Caesar III
Member
THIS x 10000!szaromir said:
Ulukai ftw
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Why don't games create original worlds anymore?
- Thread starter Chuck Norris
- Start date
Ulukai ftw
Dr. Muganda
Banned
Well except for that flying castle thing the world and soundtrack was a slight influence... at least I remember it that way.GCX said:
have games ever really created their 'own' worlds?
where's the line? most games have borrowed from famous books and such. pretty much every RPG borrows heavily from other sources.
if it's just a matter of not being earth based, there's plenty of those. if it's alternate reality, then pretty much every game is in it's own world.
where's the line? most games have borrowed from famous books and such. pretty much every RPG borrows heavily from other sources.
if it's just a matter of not being earth based, there's plenty of those. if it's alternate reality, then pretty much every game is in it's own world.
Fimbulvetr
Member
Mike G.E.D. said:
Making detailed world is more awesome than either.
Quite a few a of the world mentioned here are awesome, but I'd like to add Ivalice(specially in XII).
I think there are plenty of original worlds out there, most of them are just not every interesting to look at or fully realized.
I think Ueda's games are pretty creative in terms of original worlds, at least within the video game market. I don't see many incan and mayan inspired architecture in games very often. P
I think Ueda's games are pretty creative in terms of original worlds, at least within the video game market. I don't see many incan and mayan inspired architecture in games very often. P
hbkajshdvfbkjhvgkahsgdfka
Member
http://aion.wikia.com/wiki/Atreia
Although it's not super original, the story for the world and how it came to be is pretty awesome.
Although it's not super original, the story for the world and how it came to be is pretty awesome.
ConcealedBlaze
Member
Gorgon said:
That's weird. I really didn't find it creatively dead. Seemed like a truly realistic world with some really unique deviations from fantasy tropes. Much more original than Mass Effect at least.
Skies of Arcadia had a wonderful world. Other worlds of note for me, are the modern Phantasy Star games, and Tales of Vesperia.
I'm glad that most Japanese games still take place in worlds instantly recognizeable as "fantasy". Even more detailed, semi-realistic games like Final Fantasy XII. There's very little in Gears of War, that makes it feel like a world detached from our own.
On the western side of things, though, I'd love to see a big budget Avatar: The Last Airbender game. It really impressed me in the show, how deeply their bending skills were into integrated into their everyday lives. To me, that's a big note about selling a worlds history; having unique elements that actually shaped the growth of it's inhanitants.
I guess games now-a-days come with too many tradeoffs. We trade graphic detail for graphic originality. We trade Original stories for well fleshed out rehashes. We trade strong singleplayer for multiplayer in nearly every title.
Of course, this is where downloadable content begins to shine. Groups like Twisted Pixel, or The Behemoth, make some pretty interesting characters and worlds. They might be "bite-sized" compared to $60 epics, but I'm glad we have non-eastern studios that can produce such works.
(And High Five to the Naussica stuff. Would love a game in that world, or almost anything Ghibli.)
I'm glad that most Japanese games still take place in worlds instantly recognizeable as "fantasy". Even more detailed, semi-realistic games like Final Fantasy XII. There's very little in Gears of War, that makes it feel like a world detached from our own.
On the western side of things, though, I'd love to see a big budget Avatar: The Last Airbender game. It really impressed me in the show, how deeply their bending skills were into integrated into their everyday lives. To me, that's a big note about selling a worlds history; having unique elements that actually shaped the growth of it's inhanitants.
I guess games now-a-days come with too many tradeoffs. We trade graphic detail for graphic originality. We trade Original stories for well fleshed out rehashes. We trade strong singleplayer for multiplayer in nearly every title.
Of course, this is where downloadable content begins to shine. Groups like Twisted Pixel, or The Behemoth, make some pretty interesting characters and worlds. They might be "bite-sized" compared to $60 epics, but I'm glad we have non-eastern studios that can produce such works.
(And High Five to the Naussica stuff. Would love a game in that world, or almost anything Ghibli.)
