This is only true if your playing De maps in a more competitive manner. Play an aim map, fun maps dm, gun mode, or plenty of maps that keep things in a frenzy and the spawn times low.
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Why has Counterstrike not taken off on console like COD and BF?
- Thread starter fluffydelusions
- Start date
This is only true if your playing De maps in a more competitive manner. Play an aim map, fun maps dm, gun mode, or plenty of maps that keep things in a frenzy and the spawn times low.
njean777
Member
Well by that logic COD can take a lot of skill as well. Especially if all you play is SnD. No respawns and you more than likely will be killed quickly if you do not know what you are doing.
I Want Your Cat
Member
I wouldn't say it has a higher skill ceiling than console shooters. Mostly every game can have a high skill ceiling. Its old style gameplay (I wouldn't say outdated, its just old) is different than what people are used to on consoles. It just takes some getting used to but people don't have the patience now a days. They go in to a match, die, wait wait wait, die, wait some more, and die. Boom rage quit back to their preferred game.
Yea but there's a bit too much CS fanboyism going on in here.
Yea but there's a bit too much CS fanboyism going on in here.
ChawlieTheFair
pip pip cheerio you slags!
Mostly this, game has very fine tuned recoil and gunplay that pretty much require a mouse, same with fast selecting equipment/different jump and plant spots.
Some would def be able to do it, but the game just works better on M/KB, whereas something like CoD is (IMO) actually more fun on a controller.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
That was quick.
jeffyjaixx
Member
Too much twitch skill involved.
All this tells me is that the skill for games with assists and whatnot is more related to a players tactical perception of the game and it's systems and not on how well he or she can aim. Both are skill, just different types of skill.
This is such a strange argument because it implies that console gamers flocking to games like CoD only happened because skill based games like CS are rare/not well supported on consoles.
Doesn't it make much more sense that games like CoD are popular on console because they work well with the limitations of a gamepad? And the opposite for games like CS?
Counter-Strike doesn't work on a controller plain and simple. CoD and other FPS franchises are designed from the ground up to be pad-friendly.
I believe that the PC and console audience also differ in their tastes a bit. If you spend 100 hours in most mainstream FPS franchises you can become pretty decent or even damn good. Spend 100 hours in CS and you might start to stop sucking. Come back to CoD after a long time and you'll fit right in. Come back to CS after a long time and you don't know what the fuck you're doing. I honestly don't believe the console FPS crowd has that type of patience.
I personally think the original Halo titles (1-3) to be the finest examples of competitive FPS on consoles. They all require good teamwork and strategies. In terms of shooting skills the ceiling is definitely lower than CS but higher than in every other console title leading to play that can genuinely impress me.
I just recently started playing again with a buddy who had 800+ hours racked up previously in 1.6 and was pretty good in the scrims we used to do back before GO came out and he kept commenting on how terrible he is now.
I was pretty big into competitive Halo 3 and COD4 360 before transitioning to PC multi-player games so that's where my opinion is coming from.
I believe that the PC and console audience also differ in their tastes a bit. If you spend 100 hours in most mainstream FPS franchises you can become pretty decent or even damn good. Spend 100 hours in CS and you might start to stop sucking. Come back to CoD after a long time and you'll fit right in. Come back to CS after a long time and you don't know what the fuck you're doing. I honestly don't believe the console FPS crowd has that type of patience.
I personally think the original Halo titles (1-3) to be the finest examples of competitive FPS on consoles. They all require good teamwork and strategies. In terms of shooting skills the ceiling is definitely lower than CS but higher than in every other console title leading to play that can genuinely impress me.
I just recently started playing again with a buddy who had 800+ hours racked up previously in 1.6 and was pretty good in the scrims we used to do back before GO came out and he kept commenting on how terrible he is now.
I was pretty big into competitive Halo 3 and COD4 360 before transitioning to PC multi-player games so that's where my opinion is coming from.
The thing is, being good at CS also involves being a good tactician. Having a higher skill ceiling on the execution level doesn't lower the other skill ceilings.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Because you can't do CS with aim assist on analog sticks.
You will break the game if you try to do that, and it is no longer CS.
You will break the game if you try to do that, and it is no longer CS.
Lol I knew I wasn't going to be disappointed with the responses, first post elitest!
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Some people aren't buying the skill argument. I do. At least from a "tactical skill" level. My times trying to get into CS have been painful, even on PC. I've never had any trouble getting into any other shooter, but CS has me kinda stumped.
Complistic
Member
You don't get a level up screen every 30 seconds.
To be honest I find this skill ceiling talk to be quite odd and subjective.
A shooter has so many variables and systems that I don't know how a ceiling can actually be determined. Having systems like regen health and shields for instance doesn't lower a ceiling it merely adds a different way to look at tactics and changes the ceiling compared to games that don't have that feature.
