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Why is climbing so boring in Uncharted 4, yet so fun in Zelda BOTW?
- Thread starter Chao
- Start date
psynergylover
Member
What exactly makes climbing so fun? I have not played Zelda but for all the games that had some type of platforming but all climbing was just press X/B/A to engage climb, use the d-pad or analog stick to grab a hold of the obvious footholds/handholds, the occasional X/B/A to jump across large gaps....then "You have reached your destination"
Does Zelda really do something all that different? (legit question)
Does Zelda really do something all that different? (legit question)
Link has a stamina bar, you could try reaching some mountain top but it is not guaranteed you will get there, besides almost always there is some kind of reward for reaching these spots, it's pretty fun.
They're both third-person action games with climbing, melee, and shooting mechanics. It's not like we're comparing FIFA to Fallout.
First post is really all there is to it. The rope swinging mechanic in Uncharted 4 was far more interesting and less automatic vs. climbing/traversal, and I wish they'd put a stronger focus on that instead. It can be argued that TR2013 did climbing/traversal better than Uncharted ever did.
Stamina adds tension, and you really only have yourself to blame if you don't plan well enough and slip and fall (and sometimes die). Climbing in BOTW almost always leads to some type of reward too, which makes the effort a lot of fun IMO.
-MD-
Member
Probably why I didn't care for that game.
Now THIS sounds fun. Like a Hyrule version of Just Cause 2.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Because the entire traversal in Uncharted games is just to separate between the different combat areas, they are designed to not bring down the pace of the game and to be just a distraction to space out the combat section. There's no skill involved, no though involved, you just press a direction and sometimes a button and drake will do all the hard work by himself. They are part of setpieces that are supossed to be played in one paretciular way with the minimal amount of possibility of the player failing.
Meanwhile in BOTW are a key part of the sense of exploration of the game. If you want to reach the top of that mountain, you can, but you have to earn it, because you are climbing a damn mountain, and it should be dangerous and hard. Using the stamina and the different speed depending of how steep is the climbing, you have to plan which path you should take and calculate if you have enough stamina to make it out, or even plan ahead and realize that there's a section you can you walk up, so you can regain energy.
The actual mechanics are simple, but they work incredibly well with the fact you can climb (almost) anything.
Meanwhile in BOTW are a key part of the sense of exploration of the game. If you want to reach the top of that mountain, you can, but you have to earn it, because you are climbing a damn mountain, and it should be dangerous and hard. Using the stamina and the different speed depending of how steep is the climbing, you have to plan which path you should take and calculate if you have enough stamina to make it out, or even plan ahead and realize that there's a section you can you walk up, so you can regain energy.
The actual mechanics are simple, but they work incredibly well with the fact you can climb (almost) anything.
Rodney McKay
Member
I like the climbing in Zelda as it allows me to skip 99% of the combat encounters in the game and you're usually rewarded when you get to the top of a mountain or plateau, but the climbing itself is too slow to be "fun" on its own IMO.
I've upgraded my stamina so I have a full ring around my main stamina circle and that has been enough to get me up anywhere without much trouble (just look for a nook you can stand on for a second to get back stamina, almost everything has them in the game). Sure if I got more stamina I could jump a bit more to get to climb faster, but that drains so much it's almost not worth it.
Even with full climbing gear, I'll often start watching TV or messing with my phone while holding up on the analog stick because the climbing is so slow.
If I had to compare it with other games, I'd say it's pretty close to Shadow of the Colossus, but not as exciting. And if I had to compare it with Uncharted: I'm bored by the climbing in Uncharted games because it's usually pretty automatic and just serves as a way to get to the next area. In Zelda I can choose to climb or not whenever I want and I can mess up if I don't manage my stamina well enough which gives it just enough sense of danger that it's satisfying when I get to the top of something.
I've upgraded my stamina so I have a full ring around my main stamina circle and that has been enough to get me up anywhere without much trouble (just look for a nook you can stand on for a second to get back stamina, almost everything has them in the game). Sure if I got more stamina I could jump a bit more to get to climb faster, but that drains so much it's almost not worth it.
Even with full climbing gear, I'll often start watching TV or messing with my phone while holding up on the analog stick because the climbing is so slow.
