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[TheStruggler]

It is strange, as white Canadian, whenever I read anything about white folks or white people I just automatically assume this means like stereotypical white american. Its kind of weird I don't actually consider myself part of the white people group. If a black person came up and and said can I ask you a question as a white person I would respond actually I'm Canadian. As to the whole BLM thing 95% of the time it makes perfect sense, sure the racist opposition smear it to be something completely different. On rare occasions I have got the impression that the movement excludes other groups as supporters and I think that just gives the opposition what they need.

When looking at marches and BLM marches in particular from what i have seen on streams, news etc me being Canadian as well, it is a wide variety of backgrounds and simply just not Black people. While the slogan is BLM anyone can participate it seems and having more tolerant and common sense people of different backgrounds helps spread awareness which is needed.

Also as one fellow Canadian to another: Sorry in advance.

 

[rjinaz]

I'm white and I'm going to shit talk my own people all I want. White people have oppressed many other minorities and now we are dealing with people who shit on BLM etc. Your damn right im going to point out the morons, and give the people who actually have common sense praise.

Yep I'm White too. Most White people have an alarming lack of empathy and historical consideration for minorities. There is a big frakin problem there and it should be called out. Most White people I know can't stand BLM because they equate it to Black people causing trouble when they actually have it pretty good now. AKA racism is over.

If we stay quiet because it makes people uncomfortable NOTHING will change. I will call these people out. I will call them racist. Because they are.

 

[Lo_Fi]

So would BLM be less demonized if it was called Black Lives Matter Too from get go?

Potentially, but I think that's giving in. Why does the movement have to be from a white pov?

Kids don't tell their mom "I love you too" when their dad's not in the room. That doesn't make any sense. All that is required in that case to communicate "I love you" is "I love you". You don't need to append "too" or "more" onto it to make it inclusive or exclusive. The phrase stands on it's own.

 

[rjinaz]

Potentially, but I think that's giving in. Why does the movement have to be from a white pov?

Kids don't tell their mom "I love you too" when their dad's not in the room. That doesn't make any sense. All that is required in that case to communicate "I love you" is "I love you". You don't need to append "too" or "more" onto it to make it inclusive or exclusive. The phrase stands on it's own.

Well said.

 

[LegendofLex]

It's the same reason why people lose their minds if you say that America isn't a Christian nation.

Straight white Christian males expect the world to belong to and revolve around them.

 

[Crimson_Echidna]

So would BLM be less demonized if it was called Black Lives Matter Too from get go?

But your making it a race issue! All Lives Matter Too!

Potentially, but I think that's giving in. Why does the movement have to be from a white pov?

Kids don't tell their mom "I love you too" when their dad's not in the room. That doesn't make any sense. All that is required in that case to communicate "I love you" is "I love you". You don't need to append "too" or "more" onto it to make it inclusive or exclusive. The phrase stands on it's own.

This too. It's essentially people saying "You have to protest in a way that doesn't make me feel offended." It's the reason why people were losing their shit over something as simple as Kaepernick taking a knee during the anthem. "Oh, so what you're really saying is I'm a racist for standing up!"

 

[Gotdatmoney]

I heard this before, what I just read there was "lets add a caveat with the word privilege allowing us to be racist without actually sounding racist cause we redefined the term"

The world does not share your interpretation of racism.

Are you gonna make a real fucking argument with sources and a point or are you just gonna say "naw" to everyone who posts something you don't like? Because you're actually not saying anything right now and it's annoying.

White privelege and white fragility are academic terms. So if you wanna disagree go get some reputable data and make a real point instead of crying about it. I'm sure you wont find anything though.

 

[TheStruggler]

Yep I'm White too. Most White people have an alarming lack of empathy and historical consideration for minorities. There is a big frakin problem there and it should be called out. Most White people I know can't stand BLM because they equate it to Black people causing trouble when they actually have it pretty good now. AKA racism is over.

If we stay quiet because it makes people uncomfortable NOTHING will change. I will call these people out. I will call them racist. Because they are.

the scary fact also like how you said it makes people "uncomfortable" it is almost as if it is embedded in white society that as soon as a minority group starts a group like BLM or want equal rights everyone loses their minds and think "well we can't have that now can we"

 

[EatinOlives]

I heard this before, what I just read there was "lets add a caveat with the word privilege allowing us to be racist without actually sounding racist cause we redefined the term"

The world does not share your interpretation of racism.

