Iorv3th
Member
Doesn't that sword wear down really quickly? That may be why you are doing so little damage to bosses when you reach them.
Also really important to get back stabs on as many normal enemies as you can.
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Why Don't I love Demon's Souls?
- Thread starter Molemitts
- Start date
Doesn't that sword wear down really quickly? That may be why you are doing so little damage to bosses when you reach them.
Also really important to get back stabs on as many normal enemies as you can.
When I say fantasy I mean putting it under a very broad spectrum of "weird crazy not from actual history shit". Seeth, everything crystal, "dark" shit like Manus, the Humanity sprites, the weird crazy armors like Ornstein, Lautrec, giant lava world and the chaos demons. I wouldn't put them with typical ideas of medieval fantasy and I like the more conservative style of Demon's Souls. I like the more grim, dark, and dreary tone of Demon's Souls. It doesn't push grandeur and "fantasy" like Dark Souls does.
That's what I mean when I say fantasy.
I never said it was typical fantasy. I specifically said it was just very different. I get the appeal but I prefer Demon's Souls aesthetic. Bloodborne is (mostly?) leaning on that again given that it is probably just Demon's Souls 2.
Sanctuary
Member
Did you play Demon's after Dark 1&2? If so, that might be your issue since you started the series after it had changed the level design. Demon's was my first, and I still enjoy it (in some ways more, some ways less) than Dark, but I replay Dark quite a bit more. I'm also not sure if Demon's is harder or not. A lot of people claimed Dark was, but I felt it was easier overall mostly because the skills from Demon's transfer over. Dark didn't really have "difficult" boss fights outside the bromancers until the DLC.
Oh, and Dark didn't have a Maneater or Flamelurker, even though it had Maneater mk 2 (which was much, much easier overall). Flamelurker is still one of the more annoying early bosses, even after you've finished the game a few times. Doing it without the PFS is just a chore. The Capra demon is the closest thing Dark has to an early game "wall" your first time through.
Oh, and Dark didn't have a Maneater or Flamelurker, even though it had Maneater mk 2 (which was much, much easier overall). Flamelurker is still one of the more annoying early bosses, even after you've finished the game a few times. Doing it without the PFS is just a chore. The Capra demon is the closest thing Dark has to an early game "wall" your first time through.
Sentenza
Member
You don't need either. That's the point.
Running is more than enough as far as you are on your way to the top and a well timed roll can make you avoid the arrow from the archer in front of you when you are close, even if completely naked.
It does wear down quicker, but my sword isn't broken and I keep on top of repairing it.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
If you go in expecting short corpse runs in a Souls game, you're already a worse enemy of yourself than any boss.
Also, the PvP experience has went down and the combat clunk has went up as the series went on. Troof.
Also, the PvP experience has went down and the combat clunk has went up as the series went on. Troof.
Deified Data
Banned
It's missing some of the nicer quality of life aspects of Dark Souls but with 10x more atmosphere. Personally I think the trade off is worth it.
Good to know my point completely went over your head. I never said it was impossible, I am saying Dark Souls is full of BS OHKO surprises you cannot avoid by being patient or seeing hints. When I passed Anor Lando, I think "well that was shit"/"finally".
In Demon's Souls, providing you used the correct strategy and didn't brute force Old Hero, I think "OHHHHHH I SEE"/"that was supposed to easy haha".
Dark Souls wants you to be a master of the, purposely clunky, movement and combat system to pass, not use your head to figure out the puzzle.
Only thing that comes close in Dark Souls is punching that bosses grip off so he falls haha
Sanctuary
Member
That's precisely how I feel about it too. It makes me wonder if Souls May Cry is going to be a nice combination of the two.
No it isn't. Using the worst offender as a generality is a pretty weak argument anyway.
Sentenza
Member
It's not that "it went over my head", it's more that I just don't think your "point" holds any factual truth.
So you think Anor Lando wasn't forcing people to die at least once, just because it was a new encounter? Did you pass it first try?
The fact that you know about that area specifically but can't tell ne a strat other than perfectly timing dodges otherwise OHKO proves my point.
I'm not getting the atmosphere of the game either. In Dark Souls, the world felt like it used to be alive, before everything got fucked up by the undead cruse. The atmosphere feels more real, in my opinion.
In Demon's Souls, it just feels darker. Tower of Latria felt nice (Well, I wouldn't call it nice, but you get what I mean!), but that's about it, to be honest.
In Demon's Souls, it just feels darker. Tower of Latria felt nice (Well, I wouldn't call it nice, but you get what I mean!), but that's about it, to be honest.
