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[The Faceless Master]

Rap started to get an artistic pass right around the time that Eminem became popular.

 

[see5harp]

Why do anime fans get to look at a half naked 10 year old and write it off as "shes 1000 years old".

You gotta point. It is all make believe, especially with rap.

 

[ApharmdX]

It doesn't get a pass, generally. No way.

 

[wild wild rice]

Huh. This is the first I've heard of that Gibbs thing. Sucks if true.

Is it bad that this doesn't really affect my enjoyment of his music? Dude's such a good rapper.

Nah, I'll keep listening to him just as a keep listening to, reading, watching and consuming art made by other morally objectionable people. Separating the art and the person is necessary sometimes.

 

[Kyzer]

Recent albums I've listened to in the last week: Denzel Curry's new tape/Chance's new tape, still spinning' Bottomless Pit by Death Grips, and Vic Mensa's new EP. Please don't tell me what music I do or do not listen to. I brought up mainstream radio hip hop because it has a larger impact on society generally.

I find it questionable that you even know who Denzel Curry is but are asking a question like youre asking in the OP. You are an enigma.

Im curious, how much misogyny did you give those albums a pass for?

See misogyny not taken as a trope in rap? Not sure what you're asking.

So its a trope of hip hop but not a caricature...>>>>>>gg

 

[Valhelm]

It seems really incongruous with the movement in current rap of talking about racial issues and condemning white hegemony. Hell, even Kendrick is guilty of some misogynistic lyrics, though he is obviously far less of an offender than a lot of others operating within the genre. So many mainstream hip hop tracks are really gross about how women are described and objectified but it seems so accepted at this point that no one really seems to engage with this aspect of the music.

White feminists are sometimes uncomfortable with critiquing non-white misogyny. In addition, they generally don't want to be allies with the kinds of people who usually criticize Hip-Hop.

 

[freenudemacusers]

Most people don't even pay attention to the lyrics of songs in general; and pop rap is 90% club tunes so who cares really when you're grinding

 

[LosDaddie]

See misogyny not taken as a trope in rap? Not sure what you're asking.

And how would you enforce that?

When I got Run The Jewels 2 I was really excited that Gangsta Boo was a guest on a track because I've heard good guest raps by her before.

It turned out it was just El-p going 'She wanted my dick in her mouth all day' and Gangsta Boo's whole part was to echo 'dick in her mouth all day'.

I've been listening to rap since the 80's and I feel like I keep getting more aware of this stuff and rap music just gets less aware. It's weird going back to old school rap and they are just joking about food and stuff like they are all Weird Als.

Was that your first exposure to Gangsta Boo?

 

[Arthr2ShdsJcksn]

I give all art a pass on literally everything imaginable. If song-writers choose to engage with misogynist ideas, I'm more interested in what it says about the world we live in. Are they reflecting a truth, exaggerating it? For what purpose? How does it make 'me' feel about the topic when I hear it. If the answer to those questions is interesting, I'm in.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

It doesn't even get a pass from other rappers. Nevermind media at large.

Thing is, the critiques don't stop that type of rap from making money. THAT is your issue, not whether or not people speak on it. They have since the start.

 

[lightskintwin]

It been criticized for this for decades, but those songs are the ones that sell. I could show you a bunch of rappers that don't use misogyny in their lyrics. Bet you won't listen to them tho.

It's this! People follow formulas to sell. Plus it's been one of the genre's in the 90's that were on the frontlines for freedom of speech cases.

 

[see5harp]

I find it questionable that you even know who Denzel Curry is but are asking a question like youre asking in the OP. You are an enigma.

Im curious, how much misogyny did you give those albums a pass for?

I think it's pretty clear what he's asking because anyone who is a fan of rap has probably heard plenty of fucked up shit on songs and albums. I mean listen to some of the dumb ass shit Nas says on ether.

 

[ACE 1991]

White feminists are sometimes uncomfortable with critiquing non-white misogyny. In addition, they generally don't want to be allies with the kinds of people who usually criticize Hip-Hop.

I think this is definitely a part of it for sure.

I find it questionable that you even know who Denzel Curry is but are asking a question like youre asking in the OP. You are an enigma.

Im curious, how much misogyny did you give those albums a pass for?

