bosskoss21
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Why don't people ever think through their career decisions?
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If it were that awesome, why am I struggling to obtain a job?Slavik81 said:
Graduated August 2009.
I'm very worried right now that people don't want me since I didn't have a job straight out of college.
sh4mike said:
Raise your young one in Iowa. You can do the same approach here, and he/she can have a life (i.e more interests) outside of just books. Just because you're bookish doesn't mean you will succeed in life.
Optional yes, but mandatory if you want to get into the good schools. It's a railway system, and you need to stay on the top track the whole way through; fall off and it's hard to get back on.Zyzyxxz said:
College would definitely be U.S. if he didn't make Top 5 schools in Taiwan -- not sure about high school.
Kids tend to act like their peers. If classmates think math is boring, your kid probably will too. In Taiwan, all kids work hard and so will yours.claviertekky said:
There are private American schools that spit out MIT grads, which is the route we'd have to take here. Public schools for the most part are a joke.
The part about developing interests outside of life is valid but a double-edged sword. Kids today are interested in making movies and games -- and most will pay the price when they go down that educational path.
sh4mike said:
I always thought it was the Asian parents pushing their kids to be their best in their studies, not the system, and sometimes to the point of suicide.
It's how many Asian parents view their kids. They always compete with each other who has the trophy kid. They push their kids and play the comparison game. "Why can't you be more like so and so? You suck at life. Why do I have the worst kid ever?" It's their way of motivation, but it's highly degrading for a kid's self-esteem.
"Oh, Kevin won xyz competition and got straight A's. He's #1 on his tennis team. His teachers love him at school. What does your kid do?"
God, it annoys me. My family tree was literally competing down to which cousin was the best.
That's just freaking sad.
I don't know if you want to put your kid through that route as I was raised that way, and let me tell you, I thought of suicide many times. It sure did push me to my potential, and I appreciate them for doing that, but just because you don't have the highest college education doesn't mean you're screwed.
Many people are successful regardless what college they attend. It comes from self-desire, which I guess lack. I'm not trying hard enough to find a job since it's so different from studying. You're not taught skills to network with people when you spend your time inside all the time.
I see where you're coming from. The Asian way of success is to study hard, get good grades, and go to a good school. If you do all those things, then you will make lots of money.
I don't think that works in America. I find that a number of kids who follow the above end up pretty immature especially if they attended college that is not in the United States.
You're looking at an American grown Asian right now who came out of Northwestern with an electrical engineering degree and is struggling to find a job since he didn't have many contacts nor does the family know anyone in the job market to help him.
Let me reiterate on suicide. I don't know if it's reported often in Taiwan, but it sure is reported often in Japan and the NorCal Bay Area.
Only until now I found my self-esteem, and this was after college.
It's suppressed in Japan since it happens so often. It's not news.Masaki_ said:
It's just another day with a different person dead.
Oh, someone just jumped onto the railroad tracks again. Great.
Also Japan has this student ranking system. When the tests post out, all the kids rally outside comparing who's #1 or who got the better score.
I'm sure it's pushed a number of students over the edge to suicide.
Masaki_ said:
They probably think about it a lot, but they want an education to get good jobs, same as people everywhere.
Nowadays, I think it's impossible to be unhappy for a long time about collegeparticularly in the U.S., where the nature of college nowadays is that it is an investment, and a heavy one at that. No one wants to be stuck for years after graduating with a huge pile of loans. People say college is a time to experiment, etc., but that's only if you can afford it. Right now I'm stuck in a major doing things I don't like (programming, math), and I can't switch because I'm in the home run stretch and the cost is too great.
What it boils down to isn't that people aren't thinking, it's that they either choose to go with something that pays or something that fulfills them.
Johnlenham
Member
Same. Finished secondary school (high school) went back for 4 months to up some grades and bailed on my I.C.T A level as it was boring as fuck.Cosmic Bus said:
This was roughly five years ago and since ive bounced from job to job.
Working for the NHS now so the pays above minimum with great benifits and such.
I do kind of regret not going to Uni (if not only for the experience) but fuck knows what I would have studied.. back then id have took something IT related but id rather gouge my eyes out with rusty spoons than do that now.. maybe some sort of Fitness/science related one? who knows :lol
But I do know people that coasted into Uni, picked something they sort of liked and failed/bailed before the first year thus only gaining like 7K of Debt. Id hate myself for going and racking up 15K of debt on something I didnt even like.
Pachinko said:
The problem isn't what you're doing or not doing, but your mindset. There's no race. There's no achievement to unlock by doing anything by a specific date. You might've had a 'lifetime job' only to have it pulled out from under you by the economy, or you might've been like "man, fuck this shit" and bailed on it before your soul turned black.
