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[noshten]

The way I see it and I believe Ta-Nehisi Coates doesn't see it, all people forced to live in a ghetto deserve reperations. All people whose chances at sending their kids at college are nil deserve it, all people that work their ass off struggling to make a living while some fat cat is making millions or billions.Stability matters, opportunity matters, growing up in healthy neighborhood matters, not being at risk of crime matters. All those things can get resolved if money is thrown into it. Everyone contributes towards the well being of the organism that is society but there is always those who are mistreated and obviously in large proportion its minorities both racial and social that carry the biggest burden because they can easily be identified as different.
No one should be struggling or dealing with racism in a society where I can fly around the world in 24 hours, virtually have the majority of information available to mankind at my fingertips and have ample time to reflect on both society and myself.
The existing system is flawed and can only be kept operating by outright fraud and manipulation. Part of that manipulation is creating the needed environments for conflicts to arise between two differing groups of people. Do Iraquis deserve reparations - you damn right they do. I can list you 200 countries around the Globe that deserve reparation from the developed World. It's just a matter of figuring out how to directly give a reparation on such a grand scale which is far more complicated than handing out a check. How do you decide what the cost of generations under slavery is, I'm not talking about converting hours into dollars. How do you qualify the value of a country? Put a price to the souls of a peoples? There are all questions we need to ask ourselves and be far more in-tune with legitimate questions like this. I realize Bernie brushed it off, and personally I would have had handled it differently understand where he is coming from and base that entirely out of his historic record. This is the type of legitimate problem the Black community can have with Sanders and I understand them if they don't vote for him because of it.

 

[Izuna]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not an expert here, but I'm pretty sure that putting infrastructure in place for reparations will do a lot more good for black people than what hurt white feelings will do to undo it.

Spoiler

you win

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Why isn't this a good argument?

It's the law-makers that will pass this knowing full well there are many people who will revolt over it. The idea that this will cause violence and anger isn't exactly far-fetched.

Because with that mentality nothing would ever get done. There is always resistance, to literally everything out there which exists, and you can't let the potential bad prevent you from implementing progress that benefits all.

Granted, on this aspect of reparations, I'm split on it. OTOH, I do feel disenfranchised minority groups, such as African Americans who have lineage traceable back to slaves, deserve something more than a mere apology for what their ancestors had to put up with. Because the actions and policies their ancestors went through, just diluted, mutated and adapted to modern times. They've never fully gone away.

There's also the fact that, financially, the U.S can pull the money out of its ass and thin air, like it currently does. Money doesn't have value based on gold or silver anymore; it's all based on computer code and credit. It's fiat money, and we've had zero problems borrowing from China in the past. If politicians truly wanted to do reparations, they could easily do so, since it'd only require (at worst) borrowing more money from countries like China, and hey, we're already trillions into debt as it is. What's another trillion or two?

On the other hand, just passing money around seems counter-productive. We're already a society too entrenched into valuing fiat currency, as it's the source of so many economic ills. Also, if the possibility exists that some people would use that money irresponsibly (just as many do with inheritance money, for example), then you can bet that they will, and that's just more money stupidly wasted affecting debt and GDP negatively.

The better way to put that money to good use would be, as a couple of posters suggested, to pump it into programs and services (both public and private) that provide advanced education options, training options etc. for low-income groups (knowing that a lot of those within those groups are going to be African American) and businesses that operate in predominantly urban and black-populated areas, provide incentives for training and hiring black people, provide business funding incentives for businesses that operate in black-populated areas or show an established history of hiring black employees and have a good non-discrimination record with black employees, etc.

This way you still benefit the main group, but without alienating other groups. So this could also immensely benefit, say, Korean/Arab shops in predominantly black neighborhoods, or small/mid-sized businesses that have a traceable history of employing black people by some measure (at least in measure w/ the population makeup, for instance) without too much deviation below that standard, for a defined period of some years (let's say 10-15 years for a start). So this actually ends up potentially benefiting people of all ethnicities, genders, sexual identities etc, while still also benefiting black people in terms of reparations for what their ancestors went through in the country.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

Exactly. It would just be like a Lotto anyway where people blow all the money because of lack of education/opportunity which has been government driven.

I'd like to see reparations in the form of education grants.. help for single mothers.. healthcare..

Shit like that.

All this.

Or at very least improve things now, and then deal with repairations later when peoples situations have improved and they won't be too thirsty to use that money productively.

 

[nitekrawlwer]

This way you still benefit the main group, but without alienating other groups.

