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Why does "no-games" still plague the Mac platform?
- Thread starter Kraftwerk
- Start date
lunchtoast
Member
You can play Half life 2 and Guild Wars 2.
I don't have a link for it, but Gabe was talking about Apple's approach to gaming. He said some guys from apple would come by and ask what they could do to make gaming on macs better. Valve would give them some suggestions, the apple guys would be enthusiastic, and then they would leave. Nothing would happen.
Then a year or so after that, some different guys from apple would come by and ask what they could do to make gaming on macs better. Valve would give them some suggestions, the apple guys would be enthusiastic, and then they would leave. Nothing would happen.
Then a year or so after that, some different guys from apple would come by and ask what they could do to make gaming on macs better. Valve would give them some suggestions, the apple guys would be enthusiastic, and then they would leave. Nothing would happen.
Then a year or so after that, some different guys from apple would come by and ask what they could do to make gaming on macs better. Valve would give them some suggestions, the apple guys would be enthusiastic, and then they would leave. Nothing would happen....
Then a year or so after that, some different guys from apple would come by and ask what they could do to make gaming on macs better. Valve would give them some suggestions, the apple guys would be enthusiastic, and then they would leave. Nothing would happen.
Then a year or so after that, some different guys from apple would come by and ask what they could do to make gaming on macs better. Valve would give them some suggestions, the apple guys would be enthusiastic, and then they would leave. Nothing would happen.
Then a year or so after that, some different guys from apple would come by and ask what they could do to make gaming on macs better. Valve would give them some suggestions, the apple guys would be enthusiastic, and then they would leave. Nothing would happen....
The drivers improved a lot, but all they did was to allow games to use (most) DX9-level features whereas before it was bug-city trying to go beyond shader model 2.0. Forget about using shader model 4 (new bug city) and shader model 5 (drivers are still stuck at OpenGL 3.2: they need at least 4.0 for DX11 features).
MrCompletely
Member
208 games in my library and 53 are Mac compat, and that includes some games that are broken down by episode, like telltales back to the future, which is 6 episodes.
I dual booted my MacBook Pro but the thing really can't handle long session hardcore gaming when booted under windows7. It has a decent dedicated gpu (amd 6970) and can run the games very well, but the thing runs so hot that I'm afraid I'm gonna melt it.
Mac offerings have improved dramatically over the past 18 months, but gaming is far from its core competency
I dual booted my MacBook Pro but the thing really can't handle long session hardcore gaming when booted under windows7. It has a decent dedicated gpu (amd 6970) and can run the games very well, but the thing runs so hot that I'm afraid I'm gonna melt it.
Mac offerings have improved dramatically over the past 18 months, but gaming is far from its core competency
Haunted
Member
Ultimately, it's Apple's responsibility to entice developers to develop for their platform as long as it has such small share of the market. The other solution is for Apple to grow their market share to a point where it's not financially feasible for developers to ignore the platform.
Apple should launch a new gaming-centric SDK to rival DirectX for OS X (centered around opengl) alongside an official bluetooth gamepad (that works for both mac and ios) and a souped-up apple tv box that uses both to crush the ouya before it has a chance to dominate. All Mac gaming problems solved.
Woo-Fu
Banned
Dictator93
Member
the reasons are pretty obvious as pointed out by this thread
polyh3dron
Banned
I have Boot Camp installed on my rMBP and play quite a few games on it, have been enjoying the hell out of Dishonored on it. It runs games much better than the consoles do and I'm happy with that.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
So you like Windows then.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
How many of that 7% are gamers though? And the ones that are probably have boot camp already.
More Fun To Compute
Member
People might buy macs but historically mac owners are not interested in buying games software. Publishers have burned before by an enthusiastic crowd begging for versions of huge titles when the game then goes on to sell 10k.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
Hahahahah.
MrCunningham
Member
- Weak video drivers mandated by Apple and updated on a bi-annual release date.
- Segmented game market propagated by porting companies like Aspyr, Feral Interactive and such.
- Smaller market share (duh
) - iOS exists, this has become the platform of choice for developers who want to make games on Apple hardware.
I do think that gaming has improved a lot on OSx over the last few years with the event of Steam and the Mac app store. But it will never really catch up to Windows as the home computer platform of choice for gaming. Not like it really matters much, since they already have the mobile device market locked down pretty well.
The Xbox has DirectX.
Sony and Nintendo don't have Direct X but they still have hardware specific gaming APIs. Apple has no such thing. Some of the newer stuff for iOS is similar but it still pales massively in terms of the developer friendliness for games creation on other platforms.
DragonSworne
Banned
When apple let's me configure and build my own Mac, then we'll talk
And will continue to be.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
The curse of Bungie still has a firm hold
Thankfully, not everyone has to work a shitty desk job.