If I had to compare it with other games, I'd say it's pretty close to Shadow of the Colossus, but not as exciting. And if I had to compare it with Uncharted: I'm bored by the climbing in Uncharted games because it's usually pretty automatic and just serves as a way to get to the next area. In Zelda I can choose to climb or not whenever I want and I can mess up if I don't manage my stamina well enough which gives it just enough sense of danger that it's satisfying when I get to the top of something.
NHarmonic.
Member
Mario has brain dead running mechanics.
I think you are confusing epicness with mechanical complexity. Its true that (as far as I'm aware) you arent climbing on heaps of enemies in zelda. Thats not the point. The question is why is the act of climbing so interesting in zelda. Its the mechanical complexity and depth.
I'm quite sure if we were comparing the epic things you do while climbing, SOTC would win that handily.
Also, sidenote: SOTC does have amazing animation on wander when the colossus moves which is pretty much second to none.
It makes no sense. One is an open world that relies on exploration, another is a linear experience with great story telling. What do you think is going to happen in this thread besides the obvious? Why is a game that focuses on exploration so much fun than a game that doesn't? It's just silly. These threads comparing games just don't make any sense to me. I might as well open a thread, why is so and so combat's so boring in blah blah and yet so fun in blah?
LightofRohan
Member
Agreed, you push a stick and you go. There is no challenge to the running in the game, it's basically a cinematic you push a stick during.
Being reductive about a games design is so lame. I'd pay a LOT of money for some people to go sit in NaughtyDog and tell them how they do it wrong and how they know better. It'd be fantastic.
NullPointer
Member
Uncharted 4 also incorporates an exploration angle, both to find collectibles and stumble upon context-sensitive conversations.
Makes perfect sense to compare how both games approach their climbing, and that doesn't require an end result where we find one game's mechanics have to be 100% copied over to the other without consideration of each game's differing priorities. OP's question seems valid enough for discussion to me.
We do not appreciate posts that are too sensible, thank you very much.
- No "obvious foot/handholds", you can climb anything (pretty much)
- Full movement in any direction (not just up/down or sideways like in most games)
- Stamina meter; you have to keep track of your energy as you will fall if it runs out
- Risk/reward with being able to "dash" as you're climbing; quicker but drains the stamina meter fast (means it's very quick to climb minor obstacles)
- Using the dash just as your stamina meter is about to run out makes Link do kind of a "last ditch effort", reaching the top of a tower with this last effort is highly satisfying
- Rain makes it impossible to climb; a source of some frustration but also greatly adds to the urgency and sense of danger when climbing. You don't want to be stuck on a mountainside with no shelter as a storm rolls in.
Only on walls that are actually rained on. You can climb along walls with enough overhang that its dry inside. Its not like a global (you can't climb anything now)
Good summary. And yeah, I was surprised that if there is shelter, you can still climb, wasn't expecting that kind of detail. For example, you can climb the beacon towers in the rain; once you reach the top, you can actually see the central area that has cover, isn't getting drips of rain. Neat.
The risk reward of the jump dash is really nice. Being able to climb quickly when you know you can make it is very nice, reduces the tedium. It is also strategic, there is a beacon tower that is guarded by guardians, and being super low level I gave it a go today. Dashing up and over from platform to platform and hiding from line of sight before the shots fired, while climbing was the only way to make it, and it was quite exhilarating making it all the way up.
Climbing you always are looking around for temples, and other things, or just the view, it's a very rewarding experience. I am surprised how much variation and things there are actually to see when climbing a seemingly barren mountain. They really filled the world!
Actually it's any wet surface.
You'll similarly fail to climb if water is splashing on the wall (like close to waterfalls and such)
NHarmonic.
Member
Pretty much. This is why people get salty with Zelda and Nintendo. The amount of entitlement of it's fans is amusing and such a bother.
I really abhor this second coming of jesus with BOTW.
Maybe i'll make a thread about The Last of Us and Mario, so we can compare story and character development.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Or instead, perhaps consider how it's relatively reasonable to compare the climbing mechanics and application of two third-person action games and discuss why someone could like one and dislike the other rather than make a disingenuous console warrior butthurt fanboy thread that'll get you juniored or banned
It makes every sense, UC4 could have had Zelda's climbing mechanics, a stamina bar and a few path options to pick from, and still have otherwise been entirely the same game.
