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Why do some fans think sales don't matter?
- Thread starter jrDev
- Start date
I NEED SCISSORS
Banned
Sales are like dick size - it doesn't matter if you know how to use it (budget).
TreasureHunterG
Banned
They matter to some companies to use it as excuse to not support a platform they don't want to develop for.
I don't give a shit about that. I care about what I'm playing. And since there's always something to play, I'm never particularly worried about whether or not something gets a sequel. That's out of my hands.
Nealand Liquor
Member
It's not that we (we as in: sane, balanced, not fucking mentally goofy gamers) think they don't matter, it's that we think all the fanboy bullshit that comes along with these sales 'discussions' is just as fucking useless as the fucking defects making them.
With that said I'm not going to speak for anyone else, but I sure do love opening these threads and having a laugh at fanboys expense. I always come away with an ego boost, feeling fucking great about myself.
With that said I'm not going to speak for anyone else, but I sure do love opening these threads and having a laugh at fanboys expense. I always come away with an ego boost, feeling fucking great about myself.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I don't care about sales at all with regards to enjoying games.
I do follow some sales talk purely out of interest about what's happening in the industry, as I follow all aspects of the business side of the industry; not just sales.
The only sales talk that ever actually annoys me is when people use the reverse argument of "low sales don't mean low quality". Rather than poor sales not indicating a game is bad, it's "big sales don't mean that game is good". With some carrying it to the extreme of suggesting if a game sells too much, it can't be good because it's clearly made for the lowest common denominator.
We see that logic regularly, to argue that highly successful games like Call of Duty are crap because they're clearly selling to armies of dumb people. This is where studying sales does actually help you understand games better: some games sell big because of a fad, others sell big because they're actually good.
Example: Enter The Matrix sells five million copies, all front loaded, due to a marketing tie-in with the release of The Matrix Reloaded. It hardly keeps selling and doesn't spawn a successful franchise because it's not a good game at all.
Example: Call of Duty sells millions every iteration, and continues to remain appealing. It is not a bad game or series, for all the hate it receives and negative trends associated with it. It remains an evergreen series because it deserves it.
(The fact that the rest of the industry has wasted a lot of time, money, and resources in a futile attempt to clone COD is not COD's problem, and irrelevant to why it is a success.)
Understanding things like this can also help detangle opinion and spin. Many people will go on at length about how awful COD is, with a laundry list of all the reasons it sucks, but the reality refuses to bend there. Its core qualities are solid for what it does, and it remains successful.
I do follow some sales talk purely out of interest about what's happening in the industry, as I follow all aspects of the business side of the industry; not just sales.
The only sales talk that ever actually annoys me is when people use the reverse argument of "low sales don't mean low quality". Rather than poor sales not indicating a game is bad, it's "big sales don't mean that game is good". With some carrying it to the extreme of suggesting if a game sells too much, it can't be good because it's clearly made for the lowest common denominator.
We see that logic regularly, to argue that highly successful games like Call of Duty are crap because they're clearly selling to armies of dumb people. This is where studying sales does actually help you understand games better: some games sell big because of a fad, others sell big because they're actually good.
Example: Enter The Matrix sells five million copies, all front loaded, due to a marketing tie-in with the release of The Matrix Reloaded. It hardly keeps selling and doesn't spawn a successful franchise because it's not a good game at all.
Example: Call of Duty sells millions every iteration, and continues to remain appealing. It is not a bad game or series, for all the hate it receives and negative trends associated with it. It remains an evergreen series because it deserves it.
(The fact that the rest of the industry has wasted a lot of time, money, and resources in a futile attempt to clone COD is not COD's problem, and irrelevant to why it is a success.)
Understanding things like this can also help detangle opinion and spin. Many people will go on at length about how awful COD is, with a laundry list of all the reasons it sucks, but the reality refuses to bend there. Its core qualities are solid for what it does, and it remains successful.
chickdigger802
Banned
Sales are fine.
But fuck people that are all 'I buy blah blah blah to support blah blah blah'
I buy games cuz I want to play them.
i buy consoles because there is a game i want to play (not promises).
But fuck people that are all 'I buy blah blah blah to support blah blah blah'
I buy games cuz I want to play them.
i buy consoles because there is a game i want to play (not promises).
If you feel sales don't matter at all, please never complain about any of the following things on the forum again:
-Lack of game localization.
-Homogenization of game design.
-Any changes to a series that makes it more like a series that sells more.
-Lack of retail release of a game.
-Streamlining
-Accessibility
-Developers moving to social gaming.
-Developers you like no longer making games you like.
-Series you like no longer getting new entries.
-Online passes.
-Always online DRM.
-DLC, locked disc DLC, and day one DLC.
-Proprietary/company specific digital distribution stores.
-Multiplayer modes being added to most games.