Why does this conversation always revolve around white fragility? The government gave reparations to slave owners in money. Why was it good enough for whites but not such a good idea now?

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

All this.

Or at very least improve things now, and then deal with repairations later when peoples situations have improved and they won't be too thirsty to use that money productively.

Part of the problem with that approach is that A: It assumes that most black people aren't smart enough to spend the money wisely.

I mean, I wouldn't necessarily be going around buying mansions with four full-sized tennis courts or every production model of a Ferrari in history, like many non-black celebrities with that kind of money do, but I wouldn't yank the handing of the money over to them just at the risk of them spending it stupidly. White Hollywood celebrities spend money stupidly all the time; a person isn't going to suddenly spend big wads of money more stupidly just because they're black.

B: Some form of reparations, at least as I described it in my above post, would "improve things now". The two are not mutually exclusive.

Why does this conversation always revolve around white fragility? The government gave reparations to slave owners in money. Why was it good enough for whites but not such a good idea now?

I'm approaching this from an angle where we can try and do things better than how they were done in the past, while still making right for those who deserve it. It's unfortunate how things went back then, but we have to be better than that these days, if we're to truly claim we're progressing. Just because reparations to slave owners back then excluded groups, doesn't mean reparations to black people today have to exclude groups.

And I'm talking about individuals within businesses that actually contribute some positive impact to black neighborhoods or employees, not just random Joe or Jane out west somewhere. That's why I made the mention about Korean/Arab shops in black neighborhoods for examples of businesses that could see benefits (as well as black-owned businesses in those neighborhoods, obviously) by operating fairly in black neighborhoods and/or hiring black employees, in addition to still providing monetary benefits to said black people, even those who don't work at those businesses, so long as they have lineage traceable back to slaves.

As a population in general, we have to get over this "do me wrong, do you wrong" childish bullcrap and try to be as inclusive as possible while righting the wrongs of the past. You could modify what I'm suggesting and use it for a reparation model for, say, Native Americans, as well. Just make sure the ones who are most in line for those reparations, get what they deserve.

 

[Manmademan]

Part of the problem with that approach is that A: It assumes that most black people aren't smart enough to spend the money wisely.

no, it assumes most PEOPLE aren't smart enough to spend the money wisely. Look at what happens with your average lottery winner. Financial education isn't taught to anyone not pursuing a finance degree.

At best, the money is blown on trivial shit or pays down credit card debt etc that does nothing to fix the situation. at worst, cottage industries set themselves up to exploit people that don't know any better, offering predatory loans to people with reparation money and they end up worse off than before. edit: look at the plague of "tax refund loan" places that pop up every spring. They'll happily advance you the money the government owes you..for a 30% cut off the top. You'll just end up making corrupt rich white people even richer under the guise of helping black people.

Throwing cash at the problem and saying "everything's fixed" is less than worthless. Sustainable improvements in public education, infrastructure, transportation etc are the only things that arent, and we should be doing this regardless across the board reparations or no.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

no, it assumes most PEOPLE aren't smart enough to spend the money wisely. Look at what happens with your average lottery winner. Financial education isn't taught to anyone not pursuing a finance degree.

At best, the money is blown on trivial shit or pays down credit card debt etc that does nothing to fix the situation. at worst, cottage industries set themselves up to exploit people that don't know any better, offering predatory loans to people with reparation money and they end up worse off than before. edit: look at the plague of "tax refund loan" places that pop up every spring. They'll happily advance you the money the government owes you..for a 30% cut off the top.

Throwing cash at the problem and saying "everything's fixed" is less than worthless. Sustainable improvements in public education, infrastructure, transportation etc are the only things that arent, and we should be doing this regardless across the board reparations or no.

Maybe those lottery winners happen to incidentally be stupid? Dunno; if I ever won the lottery, I certainly would never blindly waste the money away, and I never pursued an education in high-function finance. I don't think it's necessary for most people with at least a semi-decent IQ, regardless of degree of financial education (although that would obviously help).

In the end I'm actually in agreement w/ that poster's idea on the fundamental level; I just questioned that cautionary reason as being completely legitimate for dissuading pursuit of the idea of reparations as a whole. There are smarter ways to distribute reparation money productively and do so in a way that can politically side-step some of the negative feelings of envy that'd come up from certain others, depending on their stance/relation with providing opportunities and services to black people (in this particular case) that could be verified and thus also benefit them in some way.

