BlackGoku03
Member
Of course. >_>Earthstrike said:
Missed the point of my post, eh?
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Why in the world are Wiis still hard to find?
- Thread starter shantyman
- Start date
Missed the point of my post, eh?
milanbaros
Member?
That S&D graph is wrong btw. The blue dot is pointless and in the wrong place. The equilibrium market price will be somewhere like $350. Right now the price is $250 so draw a line from Price to D and down to Q. Then draw a line from P to where the S&D lines touch and down to Q. You see that difference between the where the first line hits Q and the second, well thats the supply shortfall at $250.
BlackGoku03
Member
My point is, from my experience selling these things, is that Nintendo could be doing a better job of supplying these things. People do call every day asking if we have any Wiis, and I have to tell them that we don't have any.legend166 said:
We get small shipments every other week it seems. Maybe once a week if we a re lucky. Wal-mart has game vendors that do all the ordering for us, so maybe our particular one sucks, but he always says "They're coming." Small ass shipments of Wiis just isn't cutting it, and people wonder why demand is so high.
Of course, this isn't the only reason demand is high. I just think it has a lot to do with it.
^
More Wiis have been shipped worldwide during the first 8 months than any other console in history.
I'm not sure the same strategy (sidelining graphical advancement for other things) would have worked last generation.
More Wiis have been shipped worldwide during the first 8 months than any other console in history.
No idea, but it doesn't matter. That Wii Sports can be a huge system seller despite having far from cutting-edge graphics kinda illustrates my point really.Earthstrike said:
I'm not sure the same strategy (sidelining graphical advancement for other things) would have worked last generation.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
I love Krypt0nian's thesis that says the Wii is the fastest adopted system in history because people can't be arsed to pay 600 dollars for a console.
Nevermind the XBOX 360 that has way more current games than the PS3 does and one of the most hyped games of the year on the way (Halo 3). Nope, people want the 600 dollar beast with no games to play.
Nevermind the XBOX 360 that has way more current games than the PS3 does and one of the most hyped games of the year on the way (Halo 3). Nope, people want the 600 dollar beast with no games to play.
krypt0nian
Banned
DeaconKnowledge said:
Except that you read it wrong. I said that people are more willing to accept lesser graphics at a $249 pricetag, and would rather have better graphics, but are unwilling to pay $600 for them. But feel free to go the sales route again. It worked out so well for joker. He was unwilling to go the full route and suggest that they wouldn't like better visuals.
Death_Born
Banned
Look, there's a huge amount of casual gamers, parents and such who don't give a flying fart about visuals, and are naturally attracted to the cheapest console for their money. "Oh, a $600 console? No thanks. Oh look, the Wii is cheaper than the Xbox and everyone says it's good! Let me pick it up!" I'm not saying that the Xbox 360 is bad, but that bargain-hunters are attracted to the cheapest console without even considering the games or graphics.
Rocksteady33
Junior Member
Gigglepoo said:
Do you realize that the majority of "crap" games that sell are licensed products? If Harry Potter was just some wizard game with the same quality do you think it would sell? Of course not. Developers/publishers can get away with sub par gameplay and production quality because they know it will sell because they paid out of their ass to get the license to begin with.
Cooking Mama is an exception to this, but it has mass appeal, especially to females. And why is this even in the discussion? It didn't sell that well, the DS version did.
But visuals are obviously worthless if you don't have the right games, which I think is the point here.krypt0nian said:
For example, there's a $15 difference between PSP and DS in Japan yet consumers are choosing DS by about 5:1 every week. I.E. better visuals by themselves don't mean anything even if the price is equal.
If things continue as they are doing, history shows us there could be a point this generation where all three systems are the same price but Wii is still the best selling.
Jammy said:
Because I haven't played the single player? I never got into the adventure mode in the Gamecube versions either. I play Monkey Ball for the mini games. I thought the Wii version, despite having more available, was much less fun. Target was a complete joke. Did you think it was good?
Mariah Carey said:
I own Cooking Mama for my NDS. It's a fun diversion. I had no interest in paying $50 for a port of a game I own. I can't believe they had the gall to release it at that price. I'm shocked that people have actually bought it.
Rocksteady33 said:
Harry Potter was brought up earlier by another poster in a "look how well this is selling! 3rd party Wii games rule!" way and I countered with how bad it is, since I've actually finished the game.
Cooking Mama and Truama Center are continually brought up as 3rd party positives as well. I don't see full priced NDS ports as a good thing. Would people be happy if a full priced, nearly identical version of Crush or Locoroco was ported to the PS3? Or would people use this information to further mock the PS3's paltry lineup?