I think most worthwhile "platform" and indie games are making it to Mac now, save for a few notable exceptions (League of Legends, DayZ). I think the bigger issue is with publishers and developers selling players on a Mac version, then taking forever to deliver (Dota 2, Hotline Miami, Guild Wars 2).
- Weak video drivers mandated by Apple and updated on a bi-annual release date.
- Segmented game market propagated by porting companies like Aspyr, Feral Interactive and such.
- Smaller market share (duh
- iOS exists, this has become the game platform of choice for developers who want to develop on Apple hardware.
I do think that gaming has improved a lot on OSx over the last few years with the event of Steam and the Mac app store. But it will never really catch up to Windows and the home computer platform of choice for gaming. Not like it really matters much, since they already have the mobile device market locked down pretty well.
These. You don't need to do much to get games on your platform (if it's sucessful) but you need to care at least a little bit and apple clearly doesn't.
eot
Banned
Here's your link
http://archive.videogamesdaily.com/features/gabenewell_valve_iv_sep07_p1.asp
That was 5 years ago and since then they put Steam on OSX so things probably changed a bit.
Yup, Apple is huge. Apple computers are not nearly as huge.
Most PC games use Direct X these days there are some developers who have both a Direct X version and a OpenGL versions. There used to be time when Opengl was used more than Direct X. Direct X box and Vista's scared statics worked for the most part. The big scare was that Vista support version of OpenGL would be put on of the Direct X for backwards compatibility but at the cost of a performance hit, they would end up backpedaling on that idea but the damage was done.
OpenGL is a better API than Direct X in the performance department BUT Direct X is much bigger API then it has function that you need to go to another API for in OpenGL such as audio.
OpenGL is a better API than Direct X in the performance department BUT Direct X is much bigger API then it has function that you need to go to another API for in OpenGL such as audio.
Casual games are browser based, so no need to specifically make it for Mac. Hardcore games.. the Mac Pro still sits unupdated since 2010. Maybe if they were more serious about keeping the Pros up to date, certain developers would be more interested. They had some lame as fuck slight upclock version in 2012, but it still comes with (from what I can tell) a circa 2009 video card.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
The Humble Bundles have given me a lot of games to play on the Mac, and there's a decent amount of games supported on Steam and GOG, but it's still a fraction of the options available on the Windows side of things.
dark_chris
Member
I installed Windows 8 on my Mac and gave 200GB (out of 750GB hSSD) for that partition to play games. My Macbook pro is completely maxed out on terms of specs so it runs my games quite well! Not much of an inconvenience nor do i mind.
Thats my solution to play all my steam games. Just bootcamp it.
Thats my solution to play all my steam games. Just bootcamp it.
Well, any Mac really. it applies to both the iMac line and the MBP line.
Bootcamp won't hurt performance at all because it's just a tool to enable dual-booting. Parallels is virtualization software so there will be a performance hit when using it. I have no idea how much, though. I generally don't recommend trying to game in a virtualized environment.
I would head over to Apple's site and look at the chips used in the high-end systems, and then use a site like Tom's Hardware to guestimate what kind of performance you should expect.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
I think a good portion of it has to do with how locked down Apple hardware is. Their laptop line is their biggest seller by far and the iMac isn't upgradeable. The Mac Pro is hilariously outdated and hasn't been refreshed since 2010. It also can't be upgraded to the new Sandy Bridge processors as far as I know. Stock ATi 5770 video card and the whole package is ridiculously expensive to boot.
The hardware consistently lags behind.
The hardware consistently lags behind.
Nobody buys a Mac Pro today anyways. The 15 inch retina has a 650M and the iMac can be upgraded to a 680MX. You can get better chips for PCs, but they will run modern games just fine, heck Intel HD 4000 runs quite a lot of games just fine on low.
ScepticMatt
Member
1. Low market share outside US
2. Bootcamp, PC legacy
3. Weak hardware, no well-priced desktops
4. Outdated APIs, no DirectX
5. Outdated drivers, restricted by Apple
6. No 'real' dev support by Apple
2. Bootcamp, PC legacy
3. Weak hardware, no well-priced desktops
4. Outdated APIs, no DirectX
5. Outdated drivers, restricted by Apple
6. No 'real' dev support by Apple
As someone who's been using Macs for quite a while now (and even gaming on them now and then), there are a few factors at play here. Firstly, there are a lot more games available for Macs now than there were a few years ago, and it's a hell of a lot easier to get them. Back in the day, when a Mac version of a game did come out, it would generally be at least 6 months later than the PC version, and only sold down the back of some pokey little Apple shop, if at all. Furthermore, said pokey little Apple shops generally would just have a small section of games, mostly consisting of two or three year old titles still going for RRP. There were a handful of devs that did PC/Mac DVDs (eg Blizzard), but outside of that you'd be lucky to find Mac games in dedicated games retailers at all.