Sanctuary
Member
Both the archers and Bed of Chaos were the two "bad" areas of the game. Demon's had a lot more annoying aspects than that, and I have no idea why you're trying to pass off Demon's as some kind of "thinking man's" game and Dark as just a full bore action game. They aren't that different.
Dark feels more "alive" as you said, while Demon's is a hell of a lot more oppressive and desolate even. The atmosphere is almost palpable. I think which order you played the games matters too. When Demon's first arrived the only thing it could really be compared to was the King's Field games (which was the king of atmosphere and strangeness).
Sentenza
Member
No, I didn't. But I learned from my mistakes and now I know it's entirely possible.
I also have seen others who are better than me doing it.
I also don't think that "passing things at the first try" is the prerequisite to prove something to be good. And dying isn't the end of the world either.
Well, there are *several* working strategies, actually. You even mentioned two of them yourself. I just said that none of those was "required" and one of them not even optimal.
You are also stressing the "perfectly timed dodge" as if it was something incredibly demanding, when it isn't. It's not like you need to nail the exact millisecond to dodge.
It's not that punishing. You have a window of almost half second to do it properly.
Sanctuary
Member
If that were the case, not many people would consider Demon's and Dark good since they are probably the two most well known "trial and error" type modern games.
My point being that Demon's Souls, second playthrough, is easy to 0 Death for pretty much everyone. Perhaps you could just count it as "easier" but it made the messages system perfectly interesting.
If you are saying you can still fail the Archers, then my point stands. They removed real penalty to dying because it happens a lit in Dark Souls.
To address the post above by another member, there aren't any bogus areas of Demon's Souls. The Vanguard at the beginning is basically what Dark Souls is. It isn't too difficult for me, but it doesn't feel as rewarding because of it.
I also find stats are far more important in Dark Souls than Demon's Souls. I have Dark on my 360, I bought it digitally, but fuck finishing it. I'm not here to say one sucks over the other, but they focus on very different things.
Dark Souls should have had more hints, instead they put in so many OHKO opportunities and felt that the messages should fill in the players, rather than intelligent hints.
Demon's Souls was a masterpiece giving us a game that appears to be hard, but is actually the easiest action game to complete.
It is harder in there is less room for error. The bonfire, estus and changes like having a full health bar when dead had a considerable impact. I'd argue the boss AI is far more aggressive, but I realize that is more subjective. Although Flamelurker does go berserk, and I can't recall any bosses in the other games doing that.
Anyway. Unchi isn't the best weapon when starting out. Dex build less so. Armor makes little difference either way. Carry weight has a big impact, and I'd argue stats matter more earlier than the other games.
If you want to cheese - There's a longsword in 2-2 that will make NG fairly trivial, even moreso that the magic falch in 4-1. Beyond that, the M. Hammer is amazingly good compared to the other games.
There are quite a few short cuts. 2-2 in particular has one. Go right at the start, drop down the ledges. Its a little tricky but it drops you not too far from the boss. 4-2 and 1-4 are the only areas I'd say have a long run back.
I'm not sure how active the game is these days, but I feel like part of the charm is lost when you aren't constantly invaded. That constant threat pushing you forward, combined with the atmosphere and challenge just created an experience that I've really not seen in game before or since. When I finally made it to the end, it resonated a bit more after all the killing and being killed. It felt like a real end.
Dark souls wasn't the same. if I died, well, there was a bonfire not too far back.
Anyway. Unchi isn't the best weapon when starting out. Dex build less so. Armor makes little difference either way. Carry weight has a big impact, and I'd argue stats matter more earlier than the other games.
If you want to cheese - There's a longsword in 2-2 that will make NG fairly trivial, even moreso that the magic falch in 4-1. Beyond that, the M. Hammer is amazingly good compared to the other games.
There are quite a few short cuts. 2-2 in particular has one. Go right at the start, drop down the ledges. Its a little tricky but it drops you not too far from the boss. 4-2 and 1-4 are the only areas I'd say have a long run back.
I'm not sure how active the game is these days, but I feel like part of the charm is lost when you aren't constantly invaded. That constant threat pushing you forward, combined with the atmosphere and challenge just created an experience that I've really not seen in game before or since. When I finally made it to the end, it resonated a bit more after all the killing and being killed. It felt like a real end.
Dark souls wasn't the same. if I died, well, there was a bonfire not too far back.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
No its not. You can simply roll through all his attacks. Get close to him, put shield up and wait for the over head slam. Attack when he's on the floor and run when he does the AoE move. Rinse and repeat, its not difficult or cheap in any sense. You don't even need to dodge his fire attacks if you have the purple flame shield.