If there's something you want to do, find out how to do it, and then do it. But don't try and motivate yourself with some 'keeping up with the joneses' factor, because that's backwards. There's always going to be someone with a better situation/money/etc, but there's always people who have it far worse, too. You just go after what will make you personally happy or ok, and that's the most important thing.
dramatis said:
I was in the same boat except that I changed majors. I struggled with the decision because of the monetary concerns but overall, I am glad that I did. For the record, I changed to the things that you don't like
. I got my degree in CS at age 30 because until then I had no idea what I wanted to be when I grow up. I racked up a ton of debt switching around my majors but I would rather have the debt and a job that I like than be miserable.Well I choose a degree that would coincide with what I wanted to do (Accounting and Finance --> Now working within financial services) but one thing I've learnt is having a relevant degree is a significant advantage but by no means crucial in almost all graduate schemes for big firms.
In my experience, the big firms are looking for the best talent as opposed to a particular degree. The company will train you and make you sit profession exams if required. Out of the 24 grads that were hired in my intake, only 4 or 5 have relevant degrees.
Moral of the story, relevant degrees are only paramount for few sectors and small employers that don't want to spend money to train new hires.
All of the above is UK centric btw, not sure if it differs across the border.
In my experience, the big firms are looking for the best talent as opposed to a particular degree. The company will train you and make you sit profession exams if required. Out of the 24 grads that were hired in my intake, only 4 or 5 have relevant degrees.
Moral of the story, relevant degrees are only paramount for few sectors and small employers that don't want to spend money to train new hires.
All of the above is UK centric btw, not sure if it differs across the border.
Limedust said:
Indeed.
I'm just banking on the teacher prospect though
Most states have ~45%+ of their teaching force employed by people ages 50 and over apparently (http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2009-04-06-teachers-retiring_N.htm)
I've noticed the same thing OP. My SIL for example just got out of college with a degree in 'museum curatorship' or some such nonsense.. now she works part time(20hrs a week) at a small local museum for minimum wage and lives with her parents. Whats worse is she is thinking of persuing her masters now I believe.
Now when I was 18 I asked myself what did I want to do? Well I wanted to make good money so then I asked myself were could I make good starting money out of college in a field that was in demand. I looked at accounting, finance etc but since I liked games and computers so I decided to go with programming. Of course I never coded a game, I work on mainframe applications now but when I graduated in May of 1999 I had multiple offers on the table and took a job making more then my father. I've been at the same company since I got hired out of school. Mission accomplished at least for now.
Personally if I was a kid in todays world I would look very seriously at nursing/medical field due to the demand or a trade such as as electrician, something that is harder to outsource. Given my background in IT and all of the outsourcing I've seen I would definately encourage a young person to be aware of it and how it raises the barrier of entry for a new hire.
I'll admit I was a more serious kid, I took school seriously, didn't party or fuck off much, stuck to my goals. I'll never understand why people don't research a bit more in what they want to do, check with colleges and their placement rates.. do internships etc. My wife and I have 4 sons, we are saving hard for their college, our goal is to pay 100% for all four of them if possible so they can graduate with no debt which is a huge advantage in life. I will ask them to research what they want to do and I'd expect them to find a major with a good graduation placement rate.
Now when I was 18 I asked myself what did I want to do? Well I wanted to make good money so then I asked myself were could I make good starting money out of college in a field that was in demand. I looked at accounting, finance etc but since I liked games and computers so I decided to go with programming. Of course I never coded a game, I work on mainframe applications now but when I graduated in May of 1999 I had multiple offers on the table and took a job making more then my father. I've been at the same company since I got hired out of school. Mission accomplished at least for now.
Personally if I was a kid in todays world I would look very seriously at nursing/medical field due to the demand or a trade such as as electrician, something that is harder to outsource. Given my background in IT and all of the outsourcing I've seen I would definately encourage a young person to be aware of it and how it raises the barrier of entry for a new hire.
I'll admit I was a more serious kid, I took school seriously, didn't party or fuck off much, stuck to my goals. I'll never understand why people don't research a bit more in what they want to do, check with colleges and their placement rates.. do internships etc. My wife and I have 4 sons, we are saving hard for their college, our goal is to pay 100% for all four of them if possible so they can graduate with no debt which is a huge advantage in life. I will ask them to research what they want to do and I'd expect them to find a major with a good graduation placement rate.
harSon said:
Limedust said:
That's a pleasant thought, but just because the demand will be there, because of our dying parents, do not expect decent wages. Our parents left us many wonderful unfunded obligations, a good deal larger of our wages will go to funding their benefits, by paying for their and our benefits our take home will actually decrease.
Goya said:
Their is a very small market for skills directly related to econ BS, I am a financial economics minor, debating full out second major as my minor is not the typical wimpy econ minor, I already took the hardest classes such as econometrics and forecasting. All they econ only people can get is sales jobs.
ahoyhoy said:
Given the cost of college and the increasing supply of college graduates most people doing liberal arts are financially much better skipping college. Especially if your parents had money stashed away for you to waste, you would be better investing in financial assets than in yourself, it has a higher net present value.
Ironically I am typing this in a political science class, surrounded by people following their dreams to failure or law school. :lol
Sir Garbageman
Member
Gallbaro said:
Swing and a miss. I got a BS econ degree and not to brag but I have a great job at a Fortune 500 company in revenue management. Also, a couple of my buddies with BS econ degrees have gotten gigs as financial analysts, consultants, and yes, also as sales reps.
This is in the tri-state area if it makes a difference.