It's something that has been bothering me recently so I decided to make a thread. Yes, other genres have this issue as well, but it is especially egregious in rap.

 

[Jonbo298]

Because I like big butts and I cannot lie.

 

[Kyzer]

I give all art a pass on literally everything imaginable. If song-writers choose to engage with misogynist ideas, I'm more interested in what it says about the world we live in. Are they reflecting a truth, exaggerating it? For what purpose? How does it make 'me' feel about the topic when I hear it. If the answer to those questions is interesting, I'm in.

this is how I listen to music too. its funny i used to hate rap when i was really little, just cuz my dad did, and it was "ignorant", then i learned to embrace it and take it for what it is. I literally listen to lil b like fine art, like damn this represents the culture that this society produces!

I think it's pretty clear what he's asking because anyone who is a fan of rap has probably heard plenty of fucked up shit on songs and albums. I mean listen to some of the dumb ass shit Nas says on ether.

I think this is definitely a part of it for sure.



It's something that has been bothering me recently so I decided to make a thread. Yes, other genres have this issue as well, but it is especially egregious in rap.

Well...in order for me to admit that its clear what you were asking i would have to admit that its clear hip hop in general is misogynistic and i dont agree that it is an inherent trait of hip hop much more than any other genre. i know theres a lot of misogyny in hip hop, but that doesnt mean that hip hop is misogynistic (especially when so much of the hip hop i listen to ISNT egregiously so), much less do i believe it gets a pass for its misogyny.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Rap started to get an artistic pass right around the time that Eminem became popular.

Not really. At very latest when Public Enemy came about media people decided that it wasn't acceptable to criticize rap. This was because it was seen as a political statement like Punk rock and judging it made you look like a dinosaur or a racist.

 

[lightskintwin]

Not really. At very latest when Public Enemy came about media people decided that it wasn't acceptable to criticize rap. This was because it was seen as a political statement like Punk rock and judging it made you look like a dinosaur or a racist.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Soapbox Killer]

Hip Hop is more lyrics focused so it would appear that its is but it doesn't really. Sex, drugs, violence in music was around and still is in all genre. Plus its a bit of "black privilege" if there is such a thing.

 

[collige]

Not really. At very latest when Public Enemy came about media people decided that it wasn't acceptable to criticize rap. This was because it was seen as a political statement like Punk rock and judging it made you look like a dinosaur or a racist.

Public Enemy got their entire career destroyed over the anti-semitic drama and people were causing controversy well into the 90s with the 2 Live Crew obscenity shit. People just got tired of having the same arguments over and over again.

 

[ACE 1991]

Well...in order for me to admit that its clear what you were asking i would have to admit that its clear hip hop in general is misogynistic and i dont agree that it is an inherent trait of hip hop much more than any other genre. i know theres a lot of misogyny in hip hop, but that doesnt mean that hip hop is misogynistic (especially when so much of the hip hop i listen to ISNT egregiously so), much less do i believe it gets a pass for its misogyny.

I never said it was an inherent trait. It's just a highly prevalent theme.

 

[SliceSabre]

it doesn't get a pass like in the least. The thing is though the audience generally doesn't seem to care so there is no real effort to change.

 

[old manatee]

It's hard to go back to Snoop and Dre's classic albums because of the neverending references to forcing people to suck their dicks.

 

[Andrew Korenchkin]

It's getting better now, but it sucks that it litters all my favorite classic albums.

Pretty sure Killer Mike replaces "faggot" with "maggot" now, on a related note.

Yeah, I imagine this is going to be a huge values dissonance thing in the near future. Definitely has the potential to cheapen our favorite albums, which sucks.

My main issue with some artists who try very hard to combat homophobia in rap music is not their content (because not many people I know are as pro-LBGT as I am), but the fact that their music is absolute shit (Hi Macklemore!). If you want to criticize a genre and call it out for its homophobia through your music, you have my back, but be sure you are actually can write good music.

 

[Kyzer]

I never said it was an inherent trait. It's just a highly prevalent theme.

You said hip hop is misogynistic when you asked why it gets a pass though lol ><

 

[MoodyFog]

Because nobody cares.

 

[jmdajr]

it doesn't get a pass like in the least. The thing is though the audience generally doesn't seem to care so there is no real effort to change.

seems fair. It's all "pretend"

Can't say I think about this like...ever.