Flamelurker's shortcut has little to do with the boss. Like I said you're skipping the entire level, a difficult one at that, so the shortcut better be punishing.
Millsington
Member
If you are still struggling with 2-2, you can make it to the boss only having to kill 1 or 2 enemies with minor fall damage. Take the left tunnel and kill the dancing fireball guy (think he always drops a full grass or 2), go down the elevator, take the exit that goes to the open ledges and lava. Make your way down to the bottom and run past the worms in front of the tunnels. Lure the big bug down and then run around and past him. Make your way up to the chamber. Think there is one big bug you have to kill to get through.
Will take a little longer but there's minor fall damage, guaranteed grass, and two enemies killed.
I agree with the hate of the swamp world, but otherwise I loved the rest of the game. Hang in there!
Will take a little longer but there's minor fall damage, guaranteed grass, and two enemies killed.
I agree with the hate of the swamp world, but otherwise I loved the rest of the game. Hang in there!
DON'T GIVE UP, OP
Flamelurker is the skill check moment of the game. He actually gets even more aggressive once you get him below 50% health or so. Persevere, keep challenging him. The shortcut is actually pretty easy. I'm assuming you die by the end of it when you need to land on the larva shells. Don't even roll towards the ledge where the shells are, but instead roll toward the wooden pathway in front of you. It might take you a couple of tries to find the sweet spot, but you'll get it down eventually.
You can actually buy an infinite amount of large sharpstones at the dirty vendor in the Flamlurker level, to get your uchigatana to +6 or 7.
The manta rays in 4-1 and 4-2 wont bother you nearly as much if you equip the thief's ring.
Flamelurker is the skill check moment of the game. He actually gets even more aggressive once you get him below 50% health or so. Persevere, keep challenging him. The shortcut is actually pretty easy. I'm assuming you die by the end of it when you need to land on the larva shells. Don't even roll towards the ledge where the shells are, but instead roll toward the wooden pathway in front of you. It might take you a couple of tries to find the sweet spot, but you'll get it down eventually.
You can actually buy an infinite amount of large sharpstones at the dirty vendor in the Flamlurker level, to get your uchigatana to +6 or 7.
The manta rays in 4-1 and 4-2 wont bother you nearly as much if you equip the thief's ring.
I think your point that stats matter more in Dark Souls is accurate, and thats a fair reason to dislike Dark over Demons.
But your Anor Londo archer example really doesn't hold water. That part really isn't the death trap its meant to be. I didn't know it was coming, but I had already purchased poison arrows and had a bow, so it seemed like a natural fit for my dex character. When I tried it with my pure physical build, I dodged the arrows on my first try, no problem.
Its a tough location, but it isn't the "cheap/gamebreaking" section you're making it out to be.
SSWerwolf777
Neo Member
I just started getting into this series a few months ago; compulsion dictated that I start at this game, Demon's Souls.
I too went as a dex build. I too wanted to use that Uchigatana... after a short period of use (and degradation,) I switched over to the only other dex weapon I had with good range- Winged Spear. After that switch I stopped carrying the Uchi around.
I'd heard about using 100% shield prior.. had been using that heater shield or w/e the first 100% was, but couldn't really work out the parrying frequently enough to use it. Again, I tried the other 100% I had- Steel Shield. (Not having a heavy 100% in DS without like 25+ str was a very rude find, indeed.)
That first encounter with Armor Spider I used every last grass I had and never killed it! With souls lost to that boss room, and not a blade of grass left, I went back to 1-1 and discovered a fast soul/grass farming run (up the first shortcut you make on the left, back to the red eyes by the old king, suicide on the stairs you took up) that takes maybe 10min including loading time after suicide. Later in the game 1-3 to 1-4 is a brilliant stretch for quick grass and souls, should the need arise. I'd not waste my souls buying grass.
That combo of Winged Spear + Steel Shield, Compound Longbow and Executioner Miralda armor, got me just past Flamelurker in NG++ before I max upgraded a few other weapons to check out.
Running through that game, poking everything to death seemed lame at first.. and I suppose it is. But I survived.. thrived even. That is when it clicked for me: the first game, for myself anyway, where it actually made sense to employ being defensive and evasive, just carefully offensive, because the enemy was actually tough and stood a chance without being cheap or gimmicky.. and I've been playing fight games since SF2 came out for snes when I was 9, tanking in mmos since ps2 launch of FFXI. I'd never needed to be so focused on defense and cautiously optimistic about my offensive chances.
I've since carried that same build and weapon into each subsequent Souls game I've played. Wasn't great in DS or DS2, as it feels much less tight n snappy + the enemy seems much more dmg spongy + it does fuckall against poise. Each game forced me to rethink my play style and consider builds, weapons, and tactics I wouldn't have before.