Oh jeez, we're getting into "reverse racism!!" bullshit now.

You know you're a LOT less neutral than you think you are, you know that right?

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

You know you're a LOT less neutral than you think you are, you know that right?

I wish everyone could be this self-aware. Everyone likes to think that whatever they think is right, because it's never been challenged.

 

[darscot]

When looking at marches and BLM marches in particular from what i have seen on streams, news etc me being Canadian as well, it is a wide variety of backgrounds and simply just not Black people. While the slogan is BLM anyone can participate it seems and having more tolerant and common sense people of different backgrounds helps spread awareness which is needed.

Also as one fellow Canadian to another: Sorry in advance.

Yeah 95% of the time actually I should say 99% that is exactly how I see it. I few times and probably here on GAF I have gotten the impression that BLM is for black people by Black people and that is not a good message. I can't remember the exact topic I just remember someone saying we don't care what white people think and we don't need their support. I thought that is the wrong message but that is the only case I can think off.

 

[TheStruggler]

It's the same reason why people lose their minds if you say that America isn't a Christian nation.

Straight white Christian males expect the world to belong to and revolve around them.

Not even kidding on CNN last night I was watching and they interviewed Christians, white Christians to be exact and they feel their rights as White Christians are being infringed on due to the fact of Muslim Immigrants and or refugees coming to the country...smdh

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

Because racists are stupid.

 

[Crimson_Echidna]

the scary fact also like how you said it makes people "uncomfortable" it is almost as if it is embedded in white society that as soon as a minority group starts a group like BLM or want equal rights everyone loses their minds and think "well we can't have that now can we"

The biggest lie that the nation has kept trying to tell themselves is that "Racism is over." People were claiming it after Obama got elected. People claimed it when Spike Lee made Do the Right Thing and he got accused of trying to racebait Black People. People claimed it in the 60's during the Civil Rights Protest. They claimed it during the fucking Reconstruction Era.

It's an endless cycle.

 

[Jeffolation]

It is strange, as white Canadian, whenever I read anything about white folks or white people I just automatically assume this means like stereotypical white american. Its kind of weird I don't actually consider myself part of the white people group.

We most assuredly are members of the whole white people thing and we're certainly not exempt from holding prejudiced and bigoted views about the BLM movement.

 

[Htown]

Oh man the hypocrisy of discriminating on an entire group of people solely based on race. As a brown man I find you racism disgusting. There is so many "white people" related comments in here I can't fucking believe it.

OP, the thread speaks for itself, want to back black lives matter? Need to look down on white people.

As a black man, I have to say, you know that they don't give a fuck about you, right? There's really no such thing as "one of the good ones." When it comes down to it, to the racists and diet racists of white America, you're still just "one of them."

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Yeah 95% of the time actually I should say 99% that is exactly how I see it. I few times and probably here on GAF I have gotten the impression that BLM is for black people by Black people and that is not a good message. I can't remember the exact topic I just remember someone saying we don't care what white people think and we don't need their support. I thought that is the wrong message but that is the only case I can think off.

This editorial describes the thought process of those moments you probably saw: https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...-stop-talking-about-racism-with-white-people/

 

[darscot]

We most assuredly are members of the whole white people thing and we're certainly not exempt from holding prejudiced and bigoted views about the BLM movement.

I most assuredly am not part of the ass backwards racist white group. I obviously don't speak for all Canadians but I do believe the majority of us would not feel we are part of that group.

 

[Palette Swap]

I'm white bro.

I figured from the grammar

Am I missing something?

 

[Gordon Shumway]

So, my question is why?

Why is the idea that black people's lives actually hold some value, such a "radical" idea?

Because slavery has been "over" for some time now in these United States. I submit to you that if we were still, in fact, property, our lives WOULD matter. Someone spent good money on us. If some dumb peckerwood just popped us in the middle of the street, you best believe our life would matter..someone's got to pay for master's losses.

