Bending_Unit_22
Member
I wonder how much of it is due to the ultra low Japanese fertility rate. Fewer youngins means less new blood and less innovation.
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Why have Japanese devs fallen from grace this gen?
- Thread starter MercuryLS
- Start date
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
klee123 said:
Not to mention that other devs have really improved their quality like From Software, Level 5, and GUST.
A lot of people will list a few good games or say handhelds but in reality their contribution lately have been quite stale compared to past generations. Key figures in the Japanese gaming industry have even been very vocal about this. It has been somewhat lacking there in terms of quality AAA games. They do still make a lot of good games there though that are profitable. There just haven't been as many industry leading titles this gen from Japan.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Western media started spending less time hyping Japanese releases and more time hyping up Western releases is another part of it. Exposure plays a key role in what games sell and which don't.
Yep. Basically when it came to RPGs, the only JRPGs people cared about here were Square-Enix games. So when they failed to release in a timely manner and meet expectations, apparently the entire damn country was producing shit and we just didn't realize it.
Hcoregamer00 said:
Yep. Basically when it came to RPGs, the only JRPGs people cared about here were Square-Enix games. So when they failed to release in a timely manner and meet expectations, apparently the entire damn country was producing shit and we just didn't realize it.
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
RurouniZel said:
The niche games are improving in quality by a great amount.
Atelier Rorona -> Atelier Totori is a jump in light years in terms of improving quality, yet the thread is pretty damn barren.
Figboy79 said:
http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/3/34626/1698654-darksoulsb.jpg
You'll have to crop it.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Hcoregamer00 said:
I know, it's quite sad. I've found myself occasionally posting something random in there just to mercy bump the thread. :/
Allan Holdsworth
Member
They haven't, unless you ignore more than half of consoles.
...but basically, Microsoft kinda stole consoles away from Japan this gen and re-centered the console market on the US and UK with games and a service that appealed directly to westerners, taking their attention away from Japan. Japan turned towards handhelds and refocused on their home audience that doesn't want the same kinds of games the rest of the world wants. The sole exceptions are Nintendo and Capcom along with maybe Atlus and From Software.
There is so much denial in this thread.
Since the PS2 days I've always played almost exclusively Japanese-developed imports. Yes there are MANY great Japanese games released this gen, yet if you don't think there has been a substantial drop in the number of quality Japanese games this gen you are crazy. I'd be surprised if there's even been 1/4th as many top-quality Japanese-developed games released in the last 6 years of this generation that there were in the first 6 years of the PS2/GC/Xbox/GBA generation.
Lots of Japanese pubs/devs have crashed in output and/or quality. SquareEnix, KONAMI, IREM, Hudson, Nautilus, Capcom, Sony Japan Studios, Flight-Plan, Intelligent Systems, Polyphony Digital, Bemania Devs, if I was at home and could look at my PS2 collection I'm sure I'd have even more devs who put out numerous fantastic games last-gen who are dead or putting out barely 1 or 2 games this gen. The dead and disbanded devs are cold hard facts. Where are the new Japanese developers coming up to replace them? There aren't.
The gaming industry of Japan has fallen hard in the last 6 years. It's the truth, and sadly there's nothing showing that this trend will reverse in the coming years.
Since the PS2 days I've always played almost exclusively Japanese-developed imports. Yes there are MANY great Japanese games released this gen, yet if you don't think there has been a substantial drop in the number of quality Japanese games this gen you are crazy. I'd be surprised if there's even been 1/4th as many top-quality Japanese-developed games released in the last 6 years of this generation that there were in the first 6 years of the PS2/GC/Xbox/GBA generation.
Lots of Japanese pubs/devs have crashed in output and/or quality. SquareEnix, KONAMI, IREM, Hudson, Nautilus, Capcom, Sony Japan Studios, Flight-Plan, Intelligent Systems, Polyphony Digital, Bemania Devs, if I was at home and could look at my PS2 collection I'm sure I'd have even more devs who put out numerous fantastic games last-gen who are dead or putting out barely 1 or 2 games this gen. The dead and disbanded devs are cold hard facts. Where are the new Japanese developers coming up to replace them? There aren't.
The gaming industry of Japan has fallen hard in the last 6 years. It's the truth, and sadly there's nothing showing that this trend will reverse in the coming years.
Crash Station
Member
RSLAEV said:
83 on metacritic is "ripped to shreds"?
Because the western press has a raging hardon for iOS devices, which means less coverage, exposure, and mindshare of Japanese developed handheld games and handheld game devices. And those games and devices are Japan's focus right now, rathar than consoles.
It also doesn't help that ad hoc is shit for eveywhere except Japan and Japanese devs refuse to adapt to the western market with online multiplayer on those handhelds.
