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[Jim E. Rossler]

They're MY organs, and I need them NOWNEVER

 

[DigitalDevil]

You're missing the point... you are already brain dead or at least declared as such.

That's the problem. Someone can say "hey we could use this liver right now" and suddenly I'm declared braindead. I'm not saying that's the norm, but to insinuate it hasn't or doesn't happen seems kind of silly. You're willing to accept that risk? That's great. I'm not, at least not right now.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

What the hell are you talking about?

Apparently organ donation is worse than the black market thugs in the movies that knock you out and steal your kidneys without you knowing and you wake up in a back alley somewhere. Who would have known?

 

[saunderez]

To the people who look down on non-donors: if you needed an organ transplant, would you be willing to make someone suffer through being dissected without anesthesia to get it? If so, why do you deserve that?

If they were braindead yes I would. I'd do the same for them too. Braindead=dead as far as I'm concerned and I'd rather my family take my off life support than hang onto hope for the impossible.

 

[UltimaPooh]

That's the problem. Someone can say "hey we could use this liver right now" and suddenly I'm declared braindead. I'm not saying that's the norm, but to insinuate it hasn't or doesn't happen seems kind of silly. You're willing to accept that risk? That's great. I'm not, at least not right now.

Why would they be willing to kill someone who has a chance of recovery to help someone else recover? There's no outside influence on who gets the organs. This was posted in earlier in the thread:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/organ-donation/FL00077 Myths on organ donation.

 

[endresults]

What the hell are you talking about?

I think he's talking about the donor being harvested. Why you would need to anesthitize a patient with a flatlined EEG is beyond me, but I heard that some places actually do it "just in case"

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

Can you explain how it isn't selfish?

It might be selfish, but I think it's absurd to look down on people for it.

 

[Big-E]

Came for the backfire, leave happy that a backfire has occurred. Organ donation is something that everyone should be willing to do and the irrational fear attached to it needs to be combated. When I get back home, I need to check to make sure I am still set up to be an organ donor as I think I may have to do some online stuff now.

 

[WAWAZA]

you can have my organs,
you can have the world, see if i care.
i gotz jeevez

 

[Loofy]

Only organ donors are allowed to receive organs from donors.

Would anyone oppose such a law?

 

[Apeopleman]

Only organ donors are allowed to receive organs from donors.

Would anyone oppose such a law?

You got my vote!

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

You're joking right? You can't be this dense.

Maybe I am that dense. Enlighten me.

What the hell are you talking about?

I know reading is difficult, but I have faith in you, beast786. Give that OP another crack.

If they were braindead yes I would. I'd do the same for them too. Braindead=dead as far as I'm concerned and I'd rather my family take my off life support than hang onto hope for the impossible.

How selfless of you.


edit: for the record, I've got the "Y" on my license and am far too lazy to even consider getting it changed. I'm not just trying to justify my own refusal to donate.

 

[H.Protagonist]

Only organ donors are allowed to receive organs from donors.

Would anyone oppose such a law?

Well, it's not like most people would have their babies signed up to be organ donors, but if you are willing to accept an organ from someone else (as an adult), the only decent thing to do is become a donor yourself.

 

[artist]

OP is taking the bar and setting it very high for cowards.

 

[D4Danger]

I think he's talking about the donor being harvested. Why you would need to anesthitize a patient with a flatlined EEG is beyond me, but I heard that some places actually do it "just in case"

should probably give their noggin a floggin too. Just in case.

 

[Seanspeed]

There is nothing selfish about wanting to stay alive. Implicating that physicians are potentially miss-identifying patients as brain dead is scary stuff. I don't want to get in a bad car accident and miss out on the chance to see my son graduate high school because my license says "yes".

I'm sure mis-identifying dead people is common practice.

 

[-Deadpool-]

Organ donor.
Interesting article, but if you fail those tests, that's it, you're not coming back.

Admittedly, stuff like;

But BHCs—who don't receive anesthetics during an organ harvest operation—react to the scalpel like inadequately anesthetized live patients, exhibiting high blood pressure and sometimes soaring heart rates. Doctors say these are simply reflexes.