ConcealedBlaze
Member
SAB CA said:
See. I'm the polar opposite. I rarely, rarely find the eastern/japanese style of world building to be interesting. It's interesting how widely opinions can fluctuate
Mike G.E.D. said:
No, Gears 'nailed its setting' by creating a world that looked like 'early 21st century earth, just with monsters and big muscle dudes with wicked cool guns' so as not to alienate the meathead crowd. I don't think a deep, well-developed setting was something most of the people who bought the game were going out of their way to look for.
elrechazado
Banned
Wrong. Gears captured the destroyed beauty theme that permeates the game perfectly. whether the game is just another shooter or anything else you want to say about it, the world has nothing to do with appealing to meatheads.Tellaerin said:No, Gears 'nailed its setting' by creating a world that looked like 'early 21st century earth, just with monsters and big muscle dudes with wicked cool guns' so as not to alienate the meathead crowd. I don't think a deep, well-developed setting was something most of the people who bought the game were going out of their way to look for.
elrechazao said:
Bullshit. The world design is extremely, calculatedly safe, deliberately eschewing overly fantastical elements to create a more 'relatable' world for mainstream audiences. The 'destroyed beauty' theme doesn't negate the fact that the setting comes off about as exotic and alien to the average American as some obscure corner of Europe, with a sprinkling of 'cool stuff' added.
This isn't about art direction - the art in Gears is superb - it's about building creative and original worlds. And you can't deny that developers have increasingly been playing it safe, even in games with ostensibly science fiction or fantasy settings.
POWERSPHERE
Member
Jive Turkey said:
We need more games where we place as we do a want. C'mon, lets place! Place time!
ConcealedBlaze
Member
Tellaerin said:
Actually... you can deny it. And I do.
Bioshock
Bayonetta
Half-life 2
Shadow of the Colossus
etc.
Tons of modern games have unique, enthralling worlds. Maybe mainstream development plays it safer, but that's always to be expected in any medium.
forgeforsaken
Member
PuppetSlave said:
Yeah, might be the lack of pictures, maybe this will help
ConcealedBlaze said:
Then you're in denial.
Compared to even a decade ago, I'd say the percentage of games set in the real world (or some close facsimile thereof) has increased sharply compared to the number with more fantastical or exotic settings.It's not that creative world-building in games has vanished altogether. I'm just saying that I think it's fallen off sharply in recent years, particularly on consoles. With development costs soaring, it seems like most developers and publishers are reluctant to take chances, so they're trying to tweak their output to be more appealing to 'mainstream' gamers. I can understand the economic sense of it, but that doesn't mean I have to like the idea.
Neuromancer
Member
YESoracrest said:I always loved this one.
ConcealedBlaze
Member
Tellaerin said:Then you're in denial.
It's not that creative world-building in games has vanished altogether. I'm just saying that I think it's fallen off sharply in recent years, particularly on consoles. With development costs soaring, it seems like most developers and publishers are reluctant to take chances, so they're trying to tweak their output to be more appealing to 'mainstream' gamers. I can understand the economic sense of it, but that doesn't mean I have to like the idea.
World building has become a much more complex task in recent years, since more is usually expected of developers. As a result the worlds are much more full. I do think this has lead to some developers turning towards a more realistic world, but I also don't think it's anywhere near a trend.
I think it just seems that way because back in the beginning of video game development all it took was some unique looking sprites and backgrounds to create an original world.
And I'd like to see some of your examples, since for every zelda or final fantasy you cite I can call up a Zeno Clash, Bioshock, The Void or even Prince of Persia (the most recent one).
It seems to me like you're just being the quintessential decrier of modern times who present in every generation. There will always be someone who worries that our current generation is going to hell, people are getting stupider, or our art is getting dumbed down. Nostalgia can do that.
And I've yet to see you cite examples of the phenomenon you're so worried is occurring.
ZephyrFate
Banned
Prerequisite post:
PLAY THE VOID
FUCK
GOD
DAMMIT
IT'S HALF OFF ON STEAM FOR LIKE TWO MORE DAYS OR SOME SHIT
PLAY THE VOID
FUCK
GOD
DAMMIT
IT'S HALF OFF ON STEAM FOR LIKE TWO MORE DAYS OR SOME SHIT
ConcealedBlaze said:
So can perspective. Some people in every generation seem to take it as a given that their particular era represents the pinnacle of civilization and that anything new must be an improvement over what went before, when that's not always the case. It sounds like you're invested in proving me wrong because you don't like me challenging the idea that 'games are better now than they've ever been, in every possible way'.