Soul of the Beast
Member
Fun is a very subjective term to use here, simply take a good look at the thread and you'll see very different opinions on ''what's fun about climbing for me''.
Planning your route and watching out for your stamina might seem strategic and challenging to some people, but to others it can be annoying and frustrating.
Climbing up and down freely like Spiderman without having to worry about anything at all might seem fun to some people, but to others it can feel scripted, boring and joyless.
These two are completely different kind of games, in BoTW climbing is a gameplay mechanic for you to explore and traverse.
While in UC4 (or any other Uncharted game) climbing is merely a way to push the game forward, it's just like those slow walk sections of the game, it's not supposed to be a fun mechanic that makes you want to reply the game over and over just for it. And that's perfectly fine. The story and cinematic should be the focus here.
In the end of the day if I have to choose one, I would say that I much prefer BoTW style of climbing to Assassin's Creed/Infamous/Uncharted/Tomb Raider style of climbing. Simply because it feels engaging and actually challenging.
Remember those ''oh no no no!'' and ''aww shit shit shit!'' moments from Nathan Drake in Uncharted 4?
In here they are actually happening in real time and not scripted. You actually feel like you can fall to your death at any moment, you actually experienced that ''oh crap this is not working out as well as I hoped...what do I do now?'' moment.
In Breath of the Wild you have NO IDEA what will happen next, it's completely unexpected. An electric keese (flying bat that can electrify you) might fly out of nowhere all of a sudden and makes you go ''Nooooooooooooo stay away you little shit'' and start panicking.
For me moments like this are just magical, this is exactly what seperates video games to other mediums.
You feel like a ture adventurer who nearly lost his goddamn life getting to the top of a crag, just to see what's there.
This is how cliff climbing should feel like in games: Dangerous.
For me personally, that's exactly what makes climbing fun and exciting.
(Sorry If there's any spelling/grammar mistake in my post, I am from Asia and I am still working on my English. Feel free to point out my mistakes and help me improve
)
Planning your route and watching out for your stamina might seem strategic and challenging to some people, but to others it can be annoying and frustrating.
Climbing up and down freely like Spiderman without having to worry about anything at all might seem fun to some people, but to others it can feel scripted, boring and joyless.
These two are completely different kind of games, in BoTW climbing is a gameplay mechanic for you to explore and traverse.
While in UC4 (or any other Uncharted game) climbing is merely a way to push the game forward, it's just like those slow walk sections of the game, it's not supposed to be a fun mechanic that makes you want to reply the game over and over just for it. And that's perfectly fine. The story and cinematic should be the focus here.
In the end of the day if I have to choose one, I would say that I much prefer BoTW style of climbing to Assassin's Creed/Infamous/Uncharted/Tomb Raider style of climbing. Simply because it feels engaging and actually challenging.
Remember those ''oh no no no!'' and ''aww shit shit shit!'' moments from Nathan Drake in Uncharted 4?
In here they are actually happening in real time and not scripted. You actually feel like you can fall to your death at any moment, you actually experienced that ''oh crap this is not working out as well as I hoped...what do I do now?'' moment.
In Breath of the Wild you have NO IDEA what will happen next, it's completely unexpected. An electric keese (flying bat that can electrify you) might fly out of nowhere all of a sudden and makes you go ''Nooooooooooooo stay away you little shit'' and start panicking.
For me moments like this are just magical, this is exactly what seperates video games to other mediums.
You feel like a ture adventurer who nearly lost his goddamn life getting to the top of a crag, just to see what's there.
This is how cliff climbing should feel like in games: Dangerous.
For me personally, that's exactly what makes climbing fun and exciting.
(Sorry If there's any spelling/grammar mistake in my post, I am from Asia and I am still working on my English. Feel free to point out my mistakes and help me improve
)slackern1nja
Banned
Why is combat so boring in Zelda BOTW, yet so fun in Uncharted 4?
Doctor_Thomas
Member
Let's stop comparing Zelda to every highly acclaimed game in the past few years, k?
