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[Haunted]

Lets say we have two people, X, and Y

X buys all his games day 1, whereas Y waits 6 months to a year after release before he picks his games up

Y will pay a lot less overall, and play all his games patched up as much as they will be, while also buying a lot of the GOTY editions, meaning he gets a lot of games with all the DLC both free, and on the disc

Y will pay less than X and have a better experience with the games he plays over the course of the generation, this is undeniable

Then we have the industry, video games make most of their money in the first few weeks after launch (If I'm wrong, please correct me on this) it's why we have seen pre orders pushed harder and harder than ever, they want you to pay full price, they want to have a good idea of how well the game will do in its first week

But logically it makes no sense to buy day 1, and with games like Unity and the MCC coming out and really burning consumers, how long is this sustainable?

Sooner or later people will cotton onto the fact waiting is better for the consumer, and yet it's so much worse for the publisher and developer, if more and more people buy used and buy the game for 10-15 dollars/pounds off amazon they'll see the money they make on games dwindle

So we have this strange situation where day 1 means you get a worse experience for a higher price and yet publishers and developers make most of their money when people buy into the hype and buy day 1 anyway, I expect more and more substantial bonuses to be offered as pre order bonuses over the course of this gen as more and more people do decide to stop buying day 1

What do you think, GAF?

Y isn't part of the hype cycle. Y isn't part of the zeitgeist. Y can't post in the OT when it is the most active. Y can't listen to any topical gaming podcast and compare it to his own experiences in the game at the same time.


Going along with the hype/mainstream/zeitgeist might not be logical from a financial sense, its gains might not even be properly quantifiable, but the desire to be part of it most certainly exists and that pull is strong for a lot of people.

 

[Haunted]

The industry basically relies on the fact that adults are also terrible at the Stanford Marshmallow Test.

Aye. Delayed gratification is a no-no for this generation of consumers.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

X will spoil the game for Y.

Y's experience is destroyed.

 

[Haunted]

X will spoil the game for Y.

Y's experience is destroyed.

X sounds like kind of a dick.

 

[MrCaliaztec]

Yeah that's the point, they want you to be X but as a consumer its best to be Y

True but without X you would never have Y to follow. It's not like Y would become the new X. There would just be no products for X or Y... Or you'd have nothing but mobile/F2P that was my point.

It wouldn't work with just consumer Y. The Q&A would never be great to begin with. There would be no DLC, or patches. There wouldn't be a point or profit.

 

[Vitacat]

With Nintendo the X and Y concept generally doesn't work. If you want a physical copy, and wait too long, you might not get one at all or have to settle for digital. And more often than not Nintendo games don't go down in price. They just kinda disappear from shelves and go out of print.

 

[someguyinahat]

I feel like this is analogous to asking why people would rather see new movies in the theater instead of waiting for them to go to the cheap theaters or be released on disc to be watched in a home theater.

That analogy doesn't really hold up because most people don't have a movie theatre-sized screen at home, and even the cheap/revue theatres tend to have smaller screens, so the first theatre can offer a better experience. When it comes to games, waiting can offer the better experience because it can be patched or the DLC included.

 

[NZNova]

When it comes to games, waiting can offer the better experience because it can be patched or the DLC included.

But conversely, for multiplayer games buying upfront can (assuming the game isn't busted) make for a better experience for games that are popular for a while and then die out - if you wait before buying the community might have moved on to other games.

 

[TargetDummy81]

I pretty much Gamefly most of my PS4 games except for the occasional rare release I feel like buying myself. Usually for that to happen it has to be a series I am a major fan of or get my moneys worth out of play time wise.

The only one I currently have on preorder and paid off is Bloodborne. Have faith in my purchase with Miyazaki at the helm and the gameplay footage seen so far.

Plus after hearing more of the soundtrack that accompanied the control demonstration in the latest trailer that digital soundtrack will be great to have. The art book also although I won't be cracking that open until I beat the game so I don't potentially spoil myself.

Like others have mentioned already part of the fun with this game especially if it is like Demon's Souls / Dark Souls will be discovering things myself or with other players in co-op during the initial release.

I also don't like the idea of completely relying on digital releases in case the network is acting wonky or I want to replay a older game that I have. Easier to pop the disk back into the Playstation 4 and let it install enough for me to play while doing the rest in the as I'm playing instead of waiting for a download to start up and finish depending on the size of the game.