Christopher said:
There are always exceptions to the rules, and I don't think you would believe that "crap" sells better than "good shit" as a rule. Hence, if "crap" sells so well, "good shit" will sell even better. much better. In fact, a large portion of already small PS3 library is crap games. So, I don't think people picking on wii games not being great is not justified. Actually, wii has Mario Party 8, Resident Evil 4, Big Brain Academy, Mario Strikers, Pokemon Battle Revolution and Metroid Prime 3 for this summer. I wonder which other two consoles can match the line up with their "summer" line up. Certainly, the gaming draught only applies to 360 and PS3 this summer. Yes, GAFers wouldn't like most of wii games, but NPD sales numbers disagree with you.
krypt0nian
Banned
ziran said:
Again, sales sales sales. People would still want better visuals. Even for the Nintendo games. I know I wish Metroid/Zelda were playing with power.
:lolkrypt0nian said:
But this is a sales thread!
Personal opinion about wants from individual games/developers or the direction the industry should be going in is irrelevant, especially from people who post here, who have virtually zero impact in what is selling. Logical discussion revolves around what is selling and finding reasons why, so predictions can be made for what might happen in the future.
I'd like better visuals, the majority of people here would, but Wii's graphical ability isn't so much of an issue I'm not enjoying console, but, ultimately, this has nothing to do with the point of this thread.
Koshiro said:
Wow...
It's virtually identical. Its a slightly more fleshed out version of the $20 NDS game. Multiplayer and a few more recipes does not make it a sequel. Are you really happy that developers can make money porting NDS games to the Wii? People actually think this is a good thing?
krypt0nian
Banned
ziran said:
We weren't talking about sales in this side discussion as they had nothing to do with it. It may have been a derail, but it was what it was.
It was to do with someone saying that we were close to Nintendo's fictional visual "saturation point" But coming in late I could see how you might be lost.
Brofist
Member
Nintendo's recent popularity is all due to their ability to nail the latest trends. I guess it's good for their sales, but it doesn't do all that much for me that they are riding a wave of training games, and other crap. It makes for some nice Nintendo pac-man charts I guess though.
krypt0nian
Banned
Jokeropia said:
And my comment was that your/Nintendo's "saturation point" is laughable. I maintain that to be true.
But what the sales show is that you're in the minority. (It's also kind of immature to find subjective opinions laughable, but whatever.)krypt0nian said:
Saturation: "to a very full extent, esp. beyond the point regarded as necessary or desirable."
Wii graphics are beyond the point regarded by the majority as necessary.
krypt0nian
Banned
Jokeropia said:
Rehashing again. Just because someone buys something that is ok, it doesn't mean that better is not desirable. But you knew that. We are no where near a "saturation point" We very well might never be. As long as there is room for improvement, people will desire that improvement. Look at the people fawning over Prime 3's visuals. They certainly weren't doing the same over wii Sports graphics. So obviously better is desired.
So it follows that if Prime 3 had PS3/360 level visuals or Crisis, they would be better received. Then once tech moves beyond that, the "saturation point" moves with it.
Whether it is selling well now or not tells us nothing about a "saturation point" But again you know that. That's why you couldn't tell me that they poit blank would not prefer current tech graphics. It would have been a lie.
kpop100 said:
fixed.
No one knew they wanted a simpler, more intuitive way of playing games, or software to exercise their brain, or touchscreen control, or waggle, or easily made charicatures of themselves - not until Nintendo told them they did. Nintendo has been at least three steps ahead of anyone else in the industry for going on 4 years, probably more.
The chart I'd like to see is the 'Wii sales: GAF animosity' chart. It realy seems like the hate for Nintendo and the Wii continues to grow as the console moves further and further away from its competitors. I guess people don't like going from being the center of the industry's attention to being on the verge of irrelevance. Good for all of us that never understood the draw of generic future-space FPS #31446, though.
krypt0nian
Banned
AniHawk said:
Kingdom Hearts 3 wii CONFIRMED!!!
I don't see the point in arguing over how the price of the Wii has helped its success. Obviously the price is a big part of it, and is in the comfort zone of many, but a good price and a desirable product are both needed. Right now Wii is selling well because of a few very unique games and a nice price. If Nintendo is able to keep this momentum going even when the competition drops their prices then it will be because they have the product that people want to buy and plenty of games consumers want to play.
Some people are acting like most of the Wii owners out there went into the store hoping to get a PS3, but then saw the price and went with the Wii instead. Sure it would look like a joke if the PS3 and Wii were the same price, but that would never happen without a big upgrade or downgrade in either, so it's not even worth talking about.