That's why I fell in love with Demon's Souls.. it shook me. It created a change in mindset for the first time in 20+ years that wasn't driven by just getting past a certain area or boss. To go from unrelenting offense = defense, to approaching every enemy cautiously in every other game I've played since? That took something special.
Also......... Maiden in Black is best waifu :3
I too went as a dex build. I too wanted to use that Uchigatana... after a short period of use (and degradation,) I switched over to the only other dex weapon I had with good range- Winged Spear. After that switch I stopped carrying the Uchi around.
I'd heard about using 100% shield prior.. had been using that heater shield or w/e the first 100% was, but couldn't really work out the parrying frequently enough to use it. Again, I tried the other 100% I had- Steel Shield. (Not having a heavy 100% in DS without like 25+ str was a very rude find, indeed.)
That first encounter with Armor Spider I used every last grass I had and never killed it! With souls lost to that boss room, and not a blade of grass left, I went back to 1-1 and discovered a fast soul/grass farming run (up the first shortcut you make on the left, back to the red eyes by the old king, suicide on the stairs you took up) that takes maybe 10min including loading time after suicide. Later in the game 1-3 to 1-4 is a brilliant stretch for quick grass and souls, should the need arise. I'd not waste my souls buying grass.
That combo of Winged Spear + Steel Shield, Compound Longbow and Executioner Miralda armor, got me just past Flamelurker in NG++ before I max upgraded a few other weapons to check out.
Running through that game, poking everything to death seemed lame at first.. and I suppose it is. But I survived.. thrived even. That is when it clicked for me: the first game, for myself anyway, where it actually made sense to employ being defensive and evasive, just carefully offensive, because the enemy was actually tough and stood a chance without being cheap or gimmicky.. and I've been playing fight games since SF2 came out for snes when I was 9, tanking in mmos since ps2 launch of FFXI. I'd never needed to be so focused on defense and cautiously optimistic about my offensive chances.
I've since carried that same build and weapon into each subsequent Souls game I've played. Wasn't great in DS or DS2, as it feels much less tight n snappy + the enemy seems much more dmg spongy + it does fuckall against poise. Each game forced me to rethink my play style and consider builds, weapons, and tactics I wouldn't have before.
That's why I fell in love with Demon's Souls.. it shook me. It created a change in mindset for the first time in 20+ years that wasn't driven by just getting past a certain area or boss. To go from unrelenting offense = defense, to approaching every enemy cautiously in every other game I've played since? That took something special.
Also......... Maiden in Black is best waifu :3
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I played through it my first time with a faith build and felt invincible I enjoyed it but it was easy as hell. Also I never understood why people said the maneaters are hard I beat them on my first try seeing them I just ran to the middle
DarkoMaledictus
Tier Whore
You have no SOUL...
Sanctuary
Member
When comparing it to virtually all of the rest of the game (sans BoC) it kind of is. It's the one spot that truly feels "cheap" even when you know how to get beyond it.
Because you don't see two when the fight initially starts, and there's more to that encounter than the middle. The middle is where you're forced to fight though if you don't want to get slingshotted off the side thanks to the very terrible camera and lockon for that fight in particular. The camera was giving me Ninja Gaiden flashbacks.
Not everyone went crazy on herb farming.
DarkoMaledictus
Tier Whore
Maneaters kicked my ass personally, probably started that fight 20 times... ended up cheesing one of them with arrows
.
I'm here for you, Yoshichan. We can squee over how perfect Demon's Souls is together.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Well like I said I did have a faith build so my hp regen was through the roof plus I did a crap ton of damage. I took that fight slowly and just keep my back to the fire.
It didnt help the game gave out herbs like candy on halloween
easy, powerful, ranged combat.
SSWerwolf777
Neo Member
I'm happy to point out that Vaati and the like are pushing an event the 2nd annual Return to the Nexus, beginning 3pm (us central) tomorrow! (10/26)
There's still plenty of life on the servers, but for the next month there should be a good amount more
Int builds are by far the easiest way to play the game while Faith builds are typically the hardest to kill.
Demon's Souls and Dark Souls are really different, though I did enjoy Demon's more. Probably because it had levels and architecture distinct to those levels. Even if Dark Souls flows naturally from one location to the next the placement of stuff still feels really abrupt.
Wenger'sBakedBaguettes
Member
Finished playing Demon's Souls before Dark Souls came out and loved everything about it. Haven't played Dark Souls yet...but hoping I will like it.