But alas, we're free men. Free to chastise. Free to ignore. Free to accuse. Free to kill. Tis a beautiful thing..

 

[SirClinksAlot]

It is strange, as white Canadian, whenever I read anything about white folks or white people I just automatically assume this means like stereotypical white american. Its kind of weird I don't actually consider myself part of the white people group. If a black person came up and and said can I ask you a question as a white person I would respond actually I'm Canadian. As to the whole BLM thing 95% of the time it makes perfect sense, sure the racist opposition smear it to be something completely different. On rare occasions I have got the impression that the movement excludes other groups as supporters and I think that just gives the opposition what they need.

It's kinda weird you think of yourself that way. White Canadians are just as racist as white Americans.

 

[darscot]

It's kinda weird you think of yourself that way. White Canadians are just as racist as white Americans.

Ha ha, you're going to need to show receipts on that one. Yes racism exist but it is no where near on the same level south of the border.

 

[TheStruggler]

Ha ha, you're going to need to show receipts on that one. Yes racism exist but it is no where near on the same level south of the border.

I wouldnt say at the same level but it is pretty freaking close involving the First Nations people of Canada. We oppressed them, took away their culture their land and made them the "white way" because back then that was the "right way". Now there is still a stigma towards Aboriginal peoples as being: dead beats, welfare collectors, drunks, drug addicts etc. Also we have a severe problem of murdered and missing Indigenous people as well. The police may not shoot them on the spot but there is an issue there as well. Canada needs to take a good look in the mirror and say we can do better as well.

 

[darscot]

I wouldnt say at the same level but it is pretty freaking close involving the First Nations people of Canada. We oppressed them, took away their culture their land and made them the "white way" because back then that was the "right way". Now there is still a stigma towards Aboriginal peoples as being: dead beats, welfare collectors, drunks, drug addicts etc. Also we have a severe problem of murdered and missing Indigenous people as well. The police may not shoot them on the spot but there is an issue there as well. Canada needs to take a good look in the mirror and say we can do better as well.

We have a dark history with our first nations no argument there. I was not considering that angle of the current topic.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Ha ha, you're going to need to show receipts on that one. Yes racism exist but it is no where near on the same level south of the border.

It aint as bad as America but your mentality in this thread is not real life. Look at the BLM protest during pride for some of that Canadian racism. Look at the response to the death of Colton Boushie. Look at the extremely disproportional incarnceration rates of Aboriginal and Black members of society.

Canada is a great place to live, but the populace of this country is literally no more shielded from bias towards minorities than the US. The difference is we have better checks and balances so it doesn't manifest itself so violently and lesser so socially.

 

[The Kree]

Ha ha, you're going to need to show receipts on that one. Yes racism exist but it is no where near on the same level south of the border.

Black hate is universal. You just don't see it as much in a place like Canada because you're more racially homogeneous.

 

[darscot]

Black hate is universal. You just don't see it as much in a place like Canada because you're more racially homogeneous.

Get the fuck out with this nonsense, I know we call it the great white north but that is not a reference to race. Canada is very multicultural, the major cities are very very mixed and even in rural canada there is alway a sprinkling of other ethnic groups.

 

[Jeffolation]

I most assuredly am not part of the ass backwards racist white group. I obviously don't speak for all Canadians but I do believe the majority of us would not feel we are part of that group.

Just because there's doesn't seem to be as much overt racism north of the 42nd parallel doesn't mean these issues don't exist. I've heard plenty of ignorant comments from my neck of the woods regarding BLM, police brutality, Syrian refugees etc. A close friend of mine is black and the amount of ignorant shit she's had to put up with in this country is mind boggling. We aren't a post racial society and we certainly qualify to be part of discussions such as this. I am speaking in generalities, I wasn't insinuating that you yourself was a racist or held racist beliefs. But part of the problem I have with some white liberal Canadians is many of us (been guilty of this myself in the past for sure) think by virtue of being Canadian we're somehow above the American race conversation.

 

[The Kree]

Get the fuck out with this nonsense, I know we call it the great white north but that is not a reference to race. Canada is very multicultural, the major cities are very very mixed and even in rural canada there is alway a sprinkling of other ethnic groups.

The demographic breakdowns say otherwise.