-Games not coming to your platform of choice.
Because these all relate back to sales.
-Lack of game localization.
-Homogenization of game design.
-Any changes to a series that makes it more like a series that sells more.
-Lack of retail release of a game.
-Streamlining
-Accessibility
-Developers moving to social gaming.
-Developers you like no longer making games you like.
-Series you like no longer getting new entries.
-Online passes.
-Always online DRM.
-DLC, locked disc DLC, and day one DLC.
-Proprietary/company specific digital distribution stores.
-Multiplayer modes being added to most games.
-Games not coming to your platform of choice.
Because these all relate back to sales.
DidntKnowJack
Member
Sales matter, of course. But I don't give a fuck about them.
Or I should say, I don't care to discuss sales numbers on a gaming forum. So I avoid those threads. Just doesn't interest me.
Or I should say, I don't care to discuss sales numbers on a gaming forum. So I avoid those threads. Just doesn't interest me.
GhostTrick
Banned
Everything has been said. Sales drive the entire industry. Powerfull consoles sells ? Then make powerfull consoles. They don't ? Stop making them. J-RPG sells ? Localize them. They don't ? Keep them in Japan. Spectacular FPS sells ? Lets make one too.
Of course, sells doesn't make game quality, for sure. But people can't ignore them, or claiming they are meaningless.
semiconscious
Member
exactly. sales & quality have never necessarily been about the same thing. sometimes, yes. sometimes, no. when they are, it's nice. when they're not (whether we're talking popular garbage or unpopular gems), it's unfortunate...
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
It's weird how the topic has shifted from explaining to the OP why some don't care to hear about sales talk to justifying sales discussions
I think no actual person in the thread holds the opinion that sales don't matter in the industry.
I think no actual person in the thread holds the opinion that sales don't matter in the industry.
Bobs Big Boy
Member
It's what I believe. The things that interest me aren't interesting because of how many people buy them. Usually it's the thing people aren't buying.
I don't want sequels to most things, so this helps.
I quite liked Enter The Matrix.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Pretty much.
Unless your own financial well-being is directly tied to the success or failure of the products in question, I really can't imagine why you'd give a shit. This is more or less how I feel whenever I do glance at Sales-Age threads.
Point out the people who said sales absolutely don't matter. Because right now, it sounds like you're talking about an extreme of people who don't exists.
And hating sales talk doesn't instantly mean that people think sales don't matter. People can know that sales matter, but just dislike the discussions themselves as they can quickly devolve inaccurate knee-jerk reactions and console warrior crap.
Evolution_1ne
Banned
fucking this, especially in regards to anything Sony related
Infinite Justice
Member
Yep
GuitarAtomik
Member
Pimpbaa
Slop Inspector
Sales always matter although it doesn't stop me from buying a poorly selling console or portable anymore (as long as it's under 300 bucks). Wish I had more money during my teens and early adulthood. Would have got consoles like the Turbografx-16 and the Saturn. I get more upset when a good game sells poorly because that means probably no sequel or worse closure of the developer.
Of course sales matter a lot. It's just that for some people, at some point, they just choose to enjoy what they have instead of thinking too much about the ugly realities. That's not a bad state of mind at all, especially for stuff like game sales where it's not within their control. But there are also people in other stages of the grieving process at any given point in time which you do see.
Or if you want the devs to make a new IP.
Sales affect the studio more than just "sequel".
The understand this sentiment, what I don't understand are fans that go into threads that are discussing sales and throw a curve ball comment about not caring...
ihearthawthats
Banned
but that doesn't really answer the question. it only says why it doesn't matter to you. but i guess that's the point, because i honestly don't know too many people that actually think sales don't matter in the general sense.
you play fighting games? if a game don't sell, it don't get played. fighting games strive on their communities. sure you can have small yet dedicated communities, but it sure would be nice if your game would be an evo game.sixfortyfive said:
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
The importance of sales in GAF is directly proportionate to the amount of sales your favorite platform/game has.
Mavromatis
Member
I like this vision and want to believe at it. But you are forgetting the sale is related to price first. Try selling at third world with first world prices and you'll lose sales. After that all the DRM in the world can't save you.
Sales matter to publishers, and games matter to gamers. I wish they mattered a bit more to the other party, but they don't.
Why should they love sale talk? Would you like to get a sub forum while we all talk about how Gaming Industry as a business sector doing and what are the economical mechanics behind the production and release of a game? I understand that people find that kind of talk sophisticated, think that it gives the place class but being complex doesn't make them interesting.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
It's not about whether we think sales matter, but rather sales numbers shouldn't influence if you think a game is good or not For your personal tastes.
furthermore, a lot of games that are considered flops this gen, would of been profitable niche titles in previous gen. It make sense that people that like these kind of titles don't worry about sales, as they didn't have so much significance previously.