Some people are acting like most of the Wii owners out there went into the store hoping to get a PS3, but then saw the price and went with the Wii instead. Sure it would look like a joke if the PS3 and Wii were the same price, but that would never happen without a big upgrade or downgrade in either, so it's not even worth talking about.
krypt0nian
Banned
AniHawk said:
I <3 Ani!
That's a ridiculous definition and you know it. If a bottle of water is half-full and that's all I happen to want at the moment, does that mean the water has hit the "saturation point"? Anyone sane and not being deliberately thick for the sake of the argument would tell you that no, whatever you happen to need--even what the majority need--does not constitute the saturation point. The saturation point would be when the bottle was so full of water that it wasn't feasible to add any more. The analogy, which is pretty bad because usually you'd be talking about something being saturated in the water and would completely ignore the "majority opinion," which is why your argument is so ridiculous, nonetheless carries over to graphics as well. Maybe consumers don't need better graphics but they sure as hell can tell that there's room for improvement, so we haven't reached the saturation point yet. Not even close. We still haven't created convincingly photorealistic humans in CG, let alone gameplay. Not even with motion capture and polygon counts of five million and Blizzard CG. How can you say, with all that, that Wii games, most of which aren't even of high-end Gamecube caliber, represents the saturation point?Jokeropia said:
krypt0nian said:
krypt0nian said:
Fair enough, but I disagree. I think Jokeropia's right.krypt0nian said:
It really isn't that the mass market can't tell the difference, it's that they don't care about it so it isn't much of factor for them, which is what Nintendo has been saying for years. Gaming simply isn't important enough for the mass market to be bothered about visuals in the same way we are. Videogaming is just a bit of fun to pass some time for most people and Wii's graphics are more than adequate.
So:
Do videogame graphics have room for improvement? Yes.
Is this improvement a major selling point for the mass market? No.
As I said, I think everyone here would like better graphics for Wii, but history, and what's been happening over the last few years shows us the mass market doesn't care. Nintendo didn't gamble on Wii without any basis, it wasn't a stab in the dark, it was a calculated move based on previous trends and it's paying off big time.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
krypt0nian said:
Uh, of course people would want better graphics for a cheaper price. Do you feel vindicated with this knowledge?
My argument was based on your tirade about the superior graphics of the PS3 when the XBOX 360 has comparable graphics for 200 dollars cheaper. Forget the Wii for a second. Why would people not interested in Blu-Ray pick the PS3 over the 360?
krypt0nian
Banned
DeaconKnowledge said:
You assume the PS3 has superior graphics than the 360. It doesn't thusfar. Which had nothing to do with what I said. It was solely on the fictional "saturation point". Go fight someone else.
spoon! said:
It was just chosen as an arbitrary point on the demand line. It seems rather pointless, though. That's what the demand curve means anyways. The number of Wiis sold at $250 lies on the supply curve, but the demand curve must be above it at that point.
You're right. It doesn't really make much sense... Unless that's the price the Wii would could sell for (and still sell the same number of units)
In the short run:
Code:
| D S
| \ /
P | \ /
| \/
| /\
| Ø- \ - - - $250
| /| \
|__/_|____\_____
|
400k/month
QGigglepoo said:
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
That's almost like playing Fusion Frenzy for the single player.
Essentially, you're saying the game is mediocre and doesn't deserve the sales it received because... you didn't like what they did to Monkey Target? Jesus Christ. You're missing a good 80% of the game by skipping the single player in those games - a single player that's still to this day very fresh, challenging, and often times brilliant.
Did you play Monkey Wars (the FPS), Number Ball, the top-down shooter mini-game, etc., etc. too? Not all of them are complete ass. Some of them are very good diversions... which is really all the mini-games in Super Monkey Ball games are.
At least go through SOME of the game before you go screaming from the rooftops that A game doesn't deserve X sales.
Jammy said:
You're quite obnoxious. I'm sure there are people who only play the multiplayer in Halo, who didn't even know there was a campaign in Starcraft and who took one look at the insane levels in Marble Blast and tried the online mode instead. I never said the Wii version was bad, I asked a legitimate question. Someone mentioned Sonic and Monkey Ball and I asked if they thought the games were good or bad. Sonic is a horrible game. Monkey Ball is just worse than its predecessors.
To the people talking about graphic saturation, hasn't the market shown that N64 graphics are fine? The NDS is the best selling system in the world sporting graphics straight out of the mid 90s. The PS2 sold well but, since other consoles had better graphics, there is no way to know how it would have faired had it offered the same graphics as the N64. Personally, I have trouble playing N64 games (and can't play 3D PSX games) so, even if the market still thinks the N64 is the pinnacle of 3D, I am glad we've moved beyond that.
As for graphics, one question does remain: as HDTV become more and more popular, will people be content with Wii graphics?