Is unsettling hahaha.. Nonetheless, I'm pretty confident I wouldn't be around for it, to experience it, so it's negligible.

Staying organ donor.

 

[beast786]

I know reading is difficult, but I have faith in you, beast786. Give that OP another crack.How selfless of you.

edit: for the record, I've got the "Y" on my license and am far too lazy to even consider getting it changed. I'm not trying to justify my own refusal to donate.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35941240&postcount=91

I think I know a little bit more than you think.

 

[jet1911]

What the hell are you talking about?

I'm pretty sure he's talking about this.

But BHCs—who don't receive anesthetics during an organ harvest operation—react to the scalpel like inadequately anesthetized live patients, exhibiting high blood pressure and sometimes soaring heart rates. Doctors say these are simply reflexes.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35941240&postcount=91

I think I know a little bit more than you think.

Apparently not if you had to ask what I was talking about.

I'm pretty sure he's talking about this.

More specifically, this:

In a 1999 article in the peer-reviewed journal Anesthesiology, Gail A. Van Norman, a professor of anesthesiology at the University of Washington, reported a case in which a 30-year-old patient with severe head trauma began breathing spontaneously after being declared brain dead. The physicians said that, because there was no chance of recovery, he could still be considered dead. The harvest proceeded over the objections of the anesthesiologist, who saw the donor move, and then react to the scalpel with hypertension.

 

[fse]

I am not an organ donor, I am fucking gonna live forever thanks to cryogenics

Spoiler

I need more money

 

[FyreWulff]

Yeah, this article is just full of scaremongering. Still checking the box.

Also, next of kin should never be paid for organs.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Apparently not if you had to ask what I was talking about.

More specifically, this:

I'm pretty sure you're just trolling by now. How you can't understand by you just stating that as a scenario like it's the only scenario or at least highly, highly prevalent (of which neither is true) is misleading at best.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

I'm pretty sure you're just trolling by now. How you can't understand by you just stating that as a scenario like it's the only scenario or at least highly, highly prevalent (of which neither is true) is misleading at best.

I never claimed it's the only scenario or that it's even common. But according to the article, it's possible, and I'm not so arrogant as to demand that of someone.

 

[Vermillion]

Only organ donors are allowed to receive organs from donors.

Would anyone oppose such a law?

I want you to be there and watch a father and husband pass away because of misconceptions when it comes to donating organs. And you tell him "sorry sir, but you didn't check the box."

And hey! Maybe while he dies, he can check the box and give up his last chance at life while they remove his organs, deciding that he won't recover (tiny chances that he will don't matter). Take his last moments with his family, even.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

How do you feel about having them cut you open and dissect you without anesthesia while you can still feel it, but have no way to protest? Because according to the article, that happens.

If my higher functions are gone, that is death. What am I without the ability to think or feel emotion? Pain is just nerve endings firing, there's nothing to process in my head. I'm not dreaming or feeling anything. At that point, I'm just gone and what's left of me is twitching.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

I never claimed it's the only scenario or that it's even common. But according to the article, it's possible, and I'm not so arrogant as to demand that of someone.

Ok, so the astronomical percentage that it happens is highly justifiable like the article suggests? How can you call that anything less than fear mongering?

 

[Vermillion]

Ok, so the astronomical percentage that it happens is highly justifiable like the article suggests? How can you call that anything less than fear mongering?

Just one life, bro. One. You don't get a second. No one does.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

Ok, so the astronomical percentage that it happens is highly justifiable like the article suggests? How can you call that anything less than fear mongering?

Since apparently you just like to quote my posts and then talk about something that has nothing to do with what I said, I'll just leave this here for you. Enjoy.

 

[FyreWulff]

If my higher functions are gone, that is death. What am I without the ability to think or feel emotion? Pain is just nerve endings firing, there's nothing to process in my head. I'm not dreaming or feeling anything. At that point, I'm just gone and what's left of me is twitching.