The fact that games can pick up console shooters faster and get to the "fun" faster also does not speak towards the ceiling, it merely speaks to how fast said gamers can get to the first or second floor to keep with the building metaphor.
NemesisPrime
Banned
Cs did pretty well on the original Xbox tbh.
The computer aiming for you takes away differences between player skill levels in that regard and thus lowers the skill ceiling.
lemon_fresh
Banned
Skill?
lolno and smh at all the elite snobs agreeing with the first comment.
It is because mouse users can acquire target quicker and with better precision over users with analog sticks.
As was said earlier on the thread, MS brought together top ranked (read SKILLED) console gamers to play vs average Joe PC gamers for testing purposes. The end result was the PC gamers crushed the console gamers every time. Average Joe does not have more skill than top ranked player. Average Joe has a tool that is superior to top ranked gamer for the task at hand.
Same as racing wheels are a better tool than kb/m for driving games.
It is like saying Carpenter Joe using an air hammer has more nail driving skill than Carpenter Steve using a sledge hammer. No.
One is just using a tool that is better suited for the job.
Skill has nothing to do with it, until the people in question are on a level field, using the same tool.
lolno and smh at all the elite snobs agreeing with the first comment.
It is because mouse users can acquire target quicker and with better precision over users with analog sticks.
As was said earlier on the thread, MS brought together top ranked (read SKILLED) console gamers to play vs average Joe PC gamers for testing purposes. The end result was the PC gamers crushed the console gamers every time. Average Joe does not have more skill than top ranked player. Average Joe has a tool that is superior to top ranked gamer for the task at hand.
Same as racing wheels are a better tool than kb/m for driving games.
It is like saying Carpenter Joe using an air hammer has more nail driving skill than Carpenter Steve using a sledge hammer. No.
One is just using a tool that is better suited for the job.
Skill has nothing to do with it, until the people in question are on a level field, using the same tool.
SkoomaSuckinSwit
Member
6th post gets it.
Valve only did a quick port to consoles to drum up cash. There are still video interviews with Chet and how he said their plan was to support the console versions alongside the PC version with updates, possibly even cross-platform play. That was a big fat lie.
Bugs, clunky controls, framerate issues, people who wanted to party together were split up in the lobby, connection issues, etc. Valve never updated the game once they threw it out the door. A huge black mark against Valve, and such a fall from the good graces of Left4Dead, The Orange Box, and the Portal games console ports which were all very good.
I think if Valve released CS:GO in its current form on nextgen consoles, it would do really well - imo would even give CoD a run for it's money if advertised enough. It would definitely have a long standing community online. But that will never happen.
Edit: Oh and input device has nothing to do with skill. CS plays fine with a controller, you just can't do fast twitch shots like you can with a mouse, because a mouse is so point n shoot easy to use. It's much harder to get good with analog sticks than a mouse. And like is said just above, CS on Xbox was in the Top10 XBL games for I think the entirety of the Xbox online service (until MS pulled the plug.)
You still need to aim, I mean I'm starting to really think some of you think these game auto aim at the head of your opponent.
Additionally, FPS and the skill required to be good of them is not measured just by how well you can aim. I could turn around and say that adding shields increases the ceiling as the player needs to understand their limits, what works against them when attacking or on the defensive, understanding regen rates and when to continue a pursuit versus retreat. Again I'm still trying to understand how we objectively are measuring these ceilings, because the most skilled players are thinking of all of these things and trying to eke out every tiny competitive advantage they can find.
Ignoring that the generation of consoles in question required large payments for any patches.
SkoomaSuckinSwit
Member
Which were dropped not long after CSGO was released on consoles. What was the excuse then for not updating the game with a patch for the issues? Valve certainly made a LOT of money off console players, it sold many hundreds of thousands of copies at $15 a pop.
They still charged for 'excessive' patching AND it has to go through weeks/month long certification processes before getting released.
Go look up the current CSGO changelogs for the past few years. Its on a scale completely unheard of for consoles.
The problem is in 'skill' based games, the longer it takes you to be successful, the longer it takes for you to have fun. COD and others have systems like autoaim and perks to close the time it takes you to have fun. Counterstrike doesn't even have a tdm for you to get acclimated with it, mods aside. Combine no respawns with the money system, and you can see a clear skill gap forming.
Personally, I think that this post does a fantastic job at breaking down what people mean by CS "requiring more skill" as far as the gameplay mechanics go, and no decent counterpoints to it have been brought up yet.
Sadly, a lot of posters on NeoGAF weren't even playing games yet when that version came out.
I played the shit out of that version, and the PC version, at the same time. Dat bank map.