And finally, sales are Mostly signs of good marketing and popularity. If the game is actually excellent is icing on the cake.
I like the Vita a lot, and I think it's fucked
That would be an inverse proportionality
How much does a game have to sell to have a dedicated community? What's the metric? Marvel? SF4? KoF13? Persona?
I wish Baten Kaitos Origins sold well
I bought two copies!
New even!
For 4 dollars and change each!
When people are kids/fanchildren, sales are one of the things they use in their stupid little console wars. Once they realize that the big kids find them annoying because of their system wars shit, they adopt the "Just play what you want to play" attitude and "sales don't matter" comes along with it, even though it's not true.
That's my theory.
Wouldn't your world be a little better with Zone of the Enders: The 3rd Runner in it? Unless there's not a single game in the entire world that you wish had a sequel or even a spiritual successor, they have an effect on what you play and should matter to you.
^^^ I like this post.
That's my theory.
Wouldn't your world be a little better with Zone of the Enders: The 3rd Runner in it? Unless there's not a single game in the entire world that you wish had a sequel or even a spiritual successor, they have an effect on what you play and should matter to you.
^^^ I like this post.
Uno Venova
Banned
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Hear hear.
I am a proponent of play what you want, but I realize sales matter. I just dislike threads being derailed by pointless X sold Z amount so B is better than Q arguments.
I don't go into sales-age threads because it doesn't matter to me. I realize sales are a factor in discussing a game, but it is rarely done so in a constructive or rational manner (outside of sales-age threads. Most of those guys are cool and level headed posters).
User 73706
Banned
I think they matter to some extent but reviews should give you all you need to know. Reputable sites like IGN and vgcchartz are usually my go-to sources.
Actually I think it's very weird to care about sales or identify yourself as a "fan" of what is ultimately disposable entertainment.
Say, would I enjoy something like Otogi 3 or a new Jet Set Radio? Fuck yeah I would, but that's more of "wouldn't it be nice" passing thought. To spend time online checking stats and arguing about numbers feels so strange to me - if you're so invested in games why not spend that time gaming? As much as some sequels are sorely missed, for pretty much every genre there is probably more good games than free time available to play them.
Say, would I enjoy something like Otogi 3 or a new Jet Set Radio? Fuck yeah I would, but that's more of "wouldn't it be nice" passing thought. To spend time online checking stats and arguing about numbers feels so strange to me - if you're so invested in games why not spend that time gaming? As much as some sequels are sorely missed, for pretty much every genre there is probably more good games than free time available to play them.
I have seriously never seen this before. At least, not on this forum. Maybe I'm just tuning it out or I'm going into the wrong threads.
Wario's right to a degree; I enjoy games regardless of meta critic or sales.
But, I have to admit, playing a game I love, and knowing there wont be a sequel does bother me. I read sales threads, and find out how well my favourite games do because
A.) I find it interesting
and B.) I like to know if the games I like wil get sequels, or if the genre will get more games.
The only time sales have affected a purchase are with the Vita. I was going to buy that, but because its dead, I'm not forking over money to play a handful of games. Devs wont support it.
But, I have to admit, playing a game I love, and knowing there wont be a sequel does bother me. I read sales threads, and find out how well my favourite games do because
A.) I find it interesting
and B.) I like to know if the games I like wil get sequels, or if the genre will get more games.
The only time sales have affected a purchase are with the Vita. I was going to buy that, but because its dead, I'm not forking over money to play a handful of games. Devs wont support it.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
The first game I traveled for was TvC. It didn't exactly light up the charts.
No one's really making a good case for why I should care about sales. What good does obsessing over them do for me? It doesn't change the reality of the situation. I'd rather just play what I have and enjoy what I'm playing.
People who are emotionally invested in the well-being of publishers are very strange to me. Worrying over something completely beyond your control is... bizarre.
Half of GAF needs to pack it up then LOL.
It happens to every company, not just poor little Sony
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
You see it sometimes when people get defensive of their preferences as a way to dismiss criticism of them
Same with GOTY winners and review scores
Argumentum ad populum is as pretty common defense mechanism in general on gaf
Out-fucking-standing.
ihearthawthats
Banned
worrying about sales and thinking they don't matter are two different things.
i would call tvc a moderate success. i mean, it was at evo and can also be considered the precursor to mvc3.
staticneuron
Member
Oh no! It is the Dread Pirate Roberts!
What have you done to Westley?!
On Topic:
The only people I have seen that say sales don't matter simply but forth the feeling that they do not care and it is a situation out of their hands therefore they will not devote time to it.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Well, nobody believes that they don't matter period, so I'm not sure why anyone's having that conversation at all.
OP's argument seems to be entirely based on a mischaracterization.
Sales have nothing to do with whether or not a game is at EVO.