Thanks.
Thanks.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Show or tell me anything more captivating than things like this then:
This is not even a set piece either.
Neither of these gifs have climbing in them—what' are we doing here exactly.
You should add this to the site ToS. Let us know when you do though
dano1
A Sheep
Agreed. Slow and boring
Soul of the Beast
Member
Neither of these gifs have climbing in themwhat' are we doing here exactly.
You should add this to the site ToS. Let us know when you do though
Seems like people have taken it to a level where this isn't just about ''Climbing in Zelda vs Climbing in UC4'' anymore, but instead it's about ''fun in Zelda vs fun in UC4'' in general.
(According to some, this is a console war too.)
Which is really dumb if you ask me.
Really? 2 third person action games that have a completely different context to their mechanics centered around story and gameplay elements. And he's not being butthurt, he's stating a fact many people agree with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-SHRlVaQ-A
One can say this game's climbing mechanics are far better than all others. But is it? It's all subjective.
In Uncharted climbing is a mandatory scripted sequence to reach a sure next objective. In Zelda climbing is a crafted but non-scripted opportunity, very often optional, to discover something that may be awesome or irrelevant. Night and day game design for me.
It also helps that in Zelda climbing is mostly free of those 'cinematic' animations that get old quite fast in Uncharted
It also helps that in Zelda climbing is mostly free of those 'cinematic' animations that get old quite fast in Uncharted
Stop discussing and comparing BOTW's performance! Why do you even do this??? It makes no sense! I don't understand! It's not the point of the game!
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
I'm convinced they sit back and have a good laugh for awhile before doing so
Yes, keep telling everyone that Zelda fans are horrible for comparing all games to the latest Zelda while continue having discussions about how all games should be like Bloodborne or Dark Souls.
hairygreenpeas
Neo Member
Man, when I finally get BOTW next month, I wonder if I'll ever get the urge to compare it to other games as well lol. I have such incredibly high expectations for it now, reading the reviews and very... interesting threads like these, it better blow me away. I already started watching some gameplay here and there to get my hype going. 
The climbing better be fun, guys, or I will be heavily disappointed!
The climbing better be fun, guys, or I will be heavily disappointed!I like climbing stuff and really like the climbing animations in Uncharted 4, Horizon, and the (later) AC games. Don't judge!
This is different, Zelda fans have made this forum "hostile" the last couple of months. Every thread that was made about Horizon has been destroyed and offrailed beacuse fans keeps throwing in Zelda ever page. I have just started playing Zelda and i think it is great but i don't see the reason why fans have to trash other games to praise Breath of the Wild. Why can't people enjoy the blooody game. So seriously what is the point of making this thread other then make this forum even more hostile.
ArkkAngel007
Member
Those Modbot posts take time and love to develop.
And no, the climbing isn't that complex, as I see that being mentioned. Ledges save stamina. Steeper=more stamina. Rain=Can't grip well. It's pretty simple, and doesn't need to be overblown as into some sort of revolutionany concept just because most games are as shallow as a stain in that area. What it does do is make the world that much more open and immersed, aside from the stamina wheel.
Same goes for weapon durability. It's not revolutionary. Dead Rising did the same thing, and I'm sure others have as well. Zelda just makes it far more frequent with how fragile much of it is and that a good number are generally useful.
It'll take another few stamina upgrades and tackling the weather issue before the climbing settles into that sweet spot where it's more of a tool for me to use than an annoyance.
Soul of the Beast
Member
I really don't get this ''liking Zelda makes you a Nintendo fan'' mentality.
A lot of people who fell in love with Breath of the Wild are not Nintendo fans at all.
Most of my buddies are long time PlayStation players (also long time PSP Monster Hunter fans & Soulsborne fans), and we all fell in love with BoTW's art style and game design. It just looks fun, challenging and unique to us.
I have never played any Zelda game ever, my first Nintendo console is a Wii and technially it's not even mine (and I also hated it).
I didn't love Breath of the Wild because I am a Zelda fan or Nintendo fan, I love BoTW because it's a well designed piece of work.
That being said though, I think directly comparing UC4 climbing to BoTW climbing is very stupid, afterall, these are completely two different kind of games.