Because realistically speaking, the only way any form of major reparations would get by with support in this country is through providing benefits for others who may also happen to fall outside of the targeted group, depending on the involvement those people as individuals have with communities of people of that group, irrespective of those individual's ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender, etc.

And it's also the more progressive way to handle this as a society that's supposed to be moving forward, not backwards.

 

[Grover]

reparations seem like they would make racial tensions even worse

 

[TheLaughingStock]

I think it's ridiculous that it's not on the table given his other proposals and need of the minority vote to have any shot. And lol at the US having zero connection to that part of history....I mean c'mon! Wow.

 

[noshten]

I think it's ridiculous that it's not on the table given his other proposals and need of the minority vote to have any shot. And lol at the US having zero connection to that part of history....I mean c'mon! Wow.

That's quite cynical of you, but I guess to be expected.

 

[KingV]

Why does this conversation always revolve around white fragility? The government gave reparations to slave owners in money. Why was it good enough for whites but not such a good idea now?

How do you decide who gets reparations and how much?

All black people? Do you have to prove some sort of direct familial link to slavery? What if you're mulatto? How "black" does one have to be?

It's so incredibly problematic that the very idea of figuring out those details would be discriminatory. Or there would be groups of people left out because of some kind of administrative hurdle that they couldn't prove. I'm about as liberal of a white guy as you can find, an I can tell you I absolutely wouldn't support giving individuals some significant sum of money based on slavery of a long dead relative that they are 5 or 6 generations removed from.

I would gladly support all manner of poverty fighting initiatives, extra support for people living in poor conditions, affirmative action, and paying for college, but not something that's contingent on tracing one's bloodline back to a plantation. It's just not a good way to target resources.

 

[The Llama]

Just curious, hypothetically, how much money are we talking? $1,000 per person? $10,000? $100,000? $1,000,000?

 

[Opto]

fearing irresponsible spending as a reason not to do it is the same argument for any cut in food stamp funding

 

[Christopher]

In theory it would go to every African American since even if they are newly immigrant they are the moment they enter the US inheriting the problems facing the Black Community in the US.

...this is just nonsense

 

[King Tubby]

I think it's ridiculous that it's not on the table given his other proposals and need of the minority vote to have any shot. And lol at the US having zero connection to that part of history....I mean c'mon! Wow.

As it happens, white people also vote.

 

[nitekrawlwer]

How do you decide who gets reparations and how much?

All black people? Do you have to prove some sort of direct familial link to slavery? What if you're mulatto? How "black" does one have to be?

It's so incredibly problematic that the very idea of figuring out those details would be discriminatory. Or there would be groups of people left out because of some kind of administrative hurdle that they couldn't prove. I'm about as liberal of a white guy as you can find, an I can tell you I absolutely wouldn't support giving individuals some significant sum of money based on slavery of a long dead relative that they are 5 or 6 generations removed from.

I would gladly support all manner of poverty fighting initiatives, extra support for people living in poor conditions, affirmative action, and paying for college, but not something that's contingent on tracing one's bloodline back to a plantation. It's just not a good way to target resources.

One drop. The standard whites have used for ages to determine blackness. I guess we only need a new system when white folks don't want to come out of pocket.

Well guess what. Since blacks are disproportionately represented in the poor people group it would be an excellent way of targetting resources. Just one white America would be bitter about. Funny how people love to fight poverty when the poor look like them.

 

[Tesseract]

i'm irish, native american, african american

bring forth the dump truck of money

 

[Christopher]

i'm irish, native american, african american

bring forth the dump truck of money

Nice mix I'm almost the same but Italian instead of native.

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

...this is just nonsense

Is it ? The purpose of the reparations would be to help the black community at large and even if they didn't suffer slavery they would still be effective by it today. And for people who think that's ridiculous as civil war happened a long time ago remember the Confederate flag issue only some months ago.

 

[HawkeyeIC]

Couldn't imagine what giving $1M per black person would do to inflation...

 

[Mumei]

Is it ? The purpose of the reparations would be to help the black community at large and even if they didn't suffer slavery they would still be effective by it today. And for people who think that's ridiculous as civil war happened a long time ago remember the Confederate flag issue only some months ago.

Yes, it is. In the past, when Coates has argued for reparations, he's made a case in the context of red-lining, where it is possible to know who was victimized. Many of the logistical objections that people make when arguing against reparations for slavery are not applicable in that scenario.

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

Yes, it is. In the past, when Coates has argued for reparations, he's made a case in the context of red-lining, where it is possible to know who was victimized. Many of the logistical objections that people make when arguing against reparations for slavery are not applicable in that scenario.