But but death panels. Doctors find out if you're dead by splashing water on you! Such quacks!

 

[beast786]

Apparently not if you had to ask what I was talking about.

More specifically, this:

First, welcome to 2012. 13 years in medical science is a lifetime. Things have changed and our protocol has changed. The core is still from 1995, but changed have been made so that even one in a billion won't happened. if you are called brain dead, that means no more critical care for you. you are not coming back

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/723342

Did you see what I bolded? has nothing to do with your response.

 

[Staccat0]

I never claimed it's the only scenario or that it's even common. But according to the article, it's possible, and I'm not so arrogant as to demand that of someone.

Same here. I'll donate, but I wont waste energy trying to convince another person that they should do something with their body... because again, we could all be doing things to make the world better and we don't for similarly silly reasons.

We could all be saving a fucking life right now if we wanted to.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

But but death panels. Doctors find out if you're dead by splashing water on you! Such quacks!

Maybe they'd get better results by putting my hand in warm water while I'm unconscious.

 

[Freshmaker]

buy guize my mom heard for some women on an aol message board that they won't save you if your a organ donor

On the other hand, how can you guide the armies of heaven against hell with your golden PS Vita if you're trapped in an unnatural in between state?

 

[Amibguous Cad]

Worked in SICU for a while. Declared many times.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...JXq7lC&sig=AHIEtbSDI1GcKUihbl78neGwn0G6KEcj3w

Pretty much the same protocol on the link above ^. Also, participated in during donation extraction surgeries.

I can give tons of stories of lives saving by donors.

I recall one night we had a S/P of MVA with two victims. A mother and her 10 month baby child. The infant was send to children hospital, while the mother was under our care. Just minute upon arrival i had her declared dead. During that time we received a call from children hospital that infant had an irreversible liver injury. Kept the mother alive, got the transplant team to extract the liver from the mother and helicopter it to the children hospital. Where the infant was saved.

In general the transplant list has criterias. Ie if you need liver transplant they take your age, quality of life etc when they make a list. Its not just first come and serve.

If my organs can help someone , I am all for it.

Interesting. What kind of criteria are used to determine who gets the organs? I might be being irrational, but something sits uneasily with me about prioritizing young lives over old lives or the lives of the able-bodied over the lives of the disabled.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Just one life, bro. One. You don't get a second. No one does.

Well, first off it seems to be more of an argument of at what point is brain dead actually dead. I would think this is an issue that transcends just donation.

Since apparently you just like to quote my posts and then talk about something that has nothing to do with what I said, I'll just leave this here for you. Enjoy.

Why not enlighten me?

First, welcome to 2012. 13 years in medical science is a lifetime. Things have changed and our protocol has changed.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/723342

Did you see what I bolded? has nothing to do with your response.

I have no idea what you linked to but it brings me to a page that just asks me to login... So your link doesn't really work.

Same here. I'll donate, but I wont waste energy trying to convince another person that they should do something with their body... because again, we could all be doing things to make the world better and we don't for similarly silly reasons.

We could all be saving a fucking life right now if we wanted to.

Yes, but most have a problem with this since you have to do nothing but check a box. Most other ways to save lives involve more than that.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

First, welcome to 2012. 13 years in medical science is a lifetime. Things have changed and our protocol has changed.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/723342

Did you see what I bolded? has nothing to do with your response.

You bolded a reference I made to the OP's article, then asked what I was talking about. I'm not sure what you're on about.

 

[Kinyou]

Well, it's not like most people would have their babies signed up to be organ donors, but if you are willing to accept an organ from someone else (as an adult), the only decent thing to do is become a donor yourself.

I wish there was a statistic on this. I can't imagine anyone not becoming a donor after he's been saved by one.

Anyway, all this fear of Organ donating just reminds me of this good old superbrutal Monty python skit

 

[FyreWulff]

Interesting. What kind of criteria are used to determine who gets the organs? I might be being irrational, but something sits uneasily with me about prioritizing young lives over old lives or the lives of the able-bodied over the lives of the disabled.