It also doesn't help that ad hoc is shit for eveywhere except Japan and Japanese devs refuse to adapt to the western market with online multiplayer on those handhelds.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
Capcom and Nintendo don't count
Handhelds don't count
Handhelds don't count
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Not that it means anything
but I've played more japanese games on my ps3 than western ones. and most of the ones im looking forward to early next year are japanese.
They may not be as critically acclaimed, but there are still a bunch of good games coming out of japan.
but I've played more japanese games on my ps3 than western ones. and most of the ones im looking forward to early next year are japanese.
They may not be as critically acclaimed, but there are still a bunch of good games coming out of japan.
ProfessorMoran
Member
MercuryLS said:
Capcom's quality outside of SF has gone off the deepend and they're completely drained of their best talent, it's only a matter of when the shit will hit the fan.
As for the rest of them, there just wasn't one platform that was hugely successful in Japan enough to really support the smaller developers, the early focus that Capcom, Namco and Square-Enix put on the 360 never really paid off down the line, at least not in Japan, the 360 never became relevant in Japan, neither the PS3 nor the Wii ended up super-strong in Japan. Combined with the fact that the handheld market being a shrinking pie due to super cheap/free smartphone games and you have a big problem.
Paracelsus
Member
Japanese games lost their PS2 and got crushed by the lack of marketing, that's what happened. Add to that
And the deal is done.
It's not that easy, the amount of soulless generic clones catering to said tastes have been countless and so have been the bombas from both Japan and America.
And the deal is done.
It's not that easy, the amount of soulless generic clones catering to said tastes have been countless and so have been the bombas from both Japan and America.
I don't think Japanese devs have fallen from grace, but certainly the publishers have made a load of mistakes. Too many decisions are now made at management, resulting in poor game ideas and execution. The big three third parties (SQEX, BanNam and Konami) have all been guilty of this.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
ProfessorMoran said:
Haven't they poured all their inhouse resources into Dragon's Dogma, which is the reason for them outsourcing so many projects?
and that game looks pretty great so far
Paracelsus
Member
Gez said:
He brought an interesting point though, Atlus might be held in high regard here but budget reasons or not they could be considered amongst the fallen ones this generation, six years of current gen and all we got is a puzzle game. Sure, you could argue their portable output has been great but on the other hand it shows they, as much as many other devs, couldn't handle homeconsoles this round.
Quadrangulum
Banned
I attribute it, primarily, to there being no completely healthy platform for Japanese games. Handhelds seem to hold relatively little purchase with the western media and consumers. Printing a run of DS games is too expensive. The PSP is a regional system. Japanese developers have concluded that the Wii is the improper venue for most of their console efforts. Microsoft raised the minimum order run for 360 games, squelching the niche environment in its cradle. The PS3 is technologically daunting for Japanese developers and I'm not sure it has an audience large enough to make these kinds of exclusives worthwhile.
The publishers also made some poor decisions. Trying to build franchises on the 360 with exclusives was misguided, and on top that, it was an incomplete effort as they gave it up after a few years.
There's also some general incompetence on the part of the developers. It blows my mind that Versus XIII will likely be released after my high school, college, and graduate school graduations. There's no console Kingdom Hearts yet.
Of course, we can't neglect the record exchange rates.
I know many on NeoGAF are fond of the "Japanese games are too weird and anime-ish" to get success nowadays line but I'm not sure I buy that. If there was a clear winning platform on the Japanese market that had a healthy software environment globally, and if the other listed problems were corrected somewhat, I don't think we'd be having this discussion. They'd have been eclipsed by the rise of shooters, like all other genres, but they wouldn't have suffered the kind of concurrent decline we're seeing today.
The publishers also made some poor decisions. Trying to build franchises on the 360 with exclusives was misguided, and on top that, it was an incomplete effort as they gave it up after a few years.
There's also some general incompetence on the part of the developers. It blows my mind that Versus XIII will likely be released after my high school, college, and graduate school graduations. There's no console Kingdom Hearts yet.
Of course, we can't neglect the record exchange rates.
I know many on NeoGAF are fond of the "Japanese games are too weird and anime-ish" to get success nowadays line but I'm not sure I buy that. If there was a clear winning platform on the Japanese market that had a healthy software environment globally, and if the other listed problems were corrected somewhat, I don't think we'd be having this discussion. They'd have been eclipsed by the rise of shooters, like all other genres, but they wouldn't have suffered the kind of concurrent decline we're seeing today.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
OldJadedGamer said:
Well, the West went from PCs to consoles which is sort of the same thing as Japanese going from consoles to handhelds.
east of eastside
Banned
Zeal said:
Crash Station
Member
Derrick01 said:
Not denying it's low for the franchise, but definitely not ripped to shreds level, at least not critically.
Gez said:
It's one of those games that is virtually impossible to make sound appealing from just watching videos and having it described to you. I don't even like puzzle games and it's my GOTY (at least until Skyward Sword).