DarkoMaledictus
Tier Whore
Yep definitely another situation, in my case no herbs when I got there, no health regen and hit like a grandma
.It isn't game breaking, but it the most obvious example. My point is that there are many areas like it.
But tbh, people may have had a similar experience in Demon's, if they mussed all of the tricks, but Dark Souls piled so much of it from beginning to near end that I knew very well the devs made dying a core part of its design for the mere sake of it.
Polioliolio
Member
Your not the only one
I really hate Demon Souls.. I bought it and returned it the same day... Watching streamers play it now after 200+ hours in DS2 it looks like a shitty beta of the series... I hate the art direction even more....
I'm going through the same issues. I'm very early in the game, right after having gotten the ability to level up.
Lack of "bonfires", having to trek all the way through the area to reach a boss and the annoyance of continuously having to find grass makes this my least favorite of the souls series.
I wish I played this before DS and DSII. :/
Lack of "bonfires", having to trek all the way through the area to reach a boss and the annoyance of continuously having to find grass makes this my least favorite of the souls series.
I wish I played this before DS and DSII. :/
GifGafIsTheBestGaf
Member
i suppose you could try magic like others said, personally i went the big balls of fire route and persevered then reached a point were it didnt matter i was master of the universe
and i just have the same problem with dark souls, i felt it was way easier and just didnt hold my attention any longer (reason why i didnt buy DS2)... that and the stupid gimped full back up (fuck you sony for that)
oh yes, i forgot to mention i dunno if this still in effect but light or dark(cant remember if its called like that) states in the world really change the game. go for a white tendency or play offline
and i just have the same problem with dark souls, i felt it was way easier and just didnt hold my attention any longer (reason why i didnt buy DS2)... that and the stupid gimped full back up (fuck you sony for that)
oh yes, i forgot to mention i dunno if this still in effect but light or dark(cant remember if its called like that) states in the world really change the game. go for a white tendency or play offline
Sol_Goodguy
Member
I sort of feel the same way you do: I love Dark Souls, but only like Demon's Souls. Sure, there are a lot of similarities between the two, but there are a whole lot of differences as well. I'll talk about some of the things I dislike below. Disclaimer: I haven't played Demon's in a while and I'm going off the top of my head so I apologize for misinformation, if there is any.
Dark's estus system easily trumps Demon's grasses. Farming for grass after having completely run out was definitely one of the low points of my first playthrough. But farm too much and the difficultly nearly vanishes since a bunch grass combined with high HP and Second Chance results in near invincibility.
The weird gravity in Demon's is a turn off for me; it feels like slow motion which is in stark contrast to the speed of everything else. Trying to get on a downward going-elevator and overshooting the platform completely has happened to me a few times.
Fast attacking, high damage mobs can be frustrating to fight against, especially if you're trying to refight a boss that killed you. I seem to remember the flaming-spear guys in the swamp (5-2 I think?) one shotting me, or close to it. Dark is easy enough to beat at SL1, even easier with upgraded vitality. In Demon's, I feel vitality is so much more important due to the high damage.
World tendency growing darker if you die in human form is a design decision I strongly detest, considering there isn't an easy way to reverse the effects (for offline play anyways). At least there isn't any consequence for having a pure black world tendency in the nexus...
Dark's estus system easily trumps Demon's grasses. Farming for grass after having completely run out was definitely one of the low points of my first playthrough. But farm too much and the difficultly nearly vanishes since a bunch grass combined with high HP and Second Chance results in near invincibility.
The weird gravity in Demon's is a turn off for me; it feels like slow motion which is in stark contrast to the speed of everything else. Trying to get on a downward going-elevator and overshooting the platform completely has happened to me a few times.
Fast attacking, high damage mobs can be frustrating to fight against, especially if you're trying to refight a boss that killed you. I seem to remember the flaming-spear guys in the swamp (5-2 I think?) one shotting me, or close to it. Dark is easy enough to beat at SL1, even easier with upgraded vitality. In Demon's, I feel vitality is so much more important due to the high damage.
World tendency growing darker if you die in human form is a design decision I strongly detest, considering there isn't an easy way to reverse the effects (for offline play anyways). At least there isn't any consequence for having a pure black world tendency in the nexus...
The One Who Knocks
Member
While an Intelligence build will be easier if you're just going to use magic, personally, I find a Dexterity build to be the most enjoyable way to progress through the game as it is allows you to employ a highly offensive way through the game (admittedly, you can also take this strategy with other builds, but I find Dexterity offers the most enjoyment to me in utilising spacing, mastering the timing of attacks and dodges, and ensuring you have versatility in your arsenal), two-handedly wielding an Uchigatana, the Morion Blade, and the Cat's Ring (is that the name? The hyper-mode ring). Part of the problem, I feel, is that you are still employing a "Dark Souls" mindset to Demon's Souls, and while the core mechanics of the gameplay are very similar, the atmosphere and level design is absolutely not, and even the areas with similarities have some striking distinctions that you need to note.
