for each quarter. Now, when projects get approved maybe Sabateur was never meant to compete in the holiday season. But schedules slip, delays happen, and companies are forced to release games out of the original plan.
Sometimes they just have to. Incorrect scheduling could lead to improper testing arrangements, which lead to the game having a zillion "glitches", and then all they do is try to fix the bugs and not concentrate on the game. It's happened tons of times. Because of this, certain milestones during development aren't hit. Sometimes, developers just don't have any time or money left, simply put. Sure, there are tons of business/marketing/sales ways to look at this, but most problems come from development. It's kind of like what Miyamoto said:
"A delayed game is eventually good. A bad game is always bad," or something akin to that. That's why delays (for games, anyway), usually do gamers well in the end. Usually.
"A delayed game is eventually good. A bad game is always bad," or something akin to that. That's why delays (for games, anyway), usually do gamers well in the end. Usually.
stuburns said:
Agreed, half those games are delay whores. Always pushed back 6months at least once.
As for scheduling. It's because often times business bureaucracy overtakes what is gaming common sense. They don't care about the game doing the absolute best it can, but the company doing the absolute best it can. Which as crazy as it sounds isn't always the samething.(To terribad management anyways)
Different games have different sales expectations. If the publisher is positive that the game doesn't need huge first month sales and the game will sell well long after the initial release month and eventually gets the wanted sales result. If this is the case then it doesn't matter wheter it goes against huge game releases or not.
SuperDowns
Banned
Because everyone wants to be Assassin's Creed.
Really? Games that aren't new tend to be forgotten.CiSTM said:
How far can word of mouth take a game that isn't successful to begin with?
In whichever case, going against big games does matter, because if the game is good enough to generate word of mouth popularity, then it could have generated far more if more people bought it originally instead of the big game.
Huge English fart, but I hope it gets the point across.
KingJ2002
Member
i assume the reasoning behind this is because there's going to be a guaranteed rush of people coming into stores and looking to buy a new game. If you count the people coming in looking to buy ODST and have either a change of heart or have enough money to buy another game... then you have the gamestop reps and marketing to draw you to a second choice... I.E... saboteur.
if the saboteur has great reviews and good marketing... then you wlll have a rush of people coming in to check out one or the other.
but that is what i assume is the reasoning behind launching new titles around blockbuster releases.... you don't really see this happen with sequels though... unless they're directly competing with that blockbuster title.
if the saboteur has great reviews and good marketing... then you wlll have a rush of people coming in to check out one or the other.
but that is what i assume is the reasoning behind launching new titles around blockbuster releases.... you don't really see this happen with sequels though... unless they're directly competing with that blockbuster title.
DarthButcher
Member
The game would be better marketed as an October release than a December release. Having worked in game retail for 2 holiday seasons now, October usually gets the fewest releases of the holiday seasons. A lot of the big guns blast out in September(Rock Band: Beatles, Halo 3: ODST), then come out again in November then early December. There might be one release, if that, in October that is truly outstanding(LittleBigPlanet last year), aside from that, October gets the shaft.
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
Ask SEGA, they have a habit of doing that.
The most recent example is Valkyria Chronicles.
The most recent example is Valkyria Chronicles.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
RedSwirl said:
Those two markets don't really intersect.
Blast Processing
Member
RiotPelaaja said:
Really? Really?
MehsterChief
Member
Nevermind, wrong thread.
Urban Scholar
Member
RedSwirl said:
damn...
Normally, this would be true, but not this year. The best titles have almost all been delayed til 2010 with many of them appearing during the first half of 2010. This fall is pretty barren compared to previous years.
I'm actually much more likely to give a game like this a shot with its 2009 release date than I would if it were to release during the onslaught of 2010. This fall seems like a perfect time to release an unknown. Holiday sales + lots of delays.
You still have a couple big titles to worry about, but it's nothing compared to 2010.
Starwolf_UK
Member
In Europe they went and doubled the pain as Sony Europe bought 6 month exclusivity for the titles. The didn't do well, price dropped and then the Xbox and Gamecube versions come out at full price and consumers go "why should I pay that much? The PS2 versions are half the price now".Zapages said:or they'll send two similar games to die: Prince of Persia Sands of Time and Beyond Good and Evil... BG&E receiving the more fatal of the blows to it.
The 6 month exclusivity deal wasn't free so it hard to tell if they were worse off overall due to it.
Personally I think the most interesting thing to happen is when publishers delay their game to avoid certain death and then the game they were trying to avoid winds up getting delayed right into their path.
How am i supposed to buy 7-8 games in a single month? thats 8*60 = 480$+tax.....i cant spend 500$ on games in October/November.
didnt buy Mirrors Edge, didnt buy Dead space. Both games i liked. if those games came out Now (late summer) or this period last year, probably wouldve bought BOTH, instead of Gameflying them during the spring. (Bought RED FACTION, wouldnt even RENT that gane during the Holidays, not because of quality but because of the lack of Time/money)
this year, NOT going to buy, Borderlands, Saboteur, Alpha Protocol, Dragon Age and many other games. why? Even though according to the publishers "in HOLIDAYZ PPL will BUY BUY BUY"..... Theres a point when i dont have enough Money and Time left when 5-6 games come out in a single week.
Im getting Halo ODST, Modern Warfare2, Forza3, Left4dead2. Those are releases that will have my attention because of their previous history, If you launch your new game (No matter how good it is) anywhere NEAR those games, i will not spend 60$ or time away from ODST/MW2 to play your game. sorry but ill get it for cheap a year later/ gamefly them/ Or not play them at all.
Too bad publishers will continue to do the same shit over and over and then complain how people didnt buy their game.
didnt buy Mirrors Edge, didnt buy Dead space. Both games i liked. if those games came out Now (late summer) or this period last year, probably wouldve bought BOTH, instead of Gameflying them during the spring. (Bought RED FACTION, wouldnt even RENT that gane during the Holidays, not because of quality but because of the lack of Time/money)
this year, NOT going to buy, Borderlands, Saboteur, Alpha Protocol, Dragon Age and many other games. why? Even though according to the publishers "in HOLIDAYZ PPL will BUY BUY BUY"..... Theres a point when i dont have enough Money and Time left when 5-6 games come out in a single week.
Im getting Halo ODST, Modern Warfare2, Forza3, Left4dead2. Those are releases that will have my attention because of their previous history, If you launch your new game (No matter how good it is) anywhere NEAR those games, i will not spend 60$ or time away from ODST/MW2 to play your game. sorry but ill get it for cheap a year later/ gamefly them/ Or not play them at all.
Too bad publishers will continue to do the same shit over and over and then complain how people didnt buy their game.
They aren't doing that this fall, however, and that is the problem. Everyone decided to delay their games till 2010 (Dark Void just joined in), but now all of the big releases aren't hitting until 2010. We're left with a much smaller selection of games this fall.
It would be much safer to release a game this fall than to wait until 2010 now.