But yeah, not for everyone. I would put it in the same category as Killer 7 in that it's such a departure from anything anyone has played before that some people just flat out won't get it.
TheExecutive
Member
This. The very fact that the Japanese gaming industry no longer lead the industry in games is a point to be taken. Fallen from grace? I don't know but less of a factor in the industry? yes.(._.) said:
Crash Station
Member
benzy said:
Western, but Japanese is catching up with the recent closing of stuff like Game Republic and other companies like IREM being on life support.
01. The Japanese domestic market has leaned heavily towards portables, but that software gets pirated to shit in the United States (and presumably Europe). It has created a very large divide in terms of focus and resources. As much as I commend the work that Sony Bend and Ready at Dawn have done, I can say for sure that nobody I would rank as a top five western developer has made a portable game yet. In fact I don't think any of my top ten have.
02. Despite how early the 360 came out (its been six years!) Japan didn't seem up to speed with creating games for the new hardware. The third parties are not what they used to be, and Sony's internal teams have been dreadfully slow. Naughty Dog has lapped their Eastern counterparts.
03. There was no "PS2" for third parties this generation. If you wanted to sell in the US you needed to be on Xbox 360, but that would not sell domestically. PS3 seems to have come out as the platform for third parties in Japan, but the software gets outsold by 360 in the US. Nintendo platforms have not been great for third parties, at least in the West. If there had been one system to sell games on globally they probably would have had less trouble.
After having my 32bit era playtime dominated by Japanese games, PS2/XBox/GC seemed like the time in which it evened out. These days my Western game to Japanese game purchase ratio is probably 15:1. They seem to be out of the loop.
02. Despite how early the 360 came out (its been six years!) Japan didn't seem up to speed with creating games for the new hardware. The third parties are not what they used to be, and Sony's internal teams have been dreadfully slow. Naughty Dog has lapped their Eastern counterparts.
03. There was no "PS2" for third parties this generation. If you wanted to sell in the US you needed to be on Xbox 360, but that would not sell domestically. PS3 seems to have come out as the platform for third parties in Japan, but the software gets outsold by 360 in the US. Nintendo platforms have not been great for third parties, at least in the West. If there had been one system to sell games on globally they probably would have had less trouble.
After having my 32bit era playtime dominated by Japanese games, PS2/XBox/GC seemed like the time in which it evened out. These days my Western game to Japanese game purchase ratio is probably 15:1. They seem to be out of the loop.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Good point.
MidnightScott
Banned
The majority of games I own and play are Japanese developed. The rare occasion I do play a western game is when it's some random IP or a racing game.
I don't have any RPGs on PS3 and not really a big fan of RPGs, but seriously looking forward to Ni No Kuni and those Tales games.
I don't have any RPGs on PS3 and not really a big fan of RPGs, but seriously looking forward to Ni No Kuni and those Tales games.
Strummerjones
Member
MadOdorMachine said:
As opposed to Gears of War where you regularly partake in quickfire trivia rounds on notable feminist writers between umm, killing waves and waves of enemies?
MadOdorMachine said:
The biggest problem with Bayonetta is the inclusion of terrible vehicle levels where an incredibly polished fighting engine is abandoned for half baked junk in the name of "variety".
MadOdorMachine said:
Why in flying fuck do they need "puzzles"? How is that doing anything other than injecting pointless filler into the equation? Would Quake 3 arena be better if every now and then a match would be resolved by playing a game of snap?
On your second point, (multiplayer deathmatch) that seems to be the entire raison d'être of Anarchy Reigns. Although I expect even if it is good (early preview footage seemed a bit ropey) no one will even notice, as with their last two games.
...Bending_Unit_22 said:
That's absolutely unrelated.
The low fertility rates are happening in Europe too and you see lots of big devs over there.
Hell, I live in JPN and went to a design school here, and it was packed with people trying to get their asses on the game industry but only a few can. Companies like Konami and Capcom get over 2000 students applying for the company every year. The main problem has more to do with production costs and many smaller game companies not being able to work on big titles anymore.
Still, the costs to make current gen games are getting lower, and next gen will be basically the same as this gen but with even more juice, whereas the jump from last gen to this one involved lots of new techniques and tools that cost a lot of money. At least that's how I see it.
Gears of War has multiplayer as well, which, like it or not, is a big deal. Also the theme is more likely to sell (in the US) than Vanquish or Bayonetta.Strummerjones said:
Strummerjones said:
Sadly, I don't even expect a lot of Vanquish/Bayonetta fans to care about Anarchy Reigns. I remember a lot of people saying the game looked generic in trailer threads.
Which, to me, is ridiculous. It looks like an evolution of the Spawn/Heavy Metal Capcom arcade games without going down the same path as the Gundam Vs series, with an awesome soundtrack and wild (if not as stylish as some of their other games) visuals. I'm pretty excited about it.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Anarchy Reigns is going to own