Sir Garbageman
Member
Gallbaro said:
You're right that econ is a little bit of a gray area compared to more specialized business degrees such as finance or accounting. At the same time though it really shouldn't be a hinderance for any entry level "business" job.
Anyway, as for econ majors today, it's probably more a reflection on the economy as a whole more than anything else. I graduated in 05 and like I mentioned me and my buddies didn't have much trouble finding good jobs at the time. Probably be a helluva harder now.
As for the OP's original question as to why people don't ever think through their career decisions, its a tough call. I think the majority of people in the work force never have a set career path in mind, especially when it comes to people who don't have highly specialized degrees. I think in general its rare for people, especially young people to have such long term goals / plans in place in any aspect of their lives, let alone career wise.
People do think it through it just that some people are dealt bad cards and will always want to improve their economic situation, hence the interest in law school.
Not everyone can do all the calculus it takes to be an Engineer/ComSci. Doesn't mean they are dumb. I would say, knowing what I know now, communication skills are far more important. The problems I've seen on this board are more because people refuse to think outside the box when it comes to finding a job.
Just because you studied history doesn't mean you have to teach or write history books. Same goes for an engineer. I know engineers and liberal art majors who are excellent salesmen of highly technical equipment. You're major has little impact on your career, it has an impact but not as profound as some people believe, it's all about how you leverage your degree and how you present yourself.
Not everyone can do all the calculus it takes to be an Engineer/ComSci. Doesn't mean they are dumb. I would say, knowing what I know now, communication skills are far more important. The problems I've seen on this board are more because people refuse to think outside the box when it comes to finding a job.
Just because you studied history doesn't mean you have to teach or write history books. Same goes for an engineer. I know engineers and liberal art majors who are excellent salesmen of highly technical equipment. You're major has little impact on your career, it has an impact but not as profound as some people believe, it's all about how you leverage your degree and how you present yourself.
GoutPatrol
Forgotten in his cell
Why, why O why weren't these 13-year-olds more pragmatic about their career choices?
Zero Tolerance
Banned
sh4mike said:
Interesting. But I think this post points out to something that this topic isn't covering.
LIFESTYLE
It's all "career oriented," but most people don't think about how their career choices affect their lifestyles. If you plan on getting married (and staying married) and having kids, that will affect your career trajectory. It think one contribution to the high divorce rate (aside from the factors accounted for in statistics) is that people focus more attention to [this topic] than how they want their family lives/legacy to play out.
Most people I talk to put career first, then it's like "Oh yeah, I forgot, a wife and a kid or two would be nice." Too late by then, kinda like how the OP wonders why people think about career choices "too late."
Not trying to shift the conversation. Just food for thought. Because this poster is making a career choice based upon "family needs."
Every time I read this thread I just get more and more depressed. I've been struggling with the idea of what I want to do with my life, and I always reach a dead-end after hours of personal philosophical debate.
I have little in the way of career ambitions. I've never really had a "dream" job or anything like that; I've always just wanted to live comfortably, work at a job I am good at and maintain a good balance between work and free-time. However, right now it looks like what I'm good at (writings, rhetoric) isn't giving me many opportunities and what I'm trying to do right now in order to secure a comfortable career isn't panning out. How am I supposed to apply these skills I find myself with? Right now the only obvious answer is getting a degree, which I am currently pursuing, but what then?
I have little in the way of career ambitions. I've never really had a "dream" job or anything like that; I've always just wanted to live comfortably, work at a job I am good at and maintain a good balance between work and free-time. However, right now it looks like what I'm good at (writings, rhetoric) isn't giving me many opportunities and what I'm trying to do right now in order to secure a comfortable career isn't panning out. How am I supposed to apply these skills I find myself with? Right now the only obvious answer is getting a degree, which I am currently pursuing, but what then?
gentlemanfinn
Neo Member
To anyone who's thinking about following OP, and just want to make big moniez! Consider going into business process management. You will properly get paid by the loads! and if you specialize in monitoring and optimization, or just become good at those parts, you'll get even more!!
You'll need to have some kind of interest in:
You'll need to have some kind of interest in:
- Organizational theory.
- General IT.
- Globalization.
- Businesses, and all that comes with it.
- and stuff i forgot...
sh4mike said:
I do agree with this, kids that are poor at math may never have to make it to Calculus. I have a few friends (mostly female) that are really poor at math, having large difficulty with pre calculus classes and statistics. They just chose majors that don't deal with math and they never have to learn it.
Also, to the OP: You're from Australia, and there you guys have really specific tracks that get you started on your major pretty quickly. In the states, we have another year of study (4 for a bachelors), and with the exception of some majors like engineering, you're likely to have that first year be filled with classes unrelated to your major. A lot of students come in with the mindset that they'll take some gen eds, and if they don't like their chosen major, then they can pick another, sometimes unrelated one without having to take another year of study.
By nature, the system allows for this kind indecision
edit: as for me, I've done 1.5 years of university, but I'm not sure what I really want to do. I thought it was management, then accounting, and now I'm sort of leaning towards a degree in Computer Information Systems because I like working with computers and like business/economics. But I knew NONE of this as an 18 year old.
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