The most obvious difference, in terms of the atmosphere, is that it is far more oppressive than Dark Souls. This carries across in the mechanics of the game, where death and being attacked is punished far more severely than Dark Souls with the lack of replenishment of health items upon death, losing a sizeable percentage of your health bar (if you died as a human, you should really be using Soul Form generally however; and subsequently being damaged more proportionally when hit), and respawning with more enemies between you and the boss than there typically are between a bonfire and a boss in Dark Souls. Due to this greater severity, you have two choices, you either must become far more adept with the dodging mechanics and the using the (oftentimes restricted) space between you and your opponent than you need to be in Dark Souls, or you need to be far more cautious in your approach (and even still, you need to become adequate with dodging consistently as certain areas like the Armour Spider and Latria will destroy you otherwise).
You say that bosses hit too hard, and you don't hit hard enough, but seemingly have not altered your strategy to accommodate this. If this is the case (and it is, enemies hit you very hard in Demon's Souls), you have less room for error and you need to stop being as aggressive in your playstyle as you currently are. You need to be content getting a single attack in at a time if you are unable to get in more without being hit (typically you can with something like the Uchigatana yet if you don't have the dodge timing off by heart yet, which seems highly probable given your difficulty with Armour Spider, you need to accept the fact that you're going to have to play more consistently over a longer period of time to defeat the bosses until you are able to play with a more aggressive style). Similarly, you really need to work on your spacing, so that you can find the optimal distance to remain away from enemies/bosses to avoid attacks (even without dodging if possible to conserve stamina) yet so that you can get in afterewards and take advantage of the pause in their attacks before retreating once again. Flamelurker, in particular, puts a huge amount of pressure on you and heavily emphasises spacing and movement to effectively defeat him. In Dark Souls, you've a little more leniancy for error, and can afford to be more aggressive, but you don't have the same degree of room to mess up in Demon's Souls in most cases.
You are level thirty at the moment, and you are unhappy with the amount of grass. If this is the case, you need to stop levelling up and turn your attention towards what you need, grass, and buy it. Soul management becomes quite an issue in Demon's Souls' early stage (in the later stages you end up with max everything) as grass needs to be bought in plentiful supply. If you find yourself regularly running out, buy it in bulk (if you need to buy it; it's very possible to not use it at all but that's much more challenging as you've little to no room for error). If you don't feel you're doing enough damage, you are going to need to upgrade your weapon. If you don't have enough items to upgrade your weapon, you're going to need to buy them in bulk, before getting the souls to upgrade your weapon. If you still aren't doing enough damage, you'll either need to repeat it, or begin upgrading your character, while also carefully analysing what exactly is serving as the greatest hinderance to your progressions (ultimately, you can finish the entire game at level one, so in upgrading you need to look at what you are having the most difficulty with and why, and how you want to try and compensate for the issue you are having; e.g. if you are too dodge-happy you may want to upgrade endurance so you can increase stamina, if you are too sloppy in your playstyle you may want to upgrade vitality so you can take more hits, if you don't have the patience and consistency for long fights with enemies you may want to upgrade a damage stat; this doesn't to imply that upgrading means you're 'bad' by any means, just that you need to see what it is that you are having issue with an upgrade accordingly to suit your needs while avoiding spreading your stats out nonchalantly to become a weak all-rounder).
The areas you comment often contain narrow passageways, and this is true to a degree, yet not only does this compliment the atmosphere of the game, but it also places an additional importance on your own ability to channel enemies, and fight them one at a time as you can't afford to fight them in large groups. With 1-2, 2-2, 3-1, 3-2, 4-2, and 5-1 (note that this is the level you erroneously are calling 4-1, the one with the rats and giants) being the only areas with notably small areas that you're fighting on, there's quite an even split between labyrinthian complexes of tiny passages and more expansive terrain. Most areas also contain a variety (3-2, for example, has the primary segment of tiny walkways but also has the bloody area you drop to in the cage, while even 3-1 has the slightly more open rooms and also the entire area outdoors leading to the church) to ensure that you are not always fighting in the same environment. The boss fights themselves also contain quite a mix between open areas (1-2), narrow walkways (3-2), and multi-storeyed areas (4-1), so it really does not seem like a justified comment that you're too often fighting in a restrictive environment as not only can you generally lead enemies into a more suitable open area, but you also have quite a variety of areas where you may be forced to confront enemies anyway. In addition, the areas themselves are much more substantial in terms of content. While yes, it is true that you've more areas in Dark Souls in total I would imagine, they are all much more restrictive in how much there is to uncover, explore, and see. The Upper Undead Burg in comparison to 1-1's initial area a comparison that serves quite striking. The shortcuts often require you to travel quite substantially before they can be opened, and even then can often be missed if you are not careful in your exploration of the areas, but are very substantial and can often put you closer to a boss's fog gate than the bonfires are located in Dark Souls.