 

[Schreckstoff]

I did that for MCC and Sunset Overdrive and KI Season 2. Been blocked now.

That's the first time I ever heard of such a case I recently also bought GTA V from the Russian store.

 

[Version 3.0]

Congratulations for figuring out that you should be Mr. Y, but there's an endless supply of Mr. X lining up on Day 1. For every Mr. X that becomes Mr. Y, there's at least one more kid dying to be a Mr. X.

 

[Solaire of Astora]

It's also pretty easy if you're a part of decent communities like GAF that are diligent about spoiler tags. I managed to avoid TLoU spoilers for a year before I had a chance to finally play the game

But you always get the odd asshole that will post untagged spoilers with no regard for anyone else. Had Alien:Isolation spoiled for me right here on gaf shortly after release. No spoiler tags. Just "The thing I don't like is that *insert the biggest Alien:Isolation spoiler ever*..."

It wasn't in an alien isolation thread either.

And good luck if you're interested in some older games but still haven't checked them out. Again, had heavy rain completely spoiler in some random thread when everyone decided to just spoil the bloody thing. Not so sour about that as it is an older game, but for a game so heavily story based, I couldn't believe it was being posted so openly.

 

[Wensih]

X will spoil the game for Y.

Y's experience is destroyed.

Nah.

 

[EatMyFace]

In 6 months I'll be hyped for a different game and most likely won't buy that game I was interested in 6 months ago.

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

Lets say we have two people, X, and Y

X buys all his games day 1, whereas Y waits 6 months to a year after release before he picks his games up

Y will pay a lot less overall, and play all his games patched up as much as they will be, while also buying a lot of the GOTY editions, meaning he gets a lot of games with all the DLC both free, and on the disc

Y will pay less than X and have a better experience with the games he plays over the course of the generation, this is undeniable

Then we have the industry, video games make most of their money in the first few weeks after launch (If I'm wrong, please correct me on this) it's why we have seen pre orders pushed harder and harder than ever, they want you to pay full price, they want to have a good idea of how well the game will do in its first week

But logically it makes no sense to buy day 1, and with games like Unity and the MCC coming out and really burning consumers, how long is this sustainable?

Sooner or later people will cotton onto the fact waiting is better for the consumer, and yet it's so much worse for the publisher and developer, if more and more people buy used and buy the game for 10-15 dollars/pounds off amazon they'll see the money they make on games dwindle

So we have this strange situation where day 1 means you get a worse experience for a higher price and yet publishers and developers make most of their money when people buy into the hype and buy day 1 anyway, I expect more and more substantial bonuses to be offered as pre order bonuses over the course of this gen as more and more people do decide to stop buying day 1

What do you think, GAF?

Greed. Incompetence. Rent-seeking. Until people stop buying it, the industry won't stop selling it.

 

[JinjoUnchained]

Don't forget the online factor. The primary appeal of many of these games is online multiplayer and online communities are often best around launch. Would you rather play Titan Fall now or in the first couple of months?

 

[swazzyswess]

OP's actual post is saying the opposite of the thread title. they DO incentivize people to buy games day one through preorder bonuses, special editions, etc. people who choose to wait aren't incentivized to wait, they do it because they think it'll ultimately be a cheaper/less buggy experience.

 

[fredrancour]

Because so far, taking advantage of the enthusiasm of early-adopters has remained a profitable enough thing

It'll change when enough people get burned by it that their desire for shiny new toys gets eclipsed by cynicism.

In the meantime, it's easier to rely on marketing blitzes and optimistic day-one shoppers than to pray that you crack the code of getting good word-of-mouth.

 

[loaf of bread]

I have no problem being person X. I look forward to games all year and I want to play them and enjoy myself as soon as they're available not 1 year later. $60 is a fine price for a game. Going to the movies or dinner just for you will cost you roughly 20 bucks more or less for a 1-3 hour experience. For $60 with most games you get at least 10-12 hours of gameplay without taking into consideration replay value or multiplayer etc. Hell if you buy a game like fucking Witcher 3 or MGS you're getting probably almost a fucking months worth of entertainment for $60 bucks. Only 3 times more than it'll cost to go see a 2 hour movie with popcorn and soda. Granted its different in places like AUS but in the US? Videogames are great value for the amount of entertainment you're getting.