 

[ACE 1991]

You said hip hop is misogynistic when you asked why it gets a pass though lol ><

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough, then.

 

[Andrew Korenchkin]

It's hard to go back to Snoop and Dre's classic albums because of the neverending references to forcing people to suck their dicks.

The calling of women hoes bugs me on that album, but I'll never get tired of " With my nuts on your tonsils. While you're onstage rapping at your wack-ass concert"

 

[Goro Majima]

When has rap ever gotten a pass for their lyrics? I can see thinking this way if you're young or spend most of your time on the Internet but portions of society at large still frequently condemns the lyrics...just maybe not as vocally or as obnoxiously as when gangster rap was the big thing.

Like anything else it deserves praise for the things it does right and criticism for the things it does wrong.

 

[norm9]

Because nobody cares.

But think of the children!

 

[MiniBossBattle]

Ben Fold's did a beautiful cover of NWA's "Bitches Aint Shit"

 

[see5harp]

Generally is probably not a good word. Obviously it's not inherent to the genre. i was actually surprised when ice cube performed a lot of his old material at Coachella without altering lyrics though. A lot of the lyrics were definitely homophobic but I don't think many of the 50,000 people there had a problem chanting about having big dicks in their mouth.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Audience doeant give a shit. As society changes it will get better and it already has. But if you expect maimstream rap to stop talking bout bitches hoes and sex you may as well give up. That is about as likely as askimg them to stop saying nigga or strip the bass out of the beats.

 

[Brakke]

Ben Fold's did a beautiful cover of NWA's "Bitches Aint Shit"

Beardy white dudes doing gentle covers of hip hop is truly the worst thing that exists in this world.

 

[MoodyFog]

But think of the children!

They're supposed to have parental advisory tho

 

[see5harp]

Public Enemy got their entire career destroyed over the anti-semitic drama and people were causing controversy well into the 90s with the 2 Live Crew obscenity shit. People just got tired of having the same arguments over and over again.

They also sorta just sucked after and including some of he got game.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

Beardy white dudes doing gentle covers of hip hop is truly the worst thing that exists in this world.

dood....

I liked it. Its a twist on the genre different genre's allowing you to listen to the lyrics with a different pace/background. Turning it into a ballad changes the tone, makes the melody and lyrics pop out.

No different taking Annie's "Its A Hard Knock Life" melody & samples into a rap was interesting.

 

[D1renegade]

Because bitches ain't shit but ho's and tricks.

Spoiler

i don't think it gets a pass tbh

 

[gdt]

All music gets this pass man. Not to the level that rap does, but still.

Most art gets the pass really.

 

[Data West]

OP, we have Kanye fans in this very forum

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Beardy white dudes doing gentle covers of hip hop is truly the worst thing that exists in this world.

Worse when my friends who dont like rap try to tell me its better than the original.

 

[see5harp]

Worse when my friends who dont like rap try to tell me its better than the original.

That's something else entirely. Ben folds isn't exactly just some random you tuber though come on.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

You have no idea what you're talking about.

I do have an idea. Public Enemy were much more influential in making rap appear like it should be protected speech than a pop act like Eminem.

 

[ACE 1991]

You said hip hop is misogynistic when you asked why it gets a pass though lol ><

Lmao I never even said this on second thought after re-reading my post

 

[Andrew Korenchkin]

I do have an idea. Public Enemy were much more influential in making rap appear like it should be protected speech than a pop act like Eminem.

Herewegoagain.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

That's something else entirely. Ben folds isn't exactly just some random you tuber though come on.

If you dont even like rap music why are you telling a rap fan why a cover that loses virtually everything that makes the music unique is better? Its a common thing with people who dont like hip hop. In the samw realm with "why isnit so vulgar" and "rap has nothing of value to say".

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Herewegoagain.

I don't really care to argue guy is a pop star simple as.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

Worse when my friends who dont like rap try to tell me its better than the original.

Its almost as if music is subjective and people like what they like. Imagine that.

 

[NeonBlack]

But think of the children!

The children are well aware

https://youtu.be/lztq-N6Qmxs

 

[213372bu]

How else are Juggalos going to ask their moms to buy Faygo?