It's very different these days, though, as Steam (and to a lesser, but still important, extent the App Store) have really improved both the amount of games available on Mac, and making it possible for Mac owners to actually get hold of said games easily and for a reasonable price. Not every game gets a Mac version, but if you do own a Mac you now get access to a lot of good games, usually day and date with PC, and for good prices. Just having that is a major advance.
That said, Macs are obviously never going to become a major gaming platform. Apple don't focus on that market, and to be honest it doesn't make much sense for them to. A real gaming-focussed machine requires full-size PCIe graphics cards, and there isn't really space for that in Apple's line-up, between the size-conscious Mac Minis and iMacs and the full-size Mac Pro workstations (which would be massive overkill for a gamer). Any gaming rig they did build would just be much more expensive than a self-build in any case, so there's really not much incentive there for them.
Furthermore, for those of us who do own Macs and are serious gamers, Boot Camp does the job perfectly. In fact, I'm typing this on my MBP on a boot camp partition that I use literally only for games, while I'm waiting for Anno 2070 to download. Speaking of which, the download just seems to have finished, so I'll be off to enjoy my Steam sale haul now.
It's very different these days, though, as Steam (and to a lesser, but still important, extent the App Store) have really improved both the amount of games available on Mac, and making it possible for Mac owners to actually get hold of said games easily and for a reasonable price. Not every game gets a Mac version, but if you do own a Mac you now get access to a lot of good games, usually day and date with PC, and for good prices. Just having that is a major advance.
That said, Macs are obviously never going to become a major gaming platform. Apple don't focus on that market, and to be honest it doesn't make much sense for them to. A real gaming-focussed machine requires full-size PCIe graphics cards, and there isn't really space for that in Apple's line-up, between the size-conscious Mac Minis and iMacs and the full-size Mac Pro workstations (which would be massive overkill for a gamer). Any gaming rig they did build would just be much more expensive than a self-build in any case, so there's really not much incentive there for them.
Furthermore, for those of us who do own Macs and are serious gamers, Boot Camp does the job perfectly. In fact, I'm typing this on my MBP on a boot camp partition that I use literally only for games, while I'm waiting for Anno 2070 to download. Speaking of which, the download just seems to have finished, so I'll be off to enjoy my Steam sale haul now.
DING! DING! DING! Winner, winner, chicken dinner!
AHA-Lambda
Member
I have an iMac and am looking into Bootcamp currently but I am worried about this aswell tbh.
Diprosalic
Banned
not an official one.
I can also confirm this. Running games on OSX gives you worse performance but the device remains relatively cool. Under Windows I get great performance, but the device gets way, way too hot.
Wiktor
Member
There used to be, but Riot closed it down a year ago. Some fans made unofficial one called boompje. It's not as good as official and there's a risk of ban, but it's better than nothing.
Chittagong
Gold Member
The main reason for no games on Mac now is that in case you'd want to have a half decent gaming rig you'd need a Mac Pro, and seriously, who has a Mac Pro AND time to play?
ii Stryker
Banned
Show me to your money tree!!!
The most popular Mac's are iMac's and the only thing you can change on one of those is the RAM and for scalability a Mac Pro costs a small fortune.
PC's are cheaper and have the lions share of the market.
To be fair, the vast majority of computer users don't give a fuck about updating their graphics cards and CPUs, so that argument is largely invalid. The Macs on the market now are largely capable of handling most modern games also (especially compared to the current gen of consoles!). The issue is in publishers' development pipelines. Most don't use a development platform that runs on Macs.
Look at the PixelJunk guys, for example. They know that there is middleware out there that allows them to make a game for Windows/Mac/Linux simultaneously, but to move their current project to that platform would require a couple of extra weeks of development, which they'd rather not deal with now. They might port it retroactively in the future, though (they say). There are probably a lot of situations like this, where the devs are just Windows users who don't have any knowledge of cross-platform tools. In the past couple of years, the amount of "low budget" games that started on XBLA/XBLIM or Windows and were subsequently ported to MacOS has really improved.
Look at the PixelJunk guys, for example. They know that there is middleware out there that allows them to make a game for Windows/Mac/Linux simultaneously, but to move their current project to that platform would require a couple of extra weeks of development, which they'd rather not deal with now. They might port it retroactively in the future, though (they say). There are probably a lot of situations like this, where the devs are just Windows users who don't have any knowledge of cross-platform tools. In the past couple of years, the amount of "low budget" games that started on XBLA/XBLIM or Windows and were subsequently ported to MacOS has really improved.
Version 3.0
Member
It's been the same forever. I remember an article in Next Generation magazine about 15 years ago, where they had an interview with some Apple executive talking up Sprockets (basically Mac DirectX, I guess). He swore that this was the end of Apple ignoring the game market. Of course, it went nowhere.