Support NeoGAF

[7DollarHagane]

In most if not all PC emulators of 3d games or even ports of old 3d games, increasing the internal rendering resolution is usually an easy task with little effect on the performance of the game.

Usually the bulk of the performance hit is on the CPU emulating the older device. The newer GPU that's rendering the older effects isn't stressed as much.

That's why jumping from a gtx 780 to a 1080 probably doesn't offer you much performance difference in dolphin if your CPU is underpowered already.

Any insight into this?

 

[Kralamoonard]

Just speculation from my limited knowledge, but maybe because the games are already demanding as they are already.

I mean it's a feat within itself that they're running natively on Xbox One, and in most cases it tends to have the same performance as Xbox 360 (sometimes slightly better), so maybe increasing the resolution would be too demanding and make the FPS unplayable - maybe only for less demanding games like indies?

 

[Samurai G0SU]

i"m guessing the developers of that game do not want to go back to that code and waste time re-tooling something to 'enchance' anything.

Or in short. Cost.

JUST MY GUESS THOUGH...

 

[Majine]

I bet they had to do a lot of strange coding to get this to work at all.

 

[Transistor]

I bet they had to do a lot of strange coding to get this to work at all.

My guess as well

 

[The Real Napsta]

Not to hijack the thread but, did the 360 increase internal resolution of original Xbox games?

 

[Vashetti]

Not to hijack the thread but, did the 360 increase internal resolution of original Xbox games?

Nope.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Probably because doing that sort of thing isn't as simple as it sounds, and would likely have compatibility issues with many games or their HUDs, etc. Kind of goes against the put in and play mentality so they likely restricted it to be as close as possible to the 360 experience.

 

[pastrami]

I don't know that it's an easy task. Maybe to an end user where you have a simple setting/plug-in option, but I'm sure that the actual programming has its challenges.

 

[kamineko]

i remember thinking 360 BC wasn't even possible a couple of years ago

 

[Karak]

The emulator of the 360 within the Xbox One is completely closed making the Xbox One think it is carrying a little baby 360 inside it. So much so that we have seen issues with some peripherals not working because pass through isn't considered native to the 360 emulator and won't pick up(could have been fixed maybe by now). For many reasons they chose it that way but that also means situations in which you would have access to the true internal render and being able to adjust it seem highly unlikely. Pushing the speed, leveling out the FPS seems to be the highpoint and due to the difference in architecture when aren't seeing a huge boost there either.

 

[Mingledorff]

Probably because doing that sort of thing isn't as simple as it sounds, and would likely have compatibility issues with many games or their HUDs, etc. Kind of goes against the put in and play mentality so they likely restricted it to be as close as possible to the 360 experience.

This along with the performance reasons together are probably it. God knows doing the increased internal renders with PS2 games can sometimes have really strange, unexpected effects

 

[designgears]

Emulating PowerPC is already stressful enough, I doubt there is enough power left to bump the graphics up.

 

[Gaogaogao]

that would be alot more work. the bc games are barely being touched.

 

[GavinGT]

It's a wonder that they pulled off what they did, and you're asking them to do more.

 

[LukasTaves]

I believe they are not emulating, there's definitely a translation involved but it seems to be at a Os level, with the 360 being ported to work on xbone, and the games are just running natively including the hard coded resolution.

I suspect they could force increase the resolution, but then the 32mb esram would quickly be an issue, because either the OS would have to take care of managing that, or the game would have to be updated for it, which is never happening.

And they definitely want the entire framebuffer to reside on esram, otherwise fillrate bound games would probably run like crap.

Though it's going to be interesting to see when they port it to Scorpio and pc.

 

[LukasTaves]

Nope.

For some it did? I think at least it added msaa4x to them?

 

[chronic_archaic]

The CPU is the biggest hurdle with emulating the 360, that's why you see games like Halo Reach really struggle framerate wise because of how CPU intensive it is. Adding internal resoution boosting would be nuts on global game basis. The GPU emulation forces vsync (it did on Xbox on Xbox 360 as well) and in some cases grants better framerates in games where the framerate is unlocked but you're asking way too much work.

 

[RoadHazard]

Emulating PowerPC is already stressful enough, I doubt there is enough power left to bump the graphics up.

You're talking about the CPU, which rendering resolution has nothing to do with. Rendering more pixels, leaving everything else as it is, is purely a GPU thing. That doesn't necessarily mean it's an easy thing to do in this scenario, but yeah.

 

[tuna_love]

maybe one day they will uprender to 4k

 

[LukasTaves]

maybe one day they will uprender to 4k

Lol

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

It's a miracle the Xbox One is emulating Xbox 360 games at all, let alone accurately, roughly full speed, and sometimes faster. Emulation takes a lot of horsepower, especially with the 360 which had a beast of a processor back in the day, and especially on a console like Xbox One with a fairly weak processor. Which is why games like Halo Reach and Gears of War struggle in areas on Xbox One. For any high profile games significant gains are damn near impossible, and it's not worth the effort for smaller ones.

We do get forced VSync (which is generally a good thing, but hurts performance for some games) and occasionally improved framerates (Red Dead), but those are basically the limits of plausibility and practicality.

Plus, as others have said, even power issues aside suddenly forcing resolution changes is going to cause more problems than it's worth. They'd have to implement it game by game.

 

[Akai__]

Isn't Microsoft just enabling these games for Backwards Compatibility, after they have permission from the publishers/developers? I don't think they have access to the actual game, but they are just making sure that it runs well in the Emulator aren't they?

 

[The Dear Leader]

I'd like this too, Red Dead still looks great but stuff like Black Ops looks really muddy.

 

[Figments]

In most if not all PC emulators of 3d games or even ports of old 3d games, increasing the internal rendering resolution is usually an easy task with little effect on the performance of the game.

Usually the bulk of the performance hit is on the CPU emulating the older device. The newer GPU that's rendering the older effects isn't stressed as much.

That's why jumping from a gtx 780 to a 1080 probably doesn't offer you much performance difference in dolphin if your CPU is underpowered already.

Any insight into this?

Uh.

I don't know what you're smoking, but trying to play Project M on my computer at 1080p makes it chug like a dying walrus.

 

[Izuna]

Not to hijack the thread but, did the 360 increase internal resolution of original Xbox games?

Yeah... Halo 2

 

[Swimmer9800]

Because that would cost money

 

[AlStrong]

For some it did? I think at least it added msaa4x to them?

Just 4xMSAA. In some cases it might not have worked as expected depending on the post-processing or whatever techniques the game might have employed.

There hasn't really been a complete analysis of the titles, however.

 

[Massa]

Not to hijack the thread but, did the 360 increase internal resolution of original Xbox games?

I believe PS2 on PS4 is the first official emulator where that happened.

 

[LilJoka]

Would probably require optimisation and time, they are doing the bare minimum to get the game running.