Also I've been gaming and preordering my entire life and I can honestly say I've never felt burnt by bugs or preorder dlc etc.

 

[Schreckstoff]

People realize that w/o people x the industry would nosedive.

 

[mclem]

The industry basically relies on the fact that adults are also terrible at the Stanford Marshmallow Test.

I can't help but imagine that that's the heavily-neutered followup to the Stanford Prison Experiment after complaints.

 

[Nanashrew]

They do incentivize day 1. They feed on the quick gratification many desire, and this can lead to many problems especially when the game is utterly broken. That leaves the person feeling totally burned by the company, but the problem with that desire is that many won't learn and will continue to perpetuate this awful cycle. That's what makes this so profitable for the companies and why many won't change.

Or in other words.

The industry basically relies on the fact that adults are also terrible at the Stanford Marshmallow Test.

 

[DrRussian]

It is pretty simple really. The entire purpose of the DLC is to keep X playing the game. The purpose of the best/GOTY edition is to get Y to purchase the game. The time delay between the two is theoretically the sweet spot between when X interest start to wane and when Y joins the game. This way Y still has people to play with and X has renewed interest to keep playing.

This seems pretty right to me. Thanks to Destiny and Watch Dogs I'm starting to make an effort to be more like person Y.

 

[Corgi]

Not worth getting goty editions either because 90% of all dlc is justifiably shit because they are made by the c team. Just get the base game half a year later for $20 or less.

 

[McSpidey]

The industry basically relies on the fact that adults are also terrible at the Stanford Marshmallow Test.

This model may require pre-existing knowledge and trust that the object will indeed be gratifying.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment

A 2012 study at the University of Rochester (with a smaller N= 28) altered the experiment by dividing children into two groups: one group was given a broken promise before the marshmallow test was conducted (the unreliable tester group), and the second group had a fulfilled promise before their marshmallow test (the reliable tester group). The reliable tester group waited up to four times longer (12 min) than the unreliable tester group for the second marshmallow to appear.

The authors argue that this calls into question the original interpretation of self-control as the critical factor in children's performance, since self-control should predict ability to wait, not strategic waiting when it makes sense. Prior to the Marshmallow Studies at Stanford, Walter Mischel had shown that the child's belief that the promised delayed rewards would actually be delivered is an important determinant of the choice to delay, but his later experiments did not take this factor into account or control for individual variation in beliefs about reliability when reporting correlations with life successes

 

[The Incredible Muffin]

When I buy a game primarily for its multiplayer i try to buy it asap.

I believe the community will be strongest in the first couple months, and unless its a real gem will die down real fast after that period.

 

[MarkusRJR]

Because on the retail side, there's a major fear of overstocking. Getting a general idea of potential launch sales (with launch sales or dev/IP history) gives them an idea of how much to produce and ship. Without data like that you end up under shipping thus pisses off your fans (an example would be Nintendo of America over the last 6 months), or over ship and lose a lot of money (some examples would be Bullet storm and Final Fantasy 13-2). Basically, it allows them to produce a reasonable amount of product.

Also, early adoption gives the publisher more money, so it makes sense to incentivise it with really inexpensive to develop pre-order only bonuses that fans would appreciate.

 

[boltz]

This situation has existed for years - look at steam sales. You would think no one would buy a steam game upon release because eventually it'll get a nice steam discount. However, plenty of newly released steam games still do well.

So there's always going to be a group of people willing to pay full price for the newest thing.

 

[Skux]

Because for the people who buy day one, they'll buy it anyway. Why sweeten the pot for people who have already put the money down?

 

[Venfayth]

If a game is worth it to me to buy it day one, as in, I want to be experiencing it with my friends, then I will do so.

If it's not, then I'll wait until it's convenient to buy.

If I need to be frugal at that moment then I will be frugal.

Can I take shades of gray?

 

[t26]

Mr. X get to post in OT
Mr Y gets to post in LTTP

 

[Neiteio]

Mr. Y has to wait like six months

I mean, this isn't rocket science

 

[Atomski]

When I buy a game primarily for its multiplayer i try to buy it asap.

I believe the community will be strongest in the first couple months, and unless its a real gem will die down real fast after that period.