Sometimes changes are for the better. Sometimes they're for the worse. And in a lot of cases, they're a mixed bag. This shift towards more 'realistic' themes probably falls into that category. It's great for the people who are partial to those themes. For me, they're a sidelight rather than my main interest, so on a personal level, I see it as a negative.
ConcealedBlaze said:
How many FPS's set in WW II/the Middle East/another-real-world-location-where-military-guys-shoot-the-fuck-out-of-each-other are there, again? How popular are they with today's gamers? How big were those a decade ago, relative to other genres? How about action games with real-world settings? How about realistic racers with licensed cars and tracks vs. arcade-style racing? The shift from more fantastic settings and themes to more realistic ones over the last few years is all just 'nostalgia' on the part of everyone who's remarked on it?
I'm sorry, I'm not one of these OCD types who's going to make a list of all the games released in 1999 and all those in 2009, break them down into 'real world', 'clearly real world-inspired but with some fantasy/sci-fi elements thrown in', or 'original sci-fi or fantasy-themed world where the creators weren't afraid to deviate from "familiar" imagery and themes in substantial ways' and make pie charts comparing the two as 'proof'. I will tell you I think the third group isn't nearly as well-represented now as it used to be on consoles. (There's still handhelds, and the indie gaming scene.) Obviously something is giving other people that impression too, or this topic wouldn't exist.
faceless007
Member
The "world" of Half-Life 2 is Eastern fucking Europe. I love the design and research put into the game, but an original fantastic world it is not.ConcealedBlaze said:
Two of those examples are from miniscule indie teams and one is based on a 20-year-old IP. Not exactly a ringing endorsement that mainstream devs today are interested in creating new worlds. And if those are the best examples you can give, then I call bullshit that there's an equivalent number of major original-world games this gen than there have been in the past.ConcealedBlaze said:
I said this already but it seems to have been ignored: anyone who thinks a lot of today's games have original worlds needs to go back and play any of the Myst games, or The Longest Journey, or Giants: Citizen Kabuto, or Oddworld, or The Dig, or Sanitarium. I can even name several great ones from the last gen: Psychonauts, Beyond Good & Evil, Scrapland. But those didn't sell that well and I can't think of many with that level of originality this gen.
I'll concede that the question seems poorly-formed, since what "world" means in this context has not been defined. I'm explicitly excluding any games that take place on Earth, even a futuristic Earth (Deus Ex, Mirror's Edge), for example.
BattleMonkey
Member
Chuck Norris said:
But your saying stuff like Zelda is original and another world to you when it's largely just fantasy mythos tossed together like so many other games?
Yeah we have one. As for a reason its because it has to be harder to make a connection with the player. If there are some its a small game that doesn't have much umph to it Flower is a great example of it being done well I just wish we had it more. Deadly Creatures is another but haven't played it. They are just far and few between.Raist said:
Just like making a world that is pretty much the one we are in now with everything explained in common knowledge and then just filling in a few of the blanks.
FunkyPajamas
Member
You just want an avatar quote, right?ZephyrFate said:
Kind of surprised no one has mentioned Boletaria (Demon's Souls)
ConcealedBlaze
Member
faceless007 said:
Apparently we define "world" very differently. To me Half-life 2's cross-dimensional, Orwellian state combined with the mysterious G-man and futuristic setting that seems to evolve technology in a fairly likely manner classifies as unique. Don't get me started on the fact that Nihilanth was simply fleeing from the Combine, and was just as much a victim as an antagonist. Yes it takes place on Earth but that hardly means that it's not an original world. I mean hell, that's like saying Cormack Mcarthy's The Road isn't an original world because it's still on earth.
So what exactly classifies Psychonauts (a game developed by a independent studio and published by a big company such as Majesco) as mainstream, but The Void (a game developed by a independent studio and published by a big company such as Atari) as indie? You're just splitting hairs based on sales. There is virtually no difference between the two. And if you truly write off PoP because it has the same name as games in the franchise that have come before it, you're wrong. PoP 2008 takes place in an entirely different world that's pretty fully realized (regardless of your gameplay preferences). It's ridiculously fantastical and original, yet you say it doesn't qualify because of a name and some basic thematic links?
You're simply looking for reasons to write off games. They definitely exist.
VoteForPedro
Member
Just look at it man, it's Beautiful and grotesque at the same time!