Also, you were allowed to use your Xbox as a dedicated server
Aside from the controller comments (which I agree with), there's no competitive scene on consoles for CS, and there's no affordable way (on XBL/PSN) for Valve to monetize CSGO like they do on Steam. Updates on PC are free for them, don't have to go through 1st Party certification and QC, and updates are very quick to put up on the network for players to download.
The only reason CSGO exists today, as is, is because Valve can monetize it on Steam and not give Sony or Microsoft a cut of any revenue or pay them money/licensing fees for patches or operations/map packs.
I played a bit of 1.6 (and now lots of CSGO) on PC and a lot of OG XBOX CS and the game is just completely different on a controller. I'll take KB+M any day.
The only reason CSGO exists today, as is, is because Valve can monetize it on Steam and not give Sony or Microsoft a cut of any revenue or pay them money/licensing fees for patches or operations/map packs.
I played a bit of 1.6 (and now lots of CSGO) on PC and a lot of OG XBOX CS and the game is just completely different on a controller. I'll take KB+M any day.
So most people on NeoGAF are under age 11?
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Plays horribly on consoles basically. Game was built for KB&M and shoehorned onto console.
It does but that's not reason why it hasn't taken off on concoles.
It's been mentioned before, but CS is not very approachable in the same way that BF/COD are. I had to spend 100 hours to learn how to properly move, shoot, throw grenades/smokes/flash, control spray patterns, memorise maps, and so on. Nearly 200 hours into CSGO I still consider myself terrible.
With COD/BF, you can pick up a controller and start having a decent time in under an hour.
With COD/BF, you can pick up a controller and start having a decent time in under an hour.
lemon_fresh
Banned
As I said, skill is determined by those those with equal tools.
You are trying to compare apples and oranges.
One can't say he is more skilled based solely on the usage of a superior tool.
CS and CoD and BF and Halo and KZ and [insert FPS tile here] all require skill. Just not the same type of skill.
CS is not really viable on consoles, not because of skill, but because the tool that the console user uses (a controller) is not a tool that is well suited for that task at hand (playing CS).
Skill has nothing to do with it.
Not really. The main mode in Counterstrike is Defusal or Hostage rescue. This is the most popular form of CS and the competitive form. COD tournament mode/most popular mode is Deathmatch.
Deathmatch is a variant in CS and SnD is a variant in COD.
From what I recall, you can't even PLAY SnD until you've played Deathmatch for a bit in CoD so just no.
CS's support is usually A. Free and B. Made by the Playerbase.
2 things that just don't go well on consoles.
TheRedSnifit
Member
You're ignoring the fact that there's more to be skilled at in CS. A Counterstrike player is likely skilled at the same things a Halo player is skilled at, but a Halo player is unlikely to be skilled at as many things as a Counterstrike player is skilled at.
this is completely not true. Have you played halo?
TheRedSnifit
Member
Elaborate.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Yeah, let's not act like there's anything special or unique about CS gameplay or mechanics.
There's a reason why CS:GO is much more COD-ified.
None of the weapons handle like Cs
None of the maps play like cs, halo maps are about power weapon spawns.
you die FAST in cs. Not like Halo. You spawn in halo and its about pure skill. BR vs BR. Its not about "I camped you'tr dead" Like cod
It's worse than that. The console versions are running such an old build of the game that the recoil is still completely random. To be expected with the way they handled TF2 though.
The terrible controls are the main reason though. You just can't play the current version of CS:GO with a controller.
Yeah any FPS with LOW FOV and sticks is like that (I am looking at you Desinty) Oh and that is great music video.So playing CS with a controller is like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQEBzauVIlA
Fuz
Banned
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Skill and also it's best played on PC. Better controls and tighter feeling controls thanks to higher frames and resolution. Console gamers probably look at CS as some second or third rate shooter compared to CoD or BF sadly.
Let's toss Halo with the CoD and BF's as well.
CS is in another league.
Let's toss Halo with the CoD and BF's as well.
CS is in another league.
I dare you to play any TRUE skill FPS that has its roots crazy aim/movement and you will see Controllers have limited us so bad its not funny.
amazing
this is the less dismissive, more accurate answer
most modern shooters have gameplay mechanics that are tuned around a dual-analog controller experience. Counter-Strike is tuned around a keyboard and mouse setup. The same gameplay is not going to work on consoles.
It's the same reason PC-style RTS games never really worked out in the same way on consoles. The gameplay is based around speed and accuracy of a specific type of input that standard console controllers just aren't built for.
Any controller use on CS is just going to be a workaround with limited effectiveness. It's not even really a consoles vs PC thing. It's a gameplay-input thing.
You wouldn't want to play Elite Beat Agents by steering an analog stick in circles and hitting the trigger to virtually "tap" the targets, would you?