As of late this dosnt seem to be the case.. day one buys on multiplayer focused games tend to just mean you get a broken game and have to wait for patches and server crap to be fixed.

Sometimes the community is killed before the game is even working properly.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

Does anyone remember a comic where the character says he only plays Valve games years after the release, and then the last panel was the character said "The Cake is a lie" while everyone else eye rolls?

I forgot if it was penny arcade or something else.

 

[kyser73]

I've come to the conclusion that the economics of the gaming industry and residential property development are similar:

They both suffer from poor cash flow on a day-to-day basis, so during development need to get $$$s committed, hence the drive for pre-orders and high Day 1 sales (basically pre-ordering is the same as buying a house off-plan, sometimes before the designs are finalised) so the developer both has a degree of certainty about how much money they might make, and can ensure that they can pay their staff when the game is being developed, either on the basis of the success of previous games, or more likely being able to get ongoing finance from their banks.

Obviously property developers don't have DLC, but there does seem to be a superficial resemblance between the two industries when they are building something.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Lets say we have two people, X, and Y

X buys all his games day 1, whereas Y waits 6 months to a year after release before he picks his games up

Y will pay a lot less overall, and play all his games patched up as much as they will be, while also buying a lot of the GOTY editions, meaning he gets a lot of games with all the DLC both free, and on the disc

Y will pay less than X and have a better experience with the games he plays over the course of the generation, this is undeniable

Then we have the industry, video games make most of their money in the first few weeks after launch (If I'm wrong, please correct me on this) it's why we have seen pre orders pushed harder and harder than ever, they want you to pay full price, they want to have a good idea of how well the game will do in its first week

But logically it makes no sense to buy day 1, and with games like Unity and the MCC coming out and really burning consumers, how long is this sustainable?

Sooner or later people will cotton onto the fact waiting is better for the consumer, and yet it's so much worse for the publisher and developer, if more and more people buy used and buy the game for 10-15 dollars/pounds off amazon they'll see the money they make on games dwindle

So we have this strange situation where day 1 means you get a worse experience for a higher price and yet publishers and developers make most of their money when people buy into the hype and buy day 1 anyway, I expect more and more substantial bonuses to be offered as pre order bonuses over the course of this gen as more and more people do decide to stop buying day 1

What do you think, GAF?

You could literally say this about any product ever.

Let's say a movie for example. Yes I *could* wait until the blu-ray with extras, interviews, making-of, and digital copy comes out to watch at my leisure in the comfort of my home for $17.99. Or I could pay $32.00 for my ticket and popcorn to see it only once, in a theater full of noisy people when it comes out.

Point is, the perk of being an early adopter is you don't have to wait. And for the majority of people, waiting and losing out on the water cooler discussion of something current and new is worse than receiving an incomplete/lower quality product early on. And even more simply don't care what bonuses they receive later down the line for waiting.

 

[Dunan]

I've always been a Y-type purchaser, often with such long delays that I can play games with an effective 90% discount (buy at $20, sell for $15).

The one game that made me want to buy the next iteration on Day One was Assassin's Creed II. Seeing all that super-secret stuff in the glyph puzzles made me want to be the very first person in the world to solve some of them next time around, so I pre-ordered Brotherhood. Then Ubi basically gave up on that whole part of the game -- a Day One seller if ever there was one -- and now I'm back to buying AC games with a delay of a month or two. And I'm enjoying them much more and am much more forgiving of their flaws. This wouldn't be the case if I'd paid $60 for them.

 

[The Faceless Master]

i can't even point out multiplayer as a better experience early on anymore because so many games ship with it broken.

 

[Petrae]

People realize that w/o people x the industry would nosedive.

The industry converted me from X to Y, given the pattern of quick price drops, shipping broken/bugged games that don't work right for days/weeks after launch, and the general expectation that a re-release of the game with some/most DLC included will come at some point. These industry-created factors outweigh any incentive to spend more money just to play at launch for me.

So, if the industry nosedives because X gets converted to Y too often, that's the industry's problem. Not Y's.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

This is true of every tech and fashion purchase. Why buy day one? Because you want it now.

 

[farisr]

how long is this sustainable?

For a while, and if by some miracle consumers smarten up and day one sales start getting heavily impacted, devs and publishers will finally learn a lesson and maybe start doing more rigorous testing/spend more time on development before announcing the release date/shipping it out.