Also Machinarium has a pretty imaginative world as well
They're the kind of settings I wish I could study up on. Too bad neither of the games go into much detail on how their worlds work
Version 3.0
Member
I think, and this thread clearly demonstrates, that they do still have plenty of original worlds. A better question might be: "why are reality-mimicking games more popular than games set elsewhere now?", but even that's a dodgy proposition, particularly with Nintendo's software selling so well. Very few of their popular games are set in anything resembling reality.
ZephyrFate
Banned
yeah kind ofFunkyPajamas said:You just want an avatar quote, right?
Kind of surprised no one has mentioned Boletaria (Demon's Souls)
faceless007
Member
The OP specifically asked for games that create an entire world from scratch and have no basis in our reality. HL2 quite obviously doesn't count as it's an alternate future of Earth. Sure it has some original plot elements and design ideas, but I don't think anyone claimed there was a dearth of games with original ideas (well, maybe they have, but not in this thread).ConcealedBlaze said:
I think you're confusing "setting" with "world." You seem to be arguing that any game that extrapolates a future Earth in any way different from today's creates a new world. Hell, interpreted broadly enough, even Modern Warfare could qualify.
Psychonauts was published worldwide on multiple platforms and was a much higher-profile title than The Void, a game only retail-published in a handful of European countries (Atari only published in Germany) on PC and which would be largely unknown in the West if not for Steam. I'm not differentiating based on sales, I'm differentiating based on developer profile, as the argument has to do in part with which types of games are more high-profile, get more developer resources and publisher support--not just how many exist. That said, if you want to insist The Void should count, I'm all for it. It still doesn't do much for the general picture of gaming today (but neither did Psychonauts).
Haven't played it so I just assumed it was a reboot of the same IP. Reading the Wiki, it seems that it's basically an entirely new game with the PoP name slapped onto it, so maybe it's more original than I assumed, though I'm still not sure if it fits the OP's criterion of being a new world from scratch with no obvious human influence.
That said, you've given 2 AAA examples. You said "for every zelda or final fantasy you cite I can call up a Zeno Clash, Bioshock, The Void or even Prince of Persia (the most recent one)". I'm not sure you thought that statement through or you would realize you have to name 12 FF + 7 Zeldas* = 19 games this gen that create whole new worlds. Add the 11 PC games I named, and I'm just not seeing them. Perhaps my standards are too high and I'm yearning for something with the originality of the Myst games (whole new worlds in each game!) or Grim Fandango, and instead see military shooters, sci-fi lite and hyper-realistic crime games galore.
*To be perfectly honest, including Zelda in this topic seems arguable to me. While I like the games, it's a pretty obvious mishmash of Tolkien-esque locales and nature themes--the idea basically came from Miyamoto's childhood explorations of the wilderness.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Lunar is still the best original world created. ^_^
This too is a well conceived world. I just got into Ar Tonelico recently and have found myself being sucked into its world.
luka said:
This too is a well conceived world. I just got into Ar Tonelico recently and have found myself being sucked into its world.
Dr. Muganda
Banned
I want worlds like this again in gaming
ConcealedBlaze said:
Aye, truly. I love it when I find a western game that connects with me, but sadly, it never seems to stick. I always feel like, at their best, that they pull me into their worlds while I play, but there's nothing I'd REALLY like to think or dream about when away from the game.
It's always made me wish there where some Eastern Sandbox games. I guess the closest I can think of are the Way of the Samurai / Kenka Bancho games, even the Yakuza games. Which are all deeply invested in realistic settings. Which is a shame, a world-focused adventure set in somehting like the Mana universe, could be quite compelling.
gamergirly
Member
Dr. Muganda said:I want worlds like this again in gaming
Isnt that Secret of Mana? Dont remember
Ze_Pershing
Member
I can't help but think about Avatar when reading OP's title. I'm not thinking about graphical beauty of that movie, but the world that was created for it.
Manmademan
Member
bdouble said:
Okami for a second one.
gutter_trash
Banned
the saddest direction is where 3D Sonics went
2D Genesis Sonic were set on its own world and style and had its distinc look
3D Sonic came down to our Earth with generic cities, generic setting and had generic HUMAN NPCs!!??? WTF?
2D Genesis Sonic were set on its own world and style and had its distinc look
3D Sonic came down to our Earth with generic cities, generic setting and had generic HUMAN NPCs!!??? WTF?