So is victimized definition for specific time periods (ie civil war and pre civil rights ) which cuts out racial issues today. If so I don't think it would neccearily help. Using Cilvil rights era would be the easiest as the civil war era will be quite messy to implement.

 

[nitekrawlwer]

Part of the problem with that approach is that A: It assumes that most black people aren't smart enough to spend the money wisely.

I mean, I wouldn't necessarily be going around buying mansions with four full-sized tennis courts or every production model of a Ferrari in history, like many non-black celebrities with that kind of money do, but I wouldn't yank the handing of the money over to them just at the risk of them spending it stupidly. White Hollywood celebrities spend money stupidly all the time; a person isn't going to suddenly spend big wads of money more stupidly just because they're black.

B: Some form of reparations, at least as I described it in my above post, would "improve things now". The two are not mutually exclusive.



I'm approaching this from an angle where we can try and do things better than how they were done in the past, while still making right for those who deserve it. It's unfortunate how things went back then, but we have to be better than that these days, if we're to truly claim we're progressing. Just because reparations to slave owners back then excluded groups, doesn't mean reparations to black people today have to exclude groups.

And I'm talking about individuals within businesses that actually contribute some positive impact to black neighborhoods or employees, not just random Joe or Jane out west somewhere. That's why I made the mention about Korean/Arab shops in black neighborhoods for examples of businesses that could see benefits (as well as black-owned businesses in those neighborhoods, obviously) by operating fairly in black neighborhoods and/or hiring black employees, in addition to still providing monetary benefits to said black people, even those who don't work at those businesses, so long as they have lineage traceable back to slaves.

As a population in general, we have to get over this "do me wrong, do you wrong" childish bullcrap and try to be as inclusive as possible while righting the wrongs of the past. You could modify what I'm suggesting and use it for a reparation model for, say, Native Americans, as well. Just make sure the ones who are most in line for those reparations, get what they deserve.

Asking to be paid for unpaid labor is not do me wrong, do you wrong. Nor is it childish. It's fair and equitable. That's of course ignoring how America has treated them since.

I'm not against a society with better schools and helping poor people. Let's just not pretend that helping everyone has ever worked in an egalitarian manner in the US. So no I don't believe this help everyone bs is going to equally apply to blacks. Affirmative Action was for Blacks and still helped white women more.

If America wants to be better it's not going to be by denying and ignoring the past and present. They have wronged groups specifically and should aim to repair the damage to those groups specifically. Anything less is a cop out and a devaluation of my ancestors labor.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

I think black families in America who had enslaved ancestors should definitely get reparations of some kind, as should all Native American families.

 

[excelsiorlef]

You are warning of the potential backlash that social progress will cause.

I legitimately do not understand why that is worth considering when all social progress causes backlash.

Thank you.

 

[Lynn616]

One drop. The standard whites have used for ages to determine blackness. I guess we only need a new system when white folks don't want to come out of pocket.

Well guess what. Since blacks are disproportionately represented in the poor people group it would be an excellent way of targetting resources. Just one white America would be bitter about. Funny how people love to fight poverty when the poor look like them.

I was looking into getting my DNA tested recently and did a bit of research. One of the things I learned was that about 4 percent of whites have at least 1 percent or more African ancestry. In the South it is closer to 10% of whites. Do they get a check too?

 

[excelsiorlef]

The issue is that other groups have been marginalized.

Other groups don't have the century + long history of slavery and segregation

 

[pigeon]

reparations seem like they would make racial tensions even worse

This is probably true, and thinking about it will give you a good view of where racial tensions in America actually come from.

 

[nitekrawlwer]

I was looking into getting my DNA tested recently and did a bit of research. One of the things I learned was that about 4 percent of whites have at least 1 percent or more African ancestry. In the South it is closer to 10% of whites. Do they get a check too?

What part of the one drop rule do you not understand? It should make my answer superfluous.

 

[injurai]

Couldn't imagine what giving $1M per black person would do to inflation...

Yeah, it simply wouldn't work for so many reasons. I'm really not impressed by some of the soft-social science claims on how reparations will go to lengths to solve things. I agree we need to set aside a pretty exorbitant amount of money and resources, and pump it into lifting up the disenfranchised populations of our nation. But it really won't be effective to just pay out damages owed.