 

[IsntChrisL]

I wait for almost all games to go on sale/include the content that should have been there in the first place. I save a lot of money and I get more content. I win.

Oh and I don't support shitty anti-consumer practices in the process.

Edit: GOTY editions won't go away because they're a last ditch effort to milk the game for as much money as possible before it's completely forgotten.

 

[staticneuron]

Thats true to an extent, but with games it's different because you have a worse experience, if you play full price for a buggy and broken game that gets fixed 6 months later, thats not the same with buying a TV that works the same as it did when it came out 6 months after release

Also it's new for games, if you brought a PS2 game 6 months after it came out, you were playing the game the same way it was when it came out

Out of all the games released year after year that is not a common experience at all. You can probably say that about a handful of popular releases recently but still it is in the minority overall.

Early adopters get to play the game and then move on. While others are playing 6 month old games they most likely are trying out the latest stuff.

I am the type of gamer that does both and I have a backlog. Because I play on multiple consoles even if I purchase day one, it may not mean I will play it day one. Either way, if the product is really bad the company normally tries to make up for it. i have spent very little time with MCC for example but still qualify for the ODST because I have been trying to play the game from the start.

I played and beat AC unity after second patch only to come to the conclusion that I am skipping out on the next entry. So sometimes you can use your experience to better align your purchasing habits with companies and games that don't give you a horrible experience.

 

[Schreckstoff]

The industry converted me from X to Y, given the pattern of quick price drops, shipping broken/bugged games that don't work right for days/weeks after launch, and the general expectation that a re-release of the game with some/most DLC included will come at some point. These industry-created factors outweigh any incentive to spend more money just to play at launch for me.

So, if the industry nosedives because X gets converted to Y too often, that's the industry's problem. Not Y's.

I'm not saying that's bad. Being a Y person is fine but that belittling Xs is wrong, as said before I simply started exploiting the system.

On the other hand I hate preorder bonuses and I hate that people continue to enable it.

If I buy a game day 1 I want the complete game after all I'm paying full price. Preorder boni (as well as exclusive stuff) aren't adding to a game they are just taking away from others.

I hate when the first footage of a game includes footage of preorder content at the end.

 

[Beatrix]

Considering the business trends in the industry we see today, think it will continue to happen for a while. They know theres millions of consumers who are willing to pay for their product day one and continue to pay for the DLC over the course of the game's lifespan. I think the most extreme case of this is the Call of Duty series. Obviously for some games this model doesn't work as well, but it's sure becoming that way for all genres. (Pre-order now and get X, Y, Z items in the game!)

From a consumer financial point of view it only makes sense to buy games months after release to get the best deal, and functionality in a game. Unfortunately, most people just love getting shit day one.

 

[Bedameister]

It's also pretty easy if you're a part of decent communities like GAF that are diligent about spoiler tags. I managed to avoid TLoU spoilers for a year before I had a chance to finally play the game

I'm still dodging TLOU spoilers (but I think I have a presumption on what will happen) but I think I was pretty good at it.
Other than avoiding spoilers I think I only have advantages in the Y team. Yeah sure with multiplayer games it doesn't really work but I haven played a MP game in a long time.
It's just great to get finished patched games with all content for a decent price

 

[garginator850]

If you get a game that is focused on online features and multiplayer then you get the fresh full experience with a rather large community compared to months later where you have only the people who have been playing for months and other people who get it on sale (which is smaller number obviously than the day 1 people)

 

[Five]

I like supporting devs, so I gladly buy games in the opening week. The only case in which I'll buy a game well after release is if I wasn't aware of it prior or didn't think I'd like it but something changed my mind.

 

[danmaku]

Team Y for life. Once you savored the sweet sweet taste of cheap excellent games you never go back. Unless the game is cheap from day 1.

 

[oni-link]

With Nintendo the X and Y concept generally doesn't work. If you want a physical copy, and wait too long, you might not get one at all or have to settle for digital. And more often than not Nintendo games don't go down in price. They just kinda disappear from shelves and go out of print.

This is what actually stopped me from getting a Wii U this xmas, all the reports of the games going out of print, coupled with no account system and a tiny internal harddrive

I'll wait till their next system and hope they have it backwards compatible and that it sells enough to warrant good print runs, or that it at least has an account system