 

[darscot]

The demographic breakdowns say otherwise.

You suck at math

 

[daviyoung]

making it "black lives matter too" automatically, and conveniently, puts it inside a conversation where "all lives matter" was mentioned as a retort

the square peg is being whittled down to fit into a round hole, which is the problem in the first place

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Get the fuck out with this nonsense, I know we call it the great white north but that is not a reference to race. Canada is very multicultural, the major cities are very very mixed and even in rural canada there is alway a sprinkling of other ethnic groups.

75% of the country is white. The biggest areas where minorities settle are GTA, Vancouver and Montreal. Rural Canada is not mixed at all. I aint gonna comment on black hate but your putting a very idealized context of our countries population demographics.

We are not racially homogeneous as say Japan. But we aren't like 50/50 either.

 

[The Kree]

You suck at math

I don't think I do.

 

[darscot]

Just because there's doesn't seem to be as much overt racism north of the 42nd parallel doesn't mean these issues don't exist. I've heard plenty of ignorant comments from my neck of the woods regarding BLM, police brutality, Syrian refugees etc. A close friend of mine is black and the amount of ignorant shit she's had to put up with in this country is mind boggling. We aren't a post racial society and we certainly qualify to be part of discussions such as this. I am speaking in generalities, I wasn't insinuating that you yourself was a racist or held racist beliefs. But part of the problem I have with some white liberal Canadians is many of us (been guilty of this myself in the past for sure) think by virtue of being Canadian we're somehow above the American race conversation.

I don't think we are above the conversation, I do think it is fair to say we are far more tolerant. And it's laughable to compare the two countries as being the same on the topic of racism. Culturally we are very different, I think most Canadians are completely open to the conversation, I fully admit it, it is nowhere near the same priority. I think most of us feel we are heading in the right direction and content to just continue. We tend to focus on the positive and the dark issues of racism are not seen as the norm and probable do not get the attention they deserve.

 

[SturokBGD]

Get the fuck out with this nonsense, I know we call it the great white north but that is not a reference to race. Canada is very multicultural, the major cities are very very mixed and even in rural canada there is alway a sprinkling of other ethnic groups.

Do you spend all your time in downtown Toronto or something? Canada as a whole is not even close to being multicultural.

With that being said as an immigrant myself sitting on the GO train every day surrounded by every race, colour and creed all living and working in apparent harmony is pretty great. So yeah, I like to think we're heading in the right direction at least.

 

[darscot]

75% of the country is white. The biggest areas where minorities settle are GTA, Vancouver and Montreal. Rural Canada is not mixed at all. I aint gonna comment on black hate but your putting a very idealized context of our countries population demographics.

We are not racially homogeneous as say Japan. But we aren't like 50/50 either.

Yes in very small quiet towns you may not see visible minorities on a daily basis, basically everywhere else you do, we are in no way homogenous as a white nation. One out of every 4 people is a minority and that doesn't count as mixed.
Lets let this topic get back on topic about BLM and its importance.

 

[aeolist]

acknowledging that black lives matter would require coming to grips with the understanding that society has a moral obligation to make up a lot to minorities

this would have a cost

modern western society was built by fucking the rest of the world and america specifically was literally fueled by slave labor and white supremacy, that's not being corrected easily

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Yes in very small quiet towns you may not see visible minorities on a daily basis, basically everywhere else you do, we are in no way homogenous as a white nation.

Canada is 33 million people, if you take the GTA, Vancouver, Montreal and Calgary you reach maybe 11 million people. The countries visible minority population is 25%. The majority of people in this country do not live in the city but the majority of minorities do.

You have this shit fuckimg backwards man. Seeomg visible minorities and having a large minority population are not the same. America is less white than Canada. But neither of these countries are as homogenous as a bulk of European countries for example.

And youbsteered the discussion to Canada and BLM exists here too so by all means I dont think we are off topic.

 

[darscot]

Canada is 33 million people, if you take the GTA, Vancouver, Montreal and Calgary you reach maybe 11 million people. The countries visible minority population is 25%. The majority of people in this country do not live in the city but the majority of minorities do.