SouthernDragon
Member
Can't believe he argued that based on just playing the mini-games mostly.
It'd be like arguing that MP2 was terrible because all I did was play the multiplayer.
MP2 may be a hotly contested game, but it's a good game by any standard. It had two prominent flaws and didn't live up to the original, but that's not saying much.
It'd be like arguing that MP2 was terrible because all I did was play the multiplayer.
MP2 may be a hotly contested game, but it's a good game by any standard. It had two prominent flaws and didn't live up to the original, but that's not saying much.
Sharp said:
Huh, I didn't think of that. There should probably be an E somewhere in that acronym so as to alleviate confusion. It is Metroid Prime 2 Echoes, not simply Metroid Prime 2.
As to his crappy point: I played a ton of multiplayer in Super Monkey Ball 2. I think it's fair to compare my own experiences to Super Monkey Ball Wii. Or do you think it's wise to compare the multiplayer in one game to the single player in another?
SouthernDragon
Member
I found that his judgment of Super Monkey Ball as a whole based on his experience on the mini-games while ignoring the widely acclaimed single player experience is tantamount to saying Metroid Prime 2 was a bad game because I played only the multiplayer while never touching the single player.
The reason my post looks out of place is because it is; while I wrote and posted, a member posted before I did, and thus it came out disjointed.
Edit: No, of course not. The multiplayer in Monkey Ball Wii is inferior to the multiplayer in the Gamecube iteration.
However, to say that the game as a whole is not good based on almost solely the multiplayer is folly.
I'd suppose the multiplayer on its own is strong enough to carry Monkey Ball but to miss out on the excellent single player is missing out on the point of the series, which is a challenging set of puzzles. To each his own, however.
The reason my post looks out of place is because it is; while I wrote and posted, a member posted before I did, and thus it came out disjointed.
Edit: No, of course not. The multiplayer in Monkey Ball Wii is inferior to the multiplayer in the Gamecube iteration.
However, to say that the game as a whole is not good based on almost solely the multiplayer is folly.
I'd suppose the multiplayer on its own is strong enough to carry Monkey Ball but to miss out on the excellent single player is missing out on the point of the series, which is a challenging set of puzzles. To each his own, however.
Why the hell are you comparing SMB2 to SMB: BB in any such way?
You said in the last page "Is that an example of good or bad games selling?" which is what got this whole argument started. The whole question sounded sarcastic - like you think the game is so mediocre that it could even be possibly seen as a bad game. If you didn't mean it in such a way, that's still not the point.
So what if it's not as good as the first? It's a good game and still sold well. And for all you know, the Wii game could have a much better single player than the first two (which it doesn't, but you wouldn't know that). And that still doesn't change the fact that it's definitely a game worth picking up and deserves getting those sales it got.
You said in the last page "Is that an example of good or bad games selling?" which is what got this whole argument started. The whole question sounded sarcastic - like you think the game is so mediocre that it could even be possibly seen as a bad game. If you didn't mean it in such a way, that's still not the point.
So what if it's not as good as the first? It's a good game and still sold well. And for all you know, the Wii game could have a much better single player than the first two (which it doesn't, but you wouldn't know that). And that still doesn't change the fact that it's definitely a game worth picking up and deserves getting those sales it got.
Gigglepoo said:
Y'know, I own Sonic. It isn't good, but it isn't 'terrible' either. In fact, if you get past the bad first couple hours of levelling up, there are a couple moments of joy to be had. It's an average game, one which is certainly quite a bit better than the game labelled as the non-spinoff.
You still don't get what I'm saying, do you? Saturation in the manner I used it means that it's reached a point where it's good enough, and by good enough I mean that no major graphical upgrade is required from last generation to be the most desired system in this generation. I don't think this was the case at the end of the PS1/N64 generation, and a strategy like the one Wii is using would probably not have worked out as well back then. That's what makes the current generation different in this respect.krypt0nian said:
It doesn't mean that graphics cannot or should not evolve beyond this point, just that Nintendo choose the correct time to slow down (not stop!) the graphical arms race and shifting the primary focus to other things.
I didn't make it up, it's in the dictionary! Words can have several (often slightly different) meanings, but all of them are valid.Sharp said:
monkeylite
Member
Plenty of Wiis in the part of London I live in.
Mariah Carey
Member
Gigglepoo said:
Again, I haven't played all games/ versions in question but I would hesitate to call games like Trauma Center and Cooking Mama for Wii 'identical' to their DS counterparts because almost by definition they must be played differently. I agree Cooking Mama is too expensive (and the sole reason I haven't bought it yet) but I can't imagine playing it or Trauma Center on Wii being 'the same thing' as playing it on the DS.
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