To comment on World Four in particular, this area has very large open areas while the Manta Rays can attack you. Not only do they have visible attack cues, but they also have audio cues aswell, and you need to keep track of these and take note of how long it generally takes for a spear to reach you after a noise is heard so that you can dodge at the correct time. You need to multitask in managing your stamina between dodging them, dodging the enemy, and attacking the enemy, but this generally isn't too much of an annoyance. You can also use items to minimise the rate that they'll typically attack you.
Finally, it needs to be noted that the timing of dodges, attacks, and movement appear to be ever so slightly different between Demon's Souls and Dark Souls. While it's very slight, there does appear to be a difference (perhaps it's merely only visible and I'm crazy though) that will have an impact upon how you are playing the game. The timings of dodges, attacks, and movement in generally will not be precisely the same as they were in Dark Souls, and this could throw you substantially.
If you want to start again, by all means, but I don't think the problem is necessarily the build you've chosen and more to do with your style of playing, trying to tack advantage of the slight leniency Dark Souls offers in certain areas (often compensated for in other areas, such as the ability to be cursed, the increased number of times when you encounter groups of enemies in comparison to Demon's Souls, and the aggressive pursuits of enemies compared to Demon's Souls where they can quickly give up) that not only does not exist in Demon's Souls, but is also very heavily punished. I'm sorry that my solution is pretty much summed up by "you need to become more familiar with the mechanics of Demon's Souls, and need to become more competent in them" as I know nobody really wants to hear that and it can represent a somewhat elitist attitude at times, but I really do think a large portion of the issues your raising are not issues but an inability to abandon certain preconceptions and strategies that were developed by the sequels. It is also a good idea to, as another user suggested, consider your frame of mind and whether or not you are in the mood to attempt a very punishing game at this time.
(for acknowledgement, Demon's Souls is my favourite game in the Soul series, and I would indeed consider it the most difficult yet 'fairest', but I do not think this has too heavily impacted my judgement)
neoism
Member
its hard to explain lol not sure really who was the lead art director the same guy for Dark Souls... ????
Not saying creature design or world design was bad... they were awesome it was mostly character design and armor. I dont know really I just think and liked the grittiness of DS1 and even though DS2 is less than that I still LOOOVE the way armors and stuff is designed.... I really didn't like the DemS loading screen art.. :/
but like I said the game just didn't click with me... I may one day replay it.. still got my ps3.. but I just liked the art design waaay more in DS1 and DS2...
It also doesn't help that I've only played this series on PC other than DemS.. it looks pretty bad lol ... DS 2 looks insane with mods+sweetfx+60fps...
Demon's Souls is in my opinion both a harder and a less challenging game than Dark Souls. Demon's Souls' encounter design is simpler with less thought behind enemy placement and enemy move-sets, thus less time is needed for the player to learn each encounter and less skill is needed to defeat it. This is made up for with more enemies, more frequent cheap shots and more "required deaths" were you have to die at least once before solving the area. Demon's Souls also overall have longer distances between checkpoints leading to more punishing deaths, and furthermore multiple deaths can result in your health items running out, forcing you to farm healing items if you struggle with an encounter.
Demon's Souls by nature of being the first game in the Souls series is as you could expect less polished in some key series-defining areas, for example enemy attack animations can be quite janky compared to Dark Souls almost pixel perfect ones(blackknightswing.gif) with less clearly defined wind-up times and very "front-loaded" damage zones resulting in you taking surprise hits with little or no time to react. The ever important dodge roll is also less precise by only working in four directions instead of Dark Souls eight. These are things I think can throw of folks that played Dark Souls before Demon's Souls.
On the other hand Demon's Souls allow you to exploit its systems to make your character far more powerful than what is possible in Dark Souls. One early pushover-boss' spell grant you ridiculous damage reduction for over a minute another harder one give you a second chance if you die. Weapons can be enchanted to allow for high passive health regeneration or de facto infinite spell casts. Nearly instant and extremely powerful health restoration items can be farmed until you have a stack of 99(or two, if you have Pure Bladestone level patience). Many of these items and spells can be acquired early in the game without much difficulty, their power or the ease of access to them is much greater than similar items in Dark Souls. This is more in the vain of a traditional western rpg and can lessen the game's challenge greatly, though many players like creating really powerful builds so this can be both a good or a bad thing.