You have this shit fuckimg backwards man. Seeomg visible minorities and having a large minority population are not the same. America is less white than Canada. But neither of these countries are as homogenous as a bulk of European countries for example.

My point was saying that you dont see racism in Canada only because there is not enough minorities around to see it, is laughable. You don't see it because there is less of it and its not tolerated. It is not because we are all white and cant find anyone to hate.

I'm going to step out of this now and let it get back to BLM

 

[Cyan]

To me "Black Lives Matter" is a reasonable statement. It's like the most non-threatening rallying cry in history.

However the response to this phrase has been so violent and ugly.

Every since the inception of the Black Lives Matter campaign, there's been this large scale coordinated effort to demonize and suppress this non-violent movement.

So, my question is why?

Why is the idea that black people's lives actually hold some value, such a "radical" idea?

Why is it a dangerous idea?

Whose lives does it negatively effect if we treat a group of people...like people?

Honestly it infuriates me that it's 2016 and we're STILL- WE'RE FUCKING STILL debating whether or not black people deserve to die.

Fuck

I think there's a bit of a disconnect between what people who have a problem with BLM think they're disagreeing with, and what it sounds like you think they disagree with.

I think that, outright white supremacists aside, most of the people who say "All Lives Matter" or even "Blue Lives Matter" would consciously agree with concepts like "it is just as sad when a black person is killed as when a white person is killed" or "deliberately taking a life is equally bad regardless of the race of that person," and I think if you set up a philosophical thought problem about it they would agree that black and white lives have equal moral weights. That is, they would agree with all the underlying things that you would expect anyone who believes that black lives matter to agree with.

So why don't they agree with a phrase that neatly encompasses those ideas under a simple banner? Mostly it's that the phrase connotes a whole bunch of additional ideas, which they have political disagreements with. Imagine a conversation where someone says "hey, black lives matter." And the other person says "yes, I agree, we do need to do something about police violence against black people." Well hang on, where did that come from? It came from the political movement that goes along with the slogan. "Occupy Wall Street" doesn't just mean people going and sitting around on Wall Street, it includes a bunch of ideas about what's wrong with the world we live in and how to fix it. Ditto BLM.

Now, the reasons why people disagree with the political movement will probably include stuff like white fragility or underlying racism or outright denial of major problems in society to do with systemic racism, so criticism isn't unwarranted. But I don't think it should be confusing why conservatives might not be willing to say "black lives matter." It's not that they disagree with that statement, it's that they disagree with the political ideas that are tied to it. (Similarly, if someone asked me to say "all lives matter," I'd be uncomfortable with the politics of it even though I obviously agree with the surface-level statement.)

 

[Gotdatmoney]

My point was saying that you dont see racism in Canada only because there is not enough minorities around to see it, is laughable. You don't see it because there is less of it and its not tolerated. It is not because we are all white and cant find anyone to hate.

I'm going to step out of this now and let it get back to BLM

Quite literally nothing in his post was incorrect (well I dunno about "black hate" as a concept)

Canada is more racially homogeneous than America? True.
Canada has a smaller black population than America? Also true.

BLM as a concept comes up less in Canada because we have less minorities and less black people. I actully dunno why you are being so defensive.

I think its obvious Canada is above America in race relations. I dont however think that Canada is all "woo BLM rocks" more than we just have a snaller populattion. How hard did Mayor Tory and officer Sanders try to keep carding in place for example? Something that minority rights groups fought against for the longest time.

 

[darscot]

Quite literally nothing in his post was incorrect (well I dunno about "black hate" as a concept)

Canada is more racially homogeneous than America? True.
Canada has a smaller black population than America? Also true.

BLM as a concept comes up less in Canada because we have less minorities and less black people. I actully dunno why you are being so defensive.

I think its obvious Canada is above America in race relations. I dont however think that Canada is all "woo BLM rocks" more than we just have a snaller populattion. How hard did Mayor Tory and officer Sanders try to keep carding in place for example? Something that minority rights groups fought against for the longest time.