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

Yeah, it simply wouldn't work for so many reasons. I'm really not impressed by some of the soft-social science claims on how reparations will go to lengths to solve things. I agree we need to set aside a pretty exorbitant amount of money and resources, and pump it into lifting up the disenfranchised populations of our nation. But it really won't be effective to just pay out damages owed.

I believe I was the only one to mention 1 million dollar and that was not for them to actually get that as a reparation only that it is what they deserved. The US clearly doesn't have enough money to be possible its was only used to emphasis how much shit they had to put up with.

 

[Mumei]

This is probably true, and thinking about it will give you a good view of where racial tensions in America actually come from.

Yep.

So is victimized definition for specific time periods (ie civil war and pre civil rights ) which cuts out racial issues today. If so I don't think it would neccearily help. Using Cilvil rights era would be the easiest as the civil war era will be quite messy to implement.

It might be that I'm tired or dumb, but I'm not following how you think this cuts out racial issues today. Can you explain your thinking?

 

[TheLaughingStock]

How do you decide who gets reparations and how much?

All black people? Do you have to prove some sort of direct familial link to slavery? What if you're mulatto? How "black" does one have to be?

It's so incredibly problematic that the very idea of figuring out those details would be discriminatory. Or there would be groups of people left out because of some kind of administrative hurdle that they couldn't prove. I'm about as liberal of a white guy as you can find, an I can tell you I absolutely wouldn't support giving individuals some significant sum of money based on slavery of a long dead relative that they are 5 or 6 generations removed from.

As far as the process goes, it's politically determined that health care extracts x% of GDP, Social Security takes x%, defense gets x%, etc. The share you take/are given is arbitrary in society, it's problematic, and we share these resources by floating numbers on PCs and occasionally pieces of paper around. But it's the best we've got until someone or a group of people outlines a better idea and it's accepted by people who matter.

In any event, it's not really about slavery being a long time ago. Most of that is just fronts and excuses and really only shielded by the law at the time. However, quite a few blacks deserve nice chunks of money right now following the financial crisis for being targeted. In addition, there are more blacks that should be compensated for getting locked up over BS. There's at least several major civil and criminal incidents against a whole slew of blacks going on as we speak. Yet, no matter the situation or the circumstance racists and bigots don't properly compensate blacks. I don't really understand the mind of some of my peers. Do you really think you can shit on someone based off of the color of their skin for free?

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

Yep.



It might be that I'm tired or dumb, but I'm not following how you think this cuts out racial issues today. Can you explain your thinking?

While Actually I am on the position that money itself probably won't help much at all and that the best reparation would be for the money instead go to programs to help all of the African American Community.

I also previously mentioned that we should really handle the racial issue first and that I'm not to optimistic that reparations would even happen in the world we live in today with essentially Blacks getting shot for just wearing hoodies.

My issue with cut off lines is that the impact from slavery is still be felt today whether the persons ancestors were slaves or not.Which is why I feel reparations money going to African American services would be of more help and the simplest way to implement.

 

[SheSaidNo]

Would the reparations, if passed and were a monetary thing, only apply to the current black population of the united states, or would it apply to future generations as well?

 

[injurai]

As far as the process goes, it's politically determined that health care extracts x% of GDP, Social Security takes x%, defense gets x%, etc. The share you take/are given is arbitrary in society, it's problematic, and we share these resources by floating numbers on PCs and pieces of paper around. But it's the best we've got until someone or a group of people outlines a better idea and it's accepted by people who matter.

In any event, it's not really about slavery being a long time ago. Most of that is just fronts and excuses. Quite a few blacks deserve nice chunk of money right now following the financial crisis for being targeted. In addition, there are more blacks that should be compensated for getting locked up over BS. There's at several major civil and criminal incidents against a whole slew of blacks going on as we speak. Yet, no matter the situation or the circumstance racists and bigots don't properly compensate blacks. I don't really understand the mind of some of my peers. Do you really think you can shit on someone based off of the color of their skin for free?

You point out the housing crisis, and the entire lower income bracket was targeted. A lot of the generational struggles of the blacks can be seen through the lense of class warfare. When so much of local wealth is based on income tax and property tax, there just isn't enough money to kickstart the lives of people living in squalor.

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

Would the reparations, if passed and were a monetary thing, only apply to the current black population of the united states, or would it apply to future generations as well?

It would be a one time deal unless the money was invested in the community instead.

 

[pigeon]

A lot of the generational struggles of the blacks can be seen through the lense of class warfare.