Demon's Souls' strengths compared to Dark Souls is primarily in my opinion in its consistency and its story. Throughout the game your characters motivations are better explored, revisited and challenged than in Dark Souls(Maiden Astrea is a standout moment) and so is the motivations of the supporting characters(The Maiden in Black's relation to The Old One, The Monummentals' reason for bringing you and everyone through the fog and imprisoning us in The Nexus). And while Dark Souls peaks 3/4 in, Demon's Souls in way picks up steam the further it goes resulting in a more satisfying third act and a better ending.
Demon's Souls by nature of being the first game in the Souls series is as you could expect less polished in some key series-defining areas, for example enemy attack animations can be quite janky compared to Dark Souls almost pixel perfect ones(blackknightswing.gif) with less clearly defined wind-up times and very "front-loaded" damage zones resulting in you taking surprise hits with little or no time to react. The ever important dodge roll is also less precise by only working in four directions instead of Dark Souls eight. These are things I think can throw of folks that played Dark Souls before Demon's Souls.
On the other hand Demon's Souls allow you to exploit its systems to make your character far more powerful than what is possible in Dark Souls. One early pushover-boss' spell grant you ridiculous damage reduction for over a minute another harder one give you a second chance if you die. Weapons can be enchanted to allow for high passive health regeneration or de facto infinite spell casts. Nearly instant and extremely powerful health restoration items can be farmed until you have a stack of 99(or two, if you have Pure Bladestone level patience). Many of these items and spells can be acquired early in the game without much difficulty, their power or the ease of access to them is much greater than similar items in Dark Souls. This is more in the vain of a traditional western rpg and can lessen the game's challenge greatly, though many players like creating really powerful builds so this can be both a good or a bad thing.
Demon's Souls' strengths compared to Dark Souls is primarily in my opinion in its consistency and its story. Throughout the game your characters motivations are better explored, revisited and challenged than in Dark Souls(Maiden Astrea is a standout moment) and so is the motivations of the supporting characters(The Maiden in Black's relation to The Old One, The Monummentals' reason for bringing you and everyone through the fog and imprisoning us in The Nexus). And while Dark Souls peaks 3/4 in, Demon's Souls in way picks up steam the further it goes resulting in a more satisfying third act and a better ending.
How'd you beat O&S? Summoning help or taking out Ornstein first makes the fight easier. As for those DeS bosses:
Flame Lurker was kinda glitchy and gave too many opportunities to attack. Wasn't too hard.
King Allant was a great boss fight, the best in the game and one of the best in the series. Didn't give me that "Yes!" moment when I beat him, though.
Old King Doran was just a regular NPC with a large health bar, nothing unique about fighting him.
Like others said though the perception of these games is affected by which you play first.
Many people praise the atmosphere of DeS, but personally I found DkS to be far more immersive. In large part it's thanks to the interconnected world. The lack of teleporting around makes it feel like you're on a real journey. Each step forward takes a commitment because you know that it's one step further from safety, should you need to return. This is reinforced early on by the ability to look back and see places you've come from off in the distance. Later, when you don't have landmarks you feel all the more isolated, for example during the descent through The Depths and Blighttown.
This strong sense of place makes discovering the larger shortcuts, those where huge sections of the world may be bypassed, feel amazingly rewarding because it gives you so much more power to navigate.
I also enjoyed the NPC interactions more in DkS. They are generally much more likeable, and though it's a fairly minor part of the game, the consistently bleak tone of their stories really helps to characterise the world. In comparison to Firelink, the Nexus feels static and soulless. NPCs sit around until the end of the game, mostly repeating their dialogue if you make the effort to interact with them. It's not that DkS NPCs have more to say, but you see them less often so it doesn't become as illusion-breaking.
This strong sense of place makes discovering the larger shortcuts, those where huge sections of the world may be bypassed, feel amazingly rewarding because it gives you so much more power to navigate.
I also enjoyed the NPC interactions more in DkS. They are generally much more likeable, and though it's a fairly minor part of the game, the consistently bleak tone of their stories really helps to characterise the world. In comparison to Firelink, the Nexus feels static and soulless. NPCs sit around until the end of the game, mostly repeating their dialogue if you make the effort to interact with them. It's not that DkS NPCs have more to say, but you see them less often so it doesn't become as illusion-breaking.
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