Everyone is on a list. They go down the list from the top, find a match, that person gets the organs. It is on a per-state basis, from what I remember, but you can put your name on lists in multiple states.

The only shortcut I know of is if you're related to the donator or if you know someone in person that matches and is willing to donate.

That directly contradicts Beast's post.

Hence the "Find a match". Just quotin' from memory from when someone I knew went through it.

 

[terrdactycalsrock]

So if your brain dead, your considered dead dead? I never really thought about this before...I know your brain tells everything else what to do, through the nervous system I believe,. So if those two things stop then theres no communication which means no feeling. I just always assumed that once your heart stopped working you was dead.

 

[Amibguous Cad]

Everyone is on a list. They go down the list from the top, find a match, that person gets the organs.

The only shortcut I know of is if you're related to the donator or if you know someone in person that matches and is willing to donate.

That directly contradicts Beast's post.

In general the transplant list has criterias. Ie if you need liver transplant they take your age, quality of life etc when they make a list. Its not just first come and serve.

 

[Staccat0]

Yes, but most have a problem with this since you have to do nothing but check a box. Most other ways to save lives involve more than that.

Different strokes. Not my job to sort it out. Not my organs.

 

[Al-ibn Kermit]

So if your brain dead, your considered dead dead? I never really thought about this before...I know your brain tells everything else what to do, through the nervous system I believe,. So if those two things stop then theres no communication which means no feeling. I just always assumed that once your heart stopped working you was dead.

Your brain dies about 5 minutes after your heart stops IIRC.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

If I'm in a vegetative state/brain dead, the fuck do I care if I can feel the last few minutes of my life if I'm gonna be dead anyway? Is my eventual nothingness going to be traumatized? On the other hand, one donor can save or enhance the lives of dozens of people in need.

In other words, I'm a donor and if you're afraid of being a donor I won't look down or judge you, but I will call you a pussy.

 

[Staccat0]

In other words, I'm a donor and if you're afraid of being a donor I won't look down or judge you, but I will call you a pussy.

That's not a thing.

 

[Hey You]

I want the money go to my family or to pay my medical bills (if any) off before any of it goes to the government or health authority. I'll stay an organ donor though.

 

[DJ88]

I don't think anyone here is arguing, that if you fail that test and you're brain dead, they'd want to be kept in that state with the hope of recovering

What they're saying is if they're brain dead, they'd rather just be taken off support, have all heart functions end, and be a 100% cold dead corpse instead of the low possibility of being brain dead and still feeling something as they're body is cut open and harvested.

I don't believe the article myself, but just trying to clear that up.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Different strokes. Not my job to sort it out. Not my organs.

I never said it was? I was responding to your argument that you're a hypocrite if you don't do x amount of other things to save lives around the world which doesn't make sense.

I don't think anyone here is arguing, that if you fail that test and you're brain dead, they'd want to be kept in that state with the hope of recovering

What they're saying is if they're brain dead, they'd rather just be taken off support, have all heart functions end, and be a 100% cold dead corpse instead of the low possibility of being brain dead and still feeling something as they're body is cut open and harvested.

I don't believe the article myself, but just trying to clear that up.

It seems like it is though. If you're not going to get out of it and it's better for the organs if your heart doesn't stop first what's the harm? Seems like an easy enough issue to solve by using anesthesia which apparently some do already but not required to.

 

[Orayn]

So if your brain dead, your considered dead dead? I never really thought about this before...I know your brain tells everything else what to do, through the nervous system I believe,. So if those two things stop then theres no communication which means no feeling. I just always assumed that once your heart stopped working you was dead.

You're braindead after a few minutes of oxygen deprivation under normal conditions, which may or may not involve your heart stopping. Things are a little different if you're hypothermic, which improves your chances of survival considerably.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

Why not enlighten me?

All I'm saying is that what someone does with their organs is their business. If I can't get an organ transplant because some dude doesn't want to donate because of the fear that he'll be euthanized or because he wants each of his organs placed in individual ceramic jars shaped like Peanuts characters and buried in separate countries, then I won't really give a damn.