This is true, but it doesn't mean that class warfare is the RIGHT lens, it's just one you can use if you want to avoid thinking too much about racial conflict. Black people live in vastly poorer neighborhoods with vastly poorer opportunities. It's not meaningful to analyze them as simply being poor people without understanding why they're poor and why they've remained poor.

 

[Valhelm]

Other groups don't have the century + long history of slavery and segregation

Oh, I agree. Problem is, many black Americans do not descend from people who felt and fought against historic oppression. But the descendants of black immigrants certainly experience anti-black racism, and many are descended from people enslaved by the British or the France. Should they get reparations as well?

 

[B-Dubs]

A lot of the generational struggles of the blacks can be seen through the lense of class warfare.

At the same time a lot of it cannot be seen through that lens. The issue is more complicated than that.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Oh, I agree. Problem is, many black Americans do not descend from people who felt and fought against historic oppression. But the descendants of black immigrants certainly experience anti-black racism, and many are descended from people enslaved by the British or the France. Should they get reparations as well?

The entire system that has oppressed black folk is derived from slavery. These non direct descendants live in it too.

 

[injurai]

This is true, but it doesn't mean that class warfare is the RIGHT lens, it's just one you can use if you want to avoid thinking too much about racial conflict. Black people live in vastly poorer neighborhoods with vastly poorer opportunities. It's not meaningful to analyze them as simply being poor people without understanding why they're poor and why they've remained poor.

At the same time a lot of it cannot be seen through that lens. The issue is more complicated than that.

Let me be more clear. I'm not advocating it as the only lense. I'm saying that amongst many dynamics in play, there are a number that don't see race. Especially a lot of economic ones, that only see numbers. Well due to other dynamics that did see race, blacks have been thrown into a class that get's left in the dust. The economy will happily walk all over the low income working class, regardless of race. Yes blacks were hurt by the housing crisis, so was an entire multi-ethnic class. The point is, in repairing our nation and to attone for the generations of disenfranchisement of black; Entire systems need to be fixed first in order to really have an effective shot at balancing the scales in the sky.

 

[Byakuya769]

Let me be more clear. I'm not advocating it as the only lense. I'm saying that amongst many dynamics in play, there are a number that don't see race. Especially a lot of economic ones, that only see numbers. Well due to other dynamics that did see race, blacks have been thrown into a class that get's left in the dust. The economy will happily walk all over the low income working class, regardless of race. Yes blacks were hurt by the housing crisis, so was an entire multi-ethnic class. The point is, in repairing our nation and to attone for the generations of disenfranchisement of black; Entire systems need to be fixed first in order to really have an effective shot at balancing the scales in the sky.

Sounds good!

[T]he colony mandated that “all horses, cattle, and hogs, now belonging, or that hereafter shall belong to any slave” be seized and sold off by the local church, the profits used to support “the poor of the said parish.”

The Case for Reparations

 

[Tesseract]

germany owes hollywood some monies

 

[akira28]

Spoiler

you win

did he really win when what it really took was just for you to realize something? Didn't *you* win?

This is when that skeptical rationalism becomes more than just a hypothetical obstacle and more an insurmountable one multiplied by 100 million.

 

[Nuu]

Spoiler

you win

What exactly is controversial with what he said? There is a reason no candidate has proposed reparations. And it goes beyond "but the whites will be against it!"

 

[Izuna]

did he really win when what it really took was just for you to realize something? Didn't *you* win?

This is when that skeptical rationalism becomes more than just a hypothetical obstacle and more an insurmountable one multiplied by 100 million.

I can't even bring myself to play devil's advocate. If someone else wants to argue that stance, sure. But if I tried to now it would just be nonsense.

So what I thought I would do is step out of this argument and spend time thinking about it.

Ergo, he won.

 

[Clefargle]

I'm for reparations, even knowing that it's unlikely and barely feasible. I think the crux here is that many of Sander's other plans are just as unlikely to pass in the current political climate and really difficult to adapt here in the US. I still think his ideas are great, I just wonder why he chose this one to write off as sky pie and not his own. Prolly because they are his own ideas, but that won't help his perception problem with minorities.

 

[LosDaddie]

huh
Nice little wedge issue for some liberals to feel superior to other liberals. Obviously, anything less than full–throated support for reparations means you're just as racist as Republicans.

Reparations Bill would never get through Congress, and even if it did, I have no idea how payments would be determined. Who would be getting the payments? Would they be based on a percentage of your lineage? How would these payments be funded? Has systemic racism only affected blacks in the USA? Would other minorities be eligible for reparations?