I'm not defensive, I think its just relativity. Yes carding was wrong and it was racist, but it is on a different level. The police stopping and recording your name on a piece of paper that is completely inadmissible in a court is wrong and they did it to far more too minorities than they should of. Its just not exactly something i feel we need a civil rights movement over. I guess if I was in the US I would be attending ever BLM rally because they need my support, im 43 family man. In Canada I kind of feel the young people and college folks have it covered to keep the topic relevant and progressing so I don't need to get involved. I would vocally support them in any conversation that came up.

The only comment I am disputing was this one

"Black hate is universal. You just don't see it as much in a place like Canada because you're more racially homogeneous."

 

[Abinash117]

To me "Black Lives Matter" is a reasonable statement. It's like the most non-threatening rallying cry in history.

However the response to this phrase has been so violent and ugly.

Every since the inception of the Black Lives Matter campaign, there's been this large scale coordinated effort to demonize and suppress this non-violent movement.

So, my question is why?

Why is the idea that black people's lives actually hold some value, such a "radical" idea?

Why is it a dangerous idea?

Whose lives does it negatively effect if we treat a group of people...like people?

Honestly it infuriates me that it's 2016 and we're STILL- WE'RE FUCKING STILL debating whether or not black people deserve to die.

Fuck

Because many people have a misunderstanding from BLM to begin with. BLM is raising an issue that many white people are still uncomfortable with; that certain groups of people are not being treated fairly and the ones that are doing unfairly things are police; a group of people that have respect. Many do not want to think that they have been wrong and some are pushing back at the idea.

Others do not want AAs to get much more rights than themselves already think they should get. Basically they don't like uppity people or people challenging their positions of power in society.

 

[Fudgepuppy]

The non-violent part is the tricky one.

There's been a lot of non-violent protests, and some that turned violent after instigation.

The "All lives matter crowd" don't read the headlines that don't bleed.

 

[D i Z]

This thread is a whole lot of semantic debate around what is essential the fear of black people organizing and taking a stand. It really is that simple. Not a whole lot to do with the perceived exclusion of other races in the statement "Black Lives Matter". It's not dangerous because there is an active call to harm police either. The police state is the front line of protection that white America has always relied on to keep the negro within boundaries and without resources.
BLM is dangerous because every protest and demonstration is a reality check on what real dividing lines that can't be crossed actually look like. It's black and other people holding their ground, and not being driven back. It's a explicit announcement that when you kill one of us, a thousand are going to show up, and if we wanted to be a problem, we really could. People fear BLM because they have never really had to deal with anger focused at their lifestyles and their complicit attitudes. They've never had to consider repercussions for the racial injustices within the American population.
The 60's and its movements are old film clips and boring lectures easily ignored. That history is not nearly intrusive enough to leave a lasting impact on a population that has no real living concept of community or history. The fantasy and revisionist history that people buy into just to feel better about their own bullshit is eroding. This is reality right around the corner.

 

[Slayven]

MLK was peaceful and they still put a bullet in him

 

[Mesoian]

Racists read it with an implicit: "more" at the end. When in actuality it's an implict "too."

Boom. Done.

 

[weekev]

Racists read it with an implicit: "more" at the end. When in actuality it's an implict "too."

Yeah, if I'm honest it's ignorant people too. Until I read more about it I thought it was Black Lives Matter more as well and felt that the movement was exclusionary. Then I did some research and realised that the whole point in the movement is that it's the opposite. The message is that black people are not being treated fairly. Rather than this movement being exclusionary they are highlighting that society is exclusionary towards Black People and that the entire community is marginalised and mistreated in society.

Police brutality towards Black people in America is a national embarrassment. Black Lives Matter helped me see that and I daresay it has helped thousands of not millions more to see the struggle facing marginalised minorities.

 

[creatchee]

The "All lives matter crowd" don't read the headlines that don't bleed.

To be fair, there's no headline to read unless there's blood. The news isn't in business to show shiny happy people holding hands - they know that death, sex, betrayal, politics, and unrest sell, and that's what they're going to give to us.

Human interest pieces end up in the back of your local section, or at minute 58 after the weather for a nice 30 seconds before they tell you to tune in again at 11 and 7 for your next dose of the evils this world has wrought.

 

[Wanda/Wander]

MLK was peaceful and they still put a bullet in him

I feel like Black Lives Matter purposefully doesn't have a figure head at the top for this very reason.