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Why hasn't Nintendo made a Mario game with a level editor?

M

MisterAnderson

Member
This seems like a no brainer to me. What LittleBigPlanet did, Nintendo should have done first with at least minimal level design tools. It would have been the Mario Paint of this past generation, and to this day it still has yet to happen. Mario's side-scroller gameplay and simple assets lend itself perfectly for a map editor tool for user-generated content, and even despite Nintendo having a shitty online infrastructure for level sharing I would have expected a local level editor by now at the very least.

Are they that afraid of penises? Or is it because they don't want their fanbase not relying solely on them for new Mario content?
 
There's no denying that if Nintendo made a playcreateshare genre game it'd be amazing but I don't think they are progressive enough for something like that.
 
Maybe don't want to look like they're copying LBP? I dunno... but I was very surprised NSMBU didn't include this feature as I would have imagined it would be a no brainer for a title like that.
 
"The last Mario game you'll have to buy!" is not something Nintendo is rushing to achieve.
 
"...when content is being created and made available for free, that it is devaluing content, and is potentially devaluing the expectation of consumers for what content should be. ..."

-Reggie

Not that I agree with that, but that seems to be Nintendo's philosophy on the matter.
 
I think quality control has a lot to do with it, in Nintendo's eyes if nowhere else. Far easier to maintain tight and precise standards with your own levels. A subpar level-making community might damage the games.

I think the Little Big Planet comparison is off, though. Little Big Planet is, at its heart, a creativity tool, whereas Mario is a precision platformer. Completely seperate approaches.
 
Play LittleBigPlanet

Just kidding

I am sure there is a level editor on the internet somewhere. If LBP's level editor was actually good for platformers, I'm sure we'd see some amazing Mario games.

Nintendo definitely wants to control the content. With such few tools that go into a Mario level, a level editor would sustain gamers forever. I'm also sure it would tire people of Mario quicker too.
 
Customisation for the sake of customisation is horrendous.

A Mario game with a level creator just doesn't fit. While it may be a "cool" idea, it doesn't fit in with the concept of Mario, nor does it make much sense financially or logistically
 
After how much praise Reggie lapped on LBP when it was first shown off I was sure this is what the NSMB series was gonna turn into. I would guess your reasoning of Nintendo wanting to be the only one that can provide it is probably close to the mark, especially after seeing New Super Luigi U

Though I've been thinking there'll be another 2D Mario this gen, either on 3DS or Wii U, and level editing could very well be its main pull (though probably not)
 
Because they feared you would outdo them in terms of creativity.
 
250px-Wrecking_Crew_cover.jpg


Still one of the best Mario games ever made (IMO :P ) , and it has a level editor.

But yeah, I know what the OP means, a modern day Mario with a level construction kit could be pretty amazing.
 
Nintendon't, but yeah, I was waiting for this since LBP yep. Not really expecting it anymore but it would be great. Thankfully LBP has caught up as a platformer somewhat.

Nintendo users are also less smart due to most of them being kids. This means they have to think about all sorts of problems and things that may cause frustration that teenagers would be able to get through with common sense. They'd have to spend a lot of research to give us that extra value. Seems like they'd rather just make some more levels and charge.
 
GeekyDad said:
"...when content is being created and made available for free, that it is devaluing content, and is potentially devaluing the expectation of consumers for what content should be. ..."

-Reggie

Not that I agree with that, but that seems to be Nintendo's philosophy on the matter.
Click to expand...

Yep they hate giving users free content to the point where they didn't make demos until very recently.
 
kubus said:
Not sure if it counts, but I'm pretty sure the mini mario vs donkey kong series has a level editor.
Click to expand...
They do! The original Mario vs Donkey Kong -- Donkey Kong Plus for the GameCube -- was supposed to have a level editor. That feature got ditched when the game got rebuilt for the GameBoy Advance. Frankly though, the game wouldn't have benefited from it much anyway.
 
I don't see them doing it, if only because Mario levels are generally very specifically crafted, and they wouldn't want people playing levels that don't work "right"
 
If that is the case for Mario, why not for Megaman, Sonic, Halo, Final Fantasy and a host of other popular games?

Other than Wreaking Crew for the NES, there is also Mario vs. Donkey Kong.
 
Forget Mario, I want a Quest creator for a Zelda game in the style of LTTP. I can only imagine how freakin' awesome it would be to design an overworld, complete with a imagined story and custom temples.

Oh god I would love that.
 
eternalb said:
Forget Mario, I want a Quest creator for a Zelda game in the style of LTTP. I can only imagine how freakin' awesome it would be to design an overworld, complete with a imagined story and custom temples.

Oh god I would love that.
Click to expand...

and it will never ever ever happen
 
I've been dreaming about a "Mario Manager" style game for over a decade: it would be so fucking easy to make a SM1 or 3 style build-a-level game.
 
eternalb said:
Forget Mario, I want a Quest creator for a Zelda game in the style of LTTP. I can only imagine how freakin' awesome it would be to design an overworld, complete with a imagined story and custom temples.

Oh god I would love that.
Click to expand...

At that point you would probably be better off making your own game through a program or something lol
 
JoeM86 said:
Customisation for the sake of customisation is horrendous.

A Mario game with a level creator just doesn't fit. While it may be a "cool" idea, it doesn't fit in with the concept of Mario, nor does it make much sense financially or logistically
Click to expand...

Correct.

Nintendo's internal design philosophies don't warrant a "create-your-own" games regarding 2D Mario. It's all about delivering a finely-honed, extremely-polished, concise experience.
 
Maybe they will do it for the next NewSMB as DLC.

With DLC and Miiverse to help distribute the levels it could be a good source of extra money.
 
JoeM86 said:
Customisation for the sake of customisation is horrendous.

A Mario game with a level creator just doesn't fit. While it may be a "cool" idea, it doesn't fit in with the concept of Mario, nor does it make much sense financially or logistically
Click to expand...

Keep in mind, Super Mario World probably has the most popular level creation/ROM hacking scene ever. People love to play custom SMW levels. Why not offer a level editor as DLC? This has to have come up at some point based on the popularity of that scene alone.

Also, the mario brand has been pimped out in every possible way over the years. IMO, it would not hurt to offer a level editor for one of their non-mainline games.
 
Sandfox said:
At that point you would probably be better off making your own game through a program or something lol
Click to expand...

Well yeah, I realize it's unlikely to happen, but I would love to see Nintendo's take on the idea. A simple and easy to use interface using actual Zelda assets on either the 3DS or Wii U that allows you to easily share those creations.

A man can dream, can't he? =D
 
SUPER MARIO MAKER.

On a serious note, when the vast bulk of user-made levels are inevitably shit, it makes the overall game look bad when those who don't understand level editors come to associate shitty level design with the Mario brand.
 
Antroid said:
Keep in mind, Super Mario World probably has the most popular level creation/ROM hacking scene ever. People love to play custom SMW levels. Why not offer a level editor as DLC? This has to have come up at some point based on the popularity of that scene alone.
Click to expand...

It directly contests with Nintendo's vision of highly-polished 2D Mario.
 
I'd guess they see future profits in danger as fans could recreate levels of future titles - which is possible until Nintendo changes the formula of NSMB asset recycling.
 
MisterAnderson said:
This seems like a no brainer to me. What LittleBigPlanet did
Click to expand...

No offense, but mainline mario games don't need to do anything that LBP did. LBP is nice for what it is, but over all it cannot hold the jockstrap of Marios platforming.

I would much prefer they spend their time making the platforming itself as good as it is, rather than ending up with a LBP situation where the controls feel so floaty and loose and I end up relying on gamers to make some decent platforming levels. Frustrates me just thinking about LBP, I was so disappointed with that game man. That first GDC trailer had me fucking hype.
 
I'm pretty sure I remember somebody from Nintendo talking about the possibility of a level editor in the next Super Mario Bros. 2d platforming game. I can't remember where it was exactly though.

One thing is sure though, like gabe newell said, companies can compete with each other at releasing content, but they have no chance of doing so with their userbase once it reaches a certain critical mass and you give them the tools to create.

The sales of future products or DLC being affected is an argument I don't agree with. First of all, you need the base game to create maps or items for it and secondly, you can find ways to monetize user created content while rewarding creators. It all depends on the pricing model and how fair it is perceived.

Plus, anything coming from a known developer such as Nintendo will likely sell based on name & trust in the software quality.

This and a fairly priced DLC strategy in regards to content and quality would be the way to go for Nintendo in my opinion since their policy in general has been to release one game of a certain series per console at max.

This would also help strengthen the already very strong communities especially if it uses Miiverse in a smart way.
 
Why don't they give away all their money? Level variation is the only difference in 2D Mario games, and even then it isn't significant.

However, for a 3D Mario game, this sounds like a brilliant idea.
 
Nintendo likely doesn't see any value in it. Any levels created would fall into one of these categories:

1) Shit
2) Remakes of levels from older games
3) Remakes of levels from non-Mario games
4) Penises and swastikas
5) Impossible ROM hack styled stages
6) Good, fun to play levels

See: every other game with user created content. There'd be so little content that falls into #6, especially compared to the rest that players would have to slog through to even find the #6s, that it's never been worth the investment.
 
Antroid said:
Keep in mind, Super Mario World probably has the most popular level creation/ROM hacking scene ever. People love to play custom SMW levels. Why not offer a level editor as DLC? This has to have come up at some point based on the popularity of that scene alone.
Click to expand...

New Super Mario Bros Wii actually has quite a few hacked versions too. They look pretty good too.

http://newerteam.com/

sug5.jpg


sug4.jpg


Screenie-4.png
 
